[Somnid]

You know your talking about Mario vs GOW and Syphon Filter. Whether it was a B team or their AAA team, it was going to sell. Hypothetically, did it really matter what team did Kid Icarus?

Nobody knows what Kid Icarus is. Nintendo's advertising campaign specifically says it's "From the creator of Super Smash Bros." So probably. That and Project Sora is an S-rank dev team and it's high quality will probably help the sales legs.

[impact]

Oh for fuck's sake, really? Are we going to go down a list looking for the PSP spin-offs that weren't done by a B team now?

What are you even talking about? Btw, Uncharted and Modnation are the only launch Vita games done by "B teams"

[remnant]

Ok, I see your point. So Wipeout and Hot Shots Golf are treated right and Uncharted and Resistance are ghetto. Though to be honest, Sony is probably afraid of watering down their console franchises. If they make a God Of War 4 by Santa Monica Studios for Vita or Uncharted 4 by Naughty Dog for Vita a lot of people would complain. Nintendo does not have that problem, since everyone caring about Mario has a 3DS. If Sony would do that either everyone caring about GoW and Uncharted would get a Vita and give it a boost or people don't care about GoW and Uncharted anymore and it would hurt the PS3/PS4. And Sony is afraid of the latter scenario.

And that's why no one gives a crap when a PS franchise jumps to PSP. Sony doesn't care so consumers don't take. The PSP is second fiddle, as compared to nintendo handhelds which are a strong compliment to the home console.

[DangerousDave]

What are you even talking about? Btw, Uncharted and Modnation are the only launch Vita games done by "B teams"

We should really stop calling Bend a "B team". Bend showed a lot of times, with their Syphon Filter or Resistance PSP games, and also with Uncharted, that they're a highly professional team that knows better how to bend (pun intended) the limits of the portable consoles . I don't think that Bend is a more B-team than, for example, Zipper, or Insomniac.

[KAL2006]

And that's why no one gives a crap when a PS franchise jumps to PSP. Sony doesn't care so consumers don't take. The PSP is second fiddle, as compared to nintendo handhelds which are a strong compliment to the home console.

You are forgetting a Uncharted or GoW game does not translate as well on a hamdheld as well as Mario. Uncharted 4 made by Naughty Dog will always seem inferior to a console Uncharted no matter what as these types of games are more about immersion, story, graphics and etc. That is why we get spin offs by other developers so we still get a decent game of course not as good as the console sequels but good enough to satisfy fans while the main developers make the proper sequels on consoles. Of course games that translate well on handhelds should have a proper sequel made by the original developers. Which is happening anyway, for example WipeOut and Hotshots Golf. Unfortunately Sony do not have many IPs as Nintendo which translate to handhelds well. I think makimg a few spin offs from outsourced developers is okay as there is a market for that, however they need to to create new IPs and try to make a game with Nintendo's philosophy, easy to play and addictive.

[Pie and Beans]

Sony actually support their consoles through their entire duration rather than the sudden death of first party support all Nintendo boxes and handhelds enjoy. Investing in other teams to bring established franchises is a good way of keeping the clock ticking and letting other people cut their teeth and become known for quality. Nintendo themselves have done it in the past with Yoshi's Island DS (not good results), and now again with Luigi's Mansion 2 -- with hopefully better results.

Uncharted Golden Abyss, I found, to be a far better game than Uncharted 3 for instance.

Sure Nintendo's first party devs have dragged their talents over onto the 3DS, but then there'll be a far bigger hole left by them now going on to focus on the WiiU, than what the PS3 -> Vita -> PS4 changeovers will experience. Sony actually keep two platforms running with a good amount of first party content at the same time rather than one or the other.

[Agent X]

Regardless, my point is that when Nintendo puts their main franchises on their handhelds, they do it with their main teams. Sony does not.

There have been many cases of Sony putting their "main" teams on PSP entries of their established franchises. Some notable examples would be Wipeout, Twisted Metal, Syphon Filter, Killzone, Hot Shots Golf, and MLB: The Show.

Even in many cases where the "main" team wasn't on the project (such as with God of War and Resistance), the games still turned out well.

Isn't Wipeout done by the same team?

Yeah, It's also a sequel to a PSN game. It's the equivalent of Pokemon Rumble Blast.

Huh? Wipeout as a franchise existed long before the "PSN game" you're referring to.

Ironically, that "PSN game" is also widely regarded as one of the best entries in the series, and is often cited as a prime example of how a downloadable game can match the quality of full-priced retail games.

