[Bliddo]

Oh no, not another person falling for the indoctrination theory! Desperation makes people accept the silliest excuses

I never was that much invested in ME plot to be honest, so I'm far from desperate. But I do like to hear alternative interpretations of controversial endings, kinda like the dreaming theory in Inception.

[Cromat]

Hmm how would you explain the lack of reload etc? I dont think there anyway to rule it out right now

Do not attribute to design what can be aptly explained by incompetence.

[Gui_PT]

I think it could have been an interesting twist, kind of like Frodo in Mount Doom. Bioware might use the extended cut to fit the ending to the theory (which is purely fan fiction, like you said) and try to salvage it that way.

I am actually expecting them to do that lol

They see how desperate fans are and how they cling to this theory so they might just take advantage of that

[Rodhull]

Jesus, if Bioware misread the fanbase to think the majority wanted the indoctrination theory it'd be hilarious. I honestly think that'd be the only way they could make the ending even worse.

[Gazzawa]

Indoctrination theory is interesting alright.
But after some thought it kind of falls apart in some areas.
Like with Anderson vs The Illusive man. Thats supposed to be good vs evil playin out in his head instead of them actually being there.
But they were there. They were Metaphors for light and dark. I wanted them to be there at the end of it all.

RIP Marauder Shields. He did what was right.

[Gui_PT]

Indoctrination theory is interesting alright. But after some thought it kind of falls apart in some areas. Like with Anderson vs The Illusive man. Thats supposed to be good vs evil playin out in his head instead of them actually being there. But they were there. They were Metaphors for light and dark. I wanted them to be there at the end of it all. RIP Marauder Shields. He did what was right.

No, mang. He wuz dreamin'!

[Gazzawa]

No, mang. He wuz dreamin'!

The most convincing evidence was the trees man! the trees look at them.

[Cromat]

It is so easy to think of a good ending it's simply laughable how bad the actual one was.
For example (I am making this up as I go):

1) Show fleet arriving with the different races and war assets you've collected highlighted.

2) Show different results in the battles depending on Galactic Readiness and War Assets.

3) Land in London, fight your way through zones of varying difficulty depending on Galactic Readiness and War Assets.

4) Reach the beam and go up to the Citadel with your team members and without being abruptly injured.

5) Fight your way through the Citadel which should have been the hardest zone in the game. Along the way you lose team members like in the Suicide Mission of ME2.

6) Reach the top of the Citadel. There you meet the Illusive Man who has been turned by the Reapers. You can convince him to help you or not, but in the end the Reapers take control of him and you have a final battle against an Illusive Man-Reaper hybrid.

7) Kill the final boss, let the Crucible into the Citadel.

8) Choose either to take control of the Reapers to rebuild the galaxy (Paragon) or to destroy them entirely (Renegade).

9) End scene with the surviving crew members saying goodbye, kiss with love interest.

THE END

[Gazzawa]

^
listen to this man

Also can anyone tell me what REAL effects my renegade decisions in ME2 had?
I sold geth to cerberus and hes a holgram in this game, thats all i noticed.
But i gave cerberus the collector base and it meant nothing. I think it was mentioned once by the illusive man but i didnt notice anything else compared to my paragon run.

[Gui_PT]

It is so easy to think of a good ending it's simply laughable how bad the actual one was. For example (I am making this up as I go): 1) Show fleet arriving with the different races and war assets you've collected highlighted. 2) Show different results in the battles depending on Galactic Readiness and War Assets. 3) Land in London, fight your way through zones of varying difficulty depending on Galactic Readiness and War Assets. 4) Reach the beam and go up to the Citadel with your team members and without being abruptly injured. 5) Fight your way through the Citadel which should have been the hardest zone in the game. Along the way you lose team members like in the Suicide Mission of ME2. 6) Reach the top of the Citadel. There you meet the Illusive Man who has been turned by the Reapers. You can convince him to help you or not, but in the end the Reapers take control of him and you have a final battle against an Illusive Man-Reaper hybrid. 7) Kill the final boss, let the Crucible into the Citadel. 8) Choose either to take control of the Reapers to rebuild the galaxy (Paragon) or to destroy them entirely (Renegade). 9) End scene with the surviving crew members saying goodbye, kiss with love interest. THE END

