[RatskyWatsky]

Anything important happen this episode? I still gotta watch it.

Yes...

...

?

[Nappuccino]

Uh....if you didn't watch it then you don't have any idea what his intentions were or what the context of the situation was. And since this is a series and not a movie, there could still be a lot more about that specific decision that we haven't learned yet. Some things get unraveled at a slow pace with this show, like it or not.

No duh. I'm extrapolating from what people have said here. It isn't rocket science.

[RatskyWatsky]

No duh. I'm extrapolating from what people have said here. It isn't rocket science.

Basically, Holder didn't try to plant fake evidence to mislead the investigation. He wanted to see if the cops were crooked so he planted a fake backpack and the test results came back as if he had given them the real one.

[Memphis Reigns]

No duh. I'm extrapolating from what people have said here. It isn't rocket science.

No, it isn't rocket science, but your argument and opinions don't hold much credibility to the discussion if you haven't seen it.

[Nappuccino]

No, it isn't rocket science, but your argument and opinions don't hold much credibility to the discussion if you haven't seen it. I rest my case :p

All you had to say was "that isn't what happened" instead of being a dick about it :P

I, for one, am not going to waste my time watching the show. I spent enough time doing that last year. However, I will enjoy reading about what happens vicariously for better or worse. If you don't get that, then I can't do anything to help you get that.

[Memphis Reigns]

All you had to say was "that isn't what happened" instead of being a dick about it :P I, for one, am not going to waste my time watching the show. I spent enough time doing that last year. However, I will enjoy reading about what happens vicariously for better or worse. If you don't get that, then I can't do anything to help you get that.

You never asked what really happened, just kept making assumptions and saying you didn't need to see it to know what really went on.

[Nappuccino]

You never asked what really happened, just kept making assumptions and saying you didn't need to see it to know what really went on.

Uh... two posts isn't "kept making assumptions" It is me following up because what you said didn't make any sense to me. Now it does. You're acting as if I'm trying to shit up the thread. Instead I just made a comment based what I knew of last season.

Silly me for assuming the show wouldn't start season 2 on revealing another red herring.

I mean, goddamn, if anything, that just proves the show hasn't learned a thing and watching it is a waste of my time.

[RatskyWatsky]

Silly me for assuming the show wouldn't start season 2 on revealing another red herring.

What red herring?

[Nappuccino]

What red herring?

That Holden was planting evidence to frame the guy, making him out to be a rogue cop. But instead he's doing it to sniff out corruption in the police force, good cop.

Last season, I would have sworn that Holden was some how tied to the murder and was attempting to cover evidence / lead police the wrong way. Now we know he isn't.

[Memphis Reigns]

You're acting as if I'm trying to shit up the thread.

No offense but yeah it kind of came across like that. You came into the thread bashing the episode without seeing it and stated that watching the show is a complete waste of your time. Why post in here if that is the case?

[Nappuccino]

No offense but yeah it kind of came across like that. You came into the thread bashing the episode without seeing it and stated that watching the show is a complete waste of your time. Why post in here?

You have some very miss placed notion of "bashing."

At no point did I say "this show fucking sucks why is it on tv" or anything like that before you responded my post. I merely made the observation that the show hadn't changed (which, for me is a negative yes. For others who enjoy red herrings and not believable but potentially interesting plot developments, that is a good thing).

I only stated that i didn't feel it was worth my time after you asked why I hadn't watched it. If the viewer response is good, I'll give it a shot again. However, so far, it doesn't seem like it has fixed my issues with the show, so no, I won't watch it.

[RatskyWatsky]

Technically the red herring was in the season finale, not in the premiere.

[Memphis Reigns]

You have some very miss placed notion of "bashing." At no point did I say "this show fucking sucks why is it on tv" or anything like that before you responded my post. I merely made the observation that the show hadn't changed (which, for me is a negative yes. For others who enjoy red herrings and not believable but potentially interesting plot developments, that is a good thing). I only stated that i didn't feel it was worth my time after you asked why I hadn't watched it. If the viewer response is good, I'll give it a shot again. However, so far, it doesn't seem like it has fixed my issues with the show, so no, I won't watch it.

Yeah, you're right.

Do I have to? I'd rather not kill myself.

Not bashing at all.

[Nappuccino]

Not bashing at all.

