[Fuzzy]

A sword, to cut chains? What? He's surrounded by very twitchy guards, he ain't going anywhere. Cat will spend the next ep screaming about Bran and Rickon being dead, and she can't kill him as her daughers are hostage, she won't be releasing him. There are already too many characters for the available screentime, and we've spent enough time in Harrenhal this season. I'm starting to think now that they'll scrap the entire Jaime arc with Hoat in Harrenhal, there is too much to get through in season 3 already.

They have plenty of time to do ASoS with the 20 episodes over two seasons they have planned.

[systemfehler]

Is it only my imagination or is Daenerys more "complicated" (bitchy) on screen than I remember her from the books? It is a few months since I finished reading the books but I had pictured her more like a strong and demanding woman not like a spoiled child.

[Socreges]

A sword, to cut chains? What? He's surrounded by very twitchy guards, he ain't going anywhere. Cat will spend the next ep screaming about Bran and Rickon being dead, and she can't kill him as her daughers are hostage, she won't be releasing him. There are already too many characters for the available screentime, and we've spent enough time in Harrenhal this season. I'm starting to think now that they'll scrap the entire Jaime arc with Hoat in Harrenhal, and the infamous bear fight, there is too much to get through in season 3 already.

The hell are you talking about?

ACOK/ASOS In the book, Jaime mocked her about Ned, his honour, and Jon Snow. She responds by saying, "Give me your sword" to Brienne. Just like in the show. In the book, Catelyn/Brienne then release him (we find this out afterward in ASOS through Jaime). He then goes on a long journey East along the river and the Kingsroad.

Are you suggesting that they've played that exactly as it went down in the book.... but in a ridiculous twist she's going to cut off his hand and then leave him there? When the hell is he going to be released then?

Think about it this way: they played up the death of the son and how they all want him dead for a reason. If she leaves him there, he'll be dead soon and his worth as a hostage is gone. Her daughters will be done for as well. It's pretty obvious that she's going to release him, but like in the book they obviously wanted to make it seem like she was going to kill him.

Is it only my imagination or is Daenerys more "complicated" (bitchy) on screen than I remember her from the books? It is a few months since I finished reading the books but I had pictured her more like a strong and demanding woman not like a spoiled child.

The problem is that virtually every scene during this season has been her in some dramatic confrontation, Mother of Dragons, etc. rinse, repeat. The book gave her some contemplative downtime, but that's not something the show can afford.

[JoeTheBlow]

From the showrunners' perspective, this scene exists to remind us that Jaime is not just a cool guy who makes funny quips. His actions against Bran have likely faded from many viewers' attention (as they do even with book readers' occasionally), and they wanted to give a reminder of what lengths he will go to in order to survive/return to his loved ones. (Series) And to give him a baseline from which we can measure the redemption and change in his character. Feel free to disagree, but I think the strong negative reactions are overstating things.

I concur. The changes to the storylines are not just because there isn't anywhere near enough screentime for more characters, but because TV viewers simply have different attention spans and need to be reminded of things that they may have seen over a year ago. I think they are doing amazingly well, considering TV budgets.
Though the dumb guard fake-out could really have been better. Were all the other guards taking a piss?

The hell are you talking about?

I just can't see her releasing him, at all, at the moment. Show-Cat is far less moronic than Book-Cat.
edit: oh, just saw someone said the same yesterday.

[Ledsen]

A sword, to cut chains? What? He's surrounded by very twitchy guards, he ain't going anywhere. Cat will spend the next ep screaming about Bran and Rickon being dead, and she can't kill him as her daughers are hostage, she won't be releasing him. There are already too many characters for the available screentime, and we've spent enough time in Harrenhal this season. I'm starting to think now that they'll scrap the entire Jaime arc with Hoat in Harrenhal, and the infamous bear fight, there is too much to get through in season 3 already.

But she sent the guards away.

