[El Sloth]

Experienced a weird bug: the camera stayed zoomed in for the majority of my last match. It almost felt first person for a bit, ha ha.

[Emitan]

Experienced a weird bug: the camera stayed loomed in for the majority of my last match. It almost felt first person for a bit, ha ha.

I've experienced that. I'd have to test it more, but it might have something to do with hitting the A button to move to a new cover point while still holding down the left trigger.

[Jackson]

Any chance of expanding on that?

Ya

We're going to have "Rogue groups" i.e. Variant vs Variant or Paladin vs Paladins fight each other if there's a surplus of one faction. It prefers normal matches, but will choose if you're waiting too long.

Right now at this moment there are more Variants than Paladins (which can change depending on the day) , so Paladins get in instantly and Variants wait for Paladins.

This is why we do betas though, to see how real-world scenarios play out in systems few (if any) games have used before. :)

[Aaron]

Wow, this game is great. I had no idea what to expect from the limited movement, but the way it works in concert with the bots and how you choose your equipment is pretty much a perfect mix. I thought 3v3 would be an issue, but it just makes the fights quicker and more focused. Had an odd issue where I'd hit A and there was a delay before I started moving, so either I'd fly into a very different situation, or I'd jam A and end up getting redirected when I didn't intend to.

[PedroLumpy]

We're going to have "Rogue groups" i.e. Variant vs Variant or Paladin vs Paladins fight each other if there's a surplus of one faction. It prefers normal matches, but will choose if you're waiting too long.

How do the Meta game contributions work when it comes to the rogue matches?

[Draft]

We're going to have "Rogue groups" i.e. Variant vs Variant or Paladin vs Paladins fight each other if there's a surplus of one faction. It prefers normal matches, but will choose if you're waiting too long. Right now at this moment there are more Variants than Paladins (which can change depending on the day) , so Paladins get in instantly and Variants wait for Paladins. This is why we do betas though, to see how real-world scenarios play out in systems few (if any) games have used before. :)

Let me have a code, I'll play Paladins.

[Randdalf]

Assuming this is still Source engine, won't a PC version be fairly simple to release?

[Blizzard]

Assuming this is still Source engine, won't a PC version be fairly simple to release?

In theory yes, and I imagine they could patch more easily, but I believe Jackson said they were waiting to see how XBLA sales are first.

[Jackson]

How do the Meta game contributions work when it comes to the rogue matches?

I'll just say the way we want to do it, it won't negatively affect either faction and you'll still rank up.

[sneakypete]

Anyone else paladin? I wanna group up w some folks. Mics would be nice :). East coast, USA here.

Gt: CriscoGiant

I'll be off work in 4 hours or so

[Community Forum]

This game is fun, and the graphics are great. 60fps trumps all. In an era where that is far from the norm (when it really should be), it is so great to experience. I will definitely be rewarding the devs by purchasing when the game comes out. Thanks for the beta code!

[PedroLumpy]

The movement works pretty well. Only having worrying about people attacking for certain positions is a good counter to being able to see from behind cover.

Still I don't think TDM works. Without an objective or power weapons to draw people out, it's too easy to sit back. I'd like to be able to do King of the Hill exclusively somehow.

[Kafel]

This game is fun, and the graphics are great. 60fps trumps all. In an era where that is far from the norm (when it really should be), it is so great to experience. I will definitely be rewarding the devs by purchasing when the game comes out. Thanks for the beta code!

who are/were you?

[electricpirate]

The movement works pretty well. Only having worrying about people attacking for certain positions is a good counter to being able to see from behind cover. Still I don't think TDM works. Without an objective or power weapons to draw people out, it's too easy to sit back. I'd like to be able to do King of the Hill exclusively somehow.

Some maps reward that kind of play too. "Defense Grid" is just a big U, so there's a chokepoint, where everyone just kind of camps out. In KOTH it kind of works, but it mostly just turns into a pop and shoot fest in any other mode.

[jgkspsx]

Nobody skilled plays Paladins, right? Because I'm not, and I did, and we got creamed every time, despite playing adequately IMO.

Very interesting game that I really want to like, but it's hard to see new people getting into it if it it got this unbalanced in the early days of the beta.