Again, that was after you asked me if I had watched it. Which is exactly what I said in my post.

You are Veena Suds, aren't you?

edit: this is silly, and I'd rather not be banned for derailing this thread. You're free to think I'm bashing this show for no good reason. I don't really mind. Just, next time, call me out when I actually do it.

Technically the red herring was in the season finale, not in the premiere.

Sorry. I meant that it was revealed to be a red herring in the premiere. I can see how what I said could be misconstrued a bit there.

[Memphis Reigns]

Again, that was after you asked me if I had watched it. Which is exactly what I said in my post.

Why does that matter? The point I'm making is that you came across like you were bashing the show. Stating that watching the show would be "killing yourself" can definitely be considered bashing, no matter when you said it.

[darkwing]

wow, liking the progress so far, another series to follow

[RatskyWatsky]

I hope AMC announces what the ratings were later today. I'm so curious and I don't want to wait until tomorrow.

[Saty]

How did you gather Holder was flushing out the dirty cops from always? Seemed to me he had a change of heart or something in these episodes.

No improvement to report of S2. The family scenes are awful and so is the one who's playing Stan.
Belko killing himself for nothing, shock value for shock value. Who cares. Quit staring at me like thatx10 lol. Couldn't not chuckle, ditto when Larsen was punching the cabin.

Aimless hospital-waiting-room scenes. The guy was *really* worried about Darren waking up with no doctor there to 'break the news'. He kept bugging the staff.

Darren not the culprit. His reasons for keeping the evidence that would have vindicated him to himself were not satisfactory at all. And he didn't have to say he had attempted a suicide at that night. Could have said he dropped the ring in the water and went in looking for it.

Evidence keep popping up as if the show is holding them back for convenience. The photos from Rosie's camera were with the police for ages and seems like only now their lame tech department finally noticed the image in the bike's mirror.

[NaM]

One of the main issues that I, and a lot of others had with the finale was Holder's seeming betrayal of Linden, but they cleared that up fairly well. His betrayal in the finale turned out to be a red herring, but I'm actually glad about it this time, as it's much truer to his character this way. For a split second it seemed as if they had ruined his character in the finale, but it turns out that they didn't after all. So hooray for that.

I had the same problem. I liked the way they "solved" it, could have been a lot worse. The best 2 characters of the show are Linden and Holder, and I think after watching the first 2 episodes the way they setup their relationship for the rest of the season seems pretty solid if they go the way I think it will go. We have to wait and see, but I'll be watching next Sunday. BTW love the camera work, it complements great with the atmosphere.

[Dan]

I hope AMC announces what the ratings were later today. I'm so curious and I don't want to wait until tomorrow.

Down 33% from the S1 premiere. Down 47% when you take into account the multiple broadcasts.

Additional data here: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...ratings-306883

Evidence keep popping up as if the show is holding them back for convenience. The photos from Rosie's camera were with the police for ages and seems like only now their lame tech department finally noticed the image in the bike's mirror.

It wasn't even that they just noticed it. They weren't supposed to analyze it themselves. They just had to blow it up for the detectives, which somehow managed to take a full week to do.

[WARP10CK]

I liked the season 2 premiere I will definetly watch next sunday as well.
BTW how many think Stan will bang Terry ? his wife basicly said i´m out and left where the hell did Mitch go ?

[ZoddGutts]

Down 33% from the S1 premiere. Down 47% when you take into account the multiple broadcasts. Additional data here: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...ratings-306883

But but the executives said that only 1% wouldn't return to watch the series. lol

[Foliorum Viridum]

That rating drop is beautiful and considering it was the first ep you can expect it to drop further, probably.

I watched it. Nothing better to do. Wasn't impressed. The "I didn't want people to know I tried to kill myself but I'm a-OK with people thinking I murdered a teen girl" scene had me fucking screaming on the inside. When you think about bad writing, that takes the cake. Jesus FUCKING CHRIST.

Bad writing aside, there's nothing I care about. I don't care that she doesn't trust her partner anymore, I don't care that maybe he is being manipulated by his higher ups who are corrupt, I don't care about the girl's family... I don't care about anything.

Basically, it did nothing to win me over and only cemented my view this show will never be anything other than a pile of shit. It joins Dexter in the list of shows I abandon before it gives me brain damage. I don't even care enough to follow this thread to find out how it ends beyond this post.

