[RaidenZR]

I'm not a big fan myself. I thought her acting during Renly's murder scene was god awful. I dare anyone to go back and check. Her "Nooooo!" was fucking cringe-worthy, not kidding. She looks the part well enough though, but I'm not convinced acting-wise.

I don't think that scene is a good indicator, or that any one actor deserves the blame. The whole scene was shot, edited, and executed poorly, so every actor came out looking awkward and the succession of moments felt strange overall. People barely reacting when the shadow crept into the room, took shape, and even less reaction when it stabbed him immediately.

Rewatching that scene makes me cringe.

[Fuzzy]

Who wants an awesome avatar of Tyrion playing chess? Free to whoever wants it.

[JoJoShabadoo]

I'd just like to point out that making an entire season about battling and strategizing is tiresome, not to mention expensive. Shows need off-the-wall, funny stuff. Tyrion slapping Joffrey around presents the viewer with a bright spot in the dark place that is King's Landing. Just having unlikeable characters plot to do things to other unlikeable characters makes for a pretty dull show.

This post proves that a lot of you are in denial. That's what the series is. Dark, gritty fantasy.

[Fuzzy]

Just noticed this on the last page. Syrio is a pretty good dancing teacher.

[Emerson]

This post proves that a lot of you are in denial. That's what the series is. Dark, gritty fantasy.

What do you want? Do you want a show that exists for a year or two and then disappears forever or one that makes some concessions and has a chance of seeing completion?

[Kosmo]

So as onle not worried about hearing spoilers, I was reading up on Arya's future and is that right that she basically becomes a wanderer and never really returns to her family or attains a prominent position???

Can someone who read the books comment?

[Angry Grimace]

Posts like this miss the point. Just because the show does something different than the books doesn't mean it should be protected from criticism. People should praise the show when it does something different that sounds good, and criticize it when it does something different that doesn't. Just because they aren't the same thing doesn't mean book readers can't voice their opinions on something that was changed that they don't like. Posts like this one unfairly loop all posts criticizing a change in the show as posts from whiny fanboy book readers. It does nothing but alienate a certain group in this thread and fails to foster decent discussion. Yes the show is something different, but sometimes the books do things better. It's fair to criticize that. I think it's YOU who needs to deal with that.

Sure, except most of the criticism is based on assumptions of the some endpoint, e.g. "Tywin can't possibly act in a certain way because he's required to act in a specific way next season/book."

[Frost_Ace]

So as onle not worried about hearing spoilers, I was reading up on Arya's future and is that right that she basically becomes a wanderer and never really returns to her family or attains a prominent position??? Can someone who read the books comment?

You really wanna know?

[Kosmo]

You really wanna know?

Anything more than what is written here?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Arya_Stark

[Meier]

So as onle not worried about hearing spoilers, I was reading up on Arya's future and is that right that she basically becomes a wanderer and never really returns to her family or attains a prominent position??? Can someone who read the books comment?

Series spoilers regarding Arya Yes, this is essentially true as far as has been released. She is in training to become an assassin and has been isolated from everyone she knows for the last 2 books that have been released.

[Kosmo]

Series spoilers regarding Arya Yes, this is essentially true as far as has been released. She is in training to become an assassin and has been isolated from everyone she knows for the last 2 books that have been released.

Oh OK, so there are more books to come? I am glad of the rumor that season 3 will only be a 1/2 book so I can catch up.

[Meier]

Oh OK, so there are more books to come? I am glad of the rumor that season 3 will only be a 1/2 book so I can catch up.

The series is planned to have 7 books, the author (George R. R. Martin) has released 5 of the planned 7 thus far. I think the word is he hasn't necessarily started 6 yet and 5 took many, many years so you'll definitely have plenty of time to catch up, haha.

[dave is ok]

The series is planned to have 7 books, the author (George R. R. Martin) has released 5 of the planned 7 thus far. I think the word is he hasn't necessarily started 6 yet and 5 took many, many years so you'll definitely have plenty of time to catch up, haha.

