[ronito]

Considering the success of the original series the guy who gave the go ahead for *only* 12 episodes was a fucking moron. There is absolutely no rational reasoning I can think of that can justify only ordering 12 episodes to the sequel series to arubaly Nicks most successful and critically acclaimed show.

Yeah that's a moronic move.

But it does explain why everything feels sorta done.

[maharg]

I hope they don't leave the bender vs. normal issue lying on the ground. They touched a live wire, now they've gotta follow through.

[Perspicacity]

nick isnt known for competency when it comes to this franchise. i wish mike and bryan found another suitor for their baby

It sort of blows my mind that they don't even try to make money in merchandising. I think ATLA got a couple of action figures (with no Toph or Katara of course) and Korra got... nothing? Not that I'd buy it, but with the ratings these shows pull...

[mjc]

When you think about it, Nick has really mismanaged the Avatar series, not to mention the movie. Its kind of mindblowing.

[shira]

All dressed up and they did it wrong.

[Johann]

nick isnt known for competency when it comes to this franchise. i wish mike and bryan found another suitor for their baby

The change in the writing staff was a pretty big red flag, especially the departure of Aaron Ehasz. He was behind many of my favorite episodes in the original series.

[Poyunch]

I captured most of Steve Blum's Anime Expo panel if anyone cares.

[Omikaru]

This has convinced me to reply to this thread once more. I've been trying to stay out to make up for the fact that I pretty much spammed this thread for the best part of two months.

Anyway... LOL.

And just like maharg, I also hope they don't just drop the bender and non-bender divide. That would make the world feel really unconvincing in Book Two. There needs to be scars, and consequences. I want to see benders angry at non-benders and retaliate, and watch things escalate.

[talisayNon]

would be badass if korra turns heel, sees the value in what Amon is trying to do and then spiritbends everyone in the world.

[TacticalFox88]

would be badass if korra turns heel, sees the value in what Amon is trying to do and then spiritbends everyone in the world.

Badass? What? That'd be a character derail on so many levels it's ridiculous

[Supermanisdead]

Badass? What? That'd be a character derail on so many levels it's ridiculous

but she would debend mako!

[BigDug13]

would be badass if korra turns heel, sees the value in what Amon is trying to do and then spiritbends everyone in the world.

Or reverse of Amon and makes everyone equal by making everyone a bender if they choose it.

[Ghost_Protocol]

I just finished marathoning both Avatar and Korra and... Avatar is so superior it isn't even funny. Korra just feels so small in every way. It was engaging enough to watch, but it never grabbed me the way Avatar did. Also found the CG backdrops really distracting most of the time. Kinda surprised anyone think it looks better (animation-wise) than Avatar, tbh.

I feel exactly the same way. I wonder how the creators feel?

[Grakl]

Badass? What? That'd be a character derail on so many levels it's ridiculous

nope it's exactly what she would do

[CornBurrito]

I hope they don't leave the bender vs. normal issue lying on the ground. They touched a live wire, now they've gotta follow through.

I used to think they were good writers, but this finale was so bad I don't trust them to do the intelligent thing and have it be an issue.

Instead I suspect anyone with Equalist mentality will get Godwin'd (OMG YOU KNOW WHO ELSE SAID NONBENDERS WERE OPPRESSED? A BLOODBENDER!). And somehow the leader being a hypocrite will make everyone think the entire movement was ridiculous.

[Veelk]

I used to think they were good writers, but this finale was so bad I don't trust them to do the intelligent thing and have it be an issue. Instead I suspect anyone with Equalist mentality will get Godwin'd (OMG YOU KNOW WHO ELSE SAID NONBENDERS WERE OPPRESSED? A BLOODBENDER!). And somehow the leader being a hypocrite will make everyone think the entire movement was ridiculous.

The worst part of the finale is Korra's absurdly stupid plan to reveal Amon.

Tarrlok tells her the story, so she goes out to the equalist gathering, and and accuse Amon it with no proof whatsoever. There are so many holes in the logic of this, not least of all that Amon being a bloodbender doesn't make him a hypocrite in any way, and even with him exposed and everything, there is no reason for equalists to abandon him.

That is the moment that I lost all faith in the writers.

[cereal_killerxx]

It feels like I'm one of the only people who loved the show and the finale. =/

[TacticalFox88]

When I read this, I thought my lungs would collapse.

Hilarious!

[AniHawk]

It feels like I'm one of the only people who loved the show and the finale. =/

i did too. i just haven't been replying so much due to work and moving and stuff.

The worst part of the finale is Korra's absurdly stupid plan to reveal Amon. Tarrlok tells her the story, so she goes out to the equalist gathering, and and accuse Amon it with no proof whatsoever. There are so many holes in the logic of this, not least of all that Amon being a bloodbender doesn't make him a hypocrite in any way, and even with him exposed and everything, there is no reason for equalists to abandon him. That is the moment that I lost all faith in the writers.

well he did kinda lie to everyone about how he was removing bending- that it was divine intervention. he created a very fervent opposition to all types of benders, even women and children. of course they would be pissed off he lied to them. and that's not even taking into the account that he was not only bloodbending, but that he was the son of the guy who menaced republic city four decades earlier.

[Gorillaz]

When you think about it, Nick has really mismanaged the Avatar series, not to mention the movie. Its kind of mindblowing.

Im glad im not the only one seeing that. Its like they dont want to put anything into it yet dont want to lose the audience, the movie was the biggest fumble nick done in awhile.

I wouldnt be surprised if there was tension between the creators and nick.

[Fuu]

The worst part of the finale is Korra's absurdly stupid plan to reveal Amon. Tarrlok tells her the story, so she goes out to the equalist gathering, and and accuse Amon it with no proof whatsoever. There are so many holes in the logic of this, not least of all that Amon being a bloodbender doesn't make him a hypocrite in any way, and even with him exposed and everything, there is no reason for equalists to abandon him. That is the moment that I lost all faith in the writers.

[Peagles]

It feels like I'm one of the only people who loved the show and the finale. =/

I loved it and so did all but one of my friends in our little Avatar group. I think the haters on this one are just particularly loud (and repetitive), lol :P

[ZoddGutts]

Have the writers for the show said anything about how rushed the show was and apologized for not writing it better? Really it was just bad and lazy. Using the "it was only 12 episodes it's not their fault!" is a weak excuse. Lot's of good shows have been written in 12 episodes or less with great endings and good character development. It just goes to show that the writers just didn't plan things out well.

[AniHawk]

Have the writers for the show said anything about how rushed the show was and apologized for not writing it better? Really it was just bad and lazy. Using the "it was only 12 episodes it's not their fault!" is a weak excuse. Lot's of good shows have been written in 12 episodes or less with great endings and good character development. It just goes to show that the writers just didn't plan things out well.

not sure why the writers would bend to your perception of reality.

