[Dreamwriter]

Wii, DS, and 3DS, I think.

In what way were DS and especially 3DS not "cutting edge"? Was there another handheld released before the DS that could do 3D in hardware? Sure, the PSP was more powerful, but that doesn't mean anything, in terms of power and abilities the DS was WAY more powerful than the previous generation. And 3DS is definitely what I'd consider cutting edge, it's quite a bit more powerful than PSP, it supports shader effects, its game sizes are measured in gigabytes rather than megabytes, it's powerful enough to look almost current-gen console quality even when rendering to three full screens at once, and of course there's nothing more cutting edge than 3D-without-glasses.

Nintendo has only released one game system that was clearly old tech, and that was the Wii. That's it. One system does not a trend make.

[Vinci]

I honestly don't think Sony can afford to. As much as we'd all like them to I also think the lack of serious uptake of PSV will confirm this with them. Gamers want games when all is said and done, and the minority want graphics. Just the minority have the loudest voice.

If Sony comes out with some technological marvel with a price tag to match, I will both laugh and cry simultaneously. Vita is at least reasonable from a cost standpoint. Going non-stop into tech progress with another console would be utterly ignorant. Not ambitious, not impressive, not stubbornly progressive. Ignorant.

I hope, for the sake of the company, that they behave reasonably with the PS4.

[Nilaul]

Making an console as powerful as PS3, seven years later is truelly a challenging challenge.

It must be really hard challenge selecting a modern processor that has only the power of a ps3, today.

Anyone can help find a graphics card in store that that would give me a ps3?

[Canova]

7 years too late and only on par with current gen consoles? Yeah that's Nintendo alright

[Glorified G]

And you base that in what...the one game system Nintendo released in their entire history that wasn't "cutting edge"? Oh wait, I'm wrong, the Nintendo TV-Game 6, their first game system, was only Pong quality in the Atari era. Guess you're right.

the one game system Nintendo released in their entire history that wasn't "cutting edge" was by far their most successful. So yeah, it kind of make sense why people think they would follow the same pattern.

[Gahiggidy]

I will be disappointed if Wii U has anything less than 2010 technology.

I'm not conversed in modern gaming technology, but I got to believe Nintendo can piece together a kit with a gpu/cpu/memory combo from 2010 that is affordable.

[udivision]

In what way were DS and especially 3DS not "cutting edge"? Was there another handheld released before the DS that could do 3D in hardware? Sure, the PSP was more powerful, but that doesn't mean anything, in terms of power and abilities the DS was WAY more powerful than the previous generation. And 3DS is definitely what I'd consider cutting edge, it's quite a bit more powerful than PSP, it supports shader effects, its game sizes are measured in gigabytes rather than megabytes, it's powerful enough to look almost current-gen console quality even when rendering to three full screens at once, and of course there's nothing more cutting edge than 3D-without-glasses. Nintendo has only released one game system that was clearly old tech, and that was the Wii. That's it. One system does not a trend make.

That's great and all but the existence of the PSP and PSV don't agree with those claims. Plus, when people say "cutting-edge" tech, they only mean how powerful a console is, not whether if it can levitate even though most people would consider that cutting-edge.

[Vinci]

the one game system Nintendo released in their entire history that wasn't "cutting edge" was by far their most successful. So yeah, it kind of make sense why people think they would follow the same pattern.

I'm not saying you're wrong to think this, but you do realize that strategies change over the course of time, right? That no strategy is out-and-out correct and appropriate regardless of the current state of the world, yes?

Again: You could very well be right. Just making sure this is understood, 'cause it's general policy within corporations to revisit their strategies routinely and consider if another is more appropriate.

[Shion]

And you base that in what...the one game system Nintendo released in their entire history that wasn't "cutting edge"? Oh wait, I'm wrong, the Nintendo TV-Game 6, their first game system, was only Pong quality in the Atari era. Guess you're right.

I base that on DS, Wii, 3DS and Nintendo's priorities since the launch of the original DS back in 2004.

Also, the "one" system you're talking about, happens to be Nintendo's most successful home console ever. Common sense suggests that Nintendo isn't going to return to its older philosophy just after the biggest success in the company's history.

I'd love for this to happen but, realistically speaking, I just can't see it happening.

[POWERSPHERE]

I find it hard to trust the opinion of a guy who talks like a 13 year old girl.