He just did an interview with Rolling Stone saying he has 200 pages done of Book 6.

So another 7 or 8 years.

[Socreges]

Edit: Beaten above, so I will use this post to make another point. It's funny to compare this thread to the non-book spoilers thread. In there they are just talking about the show, their thoughts on the events so far and their predictions for the future. Here it's all, they've ruined this character or screwed up that arc or removed this great scene or added this crappy scene. It's kinda sad, really.

What's funny is the people saying that their complaints are objective, irrespective of comparisons to the book, which is completely untrue. It's a dissatisfaction with how the material is being converted, although there are certainly some instances of just plain bad writing (eg, Jaime getting the cell key).

Regarding a couple of the complaints. Jamie COKFirst of all, Jamie is a one note villain in the books until the third book anyway when he gets his own POV chapters. The scene with him talking with his cousin showed him to not be entirely cruel he gave someone who idolized him a very personal and touching story and pretended to remember him when he probably didn't. The killing only showed that Jamie is willing to do anything to save himself, something that isn't out of character for Jamie at all - which makes it even more surprising when he goes back to save Brienne in the next season

...you do realize his story and pretending was precisely so he could eventually get close enough to kill him? The entire scene showed off his coldness and cruelty.

[methodman]

I think the Tywin / arya stuff is awesome tv. Love every minute of it.

[PhoenixPause]

If the show continues, he won't have the luxury to take massive amounts of time with the next book. Considering he solved the major issue that plagued the writing of ADWD, I think the next book can come out in three years.

[FStop7]

I mostly agree with this. The upcoming battle is being given less time than Cersei complaining about her son and Jon being a virgin. Strange and stupid directing/writing considering how monumental the upcoming battle seemed in the books. I loved Tywin and Arya's interaction for a long time but it's getting a little unrealistic. What he says is 100% true at the bottom though, whether or not you like the way he said it. They should be focusing more on the war and Tyrion getting the defense of the city ready.

Sometimes when I watch an episode of GoT I feel the same anxiety I used to when watching an episode of the Sopranos. It was this feeling of "Come on, hurry the fuck up, why are we spending all of this time on idle exposition, we get it. Let's go. There are only 20 minutes left, come on!"

[Ducarmel]

anybody know the name of the score at the ending of the last episode


spoilers don't click if you did not watch it yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bQVd65GLvM

[Angry Grimace]

The series is planned to have 7 books, the author (George R. R. Martin) has released 5 of the planned 7 thus far. I think the word is he hasn't necessarily started 6 yet and 5 took many, many years so you'll definitely have plenty of time to catch up, haha.

There's a chapter of 6 up on his site, so he's clearly started it. I don't think it's too likely he's planning to just cause the entire series to crash by not writing the books fast enough to get the series out. Granted, that still gives him a LOT of time to write the books since we're only on season two.

[Plywood]

I feel like the last episode kinda took a dump on certain parts of the book. I'm not liking the way they're deviating with Jon and Daenerys.

[Speevy]

This post proves that a lot of you are in denial. That's what the series is. Dark, gritty fantasy.

You mean like burning children? Slitting baby throats? Constant beheadings and throat slittings?

Sounds pretty dark to me.

A show with no levity or hope is a show that won't last past one season.

[frequency]

I don't like that all criticism in this thread is just being labeled as "You're just mad it's different from the books!"

I dislike the direction in this season and it has nothing to do with the books. The last time I read from this series was over five years ago. I haven't read the second book for way longer than that. And my memory is really bad.

There are just some scenes that I find really dumb.

[i_am_not_jon_ames]

So we hate the show now? Just making sure so I can adjust the sarcasm in my Twitter/Facebook updates accordingly.

[KingK]

Just got around to watching the most recent episode. I do not like the changes they're making with Jon Snow right now. I may end up being wrong, but if they're planning on doing what I think they are, then it's a pretty bad and unnecessary deviation from the book.