[RatskyWatsky]

Down 33% from the S1 premiere. Down 47% when you take into account the multiple broadcasts. Additional data here: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...ratings-306883

1.8 million 0.5 A18-49

I think the fact that it didn't grow at all is probably worrying for AMC. I'm sure they're not really surprised, but since the second seasons of their other shows were up, I'm wondering how low it would have to drop for AMC to cancel it? Or perhaps AMC won't be satisfied even if it stays at this level?

[Dan]

1.8 million 0.5 A18-49 I think the fact that it didn't grow at all is probably worrying for AMC. I'm sure they're not really surprised, but since the second seasons of their other shows were up, I'm wondering how low it would have to drop for AMC to cancel it? Or perhaps AMC won't be satisfied even if it stays at this level?

AMC will use the reveal of the killer as an excuse to end the series.

[Tron 2.0]

I guess people really hated last season and the uproar wasn't just a product of the internet echo chamber like I assumed it was.

I find schadenfreude distasteful, but I can't say I'm sad to see it tank.

[Chiggs]

I find schadenfreude distasteful, but I can't say I'm sad to see it tank.

Same here. It's a terrible show and I can't wait until its replaced by something of higher quality.

[dave is ok]

Fitting that the dropoff was on an episode written by Veena Sud.

[RatskyWatsky]

Same here. It's a terrible show and I can't wait until its replaced by something of higher quality.

Like Hell on Wheels!

Fitting that the dropoff was on an episode written by Veena Sud.

She only wrote the first episode though.

[Tron 2.0]

Like Hell on Wheels!

Holy god that show is bad. I stopped after the second episode. I'm surprised they gave it a second season.

Really, AMC is lucky they have Mad Men and Breaking Bad.

[RatskyWatsky]

Really, AMC is lucky they have Mad Men and Breaking Bad.

Well, and The Walking Dead. It's a huge money maker for them.

[-Pyromaniac-]

I thought the 2 hours was OK. It wasn't offensive enough to piss me off, but at the same time, I didn't think it was that good. Will continue though of course.

[Seanspeed]

I hate coming onto GAF threads about TV shows. I think the show is pretty great. Holder is one of my favorite TV characters.

[brianjones]

I thought the 2 hours was OK. It wasn't offensive enough to piss me off, but at the same time, I didn't think it was that good. Will continue though of course.

yeah pretty much

i dont really remember a lot about how it ended so i was pretty confused about some stuff like why linden is mad at holder

[Seanspeed]

yeah pretty much i dont really remember a lot about how it ended so i was pretty confused about some stuff like why linden is mad at holder

The picture that he brought to her(that they talked about for much of the show) that implicated Richmond was fake and she figured it out. She thinks he's part of the conspiracy, but it turned out he was just a pawn in the grand scheme.

[Tron 2.0]

Well, and The Walking Dead. It's a huge money maker for them.

I totally spaced on The Walking Dead. You're right. It's not critically loved like the other two, but it's not bad.

[dead souls]

Like Hell on Wheels!

Exactly. Once Breaking Bad and Mad Men finish AMC will be totally off my radar. What an awful channel.

I wish they had one tenth the development ability of FX.

[ivysaur12]

Walking Dead has been getting progressively better. I'll give it some leeway for now.

But Hell on Wheels is a piece of shit. And The Killing could be so good... but it's not.

[Memphis Reigns]

What an awful channel. .

Wat. You don't like a series they air so it's an awful channel all of a sudden? It airs great movies and most of their series are pretty damn good and overall AMC is among one of the best of the basic cable channels.

[RatskyWatsky]

It airs great movies and most of their series are pretty damn good and overall AMC is among one of the best of the basic cable channels.

They air the same movie over and over again, with commercials every 5 minutes. The movies on AMC are unwatchable.

[Memphis Reigns]

They air the same movie over and over again, with commercials every 5 minutes. The movies on AMC are unwatchable.

Well, I watch them all the time with no issues. They always update the batch they air and will play them for a week or so, but they are always good movies. The commercials are no more of a problem than any other basic cable channel and I think all channels air too many commercials too often, but thats another story.