[guek]

Feel free to elaborate beyond a nonsensical image. People seem to be taking part of Capps quote to indicate the Wii U will be much more powerful than the current generation and that it contradicts the current quote. When it really it doesn't speak to the measure of technical leap, and they're ignoring the other part where he states that it's conceivable for the Wii U to be left behind its competitors from a technical perspective, resulting in difficulties in multiplatform development. As others have stated the Wii was beyond the 6th gen consoles, and yet it can still also be considered on par with the XBOX from a technical perspective.

Goddamnit. The problem is you can pick and choose whichever part you want to emphasize. These aren't empirical statements developers are making, and they're often painfully open to interpretation. Like many in this thread on both sides, you're twisting shit to fill your dumbass agenda.

Check this shit out.

"[Nintendo is] aiming for a point beyond the current generation – they're just not leapfrogging it. One can certainly envision a future a couple years down the road where we have some significantly leapfrogged generation and then the Wii U again becomes a system that's not easily portable between the other platforms"

OMG, look what Capps is saying guys! "Beyond the current generation"? Well we can put all these 360 comparisons to rest. Seriously, anyone who thinks otherwise is just kidding themselves. It's obviously not in the same league or he would have just said nintendo is bringing things up to par. Capps is also in a definite position to know just about everything there is to know about current wii u dev kits, so there's no room for questioning. And yeah, he says PS4/Nextbox might jump over Wii U, but notice how he said "can"? It's pretty clear he's not making a definitive statement. If he knew what MS and Sony were planning, why wouldn't he just say outright that porting to the Wii U from the other next gen consoles wouldn't be possible? Sounds to me like PS4/XB3 is in a state of flux. The main thing we should take away from this though is that Wii U is at least a half generational jump from 360, so about 4x or so, whereas PS4/XB3 will be around 8x. Hype!








See that? See that dumb shit? That's what you sound like.

[FullMetal]

I find it hard to trust the opinion of a guy who talks like a 13 year old girl.

I know right, you know?

[SapientWolf]

I find it hard to trust the opinion of a guy who talks like a 13 year old girl.

Are we really getting down to ad hominem attacks now?

[Dreamwriter]

That's great and all but the existence of the PSP and PSV don't agree with those claims. Plus, when people say "cutting-edge" tech, they only mean how powerful a console is, not whether if it can levitate even though most people would consider that cutting-edge.

So, do you think the Gamecube wasn't cutting edge because the XBox was more powerful than it? The fact that another system in the same generation is a bit more powerful doesn't mean anything. As for "power", that's very subjective. The Xbox had support for programmable pixel shaders, GameCube didn't, are you saying people would ignore that fact because it was a feature, not directly related to "power"? How about when talking about the SNES vs the Genesis, the SNES was a lousy 3.3Mhz compared to Genesis' 8Mhz plus coprocessor, yet the SNES was capable of many things the Genesis wasn't. Should we be discounting that, and saying the SNES wasn't cutting edge for its time?

[MadOdorMachine]

In what way were DS and especially 3DS not "cutting edge"? Was there another handheld released before the DS that could do 3D in hardware? Sure, the PSP was more powerful, but that doesn't mean anything, in terms of power and abilities the DS was WAY more powerful than the previous generation. And 3DS is definitely what I'd consider cutting edge, it's quite a bit more powerful than PSP, it supports shader effects, its game sizes are measured in gigabytes rather than megabytes, it's powerful enough to look almost current-gen console quality even when rendering to three full screens at once, and of course there's nothing more cutting edge than 3D-without-glasses. Nintendo has only released one game system that was clearly old tech, and that was the Wii. That's it. One system does not a trend make.

When I look at 3DS vs PSP, aside from some shaders/effects, to my eyes there is very little difference. In fact PSP might edge it out in some areas. That's more than one system and it is a trend.

Making an console as powerful as PS3, seven years later is truelly a challenging challenge. It must be really hard challenge selecting a modern processor that has only the power of a ps3, today. Anyone can help find a graphics card in store that that would give me a ps3?

Yet Nintendo released Wii fives years after Xbox and they're arguably the same level. I expect Wii U to be to Xbox 360 what Wii was to GC. It'll be more powerful and capable than 360, but it won't be a huge difference.

[JJConrad]

Of course. <3 Darksiders.

I don't think you were being cynical, but I do think you were being careless. I struggle to see how out of that entire interview that section was the only section that was thread worthy. I also don't understand why that quote can be viewed as the company's assessment of the hardware. It's their Hand-On event, the guy was there to talk about DS2's gameplay. In the interview the guy couldn't speak to the development side of the project, basically falling back on previously made comments. Even if he could, it was neither the time or place to make such a statement about Nintendo's system. I don't know if you knew about their past comments, but what he did say here was still pretty ambiguous. So, given the nature of GAF, this is the type of topic that I might have typed out, but I'd never actually hit submit to.