[Solo]

That was a disaster of an episode. An absolute crock of shit. A mockery of an HBO program. A blatant slap in the face to audiences that look for good television. Forget about the book. Put the book aside for a second, and view this episode and season objectively. The flaws are just too apparent, this has amateur hour written all over it. Jaime being chained up with his cousin, really? Only one soldier noticing the commotion of a high-security prisoner being beaten? Clumsily rushing in by himself and approaching the body of the least important captive in the cage, assuming that a bug bit him to death apparently. And, oh look, he has the key! This all reads like a high school play, for fucks sake. Please, I ask everyone in this thread to rewatch the scene of Jaime being dragged around in chains. The extras, oh my god, the extras. Stumbling around like drunks, it looks like they're taking more damage than Jaime. After being beaten by a club, an extra gives him a light tap with his foot, and the sound editing gives off a nice big THUMP as if it were a damaging blow. The guy in the middle of the shot about to fall off the horse. The tree branch getting stuck between the drunk extras. Inexcusable. The lack of direction in this show is unbelievable. Why, why, why is so much time spent with Ygritte teasing Jon about being a virgin? Why do we get a 5 minute scene of Jaime's cousin looking up to him. Why in the living fuck is Tywin opening up to Arya, spending so much time with her? Turning his back to her. Discussing private high profile matters openly while she chows on mutton and seems to be having a grand old time, instead of being in hopeless despair crying herself to sleep every night. This should be Tyrion's season. He swoops in and single-handedly rules the city. Instead of masterminding the defense of the city, he's sympathizing with Cersei about her inbred children. I can't even bring myself to bring up any more flaws. The source material of this show now has a big steaming pile of 17 episode shit rotting it. How can a show with so much political intrigue, plotting and backstabbing spend this much time on Jon and Ygritte spooning when Stannis is 5 days away from invading King's Landing? Enjoy your show, gaf.

Is this our first full on meltdown in here? It's entertaining as hell :lol

[Socreges]

I just can't see her releasing him, at all, at the moment. Show-Cat is far less moronic than Book-Cat.

It isn't moronic since they've done enough to demonstrate on the show how he would be killed if he remains in captivity.

edit: oh, just saw someone said the same yesterday.

Similarly rebuffed:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=9875
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=9885

;)

[fallengorn]

So I watched the episode and went to bed and proceeded to dream about the next episode which featured Martin Lawrence. At one point he showed up in his Big Mama's House getup.

[Lothar]

That was a disaster of an episode. An absolute crock of shit. A mockery of an HBO program. A blatant slap in the face to audiences that look for good television. Forget about the book. Put the book aside for a second, and view this episode and season objectively. The flaws are just too apparent, this has amateur hour written all over it. Jaime being chained up with his cousin, really? Only one soldier noticing the commotion of a high-security prisoner being beaten? Clumsily rushing in by himself and approaching the body of the least important captive in the cage, assuming that a bug bit him to death apparently. And, oh look, he has the key! This all reads like a high school play, for fucks sake. Please, I ask everyone in this thread to rewatch the scene of Jaime being dragged around in chains. The extras, oh my god, the extras. Stumbling around like drunks, it looks like they're taking more damage than Jaime. After being beaten by a club, an extra gives him a light tap with his foot, and the sound editing gives off a nice big THUMP as if it were a damaging blow. The guy in the middle of the shot about to fall off the horse. The tree branch getting stuck between the drunk extras. Inexcusable. The lack of direction in this show is unbelievable. Why, why, why is so much time spent with Ygritte teasing Jon about being a virgin? Why do we get a 5 minute scene of Jaime's cousin looking up to him. Why in the living fuck is Tywin opening up to Arya, spending so much time with her? Turning his back to her. Discussing private high profile matters openly while she chows on mutton and seems to be having a grand old time, instead of being in hopeless despair crying herself to sleep every night. This should be Tyrion's season. He swoops in and single-handedly rules the city. Instead of masterminding the defense of the city, he's sympathizing with Cersei about her inbred children. I can't even bring myself to bring up any more flaws. The source material of this show now has a big steaming pile of 17 episode shit rotting it. How can a show with so much political intrigue, plotting and backstabbing spend this much time on Jon and Ygritte spooning when Stannis is 5 days away from invading King's Landing? Enjoy your show, gaf.

I mostly agree with this. The upcoming battle is being given less time than Cersei complaining about her son and Jon being a virgin. Strange and stupid directing/writing considering how monumental the upcoming battle seemed in the books.

I loved Tywin and Arya's interaction for a long time but it's getting a little unrealistic.

Is this our first full on meltdown in here? It's entertaining as hell :lol

What he says is 100% true at the bottom though, whether or not you like the way he said it. They should be focusing more on the war and Tyrion getting the defense of the city ready.

[Rimfya]

I'm not that mad but I agree with most of those points.

Seemed to be all the marketing leading up to the season centred around Tyrion, rightfully so he was the stand out star of the show post-Ned. I've been hoping the show is going to centre around him in the last few episodes because there's been plenty of time wasted in the lead-up.