Theon stuff continues to be brilliant though. I really liked that theme that played at the end when he showed Winterfell the corpses. Although anytime I notice myself enjoying a musical score on this show, it reminds me of how much they've failed in general at getting consistently great music in here. Fantasy series' should have great music imo, and GoT has (with a few occasional exceptions) been lacking there.

[frequency]

So we hate the show now? Just making sure so I can adjust the sarcasm in my Twitter/Facebook updates accordingly.

You can criticize things that you enjoy. Why does it have to be "love or hate"?

[i_am_not_jon_ames]

You can criticize things that you enjoy. Why does it have to be "love or hate"?

Agreed, just being a jerk. Sorry!

I do feel like (and believe me, this isn't directed at any one poster) that once some legitimate criticism surfaces, it's just really easy for everyone to go overboard. That's all.

[jett]

Damn, terms of my parole are that I can't watch something like this.

wat

[jett]

If the show continues, he won't have the luxury to take massive amounts of time with the next book. Considering he solved the major issue that plagued the writing of ADWD, I think the next book can come out in three years.

And then what. That still leaves book 7 out in the winds, and at this point I doubt this story can be finished in just two more books. If the show still exists after these many years it will undoubtedly have to go down a completely uncharted path.

Good news is though HBO shows rarely last so long. :P

[Diablos54]

A show with no levity or hope is a show that won't last past one season.

Umm... You know this is Season TWO, right? :p

[PhoenixPause]

And then what. That still leaves book 7 out in the winds, and at this point I doubt this story can be finished in just two more books. If the show still exists after these many years it will undoubtedly have to go down a completely uncharted path. Good news is though HBO shows rarely last so long. :P

True. I don't expect the show to last past ASOS; I wouldn't be surprised if it's cancelled after next season (first ASOS half) tbh, given the rising costs. Regardless the show's current existence will certainly motivate Martin's work

[Speevy]

Umm... You know this is Season TWO, right? :p

Yeah, and you do know this show is not all darkness and doom, right?

[tmdorsey]

True. I don't expect the show to last past ASOS; I wouldn't be surprised if it's cancelled after next season (first ASOS half) tbh, given the rising costs. Regardless the show's current existence will certainly motivate Martin's work

Speaking of costs, I really hope they give them a decent sized budget for next season.

[Angry Grimace]

I don't like that all criticism in this thread is just being labeled as "You're just mad it's different from the books!" I dislike the direction in this season and it has nothing to do with the books. The last time I read from this series was over five years ago. I haven't read the second book for way longer than that. And my memory is really bad. There are just some scenes that I find really dumb.

That's such a nebulous criticism.

I have yet to see a single criticism that doesn't end up with "because of the books." Even the arguments about the camera work tend to revolve around re-cutting scenes to reflect the way the critic saw it in the book.

True. I don't expect the show to last past ASOS; I wouldn't be surprised if it's cancelled after next season (first ASOS half) tbh, given the rising costs. Regardless the show's current existence will certainly motivate Martin's work

That's just wild guessing unless there's some actual reason to suggest the show is unprofitable; I just have my doubts that the profit margins are really that tight. There really isn't any reason to assume as such, at least not yet. Sure, salaries go up, but the show isn't handling a ton of big stars really.

[pulga]

I like most of the changes done for the show, particularly Dany's crap in Qarth. Don't really care for Jaime's kinslaying, it's not THAT out of character for him. What I'm truly upset by is:

ACOK: Where the fuck is Tyrion's chain? Hell, where the fuck is Tyrion at all? Where's the prep time? In the book, and at the start of the season, he's up in everyones shit, laying down the law. What the hell are they doing with Tyrion, apart from being Cersei's shoulder to cry on or some shit.

BONUS BITCHING: The hell with all the Arya stuff? I mean, I love her interaction with Tywin, but a big BIG part of ACOK was Arya's suffering in Harrenhal. Last ep, she's fine dining roast mutton and having pleasant chats with the most powerful man in all of Westeros. The show NEEDS to start dragging her through the mud and showing the desperate situation she's supposed to be in. Really unhappy with what's happening with my two favorite characters.