The comparison with Pokemon Rumble Blast doesn't hold water. Wipeout 2048 was always purported as a full-fledged mainline entry in the series, not some sort of spinoff or "bite-sized" game. On top of that, I don't recall any mainstream video game review outlets that have regarded this game as anything other than a full-fledged offering.

[KAL2006]

Sony need to up their game with game announcements real soon,

Nintendo are going all out with the 3DS. They launched it with Nintendogs (was a big seller for DS, maybe not as much for 3DS), then they launched Mario Kart 7 and Mario 3D Land in the same year (2 huge sellers). They secured Monster Hunter (which was a huge seller for PSP). Now they are going to launch NSMB2 this year in Q3.

If we look at the biggest sellers for handheld games last generation
NSMB
Mario Kart DS
Nintendogs
Brain Age
Pokemon
Dragon Quest IX
Professor Layton
Animal Crossing
Monster Hunter
Gran Turismo
GTA Liberty City Stories
Final Fantasy Crisis Core

Nintendo have already managed to get a lot of those IPs on 3DS, or a lot of those IPs are on the way.

Of course Sony doesn't have the luxury of having those huge big Nintendo IP's like Mario Kart, NSMB and Pokemon. However they should try and get games off of 3rd parties such as Monster Hunter, Final Fantasy and GTA. They should also release Gran Turismo but this time make sure it is a complete game like the console versions with full career mode.

[Salvadora]

However they should try and get games off of 3rd parties such as Monster Hunter, Final Fantasy and GTA.

How would they do this?

[ReaperXL07]

How would they do this?

Moneyhats would be their best bet right now obviously, you have to spend money to make money, and if Sony wants MH from capcom on Vita they should throw some incentive capcoms way.

[Combichristoffersen]

Moneyhats would be their best bet right now obviously, you have to spend money to make money, and if Sony wants MH from capcom on Vita they should throw some incentive capcoms way.

Sony isn't in a financial position that allows for huge moneyhats, really.

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

Can't wait to see soul sacrifice. Hopefully Sony also has some more mainstream new IPs with characters that look happy, like Dragon Quest. So far, Soul sacrifice looks really dark and I don't see that catchin a huge fire, but it can still sell very well. Too bad LBP didn't become a juggernaut.

[impact]

Moneyhats would be their best bet right now obviously, you have to spend money to make money, and if Sony wants MH from capcom on Vita they should throw some incentive capcoms way.

Clearly moneyhatting SFxT Vita was the smarter idea



lol

[KAL2006]

Realistically the best scenario for Sony at E3 would be to unveil COD and make sure it delivers and is a quality title. Also reveal Assassins Creed, Final Fantasy X and FIFA 13 (with cross play support). Announce Invizimals, Kojima game, Daxter 2, Gran Turismo and and concentrate on creating the next big new IP, perhaps Media Molecule's new IP or maybe Soul Sacrifice. They shouldn't bother wasting resources on IPs like Resistance and MotorStorm as the last entry of those IPs haven't sold very well.

The dream scenario is for Sony to secure a Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, GTA and Final Fantasy. But that is a unlikely scenario.

[Salvadora]

The dream scenario is for Sony to secure a Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, GTA and Final Fantasy. But that is a unlikely scenario.

Less than unlikely.

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

All I know is that we shall know the fate of Vita in about 1.5 months, right? If nothing memorable is announced, can we say that it will fail or would I be foolish to believe that? Can't wait though, E3 2012!

[Tratorn]

Sony isn't in a financial position that allows for huge moneyhats, really.

They'll lose much more money if the vita dies already in some months.

They should really offer Capcom/SE/Rockstar/other big Publishers some huge marketing-campaigns for 2-3 big exclusives.

The games won't come alone if the vita doesn't start to sell.

[Shai-Tan]

I haven't been impressed by the quality of shooters thus far but Unit 13 did illustrate how good controls can be. It feels better than some of the ps3 shooters I have played. The only worry is in aim mode like with holo sight the game has noticeable frame drop that makes it choppy which raises some questions about performance. After playing Uncharted I was a bit worried about the quality of the analogs but it seems now it's just the game having terrible controls like U3.