[Lothar]

I'm not that mad but I agree with most of those points. Seemed to be all the marketing leading up to the season centred around Tyrion, rightfully so he was the stand out star of the show post-Ned. I've been hoping the show is going to centre around him in the last few episodes because there's been plenty of time wasted in the lead-up.

That's right, he should be getting as much screen time as Ned in Season 1. That's the way the book did it. The show was doing it like that.

[reggieandTFE]

I mostly agree with this. The upcoming battle is being given less time than Cersei complaining about her son and Jon being a virgin. Strange and stupid directing/writing considering how monumental the upcoming battle seemed in the books. I loved Tywin and Arya's interaction for a long time but it's getting a little unrealistic. What he says is 100% true at the bottom though, whether or not you like the way he said it. They should be focusing more on the war and Tyrion getting the defense of the city ready.

Why should they be focused on the battle preparations? Because YOU want them to? They are obviously focused on developing characters similarly to their book counterparts without the luxury of 1200 pages. Hell, GRRM spends about 80% of the books on character development, 10% moving the plot, 8% describing meals and 2% on battles.

[Kosmo]

nvm - forgot she was pregnant already!

[tuco11]

Apologize if this was answered already but is Season 2 ten episodes? If last week was eps. 7 how come at the end it said 2 episodes left?

thanks.

[tino]

I just to compliment how they add the confessions about the incest relationship by both Cersei and Jamies in the same episode. I don't remember that in the book.

That really raise the stake and the tension so much higher. You get the sense that both Cersei and Jamie realize this is the last stand for the Lannister name.

I still hate they made Jamie into a monster though, fuck that.

[Ledsen]

Why should they be focused on the battle preparations? Because YOU want them to? They are obviously focused on developing characters similarly to their book counterparts without the luxury of 1200 pages. Hell, GRRM spends about 80% of the books on character development, 10% moving the plot, 8% describing meals and 2% on battles.

lol. Such an awesome fantasy staple :D

[Rez]

Honestly, my least favourite parts of the series are the battles. The talky chapters are the ones that fly by for me.

[jett]

Is this our first full on meltdown in here? It's entertaining as hell :lol

Why is that a meltdown? What he said was spot on. The showed is a dumbed down, "My Very First Song of Ice and Fire" version of the books.

Another thing I don't like it's that Theon has seemingly become the main character of the season, instead of Tyrion. What's that all about.

[Spiffy_1st]

Honestly, my least favourite parts of the series are the battles. The talky chapters are the ones that fly by for me.

You're saying that those Tyrion and Davos chapters towards the end of Clash of Kings were your least favourite?

I didn't think that opinion existed.

[Massa]

Why is that a meltdown? What he said was spot on. The showed is a dumbed down, "My Very First Song of Ice and Fire" version of the books. Another thing I don't like it's that Theon has seemingly become the main character of the season, instead of Tyrion. What's that all about.

Theon's character goes through the most interesting changes, and his arc is closely tied to the Starks and Winterfell that the audience identifies with.

You're saying that those Tyrion and Davos chapters towards the end of Clash of Kings were your least favourite? I didn't think that opinion existed.

Personally I love to the series for the interesting characters. The battles and political drama only serve to bring new character developments - to use the example I cited above, I don't care about who rules Winterfell or the North, but I find Theon's transformation incredibly exciting to watch.

[Ruze789]

Apologize if this was answered already but is Season 2 ten episodes? If last week was eps. 7 how come at the end it said 2 episodes left? thanks.

I believe it was a promo mistake, since HBO pulled that 'Next Week' spot entirely after the second showing of the episode. There are 3 episodes left.

[Meier]

Probably already posted but I just came across this on The Onion and had to share it.

LOS ANGELES—According to insider sources, the future of HBO's Game Of Thrones is currently in doubt, with the hit fantasy series facing a dire shortage of weather-beaten, bedraggled old men to cast. "A lot of the big crowd scenes in season two really depleted the available pool of greasy-haired bearded actors over 70, and for the sake of continuity we can't really reuse them," executive producer D.B. Weiss said Monday, stressing the importance of having a minimum of one new elderly and disheveled male character in every episode of the epic drama. "I honestly don't know what we're going to do. In the third season, we have at least a dozen war room meetings to film, and you can't shoot a war room meeting without having at least two or three poorly groomed old guys with big, tangly beards hanging around." The Game Of Thrones crisis is the latest in a series of casting woes to beleaguer HBO, which in March announced it had already used up its annual allocation of Steve Buscemi.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gam...-men-to,28183/

[Solo]

Why is that a meltdown?