While this would provide a much better ending, the highlighted points are just a copy of ME1's ending which would make the writers look like lazy bums (instead of just shitty writers so I guess it's not that bad)

[Cromat]

While this would provide a much better ending, the highlighted points are just a copy of ME1's ending which would make the writers look like lazy bums (instead of just shitty writers so I guess it's not that bad)

This is the lazy, vanilla ending I thought of in 5 minutes. I don't think it's particularly good, however it makes sense and provides closure, two things that the actual ending failed to do.

I just wanted to prove how any person with any sort of understanding of the narrative in the Mass Effect franchise can come up with a better ending.

[Rufus]

While this would provide a much better ending, the highlighted points are just a copy of ME1's ending which would make the writers look like lazy bums (instead of just shitty writers so I guess it's not that bad)

Pass it off as circularity, things end where they begin, yadda yadda. It'd be too close regardless, but the spirit of the idea is right at least. They had a good climax in one, great repercussions for choices in two and then space magic for the last one. Ugh.

Also, the encounter with TIM was already very close to the last confrontation with Saren. You just didn't fight his re-animated robot skeleton...

[Gui_PT]

You people have no artistic integrity!

[Cromat]

I still think the craziest thing is that the game has no final confrontation.
At no point does the player understand "THIS IS IT, THE FINAL SHOWDOWN".

You're fighting through London, you're running towards the beam, and boom - basically no more gameplay until the ending.

Isn't it a basic (and justified) video game trope that when you spend an entire three games fighting the Reapers - in the end you should fight... a Reaper? Or to be more exact, the KING of Reapers, or something equivalent?

By following the controversy I knew going in that the ending was going to be disappointing. I was still shocked at just how instantly and abruptly it came. No final confrontation. No final level. No final battle.

I guess i'm in the anger stage now

[Crewnh]

Why actually show the fruits of your labor when we can just create a single generic fmv.

[sTeLioSco]

Hmm how would you explain the lack of reload etc? I dont think there anyway to rule it out right now

lol?? just a gameplay mechanic.
(or can you explain more?what scene exactly.)

also bioware never confirmed it.
so is not canon.

arrival dlc is canon for example.
that's part of the story.the mass effect story includes it....
indoctrination is the result of a terrible and horrible ending.
its made up. best thing for indoctrination is to be named... speculation

[PastorOfMuppets]

Does anyone seriously believe Bioware is even capable of writing something like the Indoctrination Theory into the plot? Even going back to their glory days, the company has never really been known for plots with crazy mindfucks. I think it's a decent attempt by the Mass Effect fans to throw Bioware a slow pitch for a retcon but now that it's been almost two months, I think it's time to accept that Bioware just shat the bed with the ending.

[rozay]

I still think the craziest thing is that the game has no final confrontation. At no point does the player understand "THIS IS IT, THE FINAL SHOWDOWN". You're fighting through London, you're running towards the beam, and boom - basically no more gameplay until the ending. Isn't it a basic (and justified) video game trope that when you spend an entire three games fighting the Reapers - in the end you should fight... a Reaper? Or to be more exact, the KING of Reapers, or something equivalent? By following the controversy I knew going in that the ending was going to be disappointing. I was still shocked at just how instantly and abruptly it came. No final confrontation. No final level. No final battle. I guess i'm in the anger stage now

The illusive man-reaper hybrid you speak of actually exists and is in the art book. He was originally intended to be the final boss.