I think (good) multiplayer is the way to go for shooters (and several other genre) anyway. How it plays is far more important for multiplayer than how it looks. This is long term as the current Vita model is kind of weak in the online aspects but if they aren't retarded the next model will be more power efficient, have 4g, etc (not that most aren't playing at home anyway)

They also need to be open to change to attract games with a different economic model, like why can't we have something like Super Monday Night Combat on Vita? Or even Orcs Must Die 2 (w/co-op). It's not all big budget blockbusters that will attract people. Consoles missed out on Dungeon Defenders updates because the platform holders are obsessed with control. Dungeon Defenders is a bit ridiculous with their almost daily updates which annoy people even on PC but it also illustrates the problem with Sony again releasing a console lacking automatic updates. Thing should download and install updates while I have it plugged in. Make it optional with PS+ whatever. This is a lot to ask of Sony who can't even do basic online features without making it drop connection every few minutes but this is something they need to work on now if they are going to attract some of the better games. Fix the hardware and fix the platform and they won't have to worry so much about money hatting games or wasting so much money on first party

[guek]

All I know is that we shall know the fate of Vita in about 1.5 months, right? If nothing memorable is announced, can we say that it will fail or would I be foolish to believe that? Can't wait though, E3 2012!

A rebound is always possible, but I agree that chances of a revival become less and less likely as time goes on. E3 will indeed be very telling.

[Combichristoffersen]

They'll lose much more money if the vita dies already in some months. They should really offer Capcom/SE/Rockstar/other big Publishers some huge marketing-campaigns for 2-3 big exclusives. The games won't come alone if the vita doesn't start to sell.

Vita won't sell without any significant third party games coming, and no significant third party games will be coming unless the Vita starts selling and/or Sony starts doling out moneyhats (which they can't afford at the moment). I don't know what Sony could do with the Vita. It seems like moneyhats is the only real way out, but they can't really afford that, so.. I dunno.

[Spiegel]

If Sony can afford 2 billion dollars to buy EMI now, they surely can afford to pay some moneyhats.

[ReaperXL07]

Vita won't sell without any significant third party games coming, and no significant third party games will be coming unless the Vita starts selling and/or Sony starts doling out moneyhats (which they can't afford at the moment). I don't know what Sony could do with the Vita. It seems like moneyhats is the only real way out, but they can't really afford that, so.. I dunno.

I don't know if thats entirely accurate though, they just spent a ton of money picking up another music label. If Sony really wants to make it's gaming division one of its three "pillars" of the company I would think they would be more willing to allocate rescources to securing 3rd party support.

If they pick the right IPs than I would not think they would have to go and grab a bunch of them, they just have to pick the right games that will drive interest in the Vita. It's one of the least likely situations of course but for instance if Sony gave Square a bunch of money for an FFVII Vita Remake, I would think it would create alot of interest all by itself. Same for it's own version of Monster Hunter. It's really more about securing the right support for now, rather than a ton of crap no one will care about.

[Maxim726X]

So what's the over/under on the time frame for a price drop? And how much will it be?

[Combichristoffersen]

I don't know if thats entirely accurate though, they just spent a ton of money picking up another music label. If Sony really wants to make it's gaming division one of its three "pillars" of the company I would think they would be more willing to allocate rescources to securing 3rd party support. If they pick the right IPs than I would not think they would have to go and grab a bunch of them, they just have to pick the right games that will drive interest in the Vita. It's one of the least likely situations of course but for instance if Sony gave Square a bunch of money for an FFVII Vita Remake, I would think it would create alot of interest all by itself. Same for it's own version of Monster Hunter. It's really more about securing the right support for now, rather than a ton of crap no one will care about.

A FFVII remake would probably be so expensive it most likely wouldn't be worth it. I could see them moneyhatting a MH game, which shouldn't be too expensive since Capcom would just rehash PS2 assets anyway, although I don't know how much that would help the Vita outside Japan. Besides, isn't that Soul game for Vita supposed to be a MH clone?

[ReaperXL07]

A FFVII remake would probably be so expensive it most likely wouldn't be worth it. I could see them moneyhatting a MH game, which shouldn't be too expensive since Capcom would just rehash PS2 assets anyway, although I don't know how much that would help the Vita outside Japan. Besides, isn't that Soul game for Vita supposed to be a MH clone?

I was just using FFVII Remake as an example, but I do think that it's the type of game that would instantly turn alot of things around for the Vita considering how many people already want it to begin with, plus it's "iconic" status in gaming would make it hard to ignore, if you could only get it on Vita it would drive sales easily.

I agree though that MH would probably be easier for alot of different reasons, it would not matter a ton if this was mainly a Japan thing either since they already (might) have games coming that will interest the western markets. Stuff like COD, Bioshock, Killzone, Madden, etc could drive interest on the western side, while stuff like MH drives the East. Like I said it's just about getting those select IP that will drive interest in the masses.

As for Soul Sacrifice, It's possible from what we know currently that it would be an MH clone, but we just don't know enough about it yet to judge I think. Alot of questions still out there for that games, but Sony obviously feels that it's something special considering the 6 page Ad in Famitsu, and the conference for it in May.