[Evlar]

i did too. i just haven't been replying so much due to work and moving and stuff. well he did kinda lie to everyone about how he was removing bending- that it was divine intervention. he created a very fervent opposition to all types of benders, even women and children. of course they would be pissed off he lied to them. and that's not even taking into the account that he was not only bloodbending, but that he was the son of the guy who menaced republic city four decades earlier.

Right. The principle motivation for the popularity of the Equalists was non-benders' sense of intimidation by benders who abuse their powers. The crime syndicates were used several times through the series as the best example of this.

So, revealing that Amon was the son of one of these crooks would definitely undermine him, if people could be convinced of it.

[Veelk]

well he did kinda lie to everyone about how he was removing bending- that it was divine intervention. he created a very fervent opposition to all types of benders, even women and children. of course they would be pissed off he lied to them. and that's not even taking into the account that he was not only bloodbending, but that he was the son of the guy who menaced republic city four decades earlier.

That's not exactly the point. I mean, that is bad too, and there are several ways amon could have fixed or avoided his situation in the first place:

1. An explanation. Amon needed to convince others of his cause, and he didn't think that he'd be able to do that as a bender. Anyone who doesn't forgive him will be viewed as excessively stubborn. I doubt that anyone joined him for the sole reason because he said the spirits gave him instruction to do so.

2. More lies: "Yeah, I'm a bender, but the spirits really did give me this power and instruction." How would they be able to disprove it? It's not like anyone studied the technique he employs.

3. Dedication: In order to make sure that he was viewed as legitimate, he had a firebender actually burn his face. Or, even better, perform bloodbending on himself by shifting the blood vessels and crap to make it look like he was burned. It'd look as good as the make up, and more permanent as well.

4. Not lie in the beginning: Why was the firebender scarring his face story even necessary? "My family was cut down by a firebender in front my eyes, and when the spirit listened to my call and gave me instruction. Thus, I took up this mask to become a symbol of our revolution."

5. Family: The father and brother thing would be especially easy to explain. Just have him say he hates his family and wants nothing to do with them. He even already took away his brother's bending with no regrets.




But the problem here is Korra's plan. She goes to an equalist rally and exposes herself to accuse Amon of being a bender with no proof whatsoever. Even if the equalists did think it automatically meant Amon didn't really support their cause, she had no way of proving that her accusations were true. Amon's regime only fell because he had the dumb luck to be knocked out of the side where there was water at the bottom, where it washed out his make up. What was Korra going to do if they didn't happen to be near water? Or if he actually had his face burned off? Or if his minions didn't suddenly become awful fighters and captured her? Or if he brought backup when he fought Korra? What if Korra didn't Deus ex machina her way into Airbending? What if Tarrlok made the whole thing up? Or if he simply didn't let her speak in the first place? That is all before Amon gets into the several argument that he can still care about equalizing everyone despite being a bender himself and having lied to them. It's a stupid, stupid plan.

Glorious.

[KidGalactus]

It sort of blows my mind that they don't even try to make money in merchandising. I think ATLA got a couple of action figures (with no Toph or Katara of course) and Korra got... nothing? Not that I'd buy it, but with the ratings these shows pull...

If I remember correctly, Airbender merchandise sold horribly. The ratings for a show don't always translate into success in other product lines.

[EulaCapra]

Oh my god, this topic's activity weeks after the finale only signals doom and gloom. Cheer up, people! You're going to watch the entire series anyway and dammit, you're going to love all of it!

The worst part of the finale is Korra's absurdly stupid plan to reveal Amon. Tarrlok tells her the story, so she goes out to the equalist gathering, and and accuse Amon it with no proof whatsoever. There are so many holes in the logic of this, not least of all that Amon being a bloodbender doesn't make him a hypocrite in any way, and even with him exposed and everything, there is no reason for equalists to abandon him.

True that Korra and Mako were head-fast with trying to reveal Amon without real proof, but I think them trying is valid. How would they have gotten proof anyway that Amon was not who he says he is while the clock was ticking as Republic City is getting trashed and more benders are losing their bending? Making a spectacle in front of thousands of non-benders might not have been super smart, but the accusation casts doubt among them because of how crazy their story sounds and how crazy their accusation is so fleshed out and already has its own backstory that everyone's brains just "clicks" when everyone sees Amon's face paint come off. Them accusing Amon of being a blood-bender (and a really good one at that as his brother Tarrlok can attest to with bloodbending multiple people in daylight) would also invalidate Amon's claims that his family was struck by firebenders being a helpless bunch of non-benders.

That is the moment that I lost all faith in the writers.

Put the gun down, son!

[KidGalactus]

Oh my god, this topic's activity weeks after the finale only signals doom and gloom. Cheer up, people! You're going to watch the entire series anyway and dammit, you're going to love all of it! True that Korra and Mako were head-fast with trying to reveal Amon without real proof, but I think them trying is valid. How would they have gotten proof anyway that Amon was not who he says he is while the clock was ticking as Republic City is getting trashed and more benders are losing their bending? Making a spectacle in front of thousands of non-benders might not have been super smart, but the accusation casts doubt among them because of how crazy their story sounds and how crazy their accusation is so fleshed out and already has its own backstory that everyone's brains just "clicks" when everyone sees Amon's face paint come off. Them accusing Amon of being a blood-bender (and a really good one at that as his brother Tarrlok can attest to with bloodbending multiple people in daylight) would also invalidate Amon's claims that his family was struck by firebenders being a helpless bunch of non-benders. Put the gun down, son!

I like you, kid.

You, I like.

[Veelk]

True that Korra and Mako were head-fast with trying to reveal Amon without real proof, but I think them trying is valid. How would they have gotten proof anyway that Amon was not who he says he is while the clock was ticking as Republic City is getting trashed and more benders are losing their bending? Making a spectacle in front of thousands of non-benders might not have been super smart, but the accusation casts doubt among them because of how crazy their story sounds and how crazy their accusation is so fleshed out and already has its own backstory that everyone's brains just "clicks" when everyone sees Amon's face paint come off. Them accusing Amon of being a blood-bender (and a really good one at that as his brother Tarrlok can attest to with bloodbending multiple people in daylight) would also invalidate Amon's claims that his family was struck by firebenders being a helpless bunch of non-benders.

Then they should have rallied back with Bolin or Asami or something. If casting doubts through baseless accusations is the best thing that could do to hurt amon, to the point where they risk being captured by his rallyy, then they should have gone for the real heavy hitters.

"Amon is secretly a rapist and a pedophile! He plans to rule the world with the power that the spirits gave him! He talks loudly in the theater and reads Twilight!"