[televator]

Considering that the ending DLC will supposedly only elaborate on what we see in the ending, I'm pretty sure it will shoot indoc theory in the heart and head and bury it under 6 tons of concrete. Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred it if something like indoc theory could come along and render the ending we got completely null, but Bioware seems to be treating it far too literal for indoc theory to be viable.

[Rufus]

They'd actually have to make an ending if they went with the indoctrination theory.

[GSR]

Incidentally, I haven't replayed it yet, but it has to be said: Earth is a boring, unfulfilling final mission. I went in expecting that you'd be making selections of where to send people/fleets like the Suicide Mission in ME2, and if you didn't have high EMS/certain assets you'd be locked out of decisions, ultimately leading to a worse ending. Instead we got a few extra seconds of FMV at the start and then it was just Gears of Mass Effect up until Starchild.

Also, this might have been posted here before, but someone summed up the problem with the Reapers pretty well:

"Sovereign, we need you to recruit a synthetic race called the Geth to kill all the organics so that the organics aren't all killed by a synthetic race called the Geth. Starchild out."

A little overgeneralized, but ouch.

[televator]

Incidentally, I haven't replayed it yet, but it has to be said: Earth is a boring, unfulfilling final mission. I went in expecting that you'd be making selections of where to send people/fleets like the Suicide Mission in ME2, and if you didn't have high EMS/certain assets you'd be locked out of decisions, ultimately leading to a worse ending. Instead we got a few extra seconds of FMV at the start and then it was just Gears of Mass Effect up until Starchild. Also, this might have been posted here before, but someone summed up the problem with the Reapers pretty well: "Sovereign, we need you to recruit a synthetic race called the Geth to kill all the organics so that the organics aren't all killed by a synthetic race called the Geth. Starchild out." A little overgeneralized, but ouch.

Yeah the common defense is that the difference is that reapers only go after the most advanced organics. But they conveniently forget that the Geth actually preferred to mind their own damn business and were not plotting to create a cycle of organic apocalypse...until the reapers themselves f'd it up...then you fix it for good (if you made the right choices)... but the star child still insists otherwise...Yet the defenders still argue that reaper logic is still in tact...I give up...sure let's go ahead and do the rainbow ending instead. Fuck it! We'll do it live!

[The Broken Ska Record]

It is so easy to think of a good ending it's simply laughable how bad the actual one was. For example (I am making this up as I go): 1) Show fleet arriving with the different races and war assets you've collected highlighted. 2) Show different results in the battles depending on Galactic Readiness and War Assets. 3) Land in London, fight your way through zones of varying difficulty depending on Galactic Readiness and War Assets. 4) Reach the beam and go up to the Citadel with your team members and without being abruptly injured. 5) Fight your way through the Citadel which should have been the hardest zone in the game. Along the way you lose team members like in the Suicide Mission of ME2. 6) Reach the top of the Citadel. There you meet the Illusive Man who has been turned by the Reapers. You can convince him to help you or not, but in the end the Reapers take control of him and you have a final battle against an Illusive Man-Reaper hybrid. 7) Kill the final boss, let the Crucible into the Citadel. 8) Choose either to take control of the Reapers to rebuild the galaxy (Paragon) or to destroy them entirely (Renegade). 9) End scene with the surviving crew members saying goodbye, kiss with love interest. THE END

I'd be okay with the circular Saren/TIM scenario, but it kinda feels like the final run is going to make the ending that much longer. It was already annoyingly long going from the Cerberus base to Earth to the Citadel.

[Rebel Leader]

I don't know how I missed that toonami 'reviewed' ME3

Even they called the ending weak

[hateradio]

It was supposedly an April Fools gag; however, it made a lot of sense.

[Cromat]

I'd be okay with the circular Saren/TIM scenario, but it kinda feels like the final run is going to make the ending that much longer. It was already annoyingly long going from the Cerberus base to Earth to the Citadel.

I actually didn't consider the Cerberus base to be part of the ending proper, and I still feel as if at no point in the game do you feel "THIS IS IT, The Final Battle".

How can you not have a final boss fight in this game?