[Nilaul]

When I look at 3DS vs PSP, aside from some shaders/effects, to my eyes there is very little difference. In fact PSP might edge it out in some areas. That's more than one system and it is a trend. Yet Nintendo released Wii fives years after Xbox and they're arguably the same level. I expect Wii U to be to Xbox 360 what Wii was to GC. It'll be more powerful and capable than 360, but it won't be a huge difference.

With modern shaders and tesselation. I guess.

[Dreamwriter]

I base that on DS, Wii, 3DS and Nintendo's priorities since the launch of the original DS back in 2004.

Do you have any quotes or links to information stating what Nintendo's priorities for the DS and 3DS were? If you read the Iwata Asks series about the 3DS development, you can see that the system was designed first and foremost as a graphical powerhouse, with the GPU chosen for its amazing abilities while still not eating up too much battery power, and later they added 3D.

[shinra-bansho]

See that? See that dumb shit? That's what you sound like.

Except it's not.

Goddamnit. The problem is you can pick and choose whichever part you want to emphasize. These aren't empirical statements developers are making, and they're often painfully open to interpretation.

My comment's intention was exactly that, to show that the statement is perfectly amenable to interpretation that doesn't contradict the current statement.

Yet people are posting it as some sort of smoking gun against the current statement. It's not necessarily a contradicting statement.

[udivision]

So, do you think the Gamecube wasn't cutting edge because the XBox was more powerful than it? The fact that another system in the same generation is a bit more powerful doesn't mean anything. As for "power", that's very subjective. The Xbox had support for programmable pixel shaders, GameCube didn't, are you saying people would ignore that fact because it was a feature, not directly related to "power"? How about when talking about the SNES vs the Genesis, the SNES was a lousy 3.3Mhz compared to Genesis' 8Mhz plus coprocessor, yet the SNES was capable of many things the Genesis wasn't. Should we be discounting that, and saying the SNES wasn't cutting edge for its time?

It maybe stupid, and it may not even make sense, but what I'm saying is when someone says Nintendo doesn't make cutting-edge hardware I know exactly what they're talking about.

[IcyRhythms]

If developers optimize the power it won't matter how much less it has than Xbox 3 and PS4.

The only games that will TRULY show what it can do will be Nintendo's first party titles, anyway.

[guek]

Except it's not. My comment's intention was exactly that, to show that the statement is perfectly amenable to interpretation that doesn't contradict the current statement. Yet people are posting it as some sort of smoking gun against the current statement.

"It's not open to interpretation!

My interpretation should be noted!"

[shinra-bansho]

"It's not open to interpretation!

Where did you get that from my statement whatsoever? Good god.

[Shion]

Do you have any quotes or links to information stating what Nintendo's priorities for the DS and 3DS were?

I don't have links, I have Nintendo's (well known) actions since the DS days. Actions speak louder than words anyway. I could give you a YouTube link with Iwata's famous quote:

When you turn on Revolution and see the graphics, you will say, "Wow.

What would that prove?

[bigtroyjon]

See that? See that dumb shit? That's what you sound like.

Once you start insulting people because of this silly thread, that's a sign that you care about this way too much. No need to be melting down.

[Durante]

Do you have any quotes or links to information stating what Nintendo's priorities for the DS and 3DS were? If you read the Iwata Asks series about the 3DS development, you can see that the system was designed first and foremost as a graphical powerhouse, with the GPU chosen for its amazing abilities while still not eating up too much battery power, and later they added 3D.

If Nintendo truly intended the 3DS to be a "graphical powerhouse" then they failed spectacularly. How else would you describe cell phones releasing at the same time as your gaming portable offering clearly superior cpu and graphics performance?

[guek]

Where did you get that from my statement whatsoever? Good god.

When you bolded "open to interpretation" and then immediately stated "it's not." Come on. This isn't hard.

[Maxrunner]

If Nintendo truly intended the 3DS to be a "graphical powerhouse" then they failed spectacularly. How else would you describe cell phones releasing at the same time as your gaming portable offering superior graphics performance?

Really??most of these cost 600€ its the same ipad shit already discussed...

[hatchx]

If Nintendo truly intended the 3DS to be a "graphical powerhouse" then they failed spectacularly. How else would you describe cell phones releasing at the same time as your gaming portable offering clearly superior cpu and graphics performance?

179.99 price point VS 499.99

3D display?