[Sklorenz]

Really enjoyed the game so far, I played it some on Friday evening. Haven't had a chance to play it since, but I'm about to give it a whirl in a bit.

King of the Hill - Never figured out where the Hill was during the single round of this that I played, but the round didn't last long at all before we lost. I sort of forgot it was KotH and not TDM until the game ended. Hoping to try this later again. I think the round lasted like 90 seconds or something like that, which felt like a total waste after waiting for the game to start.

Overlord - I only played one round of this and I thought it was great. I'm not sure why people were hating on it earlier in the thread. It's just like TDM with a nice little twist.

I've probably played about 8 rounds total, maybe 10, my kill count is still lower than my death count but it was getting better by the end. Spent every round trying out new guns and abilities, and I think I did best with the fully auto machine gun and the sniper. I don't remember seeing a hacking grenade that people have been talked about on here though...

So far I really enjoy the game. I was able to get Live for $2 for 2 months due to some sale they were having I guess, which was great! I suppose if I had shelled out $20 for two months I would probably have a harsher initial impression. FPS and TPS aren't games that I play a whole lot, so I think it made it really easy for me to get into the control scheme. However, I suck at this game. Hopefully another 10 games or so and my K-D ratio will be even at least :P

I have had a little trouble with getting into a game but only one instance where it actually took quite a while, and somebody ended up leaving the lobby. It was quick enough for the most part, nothing awful at all. Too slow for retail of course, but completely passable for beta. Time of day (friday evening) might have had something to do with that, I dunno. I almost pulled the game up at 7am CST when I got up this morning but figured it might just be harder with even fewer people playing the game then.

I'm also playing Variant... we lost every single match lol Edit: Scratch that, I'm actually Paladin

[PedroLumpy]

Some maps reward that kind of play too. "Defense Grid" is just a big U, so there's a chokepoint, where everyone just kind of camps out. In KOTH it kind of works, but it mostly just turns into a pop and shoot fest in any other mode.

Yeah Defense Grid(array?) is BRUTAL for that. I don't really like that map for KOTH, but on TDM it's a complete writeoff.

[jgkspsx]

I liked Overlord better than TDM. I guess my team was better, though.

[SAB CA]

Everything is better than TDM. Mostly because this game works best with teamwork, and there's no teamwork in "everyone run around and kill frenzy!"

I think learning how to work around the movement in this game will change it's play a lot, however. What seems overpowered now, will seem like a smart decision once people start moving and shooting cover-to-cover better, and get teams with friends, rather than randoms.

And I, for one, like unlocking systems, because going in at lvl 1 and seeing some of these later options, before learning how to play the game, would be REALLY unappealing. It already is for low lvl VS high levels, but at least the levels and progression limits it some.

Personally, I never felt like I "lacked control" at any point in this game. Does movement in this game really feel more restrictive than moving from cover-to-cover in GRFS beta? Or from the corridors of cover-shifting in Gears? Like a good arcade game, Hybrid just seems to distill the experience into what is more important and needful, and present that. If the abilities to boost, strafe, change height, return, and change destination in mid-flight were not there, I DO think it'd be too limited, but thankfully, this is not the case.

Jackson, if I may ask, is there any extended character look customization in the full game? I know there are special Helmet unlocks for those who play this Beta, but is there more?

[PedroLumpy]

And I, for one, like unlocking systems, because going in at lvl 1 and seeing some of these later options, before learning how to play the game, would be REALLY unappealing. It already is for low lvl VS high levels, but at least the levels and progression limits it some.

No offense, but I would prefer if they didn't damn us all because you find options intimidating.

[El Sloth]

Ideal King of the Hill Team Setup:

1 guy at the capture point - 2 guys hanging back providing cover

Guy at capture point= Shotgun - Metadefense/Smoke nades - Armored

1st backup = Swarm or one of the machine guns with good accuracy - Hack nades/Frags/Flash bangs - Commander

2nd backup = Sniper - Sensor - Assassin

What do you guys think? Always win the matches where the team I'm on runs something like this.

Can someone explain Overlord to me? I just don't "get it".

Edit: Jackson, are there any plans for a "crazy" KoTH mode? Where the capture point is constantly switching between places? I think it'd help from keeping things too one sided after a team manages to dig on a capture point.