Did you not read it?

[dead souls]

Why is that a meltdown? What he said was spot on. The showed is a dumbed down, "My Very First Song of Ice and Fire" version of the books. Another thing I don't like it's that Theon has seemingly become the main character of the season, instead of Tyrion. What's that all about.

In my house we've taken to calling it "A Survey of Thrones" since everything is being so rushed.

I agree with the posters who have said that we should be seeing more about the lead up to Blackwater. I think Benioff and Weiss have really dropped the ball on a lot of this season. It's still a good show, but not a great one, and far from what HBO is capable of in drama.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Regarding Jon/Ygritte in the show vs the books I think Jon will try to run, get cornered, the Halfhand will appear, and that's that. It sounds pretty lame so I hope I'm wrong :/

I have a worse fear ACOKJon tried to escape but doesn't, because he's an incapable idiot in the show, and the Wildlings actually capture the Halfhand and that's where they meet up again.

edit: Yeah, it's hard to argue with some of what he was saying in that meltdown. Except, the Tywin/Arya stuff. Their scenes are gold.

edit 2: but on the plus side, at least they're not wasting time on Ros anymore

[frequency]

I agree with a lot of the "meltdown". Although I'm not as angry about it and I'm still enjoying the show.

But I don't like where they're spending their time.
Could it be because of politics on set? Like certain actors have to have some amount of screen time?
That could be why the Tywin/Arya thing keeps going on and on and on.


... Though that doesn't explain what they're doing with Jon's story.

[Ramirez]

I'm glad I'm not one of those people who get upset everything isn't 1:1 with the books, I just enjoy it for what it is, which is a pretty decent adaptation of the books. We could have nothing at all...

[CrankyJay]

I agree with a lot of the "meltdown". Although I'm not as angry about it and I'm still enjoying the show. But I don't like where they're spending their time. Could it be because of politics on set? Like certain actors have to have some amount of screen time? That could be why the Tywin/Arya thing keeps going on and on and on. ... Though that doesn't explain what they're doing with Jon's story.

Wouldn't make sense since Dinklage has top billing on the show. Wouldn't it make sense he gets the most screen time then?

[frequency]

I'm glad I'm not one of those people who get upset everything isn't 1:1 with the books, I just enjoy it for what it is, which is a pretty decent adaptation of the books. We could have nothing at all...

Just because someone is disappointed with the direction doesn't mean they want it to be 1:1 with the books.

I don't want it to be 1:1 with the books but I'm:
- bummed at how dumb they're making Jon look.
- annoyed with how long the Tywin/Arya thing has been going. It was cute and fun at first, but now it's kind of dumb. Especially this last episode when she was thinking about killing him with the dinner knife. Jaqen can do it for her with one word. No dinner-knife or self-endangering necessary.
- confused about Xaro being all like "I WOULD NEVER TAKE YOUR DRAGONS" and then in the next scene is like "I did it." Why did the first scene happen at all?
- laughing at Jaime and that cousin talking forever about boring stuff and then the escape plan. I love that the guard walks right past Jaime and ignores him while looking at the guy on the floor - within arms reach of Jaime. Isn't it obvious the guy was killed by Jaime?

It has nothing to do with the books for me.

[Kammie]

After this last episode I have no more hopes of the show redeeming itself. The showrunners fail to understand the most basic elements of the novel and at this point are not only cutting things for budgetary reasons, but to give screentime to cliched or poorly thought-out crap that they make up or isn't necessary.

The protagonist of the book is Tyrion. This is HIS book, and it's his moment in the spotlight. We are given no hint throughout the season that he has a master plan in mind, or that he's using his position as hand to influence absolutely anything. But oh look, he slaps Joffrey again! The viewers will eat that up. Almost the entire novel is spent with him making preparations for the defense of the city. This makes Stannis a significant threat. We've gone two episodes now without Stannis. Will we go a third? By the time anything happens viewers probably won't even remember who the guy is.