[Dash Kappei]

Nirolak, I just think you chose a bad thread title honestly. I don't think any sane person would accuse you of trolling on purpose or being a Nintendo hater.
The original interview leaves a lot up to interpretation and the title is taken out of context and make for a flame-bait thread.

Based on what I understand, the, you know, the resolution and textures and polycounts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to uprez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure.

Can mean anything really. It doesn't say we can't do that, it can easily be read as "we won't bother/take advantage of such features with this port but we will use/take advantage of the tablet features".
"[our work with]DS2 WiiU has been on par with the current generation". He seems to imply he's specifically addressing their development of this port, not generalizing. Again, it's up to interpretation and I don't think it necessarily makes sense if taken out of context.

[shinra-bansho]

When you bolded "open to interpretation" and then immediate stated "it's not." Come on. This isn't hard.

Oh. "Except it's not" was in reference to you claiming what I wrote was equivalent to your crazed rant trying to ridicule me.

The bolded was what I was responding to with this:

"My comment's intention was exactly that, to show that the statement is perfectly amenable to interpretation that doesn't contradict the current statement."

It was admittedly ambiguous in retrospect. :/

[?oe?oe]

Wait, did anyone actually read the interview? It talks about how working with the Wii U is going? And they say it's on par with with current generation and they're not going to use the extra power, but focus on the controller instead...

EDIT: beaten with sophistication.

[Nirolak]

I don't think you were being cynical, but I do think you were being careless. I struggle to see how out of that entire interview that section was the only section that was thread worthy.

The interest on the forum in Darksiders 2 has been very anemic. If you don't believe me, do a title search for "Darksiders".

There are a lot of games I like and am interested in that I don't make threads for simply because almost no one is interested in reading or responding to them.

I also don't understand why that quote can be viewed as the company's assessment of the hardware. It's their Hand-On event, the guy was there to talk about DS2's gameplay. In the interview the guy couldn't speak to the development side of the project, basically falling back on previously made comments. Even if he could, it was neither the time or place to make such a statement about Nintendo's system. I don't know if you knew about their past comments, but what he did say here was still pretty ambiguous.

Basically every statement made about the Wii U is ambiguous. If we're going to get rid of ambiguous news reporting, we might as well close every Wii U related thread on the forum and wait until E3. I don't think this is a helpful or useful policy, but if people want to lobby for this to happen, they may PM me with well thought out requests for consideration, or if they feel I am biased, PM Stumpokapow and charlequin.

So, given the nature of GAF, this is the type of topic that I might have typed out, but I'd never actually hit submit to.

If your argument is that posters aren't mature enough to handle having a thread like this in existence, the problem is the posters, not the thread.

That is ultimately a moderation issue, but I will note that we examine post histories and previous records when deciding ban length.

[Coolwhip]

We have a thread about the wiiu being better and one about the wiiu being on par with current gen. Don't we need one for it being worse?

[Durante]

Really??most of these cost 600€ its the same ipad shit already discussed...

3DS did cost 250€ on its release day and was a lot slower than phones available on that same day.

In comparison, Vita cost 250€ on its release day and was faster than any phone available on that same day. It's also ~10 times faster than 3DS, and I don't think you can ignore that kind of gap because of the difference in release dates.

As I said, if Nintendo intended for their device to be a graphical powerhouse they failed.

[guek]

Oh. "Except it's not" was in reference to you claiming what I wrote was equivalent to your crazed rant trying to ridicule me. :/

My point is you can spin this either way. I was being hyperbolic, sure, but that's how people sound to me when they use off the cuff interview comments, focus on one part that like, and play down the rest. You're right, you could say that Capps is referring to a xbox1 -> wii situation. Or he may not be. Or he could actually know less than we assume. Or he could be playing an alpha build of Gears of War 4 on xbox3 right fucking now.

The only empirically factual thing about what Capps said is that Wii U, at the time of the interview, was targeting something greater than PS360. Just because he can imagine a similar wii/ps360 scenario doesn't necessarily mean he presently has enough knowledge to make that kind of call for sure. Or maybe he does. You can spin it either way as hard as you want.

[DCharlie]

Do you have any quotes or links to information stating what Nintendo's priorities for the DS and 3DS were?

not specifically for DS/3DS but the pre-Wii TGS Iwata keynote documents their belief that chasing cutting edge technology was a dead end avenue.

[Rezbit]

Not really a big deal for me. The games are what matters, I have my decent PC for the high-end graphics.

I'm still thinking Xbox 3 won't be a huge leap in technology after the success with Kinect. Soon find out about all 3 I guess!