[Balphon]

I watched it. Nothing better to do. Wasn't impressed. The "I didn't want people to know I tried to kill myself but I'm a-OK with people thinking I murdered a teen girl" scene had me fucking screaming on the inside. When you think about bad writing, that takes the cake. Jesus FUCKING CHRIST.

Eh? That's not the choice the character was presented with, unless you think he should've been prescient about the fact that an elaborate conspiracy to frame him was afoot. His decision to stonewall an apparently incompetent (but actually corrupt) police department which had already leaked other information he'd given it seems logical enough to me.

And even that's assuming this guy is making completely rational decisions where his emotional attachment to his wife is involved.

[Saty]

He means Darren is seemingly ok with being accused and charged for a murder he didn't commit only because the alibi that acquits him would tank his political campaign. What about the murder charge that he is facing, that won't tank his campaign as well? Silly.

And like i said, if he's that worried about the truth leaking out he could have changed it just a bit to save face (losing the ring in the water and entering to find it).
There's also something to be said about the crab fisherman who was there with Darren not coming forth at all to his defense when the latter was first charged\arrested.

[Balphon]

He means Darren is seemingly ok with being accused and charged for a murder he didn't commit only because the alibi that acquits him would tank his political campaign. What about the murder charge that he is facing, that won't tank his campaign as well? Silly.

I understand that. However, like I said before, the only way this supposed incongruity appears is if you assume Darren at some point knew he was going to be accused, arrested, and charged with the murder if he didn't provide his alibi and was able to do so. Given the fact that police didn't latch onto him as a suspect until the 11th hour, that would've required some amazing, credulity-straining foreknowledge concerning the depth of the police corruption and/or apparent conspiracy against him on his part, since it's obvious that he knows he didn't kill Rosie Larsen. Whereas he could be sure that if he told the police about his alibi, they'd leak it to the press, as they were more than willing to do with other information he'd disclosed to them.

Or, to put it another way, it seems odd to accuse the show of bad writing because the main characters aren't psychic at plot-critical moments, particularly when there are other, more legitimate bases for doing so. Though, admittedly, with the way this show enjoys jerking the audience around I wouldn't be surprised if another twist comes up that makes Darren's actions seem counterproductive and absurd.

[Seanspeed]

They air the same movie over and over again, with commercials every 5 minutes. The movies on AMC are unwatchable.

Thats really not much different than movies from any other channel thats not HBO/Showtime/etc.

[Saty]

I understand that. However, like I said before, the only way this supposed incongruity appears is if you assume Darren at some point knew he was going to be accused, arrested, and charged with the murder if he didn't provide his alibi and was able to do so. Given the fact that police didn't latch onto him as a suspect until the 11th hour, that would've required some amazing, credulity-straining foreknowledge concerning the depth of the police corruption and/or apparent conspiracy against him on his part, since it's obvious that he knows he didn't kill Rosie Larsen. Whereas he could be sure that if he told the police about his alibi, they'd leak it to the press, as they were more than willing to do with other information he'd disclosed to them. Or, to put it another way, it seems odd to accuse the show of bad writing because the main characters aren't psychic at plot-critical moments, particularly when there are other, more legitimate bases for doing so. Though, admittedly, with the way this show enjoys jerking the audience around I wouldn't be surprised if another twist comes up that makes Darren's actions seem counterproductive and absurd.

I don't quite remember how Darren's arrest went by, but the point is he should have told them immediately what he did that night and offer than fisherman as a witness.

[dead souls]

Wat. You don't like a series they air so it's an awful channel all of a sudden? It airs great movies and most of their series are pretty damn good and overall AMC is among one of the best of the basic cable channels.

The got extremely lucky picking up two shows that should have went to other networks (Mad Men/Breaking Bad) and everything they've developed since then is awful. They suck.

[RatskyWatsky]

Thats really not much different than movies from any other channel thats not HBO/Showtime/etc.

That's why every other movie channel is shit too. TCM, HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc. are the only good ones because they don't have commercials.

[Ignatz Mouse]

I hate coming onto GAF threads about TV shows. I think the show is pretty great. Holder is one of my favorite TV characters.

I like the characters, the acting, the cinematography, the setting, and the premise.

It's the horrible horrible plotting that I can't stand.

Didn't see the premiere, just here to see what I am (or not) missing.

[-Pyromaniac-]

Holder is the shit, can't even front on that.