[nomis]

I explained myself at lengths, I believe. Ignoring all that to simply chalk it all up to "personal biases" is quite disingenuous. But then again, you seem to be on a roll with the double standards...

You have explained at lengths why you disliked something, not offering some definitive PROOF that Lindelof is "a person, as an artist or writer, who exploits, for money, his or her creative ability or training in the production of dull, unimaginative, and trite work". Lost was neither dull nor unimaginative. If for some reason you find that it was, then that was also your opinion, and therefore subject to your personal biases.

I'm not being reductive when it comes to your ad nauseum arguments against his prior work. It's NOT disingenuous of me to claim that these statements of yours were opinions and not facts.



BTW: Excellent avatar, Speeding.

[TheKaeptain]

Too bad Steve Jobs' idea of changing the world was to put useless gadgets in people's hands. I wish Peter Weyland was real. :|

Me too.

[Zeliard]

Here's a 24-minute Ridley Scott and Damon Lindelof Q&A from yesterday:

http://www.livestream.com/prometheus...edium=ui-thumb

It was posted in the other Prometheus thread but I dunno if it made its way over here.

Note: Ridley Scott is not a fan of being called "oldschool." :P

[jett]

The screenplay is apparently more of a Jon Spaihts creation than Lindelof's, so who cares really.

[Talon]

Too bad Steve Jobs' idea of changing the world was to put useless gadgets in people's hands. I wish Peter Weyland was real. :|

You're fooling yourself if you don't think the PC revolution and the current smartphone revolution aren't huge.

The thing is that smartphones are going to do a better job of providing widespread internet access - something we Americans and western Europeans take as a given - because the initial cost of entry is much more affordable than a computer. It's making a huge difference in India and north Africa.

Google's doing some cool shit in central Africa as well. Public health projects in third world countries are relying on cellular telephony.

[Zeliard]

The screenplay is apparently more of a Jon Spaihts creation than Lindelof's, so who cares really.

Probably. Screenwriter credit in Hollywood films is a notoriously tricky and often unfair thing.

[SpeedingUptoStop]

The screenplay is apparently more of a Jon Spaihts creation than Lindelof's, so who cares really.

Didn't the last page say Spaihts stuff was fake? Who knows, who cares, it's all dope now.

[Henchmen21]

You have explained at lengths why you disliked something, not offering some definitive PROOF that Lindelof is "a person, as an artist or writer, who exploits, for money, his or her creative ability or training in the production of dull, unimaginative, and trite work". Lost was neither dull nor unimaginative. If for some reason you find that it was, then that was also your opinion, and therefore subject to your personal biases. I'm not being reductive when it comes to your ad nauseum arguments against his prior work. It's NOT disingenuous of me to claim that these statements of yours were opinions and not facts. BTW: Excellent avatar, Speeding.

Ha HA HA HA

This is a tv show where the writers openly admitted that they pull scripts out their asses at the last minute

[duckroll]

Didn't the last page say Spaihts stuff was fake? Who knows, who cares, it's all dope now.

Alien Harvest is a fake. Spaihts is indeed the main screen writer for this movie, and he wrote the original script as an untitled Alien prequel. Ridley Scott wanted to rework it a little to make it less directly an Alien prequel, so he got together with Lindelof and worked that out.

[Zeliard]

Didn't the last page say Spaihts stuff was fake? Who knows, who cares, it's all dope now.

The Alien Harvest thing is fake, but Spaihts did have the first crack at Prometheus.

Edit: fine ducky, be that way

[Talon]

Alien Harvest is a fake. Spaihts is indeed the main screen writer for this movie, and he wrote the original script as an untitled Alien prequel. Ridley Scott wanted to rework it a little to make it less directly an Alien prequel, so he got together with Lindelof and worked that out.

So what's the timeline here? Alien prequel was going to go ahead without Scott?

[Branduil]

Ha HA HA HA This is a tv show where the writers openly admitted that they pull scripts out their asses at the last minute

Hey some people's asses are quite imaginative.