Three long games about fighting the Reapers. In the end of ME1, you fight a Reaper. In the end of ME2, you fight a meaner Reaper. In the end of ME3, you run, get injured by a laser (which we have already successfully dodged earlier in the game), and then you talk about nonsense for about 10 minutes and GAME OVER.

[hateradio]

How can you not have a final boss fight in this game?

"Too video gamey."

[PinkCrayon]

Come on guys... we've been through this many times before. Indoc theory would be an even worse ending than what we got. It would also mean that the "real ending" was planned dlc all along, and no one, not even bioware, is that stupid.

[DTKT]

I actually didn't consider the Cerberus base to be part of the ending proper, and I still feel as if at no point in the game do you feel "THIS IS IT, The Final Battle". How can you not have a final boss fight in this game? Three long games about fighting the Reapers. In the end of ME1, you fight a Reaper. In the end of ME2, you fight a meaner Reaper. In the end of ME3, you run, get injured by a laser (which we have already successfully dodged earlier in the game), and then you talk about nonsense for about 10 minutes and GAME OVER.

According to the "Final Hours" app, Casey Hudson and Mac Walters wanted to end to be "high-minded". Their exact words.

[The Broken Ska Record]

I actually didn't consider the Cerberus base to be part of the ending proper, and I still feel as if at no point in the game do you feel "THIS IS IT, The Final Battle". How can you not have a final boss fight in this game? Three long games about fighting the Reapers. In the end of ME1, you fight a Reaper. In the end of ME2, you fight a meaner Reaper. In the end of ME3, you run, get injured by a laser (which we have already successfully dodged earlier in the game), and then you talk about nonsense for about 10 minutes and GAME OVER.

Except the game itself recognizes the Cerberus base as the beginning of the end of the game. In fact, when you load your last save, it kicks you back to right before the Cerberus fight. Even outside of that, going to Earth, then to London, then to getting picked up, and then going through that long/annoying "goodbye" sequence, to firing the missles, to going to the lazer to the Illusive Man to Starchild took too damn long. The Suicide Mission was a good length, IMO, because it felt you were actually charging towards something instead of being lead around.

And besides you do fight a Reaper in ME3. :3

Also, what the fuck was with the Human reaper in ME2? How did that make sense? What was that thing's purpose? Gah!

[Gui_PT]

Come on guys... we've been through this many times before. Indoc theory would be an even worse ending than what we got. It would also mean that the "real ending" was planned dlc all along, and no one, not even bioware, is that stupid.

You sure?

[televator]

Come on guys... we've been through this many times before. Indoc theory would be an even worse ending than what we got. It would also mean that the "real ending" was planned dlc all along, and no one, not even bioware, is that stupid.

I wish they were...I wish they were. Well, maybe not stupid, but definitely greedy.

[Cromat]

According to the "Final Hours" app, Casey Hudson and Mac Walters wanted to end to be "high-minded". Their exact words.

I think they were high themselves when they wrote the ending.

Except the game itself recognizes the Cerberus base as the beginning of the end of the game. In fact, when you load your last save, it kicks you back to right before the Cerberus fight. Even outside of that, going to Earth, then to London, then to getting picked up, and then going through that long/annoying "goodbye" sequence, to firing the missles, to going to the lazer to the Illusive Man to Starchild took too damn long. The Suicide Mission was a good length, IMO, because it felt you were actually charging towards something instead of being lead around. And besides you do fight a Reaper in ME3. :3 Also, what the fuck was with the Human reaper in ME2? How did that make sense? What was that thing's purpose? Gah!

I didn't feel the ending was too long. The game itself was shorter than the previous two games and had a lot less content, but that makes sense within the context of the war with the Reapers. I would have no problem with the last battle being longer. Did any of you get while playing the last part with the missile that this is the last time you're going to fight an enemy in the Mass Effect franchise (Marauder excluded)?