[AniHawk]

That's not exactly the point. I mean, that is bad too, and there are several ways amon could have fixed or avoided his situation in the first place: 1. An explanation. Amon needed to convince others of his cause, and he didn't think that he'd be able to do that as a bender. Anyone who doesn't forgive him will be viewed as excessively stubborn. I doubt that anyone joined him for the sole reason because he said the spirits gave him instruction to do so. 2. More lies: "Yeah, I'm a bender, but the spirits really did give me this power and instruction." How would they be able to disprove it? It's not like anyone studied the technique he employs.

there would rightfully be an immense amount of doubt cast upon a guy who was all, 'no look- i'm actually a good bender- i'm gonna take away all bending!'

not to mention it sends a mixed message. wait, so there are good benders and bad benders? bending is the solution to inequality among benders and non benders? it's easier to get a movement to agree on a more black and white situation.

3. Dedication: In order to make sure that he was viewed as legitimate, he had a firebender actually burn his face. Or, even better, perform bloodbending on himself by shifting the blood vessels and crap to make it look like he was burned. It'd look as good as the make up, and more permanent as well.

i think this was so he would be able to hide in plain sight. amon could get around in public if need be if his face wasn't actually scarred, but it made sense to have makeup on in the event his mask was removed or anyone were to cast doubt on his story.

4. Not lie in the beginning: Why was the firebender scarring his face story even necessary? "My family was cut down by a firebender in front my eyes, and when the spirit listened to my call and gave me instruction. Thus, I took up this mask to become a symbol of our revolution."

the fire nation waged a 100-year war against the entire world, conquered the earth nation, and committed genocide. so there's probably a few people who are not so keen on firebenders. this, plus we know through other examples that firebenders actually do seem to have a chip on their shoulders, given what happened to the parents of mako and bolin.

it gains amon sympathy and gives the symbol a reason to be there.

5. Family: The father and brother thing would be especially easy to explain. Just have him say he hates his family and wants nothing to do with them.

at the start of the revolution, tarrlok was one of the council members. it would look like a turf war between brothers or jealousy (plus, tarrlok hadn't actually done anything that could be considered an abuse of power at the time of 'the rally').

He even already took away his brother's bending with no regrets.

well he did apologize for that, i think. so maybe not no regrets.

But the problem here is Korra's plan. She goes to an equalist rally and exposes herself to accuse Amon of being a bender with no proof whatsoever. Even if the equalists did think it automatically meant Amon didn't really support their cause, she had no way of proving that her accusations were true. Amon's regime only fell because he had the dumb luck to be knocked out of the side where there was water at the bottom, where it washed out his make up. What was Korra going to do if they didn't happen to be near water? Or if he actually had his face burned off? Or if his minions didn't suddenly become awful fighters and captured her? Or if he brought backup when he fought Korra? What if Korra didn't Deus ex machina her way into Airbending? Or if he simply didn't let her speak in the first place?

going in without evidence was dumb, but korra was shown to be incredibly impulsive and reactionary throughout the entire show.

[Veelk]

there would rightfully be an immense amount of doubt cast upon a guy who was all, 'no look- i'm actually a good bender- i'm gonna take away all bending!' not to mention it sends a mixed message. wait, so there are good benders and bad benders? bending is the solution to inequality among benders and non benders? it's easier to get a movement to agree on a more black and white situation.

You got several aspects of that wrong.

1. Bending is considered bad, not benders themselves. That's why they don't kill the people who they capture.

2. He is a bender but he could just as easily say that taking away bending is a power he got from a spirit, like in his story. Bending is still considered evil, and his argument works.

3. I don't think there would be many who would care that he is bending to suppress bending. Bending is bad because it is easy to abuse. They don't care about benders who don't do that, but they want bending gone because there are too many that do. Amon is using bending the right way, in their eyes, to take it away forever. It reminds me of that King who saw that people were happiest in a democracy, so he used his powers as a monarch to instate democracy and remove himself from the position of King. Accusing amon of being a bending supporter would be like people accusing that king of still believing a monarchy is the best way to govern because he used his powers as a monarch to instill democracy.

i think this was so he would be able to hide in plain sight. amon could get around in public if need be if his face wasn't actually scarred, but it made sense to have makeup on in the event his mask was removed or anyone were to cast doubt on his story.

It's never shown a single time that Amon needs or wants to move around in plain sight. And even if he did, his level of control over bloodbending allows him instant face surgery if he wants it. And even if he can't do that, he has a MASK and revealed his face to no one before the finale. He could have moved around around without anyone knowing even if he didn't have that scar. All he needed to do was take off the mask.

the fire nation waged a 100-year war against the entire world, conquered the earth nation, and committed genocide. so there's probably a few people who are not so keen on firebenders. this, plus we know through other examples that firebenders actually do seem to have a chip on their shoulders, given what happened to the parents of mako and bolin. it gains amon sympathy and gives the symbol a reason to be there.

I can see some advantages to it as a way of gaining sympathy. That doesn't make it necessary, and in the end, too big a risk.

at the start of the revolution, tarrlok was one of the council members. it would look like a turf war between brothers or jealousy (plus, tarrlok hadn't actually done anything that could be considered an abuse of power at the time of 'the rally').

No, it wouldn't. Not so long as he declared his intentions clearly. Yeah, some people may see it that way despite that, but they could just as easily see it as Amon just amassing power for the sake of his own power. His intentions would not be in any more doubt that they are now.

well he did apologize for that, i think. so maybe not no regrets.

Debatable, but beside the point. He could have still used it as an arguing point.

going in without evidence was dumb, but korra was shown to be incredibly impulsive and reactionary throughout the entire show.

The show would have us believe that she grew out of that and that this was a legitimate plan, especially given Mako, the cool headed smart guy, went along with it.

[Evlar]

When Korra decides to challenge Amon, she doesn't even know about his blood bending yet. She doesn't know about the rally either. In her own words she does it because "her gut" was telling her to. Others thought it was a bad idea, but General Iroh acquiesced because "my grandfather would trust the Avatar's instincts, and so shall I."

And Korra's instincts were right. If she hadn't gone she would not have learned the truth about Amon from Tarrlock. If she hadn't gone she wouldn't have been there to stop Amon from sealing all of the existing Airbenders. It was the right decision, though it was not rational.

This is an old theme of the show. Aang acted similarly at times. The swamp episode is a good example.

[Veelk]

This is an old theme of the show. Aang acted similarly at times. The swamp episode is a good example.

No, Aang just couldn't explain it, but he was being pulled by the spirit of the tree. That's not irrational, just spiritual. Besides, Aang acquiesced to not going when Katara and Sokka pointed out that it wasn't rational.

I seriously doubt that Korra had anything telling her jack shit. And that doesn't change that simply knowing the truth should not have gotten her anywhere either.

[Evlar]

No, Aang just couldn't explain it, but he was being pulled by the spirit of the swamp. That's not irrational, just spiritual. Besides, Aang acquiesced to not going when Katara and Sokka pointed out that it wasn't rational. I seriously doubt that Korra had anything telling her jack shit. And that doesn't change that simply knowing the truth should not have gotten her anywhere either.

I would call this a double standard. Iroh names it for what it is: the Avatar's instincts. As I point out, they were not wrong.