[nomis]

The screenplay is apparently more of a Jon Spaihts creation than Lindelof's, so who cares really.

Because there's a third option between "It was pretty much just Spaights" and "Just another Lindelof turd", which is that the original script as a latticework has remained largely intact, but the collaboration with Lindelof has added depth in areas that weren't there before. All I've done is hoped that this would be the case, not try to futily derive evidence from what little we've seen to support my already existing inclination for something with his name attached.

Ha HA HA HA This is a tv show where the writers openly admitted that they pull scripts out their asses at the last minute

Yes, this completely renders 120 hours of television as requiring no imagination to create. For fuck's sake.

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Alien Harvest is a fake. Spaihts is indeed the main screen writer for this movie, and he wrote the original script as an untitled Alien prequel. Ridley Scott wanted to rework it a little to make it less directly an Alien prequel, so he got together with Lindelof and worked that out.

Hm, alright then. Damon also said he spent a year of his life working on just Prometheus so I imagine there's a little more than a little of him, although that was probably Exec Producer work too, injecting style and ideas visually int what's there on the page.

[Erigu]

You have explained at lengths why you disliked something, not offering some definitive PROOF that Lindelof is "a person, as an artist or writer, who exploits, for money, his or her creative ability or training in the production of dull, unimaginative, and trite work".

Shit, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I couldn't base my argument on his output and words and actually had to invent a device that would allow me to decipher his brain waves and provide absolute bullet-proof evidence that the guy is a hack. Then again, since many writers have been called hacks by others than me before, maybe I should just contact those critics and ask them if I could borrow their mind-reading machine instead? That would save me some time and trouble!
Or maybe you could just cut the crap, one or the other.

Lost was neither dull nor unimaginative.

It was profoundly stupid and tried very hard to appear clever, but that's a subject for another topic...

I'm not being reductive when it comes to your ad nauseum arguments against his prior work.

I'm simply basing my opinion of Lindelof on his previous output, just like it seems you're basing your opinion of Scott on his previous output.

The screenplay is apparently more of a Jon Spaihts creation than Lindelof's, so who cares really.

Like I said, Lindelof or not, I'm worried about the story...

[Zeliard]

Hm, alright then. Damon also said he spent a year of his life working on just Prometheus so I imagine there's a little more than a little of him, although that was probably Exec Producer work too, injecting style and ideas visually int what's there on the page.

There's little doubt that Lindelof probably had a big hand in it, particularly in fleshing out character moments and reducing or removing many of the overt Alien references at Ridley Scott's request.

But as far as the core storyline, that seems more likely to be Spaihts' in general.

[Scullibundo]

You guys are getting silly and off topic with all this contentious Lindelof talk. Let us instead return to more civil matters, like how much better the Cameron sequel will be.

[nomis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzRjHDAgRmk#t=2h21m01s

For anyone wondering about how much of Spaight's script is in there (i.e. quite a lot), straight from the horse's mouth.

For anyone wondering about the technicalities of writing credits:

http://www.slashfilm.com/qa-credit-s...persands-ands/

Shit, I'm sorry, I didn't realize I couldn't base my argument on his output and words and actually had to invent a device that would allow me to decipher his brain waves and provide absolute bullet-proof evidence that the guy is a hack.

I believe I'm trying to say that you haven't delivered such proof because it's physically impossible for anyone to do so.

Facts are not subject to biases.

Opinions are completely subject to biases.

You have just tried to claim that your opinions are not subject to your biases.

Therefore I concluded that you were going around trying to state your opinions as fact, which rubs me the wrong way.

[Erigu]

You guys are getting silly and off topic with all this contentious Lindelof talk. Let us instead return to more civil matters, like how much better the Cameron sequel will be.

Oh you!

If that means he never gets around to making Battle Angel, I'm all for it.

[strafer]

Prometheuses

[Calmine]

Looks amazing can't wait. Going to be a good year for movies :D Might start going to the cinema again...