Also, Ygritte NAILED her line. I fist pumped.

[Socreges]

True. I don't expect the show to last past ASOS; I wouldn't be surprised if it's cancelled after next season (first ASOS half) tbh, given the rising costs. Regardless the show's current existence will certainly motivate Martin's work

Question for everyone. Which would you prefer:

A) GoT is cancelled after three seasons and GRRM goes on to complete the remaining books, wrapping up the entire series.
B) GoT makes it to season 7 (The Winds of Winter), but due to his investment in the show GRRM is not able to begin the final book (Dream of Spring) before passing away.

[Famassu]

True. I don't expect the show to last past ASOS; I wouldn't be surprised if it's cancelled after next season (first ASOS half) tbh, given the rising costs. Regardless the show's current existence will certainly motivate Martin's work

ASOS shouldn't be too expensive when cut to two parts, especially not the first half. And I don't understand why you'd expect it to not make past ASOS.

[Emerson]

Question for everyone. Which would you prefer: A) GoT is cancelled after three seasons and GRRM goes on to complete the remaining books, wrapping up the entire series. B) GoT makes it to season 7 (The Winds of Winter), but due to his investment in the show GRRM is not able to begin the final book (Dream of Spring) before passing away.

A without question.

[frequency]

That's such a nebulous criticism. I have yet to see a single criticism that doesn't end up with "because of the books." Even the arguments about the camera work tend to revolve around re-cutting scenes to reflect the way the critic saw it in the book.

I posted a very short criticism of some events in the last episode that I felt were just dumb. They have nothing to do with the books. I just didn't want to re-post them because it's on the last page.

There are some other complaints people have had too, but everyone just focuses on the long post about how it's not like the book and labels all critics as book-people who can't accept differences.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Question for everyone. Which would you prefer: A) GoT is cancelled after three seasons and GRRM goes on to complete the remaining books, wrapping up the entire series. B) GoT makes it to season 7 (The Winds of Winter), but due to his investment in the show GRRM is not able to begin the final book (Dream of Spring) before passing away.

A. No question.

The series is becoming more of a diversion to help with the wait for the next book than anything else.

[Steelyuhas]

This series has quickly become huge for HBO.

It's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Socreges]

I posted a very short criticism of some events in the last episode that I felt were just dumb. They have nothing to do with the books. I just didn't want to re-post them because it's like last page.

Some of them do. Jon looking "dumb" - if you hadn't read the books, you'd just be going along with it. Same with Arya/Tywin. As for the 'she could just use her third kill', maybe she wants to hold on to it for someone else however much she might want to kill Tywin.

[Diablos54]

Yeah, and you do know this show is not all darkness and doom, right?

Apart from the odd one-liners, it pretty much is. Pretty much nothing good ever happens for the good characters :p

[dave is ok]

Yeah, Peter Dinklage is on the cover of Rolling Stone right now. I don't think HBO is thinking about cancelling.

[Emerson]

I posted a very short criticism of some events in the last episode that I felt were just dumb. They have nothing to do with the books. I just didn't want to re-post them because it's like last page. There are some other complaints people have had too, but everyone just focuses on the long post about how it's not like the book and labels all critics as book-people who can't accept differences.

"I don't want it to be 1:1 with the books but I'm:
- bummed at how dumb they're making Jon look. Why? If the books didn't exist this would not be a complaint. He'd just be a young character acting foolishly, which makes sense.
- annoyed with how long the Tywin/Arya thing has been going. It was cute and fun at first, but now it's kind of dumb. Especially this last episode when she was thinking about killing him with the dinner knife. Jaqen can do it for her with one word. No dinner-knife or self-endangering necessary. I have no problem with the Tywin stuff still happening though I do agree the knife/neck thing was kind of dumb
- confused about Xaro being all like "I WOULD NEVER TAKE YOUR DRAGONS" and then in the next scene is like "I did it." Why did the first scene happen at all? Characters lie? I could do wth a rewatch of this sequence but I don't really see the issue with it
- laughing at Jaime and that cousin talking forever about boring stuff and then the escape plan. I love that the guard walks right past Jaime and ignores him while looking at the guy on the floor - within arms reach of Jaime. Isn't it obvious the guy was killed by Jaime? 1)If you think this was boring I don't even know what to tell you. This was pure and simple excellent dialogue.
2) The cousin being put there and the guard being an idiot were definitely somewhat contrived though"