[AniHawk]

You got several aspects of that wrong. 1. Bending is considered bad, not benders themselves. That's why they don't kill the people who they capture. 2. He is a bender but he could just as easily say that taking away bending is a power he got from a spirit, like in his story. Bending is still considered evil, and his argument works. 3. I don't think there would be many who would care that he is bending to suppress bending. Bending is bad because it is easy to abuse. They don't care about benders who don't do that, but they want bending gone because there are too many that do. Amon is using bending the right way, to take it away forever. It reminds me of that King who saw that people were happiest in a democracy, so he used his powers as a monarch to instate democracy and remove himself from the position of King.

well they don't kill the people they capture because it's a show on nickelodeon.

as for your second point, uh, still a mixed message there. how can people trust that he won't just turn around and oppress them after he has already accused other benders of oppressing people with bending? and what would happen if tarrlok became directly involved and outed the guy as a bloodbender (especially since he knew it was bloodbending that was sealing his own power).

who's to say the lieutenant or someone like him wouldn't simply overthrow him immediately or at the end of amon's endgame, saying there needed to be someone who wouldn't abuse their powers (unlike the one guy who could still bend and might be the most powerful man in the world)?

It's never shown a single time that Amon needs or wants to move around in plain sight. And even if he did, his level of control over bloodbending allows him instant face surgery if he wants it.

this seems to be a mighty impressive thing you are assuming of something never shown or hinted at in this show (or the previous one).

And even if he can't do that, he has a MASK and revealed his face to no one before the finale. He could have moved around around without anyone knowing even if he didn't have that scar. All he needed to do was take off the mask.

well my suggestion is that it was makeup because he had already been moving around without the fake scar. the fake scar was there in the event his mask was removed somehow as amon.

I can see some advantages to it as a way of gaining sympathy. That doesn't make it necessary, and in the end, too big a risk.

it's not that big a risk at all. who's going to verify his story? people buy into confirmation bias all the time.

No, it wouldn't. Not so long as he declared his intentions clearly. Yeah, some people may see it that way despite that, but they could just as easily see it as Amon just amassing power for the sake of his own power. His intentions would not be in any more doubt that they are now.

so noatak would be this plucky up-and-coming revolutionary who would be caught by the police really fast because he wasn't wearing a mask or maybe he wouldn't because he would just bloodbend them but that won't scare the mass populace who he was trying to win over even though he displays powers even beyond his father.

or maybe noatak would be amon and have a mask and say, hey guys, i'm a bloodbender, and tarrlok is really bad so don't listen to him and then tarrlok, who's been there for years would be all, holy shit my brother is fucking powerful we have to make sure he doesn't hurt anyone with his insane psychic powers and the revolution dies there.

or maybe noatak would be amon and have a mask and say, i was a bender and i gained this power from the spirits and you should listen to me because i can remove bending but i won't use my bending against you. and then it's just kind of a murky message without any emotional resonance that people can latch onto and makes him immediately distrustful because of his mask and his bending powers.

or amon could just bs some story about spirits granting him power and someone burning his face, keep his actual brother in the dark to his true identity, wear a mask as a symbol that people could trust, and still bloodbend the shit out of everyone. and he still gets to be true to his ideals.

The show would have us believe that she grew out of that and that this was a legitimate plan, especially given Mako, the cool headed smart guy, went along with it.

even though it was an impulsive decision, it was a good time to at least try and expose him. amon wouldn't have had a good reason not to remove his mask once confronted, and it would have actually cast doubt on him. the big blowback from their plan was that amon was already a step ahead, and had the scar makeup on just in case of someone doubting him.

[Veelk]

I would call this a double standard. Iroh names it for what it is: the Avatar's instincts. As I point out, they were not wrong.

Uh...no, the show explicitly explains what was pulling Aang to the swamp. Korra never gets a justification for her gut feeling at all.

[Evlar]

Uh...no, the show explicitly explains what was pulling Aang to the swamp. Korra never gets a justification for her gut feeling at all.

Iroh names a justification for it ten seconds after she says it.

[Jacob]

Iroh names a justification for it ten seconds after she says it.

When Aang behaves "irrationally" as he did in the swamp episode it's for very specific spiritual reasons, usually because of his proximity to a particularly spiritual entity. Korra, on the other hand, is repeatedly stated to be out of touch with her spiritual side and wasn't in a spiritual environment at all. There's nothing to suggest that Iroh is perceiving any sort of deeper spiritual meaning. You can point out that her instincts were correct, but that's due to writer's fiat.

[Veelk]

well they don't kill the people they capture because it's a show on nickelodeon.

That is a bullshit excuse. Partially true, but while that may be why they set up the conflict the way they did, that's not why Amon does not kill them. You can only refer to this excuse if there is no other possible reason for it to happen (like the fire nation capturing the waterbenders and keeping them alive despite being a great danger to everyone)

as for your second point, uh, still a mixed message there. how can people trust that he won't just turn around and oppress them after he has already accused other benders of oppressing people with bending? and what would happen if tarrlok became directly involved and outed the guy as a bloodbender (especially since he knew it was bloodbending that was sealing his own power).

Because he can't? Even if he is the last bender left, he'd literally be on his own. Against the world. Even Amon would fall to that.

And it wouldn't have any more impact that Korra doing it.

who's to say the lieutenant or someone like him wouldn't simply overthrow him immediately or at the end of amon's endgame, saying there needed to be someone who wouldn't abuse their powers (unlike the one guy who could still bend and might be the most powerful man in the world)?

That would be idiotic of the Lieutenant, because Amon has shown no sign of abusing his powers. If he is going to kill amon for that reason, he should kill him as well because he is an exceptionally powerful fighter even without bloodbending, and he could go abuse that too.

this seems to be a mighty impressive thing you are assuming of something never shown or hinted at in this show (or the previous one).

It's just a logical consequence of his abilities. He can bend blood, he should be able to do that to his face. It'd be like saying we can't presume that waterbender make an ice sculpture just because we've never seen it happen, even though we see that they can move water and freeze it at will.

well my suggestion is that it was makeup because he had already been moving around without the fake scar. the fake scar was there in the event his mask was removed somehow as amon.

Again, you have no basis to suggest why Amon would need to move around in public.

it's not that big a risk at all. who's going to verify his story? people buy into confirmation bias all the time.