[PedroLumpy]

Edit: Jackson, are there any plans for a "crazy" KoTH mode? Where the capture point is constantly switching between places? I think it'd help from keeping things too one sided after a team manages to dig on a capture point.

I don't think these maps have more than one spot that would be considered a good hill location.

[SAB CA]

No offense, but I would prefer if they didn't damn us all because you find options intimidating.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that dumping 40 guns and a huge load of abilities all at once on a gamer who doesn't even understand the basics of your game, doesn't make a game, or the player, better (and you're not being damned by waiting until you have expereince with a game, before you can use advanced features). If anything, it makes it worse.

It's proper to be able to learn the fundamentals of a game in an environment that FOCUSES on that, before tossing modifiers into the mix. The exact same thing happens with progression in single player games: You learn how to do normal jumps, and master them, before you're given a double jump. You learn to take a double jump to it's limits, before you're given the ability to fly. It's all part of a learning curve.

This game has a very generous starting pool of options. Much more than the generic "3 guns, a grenade, and 2 power ups" kinda stuff many games give out. And yet, with all that, there's still loads of unlocks, which all seem to actually bring something to the game. The unlock system helps set the games learning curve, in the same way a single player game would with new powers, and difficulty levels.

This games unlocks seem like they make a deep game even deeper. If the unlocks seemed like they made half-finished character complete, however, I wouldn't be a fan of them, either. But thankfully, that's not the case!

Fighting games are my main genre, so I love options, and a wide variety of tools. But I also hate seeing players who just jump to the "strongest" options, and totally ignore the fundamentals, because they think the game is centered around the strong options, and NOT the basics. It fosters lower-quality, more limited players, that bring less to the games overall landscape.

[Surface of Me]

Really loving this do far, only problem I have is the map defense array. I hate it.

[jgkspsx]

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that dumping 40 guns and a huge load of abilities all at once on a gamer who doesn't even understand the basics of your game, doesn't make a game, or the player, better (and you're not being damned by waiting until you have expereince with a game, before you can use advanced features). If anything, it makes it worse.

As somebody who doesn't do that much playing in this genre (or FPSes, for that matter) I completely agree. I feel a bit lost and don't know where I should be putting my limited playtime.

[PedroLumpy]

(and you're not being damned by waiting until you have expereince with a game, before you can use advanced features).

Yes I am. These weapons aren't 'advanced features', they are the core game. I'll be learning the game with some weapon, it could be an assault rifle, a rocket launcher, a shotgun, whatever. Arbitrarily limiting me doesn't improve that process, if anything I'm not learning the true game until I finally complete the progression curve. Even if you do find it a problem, maybe you could just limit yourself rather than dragging me along.

It's proper to be able to learn the fundamentals of a game in an environment that FOCUSES on that, before tossing modifiers into the mix.

Are you seriously suggesting I'm not ready to learn the <insert weapon/ability here> until the all knowledgeable progression curve game says I'm ready? The weapons and abilities are integral to the fundamentals. You're not learning the true game until you have them in the sandbox.

The exact same thing happens with progression in single player games: You learn how to do normal jumps, and master them, before you're given a double jump. You learn to take a double jump to it's limits, before you're given the ability to fly. It's all part of a learning curve.

Single player and multi player games are completely incomparable, you're fighting humans, not AI. Single player games are balanced against whichever part of the curve you're on. Humans are not.

Think about what you're saying, a game is faced with the challenge of explaining a multitude of options to a player. Instead of say, having a tutorial, a testing range, or whatever, the logical solution is to lock that away behind a 10(?) hour progression curve? Not only is that bonkers but it creates a whole slew of other problems. Newbies entering the game 3 months down the line? Enjoy getting wiped not only by people who understand the game better, but also have more options with weapons or abilities, and they have stronger specializations. Or how about balancing? Balancing things when you just have one sandbox is hard enough, now you're trying to balance things with everyone coming in with different weapons, abilities and specializations? Nigh impossible.

But we're arguing a fall choice here. There's nothing to say we can't both have what we want. Place a little unlock button somewhere, I press it and get everything, you don't and you get your progression curve, everyone's happy.