The plan was to go up the Citadel. I didn't think for a second they meant "going up the Citadel for a prolonged cutscene".

I felt some sort of final battle was necessary, if not a boss then at least a stand-your-ground-tons-of-enemies moment with the Illusive Man laughing maniacally in the background.

The Human Reaper was incredibly stupid, I agree, but hey at least it was a final boss!
I guess we should have known, after the Human Reaper thing, that there is no way they're going to make a reasonable conclusion to this series.

[The Broken Ska Record]

I didn't feel the ending was too long. The game itself was shorter than the previous two games and had a lot less content, but that makes sense within the context of the war with the Reapers. I would have no problem with the last battle being longer. Did any of you get while playing the last part with the missile that this is the last time you're going to fight an enemy in the Mass Effect franchise (Marauder excluded)? The plan was to go up the Citadel. I didn't think for a second they meant "going up the Citadel for a prolonged cutscene". I felt some sort of final battle was necessary, if not a boss then at least a stand-your-ground-tons-of-enemies moment with the Illusive Man laughing maniacally in the background. The Human Reaper was incredibly stupid, I agree, but hey at least it was a final boss! I guess we should have known, after the Human Reaper thing, that there is no way they're going to make a reasonable conclusion to this series.

I think I may have had about an hour or two less in ME3 than ME2. Even with all of the DLC. ME3 does feel shorter, because it doesn't seem like there were very many missions. The ending mission felt longer because it kinda felt like it wanted me to do so many random things before going to the final fight. I'm much more likely to replay the suicide mission in ME2 than the final mission in ME3. I think that's half to do with how slow Shepard walked when he was injured. :/

I agree that a final battle would have been necessary. Even if it was just a mutated Illusive Man, or something. Hell. Maybe even have a fight with Reaper Kid to get him to NOT destroy the fucking Mass Relays.

[riceandbeans]

Incidentally, I haven't replayed it yet, but it has to be said: Earth is a boring, unfulfilling final mission. I went in expecting that you'd be making selections of where to send people/fleets like the Suicide Mission in ME2, and if you didn't have high EMS/certain assets you'd be locked out of decisions, ultimately leading to a worse ending. Instead we got a few extra seconds of FMV at the start and then it was just Gears of Mass Effect up until Starchild. Also, this might have been posted here before, but someone summed up the problem with the Reapers pretty well: "Sovereign, we need you to recruit a synthetic race called the Geth to kill all the organics so that the organics aren't all killed by a synthetic race called the Geth. Starchild out." A little overgeneralized, but ouch.

The final earth mission did feel a little rushed. You meet meet with all your crew from ME1 and ME2, say your final words, and that's about it. Like you mentioned, I think it would've been a lot more interesting if you were calling orders on where to send crews like Jacobs, commanding the Krogan for reinforcements, and if you didn't have enough EMS, then certain squads would get wiped out, etc.

Then again, you'd be fucked on the GR scale if you didn't play the multiplayer, facebook, or iOS games. Still, I thought the Earth mission was badass and the waves of enemies made everything feel desperate.

[RedRedSuit]

Personally I enjoyed the Earth mission. There was an appropriate amount of apocalyptic tension. It felt good overall.

Certainly in retrospect I wish it was more dependent on what went before it, like ME2's suicide mission. I wish Harbinger was involved in a personal way. I wish the various cutscenes showed war assets in more than a glancing way. But while I was there, in the moment, I definitely thought it was well done.

Actually a lot of ME3 is like that. I liked most of the experience except the ending, but now that I compare it to ME2 (and in some ways ME1) it's so incredibly lacking.

One hub world. One.

[Jake Tower]

Incidentally, I haven't replayed it yet, but it has to be said: Earth is a boring, unfulfilling final mission. I went in expecting that you'd be making selections of where to send people/fleets like the Suicide Mission in ME2, and if you didn't have high EMS/certain assets you'd be locked out of decisions, ultimately leading to a worse ending. Instead we got a few extra seconds of FMV at the start and then it was just Gears of Mass Effect up until Starchild.

