[LordCanti]

Am I forgetting stuff or is there stuff in the show that either didn't happen in the book or is way different? Anyone have a quick list of what's different? This latest episode just confused the shit out of me.

Which part was confusing? Plenty of stuff is changed from the book, but I don't know if there is a list.

[Zabka]

That was excellent but the spot they ended it at...that's a crazy spot to end on. The whole episode was bleak and cruel and fantastic.

The changes from the book have all made sense so far.

[Magnus]

The Baratheon's are the lords of Storm's End (and the surrounding territories) if memory serves. It's right near Dorne/King's Landing somewhere, and very influential before the rebellion. I'm not sure about the other answer.

The Kingdoms are Winterfell, Highgarden, Casterly Rock, The Eyrie, Dorne, Storm's End and Riverrun. The Baratheons are from Storm's End.

Perfect, thanks guys. Clash is hazier to me than it should be for a book I only read last summer. I definitely didn't attribute enough importance to Storm's End, instead thinking it was just a minor locale where Edric was holed up by Robert, and where shadow baby 2 happened.

I think my confusion might arise from the lack of a comprehensive Baratheons house tree in the book appendices compared to the Starks, Lannisters, etc.

Edit-never mind, the first book lists it all. It's been a year, I'm forgetful.

I also have no idea why Riverrun's name escaped me temporarily, lol.

[Vyer]

Lot of good shit in this episode. The only thing I liked about the Joffery scene is it shows Jim fighting back a little against Tyrion, something we haven't seen much of. Which is odd if you consider what a hateful prick he is.

Harrenhal, Tyrion/Lancel, Stannis/Renly...man, so much was so good. And damn they didn't hold back with Melissandre.

[Dany M]

The night is dark full of terrors. I get chills now when Mellisandre says it.

[GT Vespene]

Am I forgetting stuff or is there stuff in the show that either didn't happen in the book or is way different? Anyone have a quick list of what's different? This latest episode just confused the shit out of me.

The only thing that stood out for me was Jeyne's introduction. Also, Mel uses the shadow baby twice. In the show they nerfed the cooldown to once per season.

[Arment]

The Kingdoms are Winterfell, Highgarden, Casterly Rock, The Eyrie, Dorne, Storm's End and Riverrun. The Baratheons are from Storm's End.

Riverrun isn't a Kingdom. The Iron Islands are.

[jett]

That was excellent but the spot they ended it at...that's a crazy spot to end on. The whole episode was bleak and cruel and fantastic. The changes from the book have all made sense so far.

The scene with Dany is completely made up. I personally found it terrible and worse than the one with Joffrey.

[Magnus]

Riverrun isn't a Kingdom. The Iron Islands are.

That makes more sense. Properly contexualizes Balon's rebellion as a rebellion.

[SerArthurDayne]

Jaqen mentioned the red god. Is this the show condensing the pantheon, or does he actually say that at this point in Clash?

edit: Looked into my own question. Apparently he does. It is unclear if he meant that the fire would have killed him- thus the red god, or whether he is a worshiper of the red god Series in his current disguise, or that he was the most apt "face" of the faceless god to mention in the situation

Riverrun isn't a Kingdom. The Iron Islands are.

The Riverlands actually were part of the Stormlands at one point, then they became holdings of the Iron Islands, and then they were taken over by the Tullys after Harrenhall burned during the Conquest. I believe the Tullys and the Tyrells are the only familes that weren't kings pre Conquest, correct?

[jett]

Riverrun isn't a Kingdom. The Iron Islands are.

Huh you're right, I got confused since the Riverrun lord is liege lord to the rest of the other lords of the riverlands.

edit:

The Seven Kingdoms c. 700-1 BAL: By this time, the numerous small kingdoms of Westeros have consolidated into several powerful nations. When the Stormlands successfully invades and conquers the Riverlands, this reduces the number of nations to seven: the Kingdom of the North, the Kingdom of the Vale, the Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers, the Kingdom of the Rock, the Kingdom of the Reach, the Storm Kingdom and the Kingdom of Dorne. The Iron Islands conquers the territory of the Riverlands from the Stormlands. The ironborn king, Harren Hoare, also called Harren the Black, demonstrates his wealth and power by building a castle far vaster and more formidable than any other in all of Westeros, Harrenhal, a fortress almost completely impregnable to ground attack.