[Bootaaay]

Question for everyone. Which would you prefer: A) GoT is cancelled after three seasons and GRRM goes on to complete the remaining books, wrapping up the entire series. B) GoT makes it to season 7 (The Winds of Winter), but due to his investment in the show GRRM is not able to begin the final book (Dream of Spring) before passing away.

On one hand, I fear that, whatever George writes, it won't be a satisfactory conclusion to the series. On the other hand, I already know that, for me, the show has largely failed to capture the scope of the series, partly due to condensing of the plot into a 10 episode per-season format, and partly due to budgetary problems.

So, A, despite any misgivings.

[Angry Grimace]

Just because someone is disappointed with the direction doesn't mean they want it to be 1:1 with the books. I don't want it to be 1:1 with the books but I'm: - bummed at how dumb they're making Jon look. - annoyed with how long the Tywin/Arya thing has been going. It was cute and fun at first, but now it's kind of dumb. Especially this last episode when she was thinking about killing him with the dinner knife. Jaqen can do it for her with one word. No dinner-knife or self-endangering necessary. - confused about Xaro being all like "I WOULD NEVER TAKE YOUR DRAGONS" and then in the next scene is like "I did it." Why did the first scene happen at all? - laughing at Jaime and that cousin talking forever about boring stuff and then the escape plan. I love that the guard walks right past Jaime and ignores him while looking at the guy on the floor - within arms reach of Jaime. Isn't it obvious the guy was killed by Jaime? It has nothing to do with the books for me.

These aren't really good criticisms. Why does Jon look dumb? Because he clearly is pretty dumb. You're comparing him to book Jon.

The whole Tywin/Arya thing is being laid out like that on purpose; if she were acting rationally, she would just have Jaqen kill Tywin but she isn't doing it because he's acting vaguely non-sinister and human like. I think that's kind of like, the point.

As for Xaro, I mean, probably because he's a fucking liar? I don't know. You're asking why a character with a clear motivation to lie would deliberately lie.

I'll grant you the "omg prisoner is sick" and then escaping is a pretty well-tred trope, but it's truth in fiction, that sort of thing really does work. It's just some dumb grunt guarding him and he's probably going to be in some deep shit if one of the Lannister prisoners he has dies horribly under his watch.

[frequency]

Some of them do. Jon looking "dumb" - if you hadn't read the books, you'd just be going along with it. Same with Arya/Tywin. As for the 'she could just use her third kill', maybe she wants to hold on to it for someone else however much she might want to kill Tywin.

No. Jon looks dumb because he looks dumb. I don't even remember much about him from the books. I really only remember the very big major plot points. Not details like how each characters personalities are.

Truth is, I love the setting of Jon's story. And I think his actor is very attractive. That's really all there is to it. It bums me out that he's made to look un-smart.

Arya/Tywin is going on too long. That story isn't going anywhere. The information I have from the show is that Jaqen can kill whoever in any amount of time. I don't even remember how it was in the books. In the last episode she was clearly thinking about killing Tywin. Why didn't she use Jaqen? What indication is the show giving me that there's "someone else" she wants to hold onto it for? He's the big baddy fighting her brother.



EDIT:
The point of the Xaro thing isn't that he lied. But that they wasted a scene on it.

And the Jaime - guard thing came off even worse because Jaime just got done saying how the Starks are so good at keeping prisoners. And then you get like the dumbest guard ever who was supposed to be watching their biggest most important prisoner. Alone.