Solution: Make a less falsifiable story. Seriously just have him say firebenders killed his family without scarring him. Same sympathy. It is risky because this way people could notice it's make up somehow, which is what happened.

so noatak would be this plucky up-and-coming revolutionary who would be caught by the police really fast because he wasn't wearing a mask or maybe he wouldn't because he would just bloodbend them but that won't scare the mass populace who he was trying to win over even though he displays powers even beyond his father. or maybe noatak would be amon and have a mask and say, hey guys, i'm a bloodbender, and tarrlok is really bad so don't listen to him and then tarrlok, who's been there for years would be all, holy shit my brother is fucking powerful we have to make sure he doesn't hurt anyone with his insane psychic powers and the revolution dies there. or maybe noatak would be amon and have a mask and say, i was a bender and i gained this power from the spirits and you should listen to me because i can remove bending but i won't use my bending against you. and then it's just kind of a murky message without any emotional resonance that people can latch onto and makes him immediately distrustful because of his mask and his bending powers. or amon could just bs some story about spirits granting him power and someone burning his face, keep his actual brother in the dark to his true identity, wear a mask as a symbol that people could trust, and still bloodbend the shit out of everyone.

Now your just rambling. Your going out of your way to presume that people will distrust him for any possible reason they can think of, even when he shows that his actions support what he declares. If your going to presume that everything that can go wrong, will go wrong, then what amon did do is just as stupid because they could still distrust him (presume that he is lying about his past because he won't let people closely examine his face, looks sinister), out for power for himself (obvious), an inherently harmful force (benders do a lot for society), and his facade could break in any number of ways (which it did. God, fucking Tahno could have the one who destroyed his entire regime by just getting a lucky shot in with his waterbending.)

No, all Amon needed to do was declare his intentions and then follow through on them. Keep the mask, strip bending from people, just write it off as spirit powers or something, and don't explain himself further. Someone accuses him of being a bloodbender? Proof plz. And even if he somehow exposes himself, that does not change the fact that he has been nothing but supportive of the equalist cause, so while they may be skeptical, there is no reason he should be overthrown completely.

even though it was an impulsive decision, it was a good time to at least try and expose him. amon wouldn't have had a good reason not to remove his mask once confronted, and it would have actually cast doubt on him. the big blowback from their plan was that amon was already a step ahead, and had the scar makeup on just in case of someone doubting him.

He didn't have a good reason to remove his mask regardless. He could have just as easily said "No, I'm not a waterbender." and left it at that. Like I said, if baseless accusations are the best they can do, they should have come up with something better, like him being a pedophile or something.

[Evlar]

When Aang behaves "irrationally" as he did in the swamp episode it's for very specific spiritual reasons, usually because of his proximity to a particularly spiritual entity. Korra, on the other hand, is repeatedly stated to be out of touch with her spiritual side and wasn't in a spiritual environment at all. There's nothing to suggest that Iroh is perceiving any sort of deeper spiritual meaning. You can point out that her instincts were correct, but that's due to writer's fiat.

They say that before she "gets through to Aang" (her words) and sees the entirety of his memories about Yakone. The scene in question is after that.

Why continue to believe that she can't access her spiritual side when she can remember events clearly from past lives? She's obviously growing spiritually.

[Veelk]

They say that before she "gets through to Aang" (her words) and sees the entirety of his memories about Yakone. The scene in question is after that. Why continue to believe that she can't access her spiritual side when she can remember events clearly from past lives? She's obviously growing spiritually.

Because there is no way that Aang would know that Tarrlok would tell the story or that he was even there. It couldn't have been Aang because he only knows about Yakone.

[Evlar]

Because there is no way that Aang would know that Tarrlok would tell the story or that he was even there. It couldn't have been Aang because he only knows about Yakone.

Your comment rests on assumptions about the limits of the Avatar's gifts which I don't share. I'm willing to accept that Korra could receive spiritual guidance leading her to Tarrlock, then Amon, in time to save the Airbenders. I think this kind of guidance about future events is well supported from events in ATLA.

[Gorillaz]

I thought the theme of the show was "The last Avatar caused the problems for the current avatar".

Roku and Ozai
Aang and Yakone

[Veelk]

Your comment rests on assumptions about the limits of the Avatar's gifts which I don't share. I'm willing to accept that Korra could receive spiritual guidance leading her to Tarrlock, then Amon, in time to save the Airbenders. I think this kind of guidance about future events is well supported from events in ATLA.

The avatar spirit doesn't work like that. There is only 1 avatar spirit, and that is within Korra now. That avatar spirit carries the memories and experiences and knowledge of all the avatars before Korra, but that doesn't make it omniscient. Aang can't have known about Tarrlok being there or suddenly willing to talk so long as Korra has no way of geting that information. If another spirit had told Korra something like that, like how the tree told Aang that Toph would be his teacher, then that'd be okay, but that's not what happened. Sorry, but 'a spirit did it' is not a valid excuse here by anything that the show has presented about how the avatar spirit works.

[AniHawk]

That is a bullshit excuse. Partially true, but while that may be why they set up the conflict the way they did, that's not why Amon does not kill them. You can only refer to this excuse if there is no other possible reason for it to happen (like the fire nation capturing the waterbenders and keeping them alive despite being a great danger to everyone)

well the other reason to be that amon is showing he won't kill using his powers, unlike the people in his story (that others might relate to).

That would be idiotic of the Lieutenant, because Amon has shown no sign of abusing his powers. If he is going to kill amon for that reason, he should kill him as well because he is an exceptionally powerful fighter even without bloodbending, and he could go abuse that too.

it was heavily hinted that he's an exceptionally powerful fighter because of his bloodbending.

It's just a logical consequence of his abilities. He can bend blood, he should be able to do that to his face. It'd be like saying we can't presume that waterbender make an ice sculpture just because we've never seen it happen, even though we see that they can move water and freeze it at will.

there's also the whole thing where a bloodbender should just be able to remove blood from people and kill them instantly, yet yakone spent his time trying to crumple aang into a pile of bones instead. there's nothing to suggest that a bloodbender has the finesse to do what you suggest without extreme consequence.

Again, you have no basis to suggest why Amon would need to move around in public.

suppose he needed to make a quick getaway, for whatever reason- he would be able to ditch his amon outfit and then blend into the crowd with ease. this is assuming a waterbender would be able to find a water source to remove a fake scar with water as well. meanwhile, anyone after him would be looking for the guy with the scar on his face who isn't a waterbender.

there's also other things, like buying groceries or visiting a car factory, or blending into the officer unit at the commissioner's funeral with the intention of shooting the mayor before batman notices you.

Solution: Make a less falsifiable story. Seriously just have him say firebenders killed his family without scarring him. Same sympathy. It is risky because this way people could notice it's make up somehow, which is what happened.

but then why the mask? in his story, the mask makes sense, because he's ashamed to show his scarred face (awwwww! poor amon!) but now he can turn it into a strength. people see it as a way to turn their own pain into a strength and rally behind it. if it's the same story except no scarring, plus the mask, people would wonder what he's hiding- not his most fervent supporters, but it would undermine the process of gathering more.

Now your just rambling.

i do that.