My sentiments exactly. The final mission is pretty much a shitty Gears of War level.

[Joe Molotov]

The last bit was terrible, so many Banshees, so many Brutes, ugh. Bullet sponge hell.

[impirius]

Incidentally, I haven't replayed it yet, but it has to be said: Earth is a boring, unfulfilling final mission. I went in expecting that you'd be making selections of where to send people/fleets like the Suicide Mission in ME2, and if you didn't have high EMS/certain assets you'd be locked out of decisions, ultimately leading to a worse ending. Instead we got a few extra seconds of FMV at the start and then it was just Gears of Mass Effect up until Starchild.

Yes. The Suicide Mission is one of my all-time favorite sequences, and it seemed like ME3, with its emphasis on gathering War Assets and building alliances, was building to a final mission that followed a similar blueprint. I have to think that something similar was originally in the plans.

I should probably just unsubscribe from this thread so it doesn't keep showing up and reminding me of the unfulfilled potential. Bah.

[DTKT]

Yes. The Suicide Mission is one of my all-time favorite sequences, and it seemed like ME3, with its emphasis on gathering War Assets and building alliances, was building to a final mission that followed a similar blueprint. I have to think that something similar was originally in the plans. I should probably just unsubscribe from this thread so it doesn't keep showing up and reminding me of the unfulfilled potential. Bah.

Strange thing. It was actually supposed to be exactly like that. We have cut dialogue from Jack, Geth Primes and Krogan all taking place during the ending. You were supposed to fight right beside Jack and the students and Geth Primes.

[diamondstar]

The last bit was terrible, so many Banshees, so many Brutes, ugh. Bullet sponge hell.

Mega frustrating and one of the most boring missions of the game.

About IT.. I really wish Bioware took that angle. While playing ME3 I was waiting and waiting for some big "twist" to blow me away like Revan in KOTOR. The only thing that blew me away was how terribly bad the final mission was.

IT would have been a great reveal. Especially if Anderson or even a love interest was indoctrinated since ME1. I wouldn't have seen it coming at all. Just goes to show it seems the trilogy was not planned and just put together game by game. What a fucking waste.

[hayejin]

So the character that becomes Joker's Eve at the end is based on ending choice or your choice throughout the game???

I romanced that Indian girl and even had crying hug before the final battle about having a house with fence and dogs all while Joker was talking about boning EDI.

When I got the ending(left path), the Indian girl was beside Joker as if she had hots for him since day once and EDI just stepped out afterwards.

[hateradio]

You slept with her, and you can't even remember her name? Typical.

[Rapstah]

You slept with her, and you can't even remember her name? Typical.

He slept with her and can't remember what planet she's from.

[Blue Ninja]

You slept with her, and you can't even remember her name? Typical.

I'm not even sure who the fuck he's referring to. :lol

[Dresden]

Probably Tali judging by the references to 'Indian' and the remark about houses and shit.

I thought everyone called her a Space Muslim though.

[Gazzawa]

He slept with her and can't remember what planet she's from.

hayoooooooooooo
pimp status confirmed

[Rapstah]

Probably Tali judging by the references to 'Indian' and the remark about houses and shit. I thought everyone called her a Space Muslim though.

Sure it's not Traynor? Her British accent and skin tone could make people think she's Indian. She makes a point of being from space somewhere though.

[Bisnic]

Sure it's not Traynor? Her British accent and skin tone could make people think she's Indian. She makes a point of being from space somewhere though.

Pretty sure Traynor never come out of the Normandy though.

First time i ever see someone calling Tali "Indian girl" if that's really who he is talking about.

[Rapstah]

Pretty sure Traynor never come out of the Normandy though. First time i ever see someone calling Tali "Indian girl" if that's really who he is talking about.

Doesn't Traynor take EDI's place animation-for-animation if you choose Destroy?