Jaime killing his cousin is one of the worse liberties the show has taken with anything yet. I mean really, is it that difficult for him to ask his cousin to pretend he's dead? It's really necessary to kill him in cold blood like this? If he doesn't want him escaping with him he can just leave him chained up. This is just cheap shock value at the expense of an entire character. Furthermore, you're telling me they HAD to put the cousin in this cage, they couldn't have tied him up on a pole anywhere? Jesus.

The Arya and Tywin scenes are HORRIBLE. They're dehumanizing Jaime while humanizing Tywin. Why??? And Arya should be in Harrenhal fearing for her life, living in hopeless misery every day. The novel was painful to read with all the suffering she went through, and the hatred she harbors, but this is what gives her fortitude and creates her arc. I just don't understand why there's a need to make her look cozy and comfortable. Instead of spending 15 interminable minutes with Jaime and his cousin, why don't we get a simple scene of her breaking down in private or something? I mean come on, we're not even talking budget right now.

Here's a simple way to establish in 3 minutes what they haven't managed to do in 7 episodes, just by trimming the Jaime scene or getting rid of one of the 5 scenes with Jon which were all about the same thing anyway. Instead of shitting up the one-minute reveal of Bran and Rickon's bodies with an amateurish fade to black and Theon looking at what I can only suppose was a coin on the ground, why don't we have a foreboding piece of music come up, and in silent montage style, just a few establishing shots of some characters: Sansa crying over some bloody bed sheets, Arya hugging herself to sleep, Stannis brooding over his map, Cat looking over Ned's bones and sending them to Winterfell. Maybe it's not in the general style we've seen up till now, but one of the big things for me that the show is doing wrong (aside from all this, which will be labeled as nerd nitpicking by people who fail to see most of these are legitimate complaints about what ultimately amounts to making effective character and plot arcs) is the pedestrian way it is filmed and edited together. We have almost constant static shots and very basic edits that just cut back from one character to another, with no creativity to ANY of it, and a soundtrack that creeps in robotically on cue whenever a scene is reaching its climax. Why don't we get more scenes like when Theon arrived on Pyke, something with sweeping music, maybe a theme or two that can be orchestrated in a very subdued way during calm scenes so as to not call attention to itself? There are just so many ways this could be more cinematically presented.

Episode 9 is going to be a travesty. I feel it in my bones. :(

[jett]

Did you not read it?

I read a post of someone explaining why he didn't like this episode and the showrunners' handling of the source material.

[Duane Cunningham]

On a lighter note, ever notice how book readers call her Dany and non-book readers call her Khaleesi?

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Yeah, I think changes are necessary for the story if it's going to stand on its own feet as a TV show. Season 1 suffered a bit from being too close to the book where it felt like a Cliff's Notes version. The few added scenes they did in the first season were mostly pretty good. The changes in the second season are a bit worrying, not because their changing what's in the book, but because some of the changes are pretty bad (Jon and his storyline are pretty bad right now and a huge wasted opportunity, but of course there is still time and maybe it'll play out well this season).

And Arya should be in Harrenhal fearing for her life, living in hopeless misery every day. The novel was painful to read with all the suffering she went through, and the hatred she harbors, but this is what gives her fortitude and creates her arc. I just don't understand why there's a need to make her look cozy and comfortable. Instead of spending 15 interminable minutes with Jaime and his cousin, why don't we get a simple scene of her breaking down in private or something? I mean come on, we're not even talking budget right now.

I really like the Arya/Tywin stuff, but this is a pretty valid complaint.

[WeAreStarStuff]

Finally watched last night's episode. Some things are leaving a sour taste in my mouth (I've read all of the books twice.)

I don't know what the hell they are doing with John's story line. Now, I never liked him much as a character in the first place, and always dreaded reading another Wall Chapter when going through the books, but what the hell are they doing to him....seriously... where the hell is my damn Eagle? . I really like the casting for Ygritte, but I always pictured her hair more wild, curly, and brighter - kissed by fire after all. But, I know nothing John Snow.

I have not agreed with the Tyrwin/Arya interactions since the beginning. Yes, they are well acted, but Tywin is much too clever and cunning to sit here and divulge his plans to this girl, especially when he knows that she is posing as something that she's not. Also, the "My Lord" vs "milord" thing. ADWD That's between Reek and Bolton.