Your going out of your way to presume that people will distrust him for any possible reason they can think of, even when he shows that his actions support what he declares. If your going to presume that everything that can go wrong, will go wrong, then what amon did do is just as stupid because they could still distrust him (presume that he is lying about his past because he won't let people closely examine his face, looks sinister), out for power for himself (obvious), an inherently harmful force (benders do a lot for society), and his facade could break in any number of ways (which it did. God, fucking Tahno could have the one who destroyed his entire regime by just getting a lucky shot in with his waterbending.)

the difference is, there's a lot more that could go wrong with a really murky, muddled plan, like the several you have suggested, and only one that went wrong with the plan he actually went with (oh shit- airbending but how oh god i'm drowning).

but to say i'm going out of my way to find a way to make people distrust him isn't really true. that was more of exactly what i was thinking as i was typing each scenario.

anyway, the thing that really failed in korra was the council. they met amon with extreme force, and it lost them in the end. they needed a publicity campaign to combat amon's charisma, and they just went with tarrlok to go straight to murdertown. i don't think we're exactly supposed to be cheering korra and the task force on when they start drowning civilians in the training facility.

And even if he somehow exposes himself, that does not change the fact that he has been nothing but supportive of the equalist cause, so while they may be skeptical, there is no reason he should be overthrown completely.

well that's what happened. he accidentally exposed himself and the people hated him for being a hypocrite. this probably doesn't silence the restlessness between benders and nonbenders, but it does effectively end his ability to lead the group.

He didn't have a good reason to remove his mask regardless. He could have just as easily said "No, I'm not a waterbender." and left it at that. Like I said, if baseless accusations are the best they can do,

in addition to unequivocally proving the avatar wrong, it also makes her really look like a jackass for making the guy with a hideous scar reveal himself during his proudest moment. it turns even more distrust of the avatar into hatred.

they should have come up with something better, like him being a pedophile or something.

remember when i said this was a show on nickelodeon.

[Veelk]

well the other reason to be that amon is showing he won't kill using his powers, unlike the people in his story (that others might relate to).

The reason is that he maintains that bending is evil, not benders.

it was heavily hinted that he's an exceptionally powerful fighter because of his bloodbending.

Your missing the point. Amon is not showing any signs of abusing his power. If simply being powerful is too big a risk, then Lieutenent should have dropped him just because he saw that he wsa an exceptionally powerful fighter, whatever the reason.

there's also the whole thing where a bloodbender should just be able to remove blood from people and kill them instantly, yet yakone spent his time trying to crumple aang into a pile of bones instead. there's nothing to suggest that a bloodbender has the finesse to do what you suggest without extreme consequence.

Controlling blood in order to kill a person is evidently harder than just moving them around, but obviously possible. So there is no reason that Amon should not be able to do it.

suppose he needed to make a quick getaway, for whatever reason- he would be able to ditch his amon outfit and then blend into the crowd with ease. this is assuming a waterbender would be able to find a water source to remove a fake scar with water as well. meanwhile, anyone after him would be looking for the guy with the scar on his face who isn't a waterbender.

Everywhere the dude goes, it's with a small army of Chiblockers. Even in the event that he did need to get away, whoever is going after him would have bigger problems than looking for a face.

there's also other things, like buying groceries or visiting a car factory, or blending into the officer unit at the commissioner's funeral with the intention of shooting the mayor before batman notices you.

Yes, god forbid that Amon doesn't send his manservants to go for all these things.

Also, if Joker can effectively hide in the crowd with his scars just because he dropped his make up, Amon can hide in a crowd with a scar on his face without his mask.

but then why the mask? in his story, the mask makes sense, because he's ashamed to show his scarred face (awwwww! poor amon!) but now he can turn it into a strength. people see it as a way to turn their own pain into a strength and rally behind it. if it's the same story except no scarring, plus the mask, people would wonder what he's hiding- not his most fervent supporters, but it would undermine the process of gathering more.

Because its' a symbol? Something everyone can unite upon? Have it represent the spirit that he supposedly came into contract with or something. It's not that damn hard to justify using a mask.

the difference is, there's a lot more that could go wrong with a really murky, muddled plan, like the several you have suggested, and only one that went wrong with the plan he actually went with (oh shit- airbending but how oh god i'm drowning). but to say i'm going out of my way to find a way to make people distrust him isn't really true. that was more of exactly what i was thinking as i was typing each scenario.

Except it didn't have to be airbending. It could have been ANYONE who got in a lucky shot, especially if he is already a waterbender and makes his makeup run. It literally could have rained and the mask might have fallen off due to lose binding and boom, regime falls. This is somehow a well put together plan?

Relying on someone finding out your a liar because of a wardrobe malfunction is far more risky that creating a non-falsifiable story and forgoing that extra bit of sympathy. Or, better yet, just being honest and upfront with your intentions. I seriously doubt that anyone is going to give a flying fuck that Amon is a bloodbending son of yakone when all he's ever doing is taking away bending to further the equalist cause. People trust Fire Lord Zuko, and look at all the shit HIS family pulled. Why? Because Zuko proved himself to be different by acting different as Fire Lord.

But I think the best thing Amon could have done is not say anything about his own past. People obviously already trusted him enough to gather for that equalist meeting when he first reveals his powers in huge numbers. If he wants to use pathos, then he could have brought up any number of incidents that really happened to different people. If he absolutely needed to have a sympathetic backstory, make one up that no one can disprove by something as simple as some asshole spilling his drink on him when he doesn't have his mask on.

anyway, the thing that really failed in korra was the council. they met amon with extreme force, and it lost them in the end. they needed a publicity campaign to combat amon's charisma, and they just went with tarrlok to go straight to murdertown. i don't think we're exactly supposed to be cheering korra and the task force on when they start drowning civilians in the training facility.

yeah, this sucked too.

well that's what happened. he accidentally exposed himself and the people hated him for being a hypocrite. this probably doesn't silence the restlessness between benders and nonbenders, but it does effectively end his ability to lead the group.

He's not a hypocrite though! I mean, I think he is, but it's not because he is a bender or anything. I just know his past and I think he was just out for power because of the way he was raised. But no one besides Korra and Mako know about that. And even they, like the audience, can only theorize. But the public? They have no reason to think that Amon didn't completely support the equalist campaign. Being a bender doesn't make him a hypocrite.

in addition to unequivocally proving the avatar wrong, it also makes her really look like a jackass for making the guy with a hideous scar reveal himself during his proudest moment. it turns even more distrust of the avatar into hatred.

Unless your suggesting bloodbenders are unable to be burned somehow, it doesn't prove anything. At all. Anyone who isn't an idiot would see through that.

remember when i said this was a show on nickelodeon.

So say something else equally bad. He is just exploiting the people's sense of weakness to gain power, for example. Equally baseless, but plausible, so obviously that will turn them against amon *eye roll*.

Look, my point is not that there were more effective ways of doing this plan. The plan is that the plan is inherently stupid. It wasn't going to work no matter what korra said because she had no proof.