[Zeliard]

Prometheuses

James Cameron's Prometheusi. A group of soldiers with wacky personalities face off against a horde of Space Jockeys.

[SpeedingUptoStop]

You guys are getting silly and off topic with all this contentious Lindelof talk. Let us instead return to more civil matters, like how much better the Cameron sequel will be.

Only way Cameron will do a sequel is if he lives another 60 years.

[Discotheque]

Aliens vs. Navi'i

[Scullibundo]

BTW, for those of you lucky enough to live in the UK, you will be getting Prometheus a week before the U.S on June 1st.

We aussies will be getting it on June 7th and the US getting it June 8th.







:D



Australia finally getting some due back after all the bullshit delayed releases we get. Prometheus and TDKR before the U.S. :D

[Dead]

Only way Cameron will do a sequel is if he lives another 60 years.

Why do you think he is diving to the bottom of the ocean

Dat search for immortality

[Erigu]

I believe I'm trying to say that you haven't delivered such proof because it's physically impossible for anyone to do so.

So no writer should ever be called "great" or "terrible"? Same thing for their stories, I imagine? No matter the arguments?
Well, that should make for fascinating discussions.

I concluded that you were going around trying to state your opinions as fact, which rubs me the wrong way.

That one is an opinion I happen to be quite confident about. Don't you have those? At all? Not even when you talk about your faith in the movie and Scott?

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Why do you think he is diving to the bottom of the ocean Dat search for immortality

He went in search for his beginning...


and then he just died.

[strafer]

BTW, for those of you lucky enough to live in the UK, you will be getting Prometheus a week before the U.S on June 1st. We aussies will be getting it on June 7th and the US getting it June 8th. :D Australia finally getting some due back after all the bullshit delayed releases we get. Prometheus and TDKR before the U.S. :D

Sweden gets it on June 1st too.

BURN!

[GhaleonEB]

Here's a 24-minute Ridley Scott and Damon Lindelof Q&A from yesterday: http://www.livestream.com/prometheus...edium=ui-thumb It was posted in the other Prometheus thread but I dunno if it made its way over here. Note: Ridley Scott is not a fan of being called "oldschool." :P

Watching now, just got through to where the 'old school' question game in. Fucking Bravo Ridley. :lol

[Blader5489]

The Alien Harvest thing is fake, but Spaihts did have the first crack at Prometheus. Edit: fine ducky, be that way

Thank god, that was just awful.

He went in search for his beginning... and then he just died.

:lol

[Ether_Snake]

I didn't like that viral video either, it felt overactacted and stereotypical. Not what i'd expect from what i hope this movie to be. But that's what it was, just a viral video.

Yeah that looked like a video game intro that I'd expect from something like Deus Ex or Syndicate:p

[duckroll]

Dead might be the only one here who even knows what I'm talking about when I mentioned the Golden Bough. Lol.

[Branduil]

Dead might be the only one here who even knows what I'm talking about when I mentioned the Golden Bough. Lol.

I'm aware of it, although I haven't read it.

[TheKaeptain]

You guys are getting silly and off topic with all this contentious Lindelof talk. Let us instead return to more civil matters, like how much better the Cameron sequel will be.

Let's just hope he does a better job than that guy that screwed up the mythology in that second Alien movie.

[Cake Boss]

Someone needs to clone Ridley Scott so we would get more of his movies.

So when is this coming out?

[Zeliard]

lul, ducky wanted props for pointing out the possible reference to The Golden Bough :p

[duckroll]

lul, ducky wanted props for pointing out the possible reference to The Golden Bough :p

I'm just a sad lonely man. :(

[Scullibundo]

Dead might be the only one here who even knows what I'm talking about when I mentioned the Golden Bough. Lol.

As soon as you posted it, I immediately looked it up and started reading it articles upon articles on it. :)

[nomis]

So no writer should ever be called "great" or "terrible"? Same thing for their stories, I imagine? No matter the arguments? Well, that should make for fascinating discussions.