Jamie killing his cousin pissed me off and made me yell at my TV; what the hell writers? What the hell. I also found his conversation with Cat in the book far more enjoyable. An excerpt from their conversation in ACOK:


"Did the old Kings of Winter hide behind their mothers' skirts as well?"
"I grow wear of this, ser. There are things I must know."
"Why should I tell you anything?"
"To save your life."
"You think I fear death?" That seemed to amuse him.
"You should. Your crimes will have earned you a place of torment in the deepest of the seven hells, if the gods are just."
"What gods are those, Lady Catelyn? The trees your husband prayed to? How well did that serve him when my sister took off his head?" Jamie gave a chuckle. "If there are gods, why is the world so full of pain and injustice?"
"Because of men like you."
"There are no men like me. There's only me."

^Always enjoyed that exchange and was hoping to hear him say that last line especially.

Don't like what they are doing to Cersie as well, with them trying to make her sympathetic. Also, she wouldn't admit incest to Tyrion, and certainly not proclaim flaws with Joffrey. At the scene when she was crying, I thought they would include a scene I always found touching (not sure if from ACOK or SOS) When Tryion goes to comfort her, and she's snatches her shoulder away, telling him not to touch her; which hurt him incredibly.

[Angry Grimace]

After this last episode I have no more hopes of the show redeeming itself. The showrunners fail to understand the most basic elements of the novel and at this point are not only cutting things for budgetary reasons, but to give screentime to cliched or poorly thought-out crap that they make up or isn't necessary. The protagonist of the book is Tyrion. This is HIS book, and it's his moment in the spotlight. We are given no hint throughout the season that he has a master plan in mind, or that he's using his position as hand to influence absolutely anything. But oh look, he slaps Joffrey again! The viewers will eat that up. Almost the entire novel is spent with him making preparations for the defense of the city. This makes Stannis a significant threat. We've gone two episodes now without Stannis. Will we go a third? By the time anything happens viewers probably won't even remember who the guy is. Jaime killing his cousin is one of the worse liberties the show has taken with anything yet. I mean really, is it that difficult for him to ask his cousin to pretend he's dead? It's really necessary to kill him in cold blood like this? If he doesn't want him escaping with him he can just leave him chained up. This is just cheap shock value at the expense of an entire character. Furthermore, you're telling me they HAD to put the cousin in this cage, they couldn't have tied him up on a pole anywhere? Jesus. The Arya and Tywin scenes are HORRIBLE. They're dehumanizing Jaime while humanizing Tywin. Why??? And Arya should be in Harrenhal fearing for her life, living in hopeless misery every day. The novel was painful to read with all the suffering she went through, and the hatred she harbors, but this is what gives her fortitude and creates her arc. I just don't understand why there's a need to make her look cozy and comfortable. Instead of spending 15 interminable minutes with Jaime and his cousin, why don't we get a simple scene of her breaking down in private or something? I mean come on, we're not even talking budget right now. Here's a simple way to establish in 3 minutes what they haven't managed to do in 7 episodes, just by trimming the Jaime scene or getting rid of one of the 5 scenes with Jon which were all about the same thing anyway. Instead of shitting up the one-minute reveal of Bran and Rickon's bodies with an amateurish fade to black and Theon looking at what I can only suppose was a coin on the ground, why don't we have a foreboding piece of music come up, and in silent montage style, just a few establishing shots of some characters: Sansa crying over some bloody bed sheets, Arya hugging herself to sleep, Stannis brooding over his map, Cat looking over Ned's bones and sending them to Winterfell. Maybe it's not in the general style we've seen up till now, but one of the big things for me that the show is doing wrong (aside from all this, which will be labeled as nerd nitpicking by people who fail to see most of these are legitimate complaints about what ultimately amounts to making effective character and plot arcs) is the pedestrian way it is filmed and edited together. We have almost constant static shots and very basic edits that just cut back from one character to another, with no creativity to ANY of it, and a soundtrack that creeps in robotically on cue whenever a scene is reaching its climax. Why don't we get more scenes like when Theon arrived on Pyke, something with sweeping music, maybe a theme or two that can be orchestrated in a very subdued way during calm scenes so as to not call attention to itself? There are just so many ways this could be more cinematically presented. Episode 9 is going to be a travesty. I feel it in my bones. :(

The book and the series aren't the same thing. Your complaints revolve almost entirely around the theory the book and the series should be identical, but a lot of the things that occur in the book would be incredibly difficult to understand if put without alteration into the series. It's kind of a weird complaint too because you're judging the way they develop certain characters on the grounds that they're required to develop the characters in a very particular way in the future.

[AngryMoth]

On a lighter note, ever notice how book readers call her Dany and non-book readers call her Khaleesi?