The problem is that the way the show resolves the amon conflict is so layered with issues, getting bogged down in details like the way we're doing is kind of pointless. The logic the public uses to turn against Amon is stupid. The way Korra 'exposes' amon is in the end is stupid. The way amon doesn't defend his actions is stupid. The way that the chiblockers are unable to stop Korra from is stupid. The way korra approached this in the first place is stupid. See what I mean? Layers and layers of stupidity. We're getting caught up in the argument whether the the way Amon hid himself is dumb, but even if I grant you that it isn't, Korra is still dumb for the way she approached it and the public is still dumb for the way they take Amon's true identity, and the way the events played out between those events is dumb. There is no way we can say that the finale wasn't dumb unless you can somehow justify the actions of ALL these people, which isn't really possible. Everyone in the finale was operating on stupidity.

[AniHawk]

The reason is that he maintains that bending is evil, not benders.

you know that hate the sin, not the sinner always actually means, hate the sinner, right?

Your missing the point. Amon is not showing any signs of abusing his power. If simply being powerful is too big a risk, then Lieutenent should have dropped him just because he saw that he wsa an exceptionally powerful fighter, whatever the reason.

being a really good fighter isn't going to make the entire world afraid of you. having the only superpower in the world might, though.

Controlling blood in order to kill a person is evidently harder than just moving them around, but obviously possible. So there is no reason that Amon should not be able to do it.

again, this is assuming a power of amon that he evidently didn't have.

Everywhere the dude goes, it's with a small army of Chiblockers. Even in the event that he did need to get away, whoever is going after him would have bigger problems than looking for a face.

it's a contingency plan, of course, in case everything else that can go wrong, goes wrong.

Yes, god forbid that Amon doesn't send his manservants to go for all these things. Also, if Joker can effectively hide in the crowd with his scars just because he dropped his make up, Amon can hide in a crowd with a scar on his face without his mask.

but why didn't korra just waterbend the steam back into the ground instead of letting batman fight ra's al ghul on the doom train!?

Because its' a symbol? Something everyone can unite upon? Have it represent the spirit that he supposedly came into contract with or something. It's not that damn hard to justify using a mask.

saying the spirits left him a mask to represent equality- now that's the first thing you suggested that could have worked extremely well.

Except it didn't have to be airbending. It could have been ANYONE who got in a lucky shot, especially if he is already a waterbender and makes his makeup run. It literally could have rained and the mask might have fallen off due to lose binding and boom, regime falls. This is somehow a well put together plan?

so you're suggesting that amon could easily bloodbend the vessels inside his own face, but not subtly waterbend raining down on top of it.

I seriously doubt that anyone is going to give a flying fuck that Amon is a bloodbending son of yakone when all he's ever doing is taking away bending to further the equalist cause.

if we took the scene where he zapped zolt's bending, and put it in the context of 'he's a bloodbender and he's bloodbending powers away' then you go from, specifically taking bending away to potentially doing anything to limit anyone's abilities. people don't know whatever spiritual debending powers he had, but they were definitely debending powers and just those only.

people definitely know what bloodbending is and capable of. it wouldn't be just the benders who would fear him.

yeah, this sucked too.

it sucked on purpose though, and not too far removed from some real-life examples from very recent history.

He's not a hypocrite though! I mean, I think he is, but it's not because he is a bender or anything. I just know his past and I think he was just out for power because of the way he was raised. But no one besides Korra and Mako know about that. And even they, like the audience, can only theorize. But the public? They have no reason to think that Amon didn't completely support the equalist campaign. Being a bender doesn't make him a hypocrite.

i think amon truly wanted equality for all, but the way he whipped up the crowd to the point they were okay with making an entire race of benders go extinct (by doing it to boys and girls), makes me think they really, really didn't like benders at that point.

Unless your suggesting bloodbenders are unable to be burned somehow, it doesn't prove anything. At all.

the whole point was korra was saying his entire story about his childhood and being burned was a lie, and then he went out and gave physical proof to the contrary.

So say something else equally bad. He is just exploiting the people's sense of weakness to gain power, for example. Equally baseless, but plausible, so obviously that will turn them against amon *eye roll*. Look, my point is not that there were more effective ways of doing this plan. The plan is that the plan is inherently stupid. It wasn't going to work no matter what korra said unless she had proof. The problem is that the way the show resolves the amon conflict is so layered with issues, getting bogged down in details like the way we're doing is kind of pointless. The logic the public uses to turn against Amon is stupid. The way Korra 'exposes' amon is in the end is stupid. The way amon doesn't defend his actions is stupid. The way that the chiblockers are unable to stop Korra from is stupid. The way korra approached this in the first place is stupid. See what I mean? Layers and layers of stupidity. We're getting caught up in the argument whether the the way Amon hid himself is dumb, but even if I grant you that it isn't, Korra is still dumb for the way she approached it and the public is still dumb for the way they take Amon's true identity, and the way the events played out between those events is dumb. There is no way we can say that the finale wasn't dumb unless you can somehow justify the actions of ALL these people, which you really can't. Everyone in the show was operating on faulty logic.

well i don't think it was dumb, but i also think i can reasonably justify the actions of people who are under stress and in those specific situations.

i also think that the crowd's backlash agains amon's true identity was pretty fucking spot-on. the guy had gone so far to commit to his lie to alter his actual appearance. it's not like the crowd said, 'oh yay! bending is great! fuck you amon!' they were more like 'fuck you amon! you fucking bender! you probably had some hidden scheme you dirty motherfucker!' he made them distrustful and hateful of benders and in turn they were distrustful of him, especially in light of his lies.

[Veelk]

you know that hate the sin, not the sinner always actually means, hate the sinner, right?

Of course, but it's analogous to having guns. Anti-gun people don't think that all gun owners are maniacs, but they think it's too dangerous for ordinary people to have them, so they'd rather not have the option to get guns in the first place rather than kill every gun owner.

being a really good fighter isn't going to make the entire world afraid of you. having the only superpower in the world might, though.

Neither is being one single bloodbender. Even the most powerful person on the planet, the Avatar, can be taken down if the whole world turns against him.

again, this is assuming a power of amon that he evidently didn't have.

I do not know how this is not getting through to you. For the thousandth time, this is not a some new ability I'm suggesting. This is a logical extension of bloodbending. There is no reason he should not be able to do it, especially given he experimented with it enough that he can block others bending using it.

it's a contingency plan, of course, in case everything else that can go wrong, goes wrong.

Your not really presenting an argument for why amon needs a clean face other than he might need on in very extraneous circumstances. Should he start carrying garlic around too, in case of vampires?

saying the spirits left him a mask to represent equality- now that's the first thing you suggested that could have worked extremely well.

You keep at this like the mask needs a justification of some kind. It doesn't. He could give no justification for it whatsoever, and I don't think anyone would have cared that much.

so you're suggesting that amon could easily bloodbend the vessels inside his own face, but not subtly waterbend raining down on top of it.