Also, I am looking forward to Darksiders 2. Liked the first one without loving it, but I did feel like with some improvement it could have been great.

[maquiladora]

If your argument is that posters aren't mature enough to handle having a thread like this in existence, the problem is the posters, not the thread.

Nirolak nails it.

I'm amazed at some of the reactions in this thread.

[Dash Kappei]

We have a thread about the wiiu being better and one about the wiiu being on par with current gen. Don't we need one for it being worse?

We already had that one :P
At the E3 reveal many, many gaffers were posting how (the 360/PS3) footage looked worst than their 360/PS3 versions, Darksiders2 trailer was specifically mentioned quite a bit.

[Yagharek]

Nirolak nails it. I'm amazed at some of the reactions in this thread.

I'm not surprised. Some topics make rational discussion difficult for a lot of people. At least there are those in this thread that are looking at the whole interview in context.

Personally I don't really care how powerful it is, though I expect it to be moderately more so than ps360. Beyond that, give me VC transfers and I'm happy.

[lowrider007]

Really not bothered tbh, I never really expected the wii-u to be a graphics power house, the dimensions of the system alone gave that away, anyway can you imagine what Mario Galaxy for example would look like taking full advantage of 360/PS3 level hardware, stunning imo, first party Nintendo games will as always wow us no matter the hardware.

[freddy]

textures! self-shadowing! real-time lighting! 720p! ninthings talking about computer graphics stuff like they know a thang

[IrishNinja]

We have a thread about the wiiu being better and one about the wiiu being on par with current gen. Don't we need one for it being worse?

in the interest of fairness, i think it's high time we talked about this possibility.
what if the WU turns out to be unsold gamecubes, reconfiguring those monstrous keyboard-controller hybrids into tablet-like controllers?
i for one will celebrate - i never did get around to PN03, metroid prime 2 and a few others, and any online system should suffice, really. plus, it's a second chance at me finding a component cable!

[Anasui Kishibe]

Really not bothered tbh, I never really expected the wii-u to be a graphics power house, the dimensions of the system alone gave that away, anyway can you imagine what Mario Galaxy for example would look like taking full advantage of 360/PS3 level hardware, stunning imo, first party Nintendo games will as always wow us no matter the hardware.

the GC was tiny yet on par with the Xbox...ok, maybe slightly less but still

[USC-fan]

Surprise this is even news. Thought this was common knowledge by now.

[jetsetfluken]

So basically it's getting closer to the truth that the Wii U in 2012 will be as powerful as the Wii could have been in 2006.

By 2016 when the PS4/Nextbox are in motion, the Wii U will be using 10+ year old technology.

Essentially in these terms, the Wii U would be almost exactly one generation behind.

Hoping it's only half-true or something, was thinking Wii U would be at least noticably more powerful than PS3/360. Not even halfway as powerful as the PS4/Nextbox maybe, but at least an improvement so we can start seeing more out of the Nintendo 1st party games.

For example, with Zelda Skyward Sword, it really just feels like a Gamecube-era game. Not necessarily only the graphics, but the size of the game. I can only imagine how much more wondrous the sky world would have been with more powerful specs to work with, but instead we're left with 4-5 little islands with hardly anything on them that makes Wind Waker's ocean look supremely vast in comparison. Wind Waker came out in 2003.

[impact]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/cmDHs.jpg[IMG]

Quite accurate

[Thunder Monkey]

So basically it's getting closer to the truth that the Wii U in 2012 will be as powerful as the Wii could have been in 2006. By 2016 when the PS4/Nextbox are in motion, the Wii U will be using 10+ year old technology. Hoping it's only half-true or something, was thinking Wii U would be at least noticably more powerful than PS3/360. Not even halfway as powerful as the PS4/Nextbox may be, but at least an improvement so we can start seeing more out of the Nintendo 1st party games. For example, with Zelda Skyward Sword, it really just feels like a Gamecube-era game. Not necessarily only the graphics, but the size of the game. I can only imagine how much more wondrous the sky world would have been with more powerful specs to work with, but instead we're left with 4-5 little islands with hardly anything on them that makes Wind Waker's ocean look supremely vast in comparison. Wind Waker came out in 2003.

In 2016 the WiiU will be using tech that is at most of four to five years old.

The 3DS outputs visuals right about par with high end Xbox games. That does not make the hardware 11 years old.

Now if you want to say "The WiiU will be producing games a generation removed from Fusion/PS4." That much is potentially true.

[DXB-KNIGHT]

E3 can't come soon enough, the excitement is overwhelming and the Zelda gif just add insult to injury.