I hopped into the other thread and saw some people calling her Kelly C which I thought was pretty funny

[28 Posts Later]

"Did the old Kings of Winter hide behind their mothers' skirts as well?" "I grow wear of this, ser. There are things I must know." "Why should I tell you anything?" "To save your life." "You think I fear death?" That seemed to amuse him. "You should. Your crimes will have earned you a place of torment in the deepest of the seven hells, if the gods are just." "What gods are those, Lady Catelyn? The trees your husband prayed to? How well did that serve him when my sister took off his head?" Jamie gave a chuckle. "If there are gods, why is the world so full of pain and injustice?" "Because of men like you." "There are no men like me. There's only me." ^Always enjoyed that exchange and was hoping to hear him say that last line especially.

Didn't they have that near exact conversation in the final episode of the first season?

[gutshot]

Edit: Beaten above, so I will use this post to make another point.

It's funny to compare this thread to the non-book spoilers thread. In there they are just talking about the show, their thoughts on the events so far and their predictions for the future. Here it's all, they've ruined this character or screwed up that arc or removed this great scene or added this crappy scene. It's kinda sad, really.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Jamie killing his cousin pissed me off and made me yell at my TV; what the hell writers? What the hell. I also found his conversation with Cat in the book far more enjoyable. An excerpt from their conversation in ACOK: "Did the old Kings of Winter hide behind their mothers' skirts as well?" "I grow wear of this, ser. There are things I must know." "Why should I tell you anything?" "To save your life." "You think I fear death?" That seemed to amuse him. "You should. Your crimes will have earned you a place of torment in the deepest of the seven hells, if the gods are just." "What gods are those, Lady Catelyn? The trees your husband prayed to? How well did that serve him when my sister took off his head?" Jamie gave a chuckle. "If there are gods, why is the world so full of pain and injustice?" "Because of men like you." "There are no men like me. There's only me." ^Always enjoyed that exchange and was hoping to hear him say that last line especially. [/spoiler]

That part was actually in the first season.

edit: twice beaten, :(

[umberhulk2]

I'll always like the book more, but at the same time, I like that the writers aren't a prisoner to it, and I enjoy watching new content.

[WeAreStarStuff]

Looks like I need to watch the first season again.

[tmdorsey]

It makes plenty of sense. Cat realizes that if the Karstarks kill Jaime, the chance of her getting her daughters back lessens significantly, and she has been proposed a deal to get her daughters back for Jaime. It's different than the book, but if she decides to release him (we don't really know based on that scene), it still makes sense.

I guess I liked and could understand the original reason releasing him out of panic after hearing about Bran and Rickon than worrying about the Karstarks killing him. I'm hoping they are just moving him where he can be better protected.

[Emerson]

None of these complaints are valid because we don't know the endpoint of the story being portrayed on screen. It is CLEARLY different from what we read, and the community is now reaching the breaking point between those who can handle it and those who can't. All of these arguments of "how are they going to do ______ now?" are absolutely meaningless because outside of the major story strokes we have no guarantee that any of it will happen.

This is a good TV show. It's not the best thing on tv but it is very good. Non book readers almost universally love the show while readers quibble about stupid shit. That alone should tell you the problem isn't inherently with the show.

We're past the point where book comparisons should even be considered valid discussion in this thread. They aren't the same thing. Deal with it or stop watching.

[dave is ok]

Apparently people hate well written dialogue. The long scenes between Jamie and the other Lannister and Arya and Tywin were both amazing - even if neither happened in the book.

[gdt]

Apparently people hate well written dialogue. The long scenes between Jamie and the other Lannister and Arya and Tywin were both amazing - even if neither happened in the book.

Yep.

[ronito]

What I'm surprised with is how much a mixed bag this season has been. Started very strong, the Shadow baby episode is probably one of my favorite episodes of any show ever. However I do agree they are sorta ignoring the whole "Prep" for Stannis thing while spending a lot of time on things that don't really matter.

For example, Jon and Yggrite.
Or even the scene with Jorah asking what's her name where the dragons were. Why in the world was that even necessary? Did it add anything? It certainly didn't change anything. It almost felt like "Oh crap we 4 minutes to fill what should we fill it with?"

Like I said I really like some of the changes they've made. The arya and Tywin arch is really great (though they need to learn they don't have to make those scenes so long). And I personally think the Xaro change is brilliant.