I'm not the smartest person or anything. But those scenes I mentioned just seemed... dumb to me. They made no sense, wasted time, or were just unentertaining to me.
It's okay if people think my criticisms are dumb. I just don't like that it's all being labeled as "YOU ALL JUST WANT IT TO BE 1:1 WITH THE BOOKS"

[Emerson]

No. Jon looks dumb because he looks dumb. I don't even remember much about him from the books. I really only remember the very big major plot points. Not details like how each characters personalities are. Truth is, I love the setting of Jon's story. And I think his actor is very attractive. That's really all there is to it. It bums me out that he's made to look un-smart. Arya/Tywin is going on too long. That story isn't going anywhere. The information I have from the show is that Jaqen can kill whoever in any amount of time. I don't even remember how it was in the books. In the last episode she was clearly thinking about killing Tywin. Why didn't she use Jaqen? What indication is the show giving me that there's "someone else" she wants to hold onto it for? He's the big baddy fighting her brother. The point of the Xaro thing isn't that he lied. But that they wasted a scene on it.

I still don't really understand why Jon looking stupid is a criticism of the story though. He frankly should be, he's supposed to be a kid.

I think the real criticism of the Arya/Tywin scene is that she'd even consider killing him at this point, not that she didn't get Jaqen to do it. She stands to gain absolutely nothing by killing Tywin, as he's all that stands between her and torture or death.

They didn't waste a scene on Xaro lying. It was said in passing and took all of 3 seconds.

Really though, I disagree with your opinions but don't have a problem with you having them and would absolutely defend your right to discuss them. I just hate reading endless book comparisons and people calling the show unsalvageable shit when it's not even close to that.

[Meier]

They didn't waste a scene on Xaro lying. It was said in passing and took all of 3 seconds.

Not to mention that it lets the viewer know Dany at least still thinks he's likely innocent. That Pyat Pree killing of the 12 scene was fucking fantastic and it loses some of its impact if we don't have the Xaro scene prior to it.

I don't even understand the issue with people's complaints about Jon. He's a kid who has never boned a chick and has this super hot, powerfully independent girl, nay woman, grinding on his cock and telling him she's ready to throw down. Of course he's going to be a bit off his game and easily distracted. He isn't a seasoned member of the Night's Watch or anything.. he's a new recruit essentially.

Basically, people's complaints are almost universally due to things being changed from the book even if they act as if they're from a neutral viewer's perspective. You can't be neutral if you have preconceived notions.

[Socreges]

No. Jon looks dumb because he looks dumb. I don't even remember much about him from the books. I really only remember the very big major plot points. Not details like how each characters personalities are. Truth is, I love the setting of Jon's story. And I think his actor is very attractive. That's really all there is to it. It bums me out that he's made to look un-smart. Arya/Tywin is going on too long. That story isn't going anywhere. The information I have from the show is that Jaqen can kill whoever in any amount of time. I don't even remember how it was in the books. In the last episode she was clearly thinking about killing Tywin. Why didn't she use Jaqen? What indication is the show giving me that there's "someone else" she wants to hold onto it for? He's the big baddy fighting her brother. The point of the Xaro thing isn't that he lied. But that they wasted a scene on it. I'm not the smartest person or anything. But those scenes I mentioned just seemed... dumb to me. They made no sense, wasted time, or were just unentertaining to me. It's okay if people think my criticisms are dumb. I just don't like that it's all being labeled as "YOU ALL JUST WANT IT TO BE 1:1 WITH THE BOOKS"

I don't think your criticisms are necessarily dumb (some I agree with). But I do think you should realize that some of your criticisms are because of preconceptions created by the book. You think you're not comparing them, but you absolutely are.

The information I have from the show is that Jaqen can kill whoever in any amount of time. I don't even remember how it was in the books. In the last episode she was clearly thinking about killing Tywin. Why didn't she use Jaqen? What indication is the show giving me that there's "someone else" she wants to hold onto it for? He's the big baddy fighting her brother.

Arya whispers several different names at night. Tywin Lannister has not been among those names.