[godhandiscen]

Can I have a code please?

[The Xtortionist]

The Gambler is the only relevant unlock I've come across (totally busted in TDM). I'm level 19 and haven't lost more than 5 games total. 90% of my games were with the base assault rifle, Satellite and Strategist. Siphon is pretty good I guess not not really needed.

[jgkspsx]

But we're arguing a fall choice here. There's nothing to say we can't both have what we want. Place a little unlock button somewhere, I press it and get everything, you don't and you get your progression curve, everyone's happy.

I'm sad that this doesn't have some stripped down SP mode to teach mechanics ala Brütal Legend.

[Satchel]

Too late to get in?

[PedroLumpy]

I'm sad that this doesn't have some stripped down SP mode to teach mechanics ala Brütal Legend.

Considering how restricted the movement is, bots actually aren't that crazy a possibility. Not that it would be easy or anything.

[mr_chun]

Damn. I hate XBLA exclusives. Curse devs that develop for the only current gen system I don't have!

*shakes fist*

I'll be alirght doe.

[Surface of Me]

Yeah, Overlord is much better than TDM I think. Still haven't played KotH. Played an Overlord match earlier where I got to level 20 and then got sniped by someone I didn't see. We lost moments later.

Is there any way to tell when a grenade goes near you? I know there is a little sound, but even when I press Y to switch cover ASAP, the grenade still gets me.

[Jackson]

The Gambler is the only relevant unlock I've come across (totally busted in TDM). I'm level 19 and haven't lost more than 5 games total. 90% of my games were with the base assault rifle, Satellite and Strategist. Siphon is pretty good I guess not not really needed.

I'm glad to hear that your default loadout is still viable. It means we've done a pretty good job balancing everything. No gun should be "the gun".

We've noticed some minor balancing things, but so far nothing major.

[Mechazawa]

Welp, I sure fucking hate the Swarm in King of the Hill.

[FyreWulff]

Quote for Hybrid beta code because I can't play it due to no Legacy sticks

.

[Letters]

Quote for Hybrid beta code because I can't play it due to no Legacy sticks .

used it, thanks Fyre

[Quote]

used it, thanks Fyre

Bah, you must have beaten me by seconds!

[Sklorenz]

Got to put in another solid hour and a half with the game. My K-D ratio is now about 1:1 with a little bit of variance once I've gotten warmed up. Starting to get a lot better all around, and my Paladin teams aren't getting mopped anymore like before. There are some really competent snipers that are such a pain in the butt... I haven't gotten that great with it. Right wow I'm mainly using the semi-automatic battle rifle and frag grenades with Armor Up. Double frag kills are so satisfying. Also, damn people who have that teleport ability, it always catches me off guard. That's probably the most unbalanced skill that's locked away that I've come across so far (only level 12 right now).

Anybody find a good use for the swarm? Used it once and got destroyed with it. I guess it's good for spamming the hill in KotH like the poster above me mentioned (didn't try it), but I can't see it being useful for much else.

I have absolutely no clue what's going on with the whole world war mechanic. I have no idea if what district I'm choosing affects anything or how it affects anything, I don't understand what causes a district to be won by either side, I don't know what the percentage bars are for each district are all about... at one point there both sides had 21/30 dark matter, after one or two rounds, it now said 21/110 for both sides. Progress is only occurring in NA as well, so I guess that will change once the hot spot changes?... I have no idea what's going on really, I just get to a game and then mash the A button after the end of a round until I start a new one. I'm not sure if there's going to be some kind of deeper mechanic to all this or if it's just all effectively pointless.

Still really enjoying the game though. It'll be a lot better when the match making is sped up

[jet1911]

What's the name of the weapon that create a kind of blue eletric bubble? I played a game today and the other team was using that. We couldn't get anywhere without being trapped in those things and killed almost instantly.

[Emitan]

What's the name of the weapon that create a kind of blue eletric bubble? I played a game today and the other team was using that. We couldn't get anywhere without being trapped in those things and killed almost instantly.

Swarm

[Jackson]

What's the name of the weapon that create a kind of blue eletric bubble? I played a game today and the other team was using that. We couldn't get anywhere without being trapped in those things and killed almost instantly.