The Riverlands were its own kingdom at some point, at least. :P

[suzu]

The Kingdoms are Winterfell, Highgarden, Casterly Rock, The Eyrie, Dorne, Storm's End and Riverrun. The Baratheons are from Storm's End.

I also have no idea why Riverrun's name escaped me temporarily, lol.

The Riverlands (Tully) weren't one of the original Seven. Well, actually they were under the rule of the Iron Islands. They later became their own kingdom.

edit: oops got answered already. :)

[Laekon]

I don't remeber him mentioning the Red God.

BOOK SPOILER: Also since they are using the shadow baby to kill Renly I don't think they will touch upon the bastard in Storm's End.

[LordCanti]

The scene with Dany is completely made up. I personally found it terrible and worse than the one with Joffrey.

I had a vague memory of Dany just kind of rolling on into Qarth unchallenged, but I couldn't remember exactly. [ACOK/maybe AFFC]maybe they're combining this city and the one that actually doesn't permit her to come inside? I forget the name.

[SerArthurDayne]

Riverlands were never a kingdom. They were independent from the Iron Islands only after the Conquest, and by then they were just a part of the kingdom.

edit: I take it back as well, the Greyjoys weren't kings pre-conquest either, although they have a unique selection process compared to the other great houses, so they might have some kingly blood in them.

[Tashi]

Which part was confusing? Plenty of stuff is changed from the book, but I don't know if there is a list.

The scene in the show where Joffrey makes that prostitute beat the other.
Tywin showing up at Harrenhal.
The rat torture.
Little Finger at Renly's camp and talking to Cat.
And then Melisendre giving birth to the shadow baby.The whole scene with Davos taking her in the boat reminded me of the 2nd time she uses the shadow in Clash. The first time when it actually kills Renly we don't see the birthing right? We just see the shadow killing Renly.

The only thing that stood out for me was Jeyne's introduction. Also, Mel uses the shadow baby twice. In the show they nerfed the cooldown to once per season.

Who's Jeyne?

It could just be my bad memory lol

[jett]

I had a vague memory of Dany just kind of rolling on into Qarth unchallenged, but I couldn't remember exactly. [ACOK]maybe they're combining this city and the one that actually doesn't permit her to come inside? I forget the name.

She's pretty much welcomed with open arms, I just checked. They better not do what's in your spoiler though.

[Tokubetsu]

Man, I love Renly's BF's armor.

[Tashi]

She's pretty much welcomed with open arms, I just checked. They better not do what's in your spoiler though.

That also confused me when I saw how it was in the show.

[scosher]

Riverrun isn't a Kingdom. The Iron Islands are.

I just did a quick google to clarify this, and leave it to the asoiaf forum-goer's to know the history of Westeros probably better than they do actual world history:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...-and-westeros/

Apparently, Iron Islands were one of the seven kingdoms, and the Greyjoys used to rule over both the Iron Islands and the Riverlands. But when the Targaryens conquered them all, the Greyjoys were the only major house to lose territory and relinquished rule over the riverlands. I'm guessing that's when the Tully's, Catelyn's family, took over.

I don't remember reading any of this in the book -- probably in some side story. But it does explain why the Greyjoys have generations of bitterness and resentment, and the Tullys are eager to gain better position amongst the other houses by marrying into them.

[suzu]

Who's Jeyne? It could just be my bad memory lol

(CoK/SoS? Character) Jeyne Westerling. The girl Robb goes gaga for.