Well, besides that that would require constant concentration on it and that I can't see how it wouldn't be obvious to anyone watching that he is waterbending the rain out of his face, yeah, I guess.

if we took the scene where he zapped zolt's bending, and put it in the context of 'he's a bloodbender and he's bloodbending powers away' then you go from, specifically taking bending away to potentially doing anything to limit anyone's abilities. people don't know whatever spiritual debending powers he had, but they were definitely debending powers and just those only. people definitely know what bloodbending is and capable of. it wouldn't be just the benders who would fear him.

Listen to me very carefully

People don't care about benders who do not abuse their power.

It's the ones that do that make it difficult to live.

If Amon is not abusing his power and is in fact making their lives better by taking away the powers of those that to do, no one in their right mind would be more than weary of him

At best, your presuming that people will have frantic paranoia about Amon. Some, yes, I could believe, but everyone? And just because it can happen doesn't mean it's any less stupid.

So even if things work out like you say they would, with Amon being persecuted over being a blood bender despite his actions helping the people he is supporting would make the citizens of republic city absurdly stupid.

it sucked on purpose though, and not too far removed from some real-life examples from very recent history.

Doesn't make it any less dumb.

i think amon truly wanted equality for all, but the way he whipped up the crowd to the point they were okay with making an entire race of benders go extinct (by doing it to boys and girls), makes me think they really, really didn't like benders at that point.

Doesn't matter. It doesn't make him a hypocrite or any less devoted to the cause.

the whole point was korra was saying his entire story about his childhood and being burned was a lie, and then he went out and gave physical proof to the contrary.

That doesn't negate the fact that it proves nothing at all. I am aware what the logic the show wants me to follow. I'm saying how fucking dumb it is.

well i don't think it was dumb, but i also think i can reasonably justify the actions of people who are under stress and in those specific situations. i also think that the crowd's backlash agains amon's true identity was pretty fucking spot-on. the guy had gone so far to commit to his lie to alter his actual appearance. it's not like the crowd said, 'oh yay! bending is great! fuck you amon!' they were more like 'fuck you amon! you fucking bender! you probably had some hidden scheme you dirty motherfucker!' he made them distrustful and hateful of benders and in turn they were distrustful of him, especially in light of his lies.

Again, fucking stupid of them. They are mental deficients that have no concept of how logic works if that is what EVERYONE presumed and would not listen to any defense Amon made. They have a right to be hurt by the fact that he lied to them, but there are so many ways for amon to defend his position here that it is ridiculous that his regime would fall because of something like that.

Korra may as well have said that amon is a sissy because he sleeps with teddy bears. She could have snatched one from a store or something and said she found it on his bed side. People would have been in despair over how their previously manly Amon has been revealed ot be a wussy that needs something to cuddle with to sleep. Disillusioned, they riot, and Amon's regime dies. Hey, it's realistic, isn't it? People have fallen because they lost faith in their leaders abilities. Someone get me a job at nickolodean, I just created a perfectly believable way for a show as epic as korra to end.

[AniHawk]

Of course, but it's analogous to having guns. Anti-gun people don't think that all gun owners are maniacs, but they think it's too dangerous for ordinary people to have them, so they'd rather not have the option to get guns in the first place rather than kill every gun owner.

except the part where being a gun owner is a choice and being a bender is something somewhat genetic.

Neither is being one single bloodbender. Even the most powerful person on the planet, the Avatar, can be taken down if the whole world turns against him.

point being, i think the antibending movement would eventually want a nonbender at the head of their cause versus a bloodbending bloodbender. they could even do it discretely and put someone else in the mask and call them amon after everyone was debended.

I do not know how this is not getting through to you. For the thousandth time, this is not a some new ability I'm suggesting. This is a logical extension of bloodbending. There is no reason he should not be able to do it, especially given he experimented with it enough that he can block others bending using it.

of course, there's the logical reason that he didn't learn intricate facial surgery. perhaps doing so would have required test subjects. noatak probably wouldn't wanted to have accidentally fucked himself up (like beyond a physical appearance), and he definitely didn't want to hurt others through practicing. plus if he needed to hide for whatever reason, he'd be the guy with the obviously fucked up face.

Your not really presenting an argument for why amon needs a clean face other than he might need on in very extraneous circumstances. Should he start carrying garlic around too, in case of vampires?

he probably already does, considering this is part of the batman universe.

You keep at this like the mask needs a justification of some kind. It doesn't. He could give no justification for it whatsoever, and I don't think anyone would have cared that much.

no, he definitely needed a mask. he needed a mask so he could hide from the police. he needed a mask so he could hide from the avatar. he needed a mask so his brother wouldn't out him. it was definitely a weakness, but one he was able to turn into a strength.

Well, besides that that would require constant concentration on it and that I can't see how it wouldn't be obvious to anyone watching that he is waterbending the rain out of his face, yeah, I guess.

not even his face, just away from the hood that drapes over his mask.

Listen to me very carefully People don't care about benders who do not abuse their power. It's the ones that do that make it difficult to live. If Amon is not abusing his power and is in fact making their lives better by taking away the powers of those that to do, no one in their right mind would be more than weary of him At best, your presuming that people will have frantic paranoia about Amon. Some, yes, I could believe, but everyone? And just because it can happen doesn't mean it's any less stupid. So even if things work out like you say they would, with Amon being persecuted over being a blood bender despite his actions helping the people he is supporting would make the citizens of republic city absurdly stupid.

thing is, he already had the radicals on his side. he already would have had a select few people who would have been cool with a bloodbender bloodbending other benders to make them into nonbenders. it was getting the rest of the general populace involved that would be difficult. and then what would happen if the other benders got into it? it would resemble the 100 year war in some ways, with a united bending force up against one larger-than-life superpowerful bender.

Doesn't make it any less dumb.

right, but that was exactly the point of it. it played out like it did in real life.

Doesn't matter. It doesn't make him a hypocrite or any less devoted to the cause.

i really like amon. i don't think he was lying about his ideals, and i think his heart was in the right place. i also don't think he's a hypocrite, but man i can see how pretty much everyone who wasn't there for the flashback story might think of him to be.

That doesn't negate the fact that it proves nothing at all. I am aware what the logic the show wants me to follow. I'm saying how fucking dumb it is.

let's do this: i will go out and try to capture the hearts and minds of the inhabitants of a city my way, and you go ahead and do it your way. if you're able to do it, or do it faster than me, i'll buy you a coke.

Again, fucking stupid of them. They are mental deficients that have no concept of how logic works if that is what EVERYONE presumed and would not listen to any defense Amon made. They have a right to be hurt by the fact that he lied to them, but there are so many ways for amon to defend his position here that it is ridiculous that his regime would fall because of that.

fallacy of appeal to emotion. amon used it a lot in his rise to power. of course they're not going to listen to logic since they didn't consider it in the first place.

anyway, his regime shouldn't be dead just because he was outed as a bender. there should still be unease between the bending and nonbending communities (to say the least). i really hope this is tackled in the next season.