Try rushing Swarm uers. Their weapon is only good at getting you if you stay low in your cover. But if you rush them with any competent weapon you'll destroy them.

[Emitan]

Try rushing Swarm uers. Their weapon is only good at getting you if you stay low in your cover. But if you rush them with any competent weapon you'll destroy them.

It's amazing how people can be taken completely off guard and destroyed by just being mobile. Most players like to find a good spot and hunker down. And then you blast them from behind.

[jet1911]

Try rushing Swarm uers. Their weapon is only good at getting you if you stay low in your cover. But if you rush them with any competent weapon you'll destroy them.

Good to know! :)

Oh and btw I love the shotgun, really fun to use. I always have a positive K/D when I use it.

[Surface of Me]

Good to know! :) Oh and btw I love the shotgun, really fun to use. I always have a positive K/D when I use it.

Using the double barreled shotgun with the ability that gives you health for damage is a great combo. Took out two guys easy with it.

[Jackson]

Using the double barreled shotgun with the ability that gives you health for damage is a great combo. Took out two guys easy with it.

DB shotty with infinite ammo and armored spec is fun too!

[electricpirate]

SAB CA and Pedro are both right, a progression system can be used to introduce new mechanics, and get people "Filling bars" and those are good things, but I think what I've seen here, the prorgression in Hybrid favors those who play more, way too much. The most egregious example is the passive buffs, which see some pretty dramatic improvements after a few levels. A new player with a level 1 armor buff going up against a dude with a level 5 armor buff is at a serious disadvantage. That generally gives the person who's played longer an extra one-two shots to get right.

For the weapons, I think they are generally okay. It seems to me like that second sniper rifle is OP (though I haven't used it, it seems like if someone on the other team has it, we are going to have a bad time). I just wish a few more of the "break people out of cover options" were available early on. I mean, you get frag nades (but a sniper can set up upside down) or the shotgun/armour combo (but the level 2 sniper seems like it still one shots you until you have a level 2 armour buff) but that's about it. So on defense grid, a good sniper pretty much will lock your team down. I'm not sure how exactly how that could be countered though. A lot of this could be solved by stronger matchmaking though, so I never feel like I lost because I was underpowered.

Still enjoying the game though, it hits a nice combination of simple gameplay, complex tactics. Wish I could get a party with some decent people (and when I did get a party it refused to match us until we split up), as I think the game would really shine. I love how each game is short, focussed and sweet. A game of Halo or COD generally runs 15 minutes, each match here is about 5-8 minutes of concentrated fun.

[Midnight Believer]

I will pm a code to the 1st person to quote me

[SAB CA]

Newbies entering the game 3 months down the line? Enjoy getting wiped not only by people who understand the game better, but also have more options with weapons or abilities, and they have stronger specializations. Or how about balancing? Balancing things when you just have one sandbox is hard enough, now you're trying to balance things with everyone coming in with different weapons, abilities and specializations? Nigh impossible.

Yeah, but dont you see? A progression system makes it so that "3 months down the line" matter happens later, and not from day 1.

I think you're just kinda ignoring the fact that the devs of this game saw fit to have an unlock system, and they designed the game around THAT, not "All tools unlocked, find what you like in the sandbox, and go at it!" They COULD have done that, sure, but we'd probably have fewer, more focused weapon types and abilities, if that's what they wanted to do.

I think we'll see, as the full game releases, a much different balance to the game. One that favors certain levels to play together, and then transforms the game gradually as you raise in ranks. If matchmaking deals with this properly, low, mid, and high level players should each have their own flavors of combat, and this should give the game much more long-term appeal, rather than the simply having the end-game sandbox being the only way to play, from day 1.

But we're arguing a fall choice here. There's nothing to say we can't both have what we want. Place a little unlock button somewhere, I press it and get everything, you don't and you get your progression curve, everyone's happy.

That wouldn't work in an online multiplayer game of this magnitude. The progression is purposely implimented to ease people into the game. If, from day one, you and a bunch of other gamers could basically throw yourselves to max level, while the other half of the community goes at it slower, that is detrimental to the entire community as a whole, as now it's unbalanced from day one.

Sure, it's unbalanced to a degree, as soon as some people play harder than others, but not in such an exaggerated way.