[SerArthurDayne]

I just did a quick google to clarify this, and leave it to the asoiaf forum-goer's to know the history of Westeros probably better than they do actual world history: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...-and-westeros/ Apparently, Iron Islands were one of the seven kingdoms, and the Greyjoys used to rule over both the Iron Islands and the Riverlands. But when the Targaryens conquered them all, the Greyjoys were the only major house to lose territory and relinquished rule over the riverlands. I'm guessing that's when the Tully's, Catelyn's family, took over. I don't remember reading any of this in the book -- probably in some side story. But it does explain why the Greyjoys have generations of bitterness and resentment, and the Tullys are eager to gain better position amongst the other houses by marrying into them.

Close, but not exact. Greyjoys took over after the previous king was killed. The previous king was killed in Harrenhall, the melted castle we saw in tonight's episode.

Tyrells also have an inferiority complex because they are technically just Stewards, but that is really meaningless for all but vanity purposes. As is the Riverlands history, they have some of the most fertile lands, and are a pretty rich area.

[Pollux]

The night is dark full of terrors. I get chills now when Mellisandre says it.

ACOK you should. avatar quote

[Cornballer]

Content Roundup



Reviews:
- Sepinwall
- Onion Knight A|V Club
- EW.com
- WiC.net
- Westeros.org
- memles
- IndieWire
- Maureen Ryan
- otakuASSEMBLE

HBO videos:
- Preview for next week's episode "The Ghost of Harrenhal" (youtube copy, please spoiler tag any discussion)
- HBO's Inside the Episode feature for "Garden of Bones"

[jett]

That also confused me when I saw how it was in the show.

It was a pointless change. It boiled down to "I have dragons but you can't see them NYAH NYAH NYAH". And that message worked just as well to the Qarthians as it did to the audience. Also "I'm being a super bitch and endangering the survival of my people for no reason at all"

[Pollux]

That makes more sense. Properly contexualizes Balon's rebellion as a rebellion.

Kingdom of the North - Starks (Direwolf)
Kingdom of the Vale - Arryn (Eagle)
Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers - Greyjoys (Kraken) (The Greyjoys ruled the Riverlands, where the Tullys are from aka the Fish on the map, and where Cat grew up)
Kingdom of the Rock - Lannisters (Lion)
Kingdom of the Reach - Tyrells (Flower)
Kingdom of the Stormlands - Baratheon (Stag)
Kingdom of Dorne - Martell (Spear through the sun)

[Justin]

Loved pretty much all the added scenes but was dissapointed with the meeting between the brothers. I remember it being much more epic in the book and I didnt like how the scene came from nowhere.

[Loofy]

Loved pretty much all the added scenes but was dissapointed with the meeting between the brothers. I remember it being much more epic in the book and I didnt like how the scene came from nowhere.

The thing they missed was the entrance.. They just started the scene with them together instead of them slowly walking up to each other. And the part where renly said 'blah blah blah I got a 100000 men with me' they should have shown the army(budget?)

[Justin]

The thing they missed was the entrance.. They just started the scene with them together instead of them slowly building up to the meeting.

Yeah, I thought that they missed the great "oh shit moment" from the book when Renly finds out that Stannis just landed his ships outside the camp.

[KingK]

Could've sworn we'd seen her before the Pycelle scene too. Question! Please keep in mind that if the answer is somewhat spoilery, I've only read through SOS. Which seven nations/territories/cities precisely are the seven kingdoms? Dorne, Winterfell, Highgarden, Casterly Rock/Lannisport, the Eyrie, the Twins/Riverlands...? Question 2: (again, if the answer's details are spoilery, only read through SOS) Where exactly did the Baratheons come from? Every major house seems to have a home/location they attribute their ancestry to. The Baratheons seem a major house....or were they actually totally insignificant until Robert led the rebellion against Aerys Targaryen and claimed the throne with Ned's aid?