I think it comes from having so many different writers that the mixed quality and its sort of lack of overall cohesion.

[tmdorsey]

Yeah I'm so glad that even though I read the books, I still can view the show for what is and not get too upset over trivial shit.

I mean I do agree with the complaints about the lack of Tyrion or the significant cutting of Arya's arc, but it is what it is. I'm still enjoying the show and given the restraints the writers are under I can understand why the majority of these changes had to be made.

[Meier]

I almost feel like I'd prefer the other thread. Adapted material, especially in a fringe genre that has essentially had little to no mainstream success, is never going to place its focus on the existing fans. Some of the people in this thread are simply incapable of stepping back from the books and I have to say that I feel a bit bad for them.

[AlimNassor]

After this last episode I have no more hopes of the show redeeming itself. The showrunners fail to understand the most basic elements of the novel and at this point are not only cutting things for budgetary reasons, but to give screentime to cliched or poorly thought-out crap that they make up or isn't necessary. The protagonist of the book is Tyrion. This is HIS book, and it's his moment in the spotlight. We are given no hint throughout the season that he has a master plan in mind, or that he's using his position as hand to influence absolutely anything. But oh look, he slaps Joffrey again! The viewers will eat that up. Almost the entire novel is spent with him making preparations for the defense of the city. This makes Stannis a significant threat. We've gone two episodes now without Stannis. Will we go a third? By the time anything happens viewers probably won't even remember who the guy is. Jaime killing his cousin is one of the worse liberties the show has taken with anything yet. I mean really, is it that difficult for him to ask his cousin to pretend he's dead? It's really necessary to kill him in cold blood like this? If he doesn't want him escaping with him he can just leave him chained up. This is just cheap shock value at the expense of an entire character. Furthermore, you're telling me they HAD to put the cousin in this cage, they couldn't have tied him up on a pole anywhere? Jesus. The Arya and Tywin scenes are HORRIBLE. They're dehumanizing Jaime while humanizing Tywin. Why??? And Arya should be in Harrenhal fearing for her life, living in hopeless misery every day. The novel was painful to read with all the suffering she went through, and the hatred she harbors, but this is what gives her fortitude and creates her arc. I just don't understand why there's a need to make her look cozy and comfortable. Instead of spending 15 interminable minutes with Jaime and his cousin, why don't we get a simple scene of her breaking down in private or something? I mean come on, we're not even talking budget right now. Here's a simple way to establish in 3 minutes what they haven't managed to do in 7 episodes, just by trimming the Jaime scene or getting rid of one of the 5 scenes with Jon which were all about the same thing anyway. Instead of shitting up the one-minute reveal of Bran and Rickon's bodies with an amateurish fade to black and Theon looking at what I can only suppose was a coin on the ground, why don't we have a foreboding piece of music come up, and in silent montage style, just a few establishing shots of some characters: Sansa crying over some bloody bed sheets, Arya hugging herself to sleep, Stannis brooding over his map, Cat looking over Ned's bones and sending them to Winterfell. Maybe it's not in the general style we've seen up till now, but one of the big things for me that the show is doing wrong (aside from all this, which will be labeled as nerd nitpicking by people who fail to see most of these are legitimate complaints about what ultimately amounts to making effective character and plot arcs) is the pedestrian way it is filmed and edited together. We have almost constant static shots and very basic edits that just cut back from one character to another, with no creativity to ANY of it, and a soundtrack that creeps in robotically on cue whenever a scene is reaching its climax. Why don't we get more scenes like when Theon arrived on Pyke, something with sweeping music, maybe a theme or two that can be orchestrated in a very subdued way during calm scenes so as to not call attention to itself? There are just so many ways this could be more cinematically presented. Episode 9 is going to be a travesty. I feel it in my bones. :(

claps. Agree. So disappointing. I mean it's not that hard to make it like the books, ASOS is going to be bad I can feel it. I'm tempted to not watch anymore. it's ruined all my characters.

[nib95]

Ok, having read the complaints and meltdowns, I can completely understand where they are coming from....IF the series were completely following the books. But clearly, they're not. They are going for their own style and adaptation of events, with different importance placed on different things, as well as a change up in characterisations too.

Now I don't know this for certain, since I have not read the books, but I have now read enough to know this does seem to be the case. Based on comments, there is obviously a bit of creative leeway being given here, and it's just not the exact series the books would have had you believe. Luckily, having not read the books, I seem to be enjoying it a lot more than some.