You are combining the issues that I have with your discourse, when they were parsed out for a reason.

I took issue with you calling the writing in Prometheus "terrible" because of the small sample you have to draw from. This is not the case with Lost, so I don't have a problem with you calling it's writing "terrible". You have hours upon hours which you can judge. I then took issue with you coming to the conclusion that Lindelof is a hack, implying that his work on Lost took no imagination to create (which is 100% subjective to say), and then jumping on me when I said that commenting on how much imagination something requires is informed by your own biases.

No matter what body of evidence you may have gathered towards Lindelof's hackery on Lost, I believe that without that experience tainting your opinion of him, you would never have entered this thread to criticize the writing in the trailer for Prometheus. This because there is so little actual writing evident in it that it would not have drawn your ire without his name being attached.

I don't think you were biased against Lindelof when you argued against the writing in Lost. I think you are biased against Lindelof now for arguing against the small sample of writing in this trailer. All I ever meant was that this is unfair.

[Zeliard]

I'm just a sad lonely man. :(

Haha I'm just messin with ya. :) The film will probably chock-full of those sorts of "rise and fall" allusions. I mean the title alone is pretty conspicuous.

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Prometheus sequel will obviously be called 'Epimetheus'. Come on, guys, it's so obvious. And Scott will direct it. But it will cross over to the Na'vi, when it turns out the reason they resemble humans so much... it because they share... a common ancestor.

Coincidence!? I think not!

[duckroll]

Good God, why are we still arguing about Lindelof? Does it really matter that much whether one person likes or dislikes him? What does it change? Ultimately he didn't have a huge role in the fundamental elements of the script, and even if he somehow made it worse, we won't know until we watch the movie for ourselves. Is this really that interesting to argue about? (It might be, and if so carry on, I'm not objecting to it on any capacity other than my personal one, lol.)

[strafer]

Prometheus, that was some mean bush.

[Scullibundo]

Prometheus sequel will obviously be called 'Epimetheus'. Come on, guys, it's so obvious. And Scott will direct it. But it will cross over to the Na'vi, when it turns out the reason they resemble humans so much... it because they share... a common ancestor. Coincidence!? I think not!

Don't laugh. Cameron has hinted in interviews that there is a narrative reason that the Na'vi are bipeds, whilst everything else on the planet is a hexapod. He hinted that they may have been seeded and that the sequels might deal with it.

[Dan]

Ha HA HA HA This is a tv show where the writers openly admitted that they pull scripts out their asses at the last minute

Er, I have plenty of problems with Lost, but c'mon, that's how the vast majority of TV is made.

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Any speculation as to why there's a xenomorph on that black wall or whatever it is? Some kind of tomb or worship?

[Scullibundo]

Any speculation as to why there's a xenomorth on that black wall or whatever it is?

Because they're comin' outta the goddamn walls. Wierzbowski!

[duckroll]

Don't laugh. Cameron has hinted in interviews that there is a narrative reason that the Na'vi are bipeds, whilst everything else on the planet is a hexapod. He hinted that they may have been seeded and that the sequels might deal with it.

But I also recall him saying something about how originally they were much more alien and weirder, but they changed their design to resemble humans much more simply to make the emotional connection and the love story work.

Any speculation as to why there's a xenomorph on that black wall or whatever it is? Some kind of tomb or worship?

Maybe it's like how some people scribble designs and ideas on the wall.

[Scullibundo]

But I also recall him saying something about how originally they were much more alien and weirder, but they changed their design to resemble humans much more simply to make the emotional connection and the love story work.

They were always bipedal and humanoid. They just used to be less sympathetic looking. Early concepts had each braid of their hair as being tentacle-like and having sinewy black eyes. Ultimately, it would have made it incredibly awkward to watch Jake fuck this thing. I remember Cameron explaining that one of the last notes he gave to the team of artists in coming to the final design of Neytiri is that 'the audience has to want to fuck her.'