The 7 kingdoms, prior to Aegon's conquest, were:
1. The North ruled by the Starks in Winterfell

2. The Vale ruled by the Arryns of the Eyrie

3. The Westerlands ruled by the Lannisters of Casterly Rock

4. The Iron Islands and the conquered Riverlands territory ruled by Harren the Black of the Iron Islands (Harrenhall was build in his name. It's construction was completed on the exact day Aegon and his dragons landed on what would become King's Landing. The Riverlords were unhappy with their Ironborn rulers and were already on the verge of rebellion, so House Tully took leadership and joined cause with Aegon and was rewarded the title of Lord paramount of the Riverlands afterwards)

5. The Reach ruled by House Gardener of Highgarden (House Tyrell were stewards of the Gardeners, but after the Gardener/Lannister alliance was defeated by Aegon on the burning fields, the Tyrells surrendered Highgarden to Aegon and were rewarded with their former masters' seat and declared lords paramount of the Reach)

6. The Stormlands ruled by House Baratheon of Storm's End (House Baratheon was originally a bastard branch of house Targaryen that distinguished itself during Aegon's conquest by killing the last of the Storm Kings and were rewarded Storm's End after the war. The fact that House Baratheon could trace its lineage back to being Targaryen bastards and that Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen both helped bolster his claim to the throne after his rebellion)

7. Dorne ruled by House Martell of Sunspear

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Tyrion was badass this episode. Also like them talking about the brotherhood. Nice to get that out there.

[scosher]

The thing they missed was the entrance.. They just started the scene with them together instead of them slowly walking up to each other.

Yeah there wasn't even a setup before that or some clue-in to the viewer that Stannis had arrived to parlay.

I get the sense that this episode may have originally been the usual 58-60 minutes, but (ACOK spoiler) Renly's death didn't test as well of an ending as the shadow birth, considering how dark this episode was to begin with...Plus this is the first introduction to "magic" on the show, and that probably needs some time to sink in for the audience.

[GT Vespene]

The thing they missed was the entrance.. They just started the scene with them together instead of them slowly walking up to each other. And the part where renly said 'blah blah blah I got a 100000 men with me' they should have shown the army(budget?)

Yeah in the book Renly pretty much had a standing army behind him, ready to fight. Some will argue that they don't wanna add more locations like Storm's End to avoid confusion. [aCoK]After seeing how they went to black when Robb stormed the Lannister camp, it's obvious they're banking the big battle budget for Blackwater.

[i_am_not_jon_ames]

Totally forgot, Renly with the line of the night: "Is he a ham?"

[LordCanti]

The scene in the show where Joffrey makes that prostitute beat the other. Tywin showing up at Harrenhal. The rat torture. Little Finger at Renly's camp and talking to Cat. And then Melisendre giving birth to the shadow baby.The whole scene with Davos taking her in the boat reminded me of the 2nd time she uses the shadow in Clash. The first time when it actually kills Renly we don't see the birthing right? We just see the shadow killing Renly. Who's Jeyne? It could just be my bad memory lol

Joffrey is a sadistic prick; They've already set this up, but I guess the whore beating was to reinforce this. Also, it was an opportunity to have a couple naked ladies on the screen.

I'm not sure why Tywin is showing up at Harrenhal right now instead of when he was supposed to.

They heated the bucket, making the rat want to get out of the bucket. The only way out of the bucket was straight through the fleshy meat bag on the other end. As for why, they want to know where the "brotherhood" is (ACOK)(they've yet to explain what "the brotherhood" is in the show, but it's in the books).

Little Finger was sent to broker a deal with Cat Stark to get Jaime Lannister in exchange for Arya and Sansa Stark. She was at Renly's camp, so that's where he went. While there, he hatched some plans of his own with Renly, or at least talked about it briefly.

The birthing may have been changed a bit. I'd need to re-read. Them showing it happen may have just been because it seemed like an awesome idea.

[Woo-Fu]

Ok, on second viewing, Ros definitely beat the girl with the Stag staff. Thank goodness. Still a disturbing scene.

If an entire battle can fit into a fade to black I imagine you can fit quite a bit of sexual torture in one too, up to and beyond your worst imaginings.