For the record, I never thought the game would have a progression system like this from previews. I thought it was going to be more like you envisioned, a very set set of weapons and abilities, and the whole game would just be about selecting character that had those abilities, and playing it from the onset.

But it's not like that. I'm mostly happy it's not, too! I love progression in games (dislike forced grinding, though), and I think this game, so far, feels more like it favors actual progress, rather than grind for the sake of grind.

Part of that stems from the fact that I don't know what lies ahead. Every item is a new surprise, and a fresh addition to gameplay. It enhances the experience, because it feels like the game is just getting deeper and deeper, when it started out feeling deep.

Even after then initial "THAT'S BROKEN! ARGH!!!" feeling of facing something new, I'm also seeing that MOST of what's here has a logical counter. With the ability to change loadouts every spawn, I really like this. It keeps the gameplay fresh, rather than the classic "Well, they picked the better options, WE'RE SCREWED!" aspect that such systems could create.

I don't want to say too much on it all after this, as I know these kind of discussion can end up in an endless loop, and everything is still in flux, as this is just a beta. I think we've both said enough to let the devs know how 2 opposite sides react to their decisions. Don't want to take it too far, and derail the thread into opposing game philosophy.

SAB CA and Pedro are both right, a progression system can be used to introduce new mechanics, and get people "Filling bars" and those are good things, but I think what I've seen here, the prorgression in Hybrid favors those who play more, way too much. The most egregious example is the passive buffs, which see some pretty dramatic improvements after a few levels. A new player with a level 1 armor buff going up against a dude with a level 5 armor buff is at a serious disadvantage. That generally gives the person who's played longer an extra one-two shots to get right.

You hit onto my major point with this; That a solid progress system just helps a game, and it's community growth and spirit. And you also acknowledge the other side, with the fact that it can backfire, if done wrong, which I agree with as well.

I think 5th Cell has done a great job overall, with the progress, but I also agree some of it might need more balance. Kinda hard to say exactly HOW (higher power shotgun earlier? mix up buffs a bit? Make the Preyon harder to get? EASIER to get?), but hopefully, testing in the wild makes some of this clear for them.

For the weapons, I think they are generally okay. It seems to me like that second sniper rifle is OP (though I haven't used it, it seems like if someone on the other team has it, we are going to have a bad time). I just wish a few more of the "break people out of cover options" were available early on. I mean, you get frag nades (but a sniper can set up upside down) or the shotgun/armour combo (but the level 2 sniper seems like it still one shots you until you have a level 2 armour buff) but that's about it. So on defense grid, a good sniper pretty much will lock your team down. I'm not sure how exactly how that could be countered though. A lot of this could be solved by stronger matchmaking though, so I never feel like I lost because I was underpowered.

Yeah, it's good to keep in mind that we have a small player base due to beta, so it's much more likely that we're getting put VS opponents we might never see in the full game, at certain levels. I'd like to see options to set level limits, or modes that force gameplay at certain levels, to allow only certain options into games. A bunch of mutators for matches could go a long way for a game like this.

I wonder if there are floating grenades in later levels? I would like a way to 'nade upsidedown snipers, as well. Would also be nice to get some active camo, to make it easier to advance on snipers in stages like Defense Array.

Still enjoying the game though, it hits a nice combination of simple gameplay, complex tactics. Wish I could get a party with some decent people (and when I did get a party it refused to match us until we split up), as I think the game would really shine. I love how each game is short, focussed and sweet. A game of Halo or COD generally runs 15 minutes, each match here is about 5-8 minutes of concentrated fun.

Aye, agreed. It's a great balance of twitchy arcadey fun, like something that would have been pretty comfortable alongside a Tokyo Wars arcade cabinet, or alongside Outtrigger on Dreamcast. I find such games easy to play for longer amounts of time, because it feels like you can get into them swiftly, have your fun, and go onto other things, without feeling like you have to rededicate a week of play to it, to feel like you got your time's worth out of it.

I will pm a code to the 1st person to quote me

I have a friend I'd love to get into the Beta, so I'd appreciate it, but understand it if you wanted to give it to someone without access at all :)

[Lyphen]

Quote of a code: