[Computer]

For some odd reason, I'm finding it difficult to comprehend how even a terrorist who would indiscriminately detonate a bomb in a crowded place would go into a school and begin shooting small children in the head. To not just target children but to then execute them is another category of person

Do Mexican drug cartels ever attack children?

[Mael]

The following article is somewhat offensive but it's good to have a laugh in these troubled times: http://www.debbieschlussel.com/48190...-the-religion/

I didn't think I could get THAT angry at written words on the web...

the ironic part is that the terrorists (safe word to use now I think) are probably catholics or atheists.

[MasLegio]

I think France should make an exception and bring out the Guillotine once they find the ones responsible.


Breivik (and his followers, quite a few on the net)
The Neo Nazi terror cell in Germany
and now this

Governments need to step up on fighting the extreme nationalists in Europe. They have been treated too kindly.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'm just happy for the second amendment in this country. Nazi scum could still try and attack my family, but I promise they won't go quietly into the fucking night.

[Kinyou]

Or a Neo Nazi.Let's try not to go down that road without evidence.

That was actually my first thought.

[Kabouter]

I'm just happy for the second amendment in this country. Nazi scum could still try and attack my family, but I promise they won't go quietly into the fucking night.

This is not the thread for a discussion of the American second amendment.

[UnluckyKate]

I think France should make an exception and bring out the Guillotine once they find the ones responsible. Breivik (and his followers, quite a few on the net) The Neo Nazi terror cell in Germany and now this Governments need to step up on fighting the extreme nationalists in Europe. They have been treated too kindly.

We obviously have a problem with neonazi in france as they don't have right of public speech

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

This is not the thread for a discussion of the American second amendment.

Thats not the the point. I'm merely speaking about the ability to protect oneself from Nazi attacks. I'm not saying oh they had no guns therefore they died.

[Computer]

Toulouse gunman may have filmed the shootings French interior minister says man who killed rabbi and three children at Jewish school had a video camera around his neck The gunman who killed a rabbi and three children at a Jewish school in Toulouse on Monday was wearing a small video camera around his neck and may have filmed the attack, according to the French interior minister. Claude Guéant said the attacker was wearing "a kind of filming apparatus" on his chest when he struck just before 8am and opened fire on children and adults outside the school. Asked whether the gunman recorded the scene, he said: "We can imagine that." Guéant said on Tuesday that authorities were combing the internet to see if the killer had posted a video online, but had not yet found any traces. The biggest manhunt in modern French history is under way to find the motorcycle gunman, who is still at large. Schools across France held a moment of silence on Tuesday to honour the three children and a rabbi killed in Monday's attack. The president, Nicolas Sarkozy, visiting a junior high school in Paris, said the children killed "are exactly like you". He said the attack "could have happened here", adding that authorities "will do everything to stop him". He stressed the need to increase security at synagogues and other Jewish sites in France. Investigators say the killer is the same person who shot three French soldiers of north African and Caribbean origin in two other attacks in Toulouse and nearby Montauban last week. Three soldiers died and one was injured. The same heavy, high-calibre weapon was used in all the attacks as well as a powerful Yamaha motorbike used for the getaways which was believed to have been stolen in Toulouse, but which could have been repainted white before the school attack. The man was wearing a motorcycle helmet during the shootings. He was filmed by CCTV cameras at the school as well as security cameras outside the cashpoint in Montauban last week. Guéant told French radio: "We're worried about the eventuality that he wants to carry out another attack." He said investigators did not know who the man was, and the inquiry was continuing but had not significantly advanced. He said "Each hour of work brings new elements. We're checking the past of certain people, we're checking witness accounts, material elements." He confirmed that police had been sifting through details of former soldiers who might have been expelled from the army for expressing "neo-Nazi opinions" and who "might have a spirit of revenge". But he said that this thread was not particularly placed above other lines of inquiry. Criminologists in the French media speculated that the killer could be someone with good knowledge and experience of firearms who appeared to have acted without emotion, and in cold blood. David Cameron has written to the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, condemning the attack as "senseless acts of brutality and cowardice". "I was appalled to learn of the recent shootings that France has suffered, including in Toulouse this morning. People across Britain share the shock and grief that is being felt in France, and my thoughts are with the victims, their friends and their families," he wrote. "I know that France will draw strength and comfort from your resolute leadership at this difficult time. You can count on my every support in confronting these senseless acts of brutality and cowardice."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...lmed-shootingd

Bodies of Toulouse victims to be flown to Israel The bodies of the four victims of Monday's shooting attack at a Jewish school in the French city of Toulouse were to be flown to Israel later Tuesday for burial, the union of Jewish communities in France said. Jonathan Sandler, 30, his sons Arieh, 5, and Gabriel, 4, as well as Myriam Monsonego, 7, all held both French and Israeli nationality. Their remains were to be taken to Paris first, and then flown to Israel at 10 pm, a spokeswoman for the central consistory - a body representing some 500 Jewish communities in France - told dpa. The spokeswoman could not confirm the final resting place of the four victims.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/world/201...lown-to-israel

[leadbelly]

Guys, for future reference, please remember that "nazi" is short for National-Socialist. I know that it is fairly confusing for Americans, maybe even a paradox to call a far right type a socialist. But keep in mind that nazism has always been a syncretic ideology, picking up bits and pieces of political standings from both sides of the political spectrum. That is why many of these supremacist scumbags are politically incoherent. I just wanted to make that clear. I apologize for the brief detour.

Actually the Nazi regime was fascist not socialist. Obviously the name does confuse the issue, but historically speaking fascism and socialism have been seen as two opposing ideologies. There are similarities between the two, but then there are differences as well.

[Computer]

Our national opportunist gives his two cents on the whole story:

After the carnage in Toulouse, France must stand together against anti-Semitism Leading French intellectual says French leaders must come together to say that all of France is being attacked in wake of assault on Jewish school in Toulouse. By Bernard-Henri Lévy So France is a country where, in 2012, in the country’s third largest city, one can shoot at a Jewish school and kill children, point blank. We must hope that the investigation will clarify the circumstances of this tragedy, the identity of the killer, and his motive. But whatever the possible motive, whatever we may learn about how the shooting that took place before the gates and then, as I understand it, inside the Ozar Hatorah lycée-collège played out, whatever link may be established with the mysterious murders of soldiers, last week, in Toulouse and in Montauban, the fact remains—and it is monstrous: French children, Jewish and French or, if one prefers, sovereignly French but guilty of having been born Jewish, were coldly gunned down, in broad daylight, on the territory of the Republic. And then this corollary which is nearly as unbearable: we have returned to the dark times when we must "direct the prefects to reinforce surveillance around all confessional sites in France, and particularly around Jewish schools." These are the terms of the French Ministry of the Interior’s communiqué Claude Guéant released a few minutes after the tragedy. It was inevitable, this communiqué. It was the very least the authorities, dismayed as we all were by the horror of the situation and taking the appropriate emergency measures, could do. But at the same time, these words make our blood run cold. And one trembles with shame and rage at the idea that, once again, we’re here, where we were after the attacks in the rue Copernic and in the rue des Rosiers and after the outburst of anti-Semitic acts at the beginning of the 2000s: pray, reflect, die, or simply study, under “reinforced police protection” and in the shelter of reconstituted “perimeters of security”—what an outrage! Confronted with this abomination, then, and given the very specific moment at which this catastrophe has occurred, only one reaction is possible. I mean, while the campaign for presidential elections is in full swing and even, apparently, in its final phase, there is only one response that measures up to the event. Of course, indignation and fear. And yes, verbal condemnation, strong words, the symbolic appearances that are being announced this Monday morning, as I write these lines. Of course, the beau geste of candidate Hollande who, in homage to the victims, decided to unilaterally suspend his campaign and to devote the coming hours to a great moment of collective reflexion and mourning. Of course, the none less noble reaction of candidate Sarkozy, who speaks of a "national tragedy" and decrees, for his part, a moment of silence in all French schools in memory of these three children, aged 3, 6, and 8, and their teachers, massacred in cold blood by a professional killer. And of course, if one insists, the usual speculation concerning the political climate, the lifting of taboos, the free expression of vile words that, in return for mediation that should not be neglected in the heated emotion of the moment, are like a sort of a permit to kill - here for a child murderer, there for a serial killer of soldiers. But also a common action, or better still, an act of communion in which all republican candidates - and I do mean republican - forget for the moment all that opposes them and cry out with one voice (and, if possible, without political ulterior motives), their categorical rejection of anti-Semitism and its always-criminal consequences. A little over twenty years ago, the entire political class, all families together with the exception of the National Front, was capable of marching behind President François Mitterrand to condemn the profanation of 34 Jewish graves at a cemetery in Carpentras. Today, we need an equivalent of that demonstration, with Nicolas Sarkozy and François Hollande in the lead, in grieving Toulouse, at the Place Capitole, this landmark of national memory where General De Gaulle came, on September 16, 1945, to preach the unity of the country to the people of the maquis, FFI, FTP, and survivors of the International Brigades of the Spanish Civil War. A great, solemn meeting, all political forces attending, to come to say, without nuance, that all of France is being attacked and must take a united stand when its children, whatever they may be and whatever, I repeat, the profile of the killer or his reasons, are massacred like this. A word of advice to the pyromaniacs of the defense of "national identity," perceived as a closed entity, nervous and jittery, feeding on resentment and hatred: it is the social contract that is the victim of assassination in a bloodbath of this kind; it is the very foundation of our common existence that vacillates and gives way when such madness explodes. There can be no worse blow to French culture, to the soul of our country, its history and when all is said and done, to its grandeur than racism and, today, anti-Semitism.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...itism-1.419741

[Computer]

The Paris public prosecutor (who's now in charge of all three investigations, due to his anti-terrorist prerogatives) will hold a press conference in exactly three hours, addressing the shootings in Montauban (where the paratroopers were murdered) and Toulouse (Jewish school shooting).

[Kurtofan]

The three nazi ex soldiers are exonerated.

VVV:don't know.

Edit: apparently sources diverge on the matter.

[archnemesis]

Are they still looking for other nazis?

[Salvor.Hardin]

Found this part from the BBC report kind of alarming.

There is no clear motive, in this investigation, but it is an inescapable fact that all the victims have been Jewish, black or of north African descent. The police are working against the clock, hoping they have put enough resources in the region to serve as the deterrent. But the serial killer may develop an urge to take greater and greater risks, and the fear is that he is already planning his next attack. There is a pattern to the style and frequency of the shootings - so far they have come every four days. And that puts the focus and concern on Friday - the Muslim day of prayer.

Where's Sherlock? Tintin would, I guess, work as well.

[Computer]

Are they still looking for other nazis?

It's only a hypothesis so far. The President said the investigation hadn't progressed but the police were obliged to get results.

[Computer]

Where's Sherlock? Tintin would, I guess, work as well.

We need Batman.

[SmokyDave]

The three nazi ex soldiers are exonerated. VVV:don't know.

Blimey. The hunt is back on.

[kylej]

If he's a motorcyclist he probably had a GoPro around his neck. That's some dark shit.

[nyong]

Not surprising given the level of thinly-veiled antisemitism anytime talk of Israel comes up. Is there any country on this planet where Jews are openly embraced by the general population? For all the love of multiculturalism in the West, you don't see many people praising their culture...

[Salvor.Hardin]

Oh man hadn't seen the pictures of the children. Adorable kids.

[Computer]

Not surprising given the level of thinly-veiled antisemitism anytime talk of Israel comes up. Is there any country on this planet where Jews are openly embraced by the general population? For all the love of multiculturalism in the West, you don't see many people praising their culture...

The United States?

[Keikoku]

Political recovery from hateful jewish associations such as the CRIF and UEJF were fast, that's for sure. And I'm not even talking about Israel, it was hilarious to hear them say that killing children was unacceptable... these children were children first, not jews. I hate how some "associations" are trying to make a wrong and digusting point with this case.

EDIT : fucking BHL. The guy was in Ramallah in 2009 saying that nobody was dying. Fuck this guy, he's not french, he actually hates the french people (see his book "the french ideology" from the 1980's) Also, the level of antisemitism is extremely low in France, just like in the US. Whoever did his was mentally disturbed, or maybe it was just a classic case of manipulation (Carpentras anybody ?) Oh and :

Today, we need an equivalent of that demonstration, with Nicolas Sarkozy and François Hollande in the lead, in grieving Toulouse, at the Place Capitole, this landmark of national memory where General De Gaulle came, on September 16, 1945, to preach the unity of the country to the people of the maquis, FFI, FTP, and survivors of the International Brigades of the Spanish Civil War. A great, solemn meeting, all political forces attending, to come to say, without nuance, that all of France is being attacked and must take a united stand when its children, whatever they may be and whatever, I repeat, the profile of the killer or his reasons, are massacred like this.

De Gaulle also said this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA9nFQyRTdw
Fits this BHL asshole, war criminal perfectly.

[nyong]

The United States?

The U.S. is one of the better countries, but Jewish culture is at best a punch line in the media.

[Mael]

Not surprising given the level of thinly-veiled antisemitism anytime talk of Israel comes up. Is there any country on this planet where Jews are openly embraced by the general population? For all the love of multiculturalism in the West, you don't see many people praising their culture...

Huh? You can separate having pb with Israel and liking their culture.
I mean I'm not exactly ok with everything Israel have done and am really more than ok with their culture.
Then again I don't view racism and racists in a good light at all.

Political recovery from hateful jewish associations such as the CRIF and UEJF were fast, that's for sure. And I'm not even talking about Israel, it was hilarious to hear them say that killing children was unacceptable... these children were children first, not jews. I hate how some "associations" are trying to make a wrong and digusting point with this case.

Huh? they were killed just outside a fucking Jewish school! Probably BECAUSE they were of Jewish faith, I mean you think that an association representing people of Jewish faith should not say anything? What?

[el retorno]

Not surprising given the level of thinly-veiled antisemitism anytime talk of Israel comes up. Is there any country on this planet where Jews are openly embraced by the general population? For all the love of multiculturalism in the West, you don't see many people praising their culture...

India I believe is pretty gun ho about jews.

The US for the most part as well.

[SmokyDave]

Not surprising given the level of thinly-veiled antisemitism anytime talk of Israel comes up. Is there any country on this planet where Jews are openly embraced by the general population? For all the love of multiculturalism in the West, you don't see many people praising their culture...

1; You shouldn't use the actions of this shooter to generalise the entire population.

2; Who the fuck said 'the west' loved multi-culturalism? Someone that's never been to the west or read western media?

[Raist]

Leading French intellectual

in the country’s third largest city

lolz BHL.

[Mael]

1; You shouldn't use the actions of this shooter to generalise the entire population. 2; Who the fuck said 'the west' loved multi-culturalism? Someone that's never been to the west or read western media?

And lol again at multi-culturalism and France in the same sentence.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's 1 culture in France : French culture, the rest is ignored at best or mere regionalism.

[carfo]

How do people get away with this? He escapes on a motorcycle...seriously?

[jorma]

Is there any country on this planet where Jews are openly embraced by the general population?

Plenty. France being one of them.

[Computer]

The Talmud is a bestseller in South Korea - even the government insists it is good for you, and has included it on the curriculum for primary school children. Says Seoul resident Naomi Zaslow, "If you refuse a plate of pork ribs here, people will be dumbfounded. If you tell them it's because you're Jewish, they'll unfailingly look impressed and say: 'Oh, you must be very clever'."

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435053

[MasLegio]

there is no major problem with people being anti-jewish in the west,
A majority of the people in western europe do not care if people are jewish or not. Though sadly some fundamentalist or natiinalistic jews try to turn any criticism against Israels settlement-policy and treatment of palestinians into anti-semitism.

[Salvor.Hardin]

How do people get away with this? He escapes on a motorcycle...seriously?

How is that hard to believe? Most developed countries aren't exactly expecting nor prepared for a string of casual massacres.

[Computer]

How do people get away with this? He escapes on a motorcycle...seriously?

As was previously stated, Toulouse is a medieval city with lots of narrow streets where it's easy to outrun police cars when you're on a motorcycle.

lolz BHL.

Close enough. Toulouse is France's fourth most populated city.

[MasLegio]

The Talmud is a bestseller in South Korea - even the government insists it is good for you, and has included it on the curriculum for primary school children. Says Seoul resident Naomi Zaslow, "If you refuse a plate of pork ribs here, people will be dumbfounded. If you tell them it's because you're Jewish, they'll unfailingly look impressed and say: 'Oh, you must be very clever'." http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=435053

and africans are good runners, americans are fat, english have bad teeth, mexicans are lazy etc. etc.

[Mael]

there is no major problem with people being anti-jewish in the west, A majority of the people in western europe do not care if people are jewish or not. Though sadly some fundamentalist or natiinalistic jews try to turn any criticism against Israels settlement-policy and treatment of palestinians into anti-semitism.

Yeah I'm with you that there's no BIG pb with anti semitism but the bold is preposterous.
Seriously the far right have a problem with people of Jewish faith but that have nothing to do with Israel.

and africans are good runners, americans are fat, english have bad teeth, mexicans are lazy etc. etc.

And that makes the fact that the Koreans love Judaism a stereotype how?

[IpsoFacto]

Oh debbie why you be racist? Your obsession with Muslims makes me wonder if you got dump by a Muslim.

The most disturbing comment came from EU diplomat Catherine Ashton:

´European Union Foreign Policy Chief Catherine Ashton compared the children who were murdered in Monday's shooting attack on a Jewish school in Toulouse, France with children who are killed in Gaza. "When we think about what happened today in Toulouse, we remember what happened in Norway last year, we know what is happening in Syria, and we see what is happening in Gaza and other places," Ashton said on the sidelines of a meeting of Palestinian youths in Brussels.

(Source)

In a nutshell, she's trivializing the massacre. I'm trying to get keep a cool head as I'm typing this.

[Keikoku]

Huh? they were killed just outside a fucking Jewish school! Probably BECAUSE they were of Jewish faith, I mean you think that an association representing people of Jewish faith should not say anything? What?

Yes I think they should shut the fuck up. These associations, and especially some members of them (Goldnadel, Finkielkraut, BHL, Prasquier, Klasrfeld) are just always playing fire with communities issues, actually most of them are far-right extremists in disguise (some of them aren't, just like Goldnadel who was saying yesterday on TV that Islamic thugs were frequently beating jews in Paris...) Even if the person who did this did it because these people were jews, it doesn't mean there is a climate of antisemitism in France. I hate how these groups are acting like France and french people always owes them something. I heard "you touch jews, you touch to France" many times yesterday... what a dumb thing to say. These children were french/human/innocent first as far as I'm concerned, and that's why I'm sorry they died. But I have no lesson to receive from a ambassador of a country who murders innocent children everyday, period. France has been a welcoming country for jews for decades, no matter what some very subtle propaganda is trying to make us think.

Oh and I'm also deeply irritated at how the media are always using the word "community" now. France does not recognize any community but the national one. Go the the US if you want it to be otherwise. Being an arab french myself I can't stand this bullshit.

EDIT : that was very brave of Ashton. But she'll lose her job for this.

[MasLegio]

How do people get away with this? He escapes on a motorcycle...seriously?

mopeds or motorbikes is probably the most used vehicle when conducting a planned crime in a city environment
extremely flexible

[nyong]

Huh? You can separate having pb with Israel and liking their culture

Sure, you can be critical of pretty much any nation or group of people for perfectly valid reasons. More often than not, though, the loudest/most critical voices are from people with not-so-hidden biases. Sort of like how people on Stormfront will post valid articles about crimes committed by blacks or hightlighting problems within the black community, but only doing so because it furthers their agenda.

[Kurtofan]

Yes I think they should shut the fuck up. These associations, and especially some members of them (Goldnadel, Finkielkraut, BHL, Prasquier, Klasrfeld) are just always playing fire with communities issues, actually most of them are far-right extremists in disguise (some of them aren't, just like Goldnadel who was saying yesterday on TV that Islamic thugs were frequently beating jews in Paris...) Even if the person who did this did it because these people were jews, it doesn't mean there is a climate of antisemitism in France. I hate how these groups are acting like France and french people always owes them something. I heard "you touch jews, you touch to France" many times yesterday... what a dumb thing to say. These children were french/human/innocent first as far as I'm concerned, and that's why I'm sorry they died. But I have no lesson to receive from a ambassador of a country who murders innocent children everyday, period. France has been a welcoming country for jews for decades, no matter what some very subtle propaganda is trying to make us think.

They had double nationality Franco-israeli.It's normal for Israel to be concerned.

[Raist]

Close enough. Toulouse is France's fourth most populated city.

I know, I lived there. Still, quite a blatant mistake especially for someone who feels like giving his opinion on everything at all times.

[MasLegio]

Yeah I'm with you that there's no BIG pb with anti semitism but the bold is preposterous. Seriously the far right have a problem with people of Jewish faith but that have nothing to do with Israel. And that makes the fact that the Koreans love Judaism a stereotype how?

no but some Israelis (mostly far right conservatives) often try to turn criticism against Israeli politics to criticism of the jewish people.

Would you not say that thinking that being Jewish = being smart is a stereotype?

[leadbelly]

and africans are good runners, americans are fat, english have bad teeth, mexicans are lazy etc. etc.

"Not all Jewish people are clever you know! I'm insulted!"

[Mael]

Yes I think they should shut the fuck up. These associations, and especially some members of them (Goldnadel, Finkielkraut, BHL, Prasquier, Klasrfeld) are just always playing fire with communities issues, actually most of them are far-right extremists in disguise (some of them aren't, just like Goldnadel who was saying yesterday on TV that Islamic thugs were frequently beating jews in Paris...) Even if the person who did this did it because these people were jews, it doesn't mean there is a climate of antisemitism in France. I hate how these groups are acting like France and french people always owes them something. I heard "you touch jews, you touch to France" many times yesterday... what a dumb thing to say. These children were french/human/innocent first as far as I'm concerned, and that's why I'm sorry they died. But I have no lesson to receive from a ambassador of a country who murders innocent children everyday, period. France has been a welcoming country for jews for decades, no matter what some very subtle propaganda is trying to make us think.

I'm not saying that BHL can speak all he wants, I don't actually care, but if you've got a fucking hate crime on a mosque you better expect the people representing the muslims to speak up.
It's not only expect but perfectly normal.
That you have a problem with these guys doesn't mean that everything they say is utter BS either.
The killer certainly had a problem of antisemtism and if nothing is done to stop him, one can hardly blame the associations to claim that there's an antisemitism pb here.

no but some Israelis (mostly far right conservatives) often try to turn criticism against Israeli politics to criticism of the jewish people.

Yeah but they're far less numerous than conspirationists claiming that the jews hold the powers cartman type.

Would you not say that thinking that being Jewish = being smart is a stereotype?

stereotypes are stupid, and I don't care about people saying stupid things.

[Castor Krieg]

Plenty. France being one of them.

Not really, see below:

there's 1 culture in France : French culture, the rest is ignored at best or mere regionalism.

[Computer]

I know, I lived there. Still, quite a blatant mistake especially for someone who feels like giving his opinion on everything at all times.

By the way, now that BHL got Gaddafi overthrown, has he done anything for the rebuilding of Libya?

"When we think about what happened today in Toulouse, we remember what happened in Norway last year, we know what is happening in Syria, and we see what is happening in Gaza and other places," Ashton said on the sidelines of a meeting of Palestinian youths in Brussels.

That was an unnecessary thing to say. Stop trying to make us cry and make a symbol out of everything, politicians.

[Mael]

Not really, see below:

You misunderstand me.

My point is that France doesn't care what or where you came from, in the end you're French and that's all.
No one gives a shit about jews, muslims, catholics or what have you as long as you're part of the culture anyway.

[Computer]

You misunderstand me. My point is that France doesn't care what or where you came from, in the end you're French and that's all. No one gives a shit about jews, muslims, catholics or what have you as long as you're part of the culture anyway.

That's the republican ideal, but there are lots of racist people who think otherwise.