[SerArthurDayne]

I was just in the other thread, and I was reminded of my favorite line, which I didn's see mentioned here.

There's no cure for being a cunt.

Bronn is fantastic.

Renly's ham line was great, too.

Also, my audio isn't great, what did the girl introduce herself as to Robb?



Cornballer, I saw there was a list of volunteers to answer book questions from the other thread. Feel free to add me to the list, as I enjoy the book back story stuff a ton.

[Justin]

The birthing may have been changed a bit. I'd need to re-read. Them showing it happen may have just been because it seemed like an awesome idea.

CoK spoiler The birthing is explained in the book just as it was show in the show but it was at a different time when they were taking another castle after renley died. It seems they are cutting out that part which is fine because it existed really only to show where the shadow being came from

[Net_Wrecker]

Kinda surprised they ended the episode there, but still GOTDAMN they did the shadowbaby justice. Great episode.

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Dany was out of it. I don't know why she was acting like a bumbling 14 year old, so odd coming from her; and then she speaks confidently seconds later.

Haha, oh man. Prepare yourself

[SerArthurDayne]

Haha, oh man. Prepare yourself

She is just a young girl, and knows little of these things.

[Buckethead]

Although at first I thought it was a terrible miscast, Xaro proved me wrong tonight.

Great job.

Also, yes, Bronn is awesome.

[Magnus]

Why's everyone surprised that that sequence ended the episode? It's a moment begging to be an hour-ending cliffhanger.

Readers of CoK might find it fun to pick out and guess (in tags) exactly where the next six episodes could/will/should end. Unless that's not appropriate for this thread.

[LordCanti]

Kinda surprised they ended the episode there, but still GOTDAMN they did the shadowbaby justice. Great episode.

It was either spend money on the shadow baby, or spend money on the battle at the beginning of the show. They chose wisely.

[Kuro Madoushi]

HOLY FUCK! HOLY. FUCK!

You guys know which part....

That wasn't in the book...and I haven't felt that uneasy since the knife scene in Pvt Ryan.

[apana]

This episode was good and special effects were amazing, not my favorite episode this season but I enjoyed it. Oh and Michelle Fairley totally deserves a best supporting actress nomination, I initially wanted Maise to get it but so far Michelle as Catelyn has been the best.

BTW I'm supertired of the dragons being hidden in such a shameful manner. They're literally the direwolves of season 2. Worse, even. Only one dragon has appeared, and only in one scene. :lol

I don't think it is a big deal, I'd love it if the dragons were around all the time but I'd rather they save money and use it on other stuff. It's an odd thing to complain about considering that this episode the special effects department was the star and clearly used their money wisely and well. Harrenhal, Qarth, shadow babies were all awesome.

[SerArthurDayne]

Although at first I thought it was a terrible miscast, Xaro proved me wrong tonight.

Dude was huge, not expecting that.

Liked how they made him a Summer Islander. A nod to the books, a bit of consistency, and it makes sense as he is just (technically) a merchant. The white guy whose name is too difficult to pronounce was kind of a shit. Scene had issues, but it was fine overall, I thought.

Also, just realized he co-starred with Drogo in the Conan bomba movie. He was kind of the buddy character, as I recall. Which, to be honest, I don't recall all that well. Clash Xaro's pretend personality should be similar, but I hope he conveys that he is an evil bastard just below the surface

Still don't understand why they didn't just kill everybody and steal the dragons.

[Dreams-Visions]

woah at the end.

[petethepanda]

That brief shot of Qarth was breathtaking.

Edit: Did anybody else get really excited when Joff briefly turned the crossbow on Ros? I'm sitting there saying "do it do it do it" lol

[Net_Wrecker]

Why's everyone surprised that that sequence ended the episode? It's a moment begging to be an hour-ending cliffhanger.

I just thought (ACOK SPOILERS): they would merge the shadow assassin birth + Renly death into one giant WTFFFFFFFF ending with the final scene being Catelyn and Brienne fleeing.

Not saying it wasn't a good way to end the episode though.