[OldJadedGamer]

All I know is that we shall know the fate of Vita in about 1.5 months, right? If nothing memorable is announced, can we say that it will fail or would I be foolish to believe that? Can't wait though, E3 2012!

Sony totally ignored the PSP with first party games at its first E3 and that system turned out ok.

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

Sony totally ignored the PSP with first party games at its first E3 and that system turned out ok.

But think about the hype they were getting, especially after the success of the PS2. The Playstation brand was king in those days.

[neptunes]

But think about the hype they were getting, especially after the success of the PS2. The Playstation brand was king in those days.

Following your hypothetical scenario...

Let's say there is nothing worthwhile to show at this years e3, which by your terms the Vita is seen as a failure, what are the series of events that will follow? Do you see Sony discontinuing the platform? if so, when will they do it, how much will it cost them, and how long will it take?

[Combichristoffersen]

Following your hypothetical scenario... Let's say there is nothing worthwhile to show at this years e3, which by your terms the Vita is seen as a failure, what are the series of events that will follow? Do you see Sony discontinuing the platform? if so, when will they do it, how much will it cost them, and how long will it take?

If nothing of value or importance is announced at E3, and we conclude that the Vita is dead, I still think Sony will throw it a bone or two with exclusive first party games, and just let it die off slowly to sell as many units as possible.

[ari]

the vita upcoming schedule looks silly at best.

FFX is decent but what is a true system seller? seriously.

[FoneBone]

They'll lose much more money if the vita dies already in some months. They should really offer Capcom/SE/Rockstar/other big Publishers some huge marketing-campaigns for 2-3 big exclusives. The games won't come alone if the vita doesn't start to sell.

If Sony only made those deals now, the games would be a couple years off. I think that'd be too late to have the needed impact.

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

Let me say that I wholeheartedly want the Vita to succeed. I've been wanting I since January 27 last year and I can't wait to play Resistance and Gravity. However the hypothetical scenario I proposed is just a thought. I love the Vita and I wish the greatest games arrive for it.

If doomsday does happen, then I think Sony will release a few PS3 IPs for it next year and then just leave it be as it dies off.

[wiggleb0t]

With all the high end XBLA, PSN & smaller steam titles over the years and still coming out it boggles my mind why where isn't a huge line up of digitally distributable titles coming out for the ps vita.
It's understandable they can't just make high quality games out of no where but surely they could have funded a lot of ports of already developed titles or are in arrangement with porting smaller popular titles.

Off the top of my head:

Shank 2
Trine 2
NBA Jam
Toy Soldiers
Trials Evolution
Sine Mora
Bastion
Shoot Many Robots
Bloodrayne Betrayal

Yet the only little neat title IMO on psn for 'small titles' is Super Star dust...
I want one but it's not doing it for me yet.....

.

[bigtroyjon]

If Sony can afford 2 billion dollars to buy EMI now, they surely can afford to pay some moneyhats.

They aren't buying EMI on their own, some big money investment groups are partnered with Sony. They are also going to be selling off many valuable assets to please regulators.

[ReaperXL07]

the vita upcoming schedule looks silly at best. FFX is decent but what is a true system seller? seriously.

I'm not sure i'd say it looks silly, there are some great looking games coming for it with MK, Gravity Rush, Retro City, LBP, DJ MAX, Sound Shapes, MGSHD, Persona 4, etc.

I do agree though that right now they are lacking titles right now that will drive excitment in Japan. The biggest titles they have "announced" right now are all major western IP, and could drive interest if they actually come, but most of them won't gain much traction in the eastern markets I think.

It's always been alittle strange to me that Japanese games can become very popular here in the west, but the same is almost never true for western games becoming successful in Japan.

[Phoenician_Viking]

If nothing of value or importance is announced at E3, and we conclude that the Vita is dead, I still think Sony will throw it a bone or two with exclusive first party games, and just let it die off slowly to sell as many units as possible.

Like the PS3 is dead, right? After all, PS3 has little to no games the first 2 years.

[timetokill]

Like the PS3 is dead, right? After all, PS3 has little to no games the first 2 years.

The PS3's game situation was nowhere near as dire as the Vita's currently is.

[linkboy]

More people cared about Metal Gear Acid than about Metal Gear Peace Walker, in US. Well, or at least more people bought it.

To be fair, Acid came out early in the PSP's life. It was the first Metal Gear game on the system and it didn't have to deal with the piracy problem as much. The PSP also had retail space in the US.

When Peace Walker was released, it was a totally different market. The system had been hacked to hell and back, it was pretty much dead in the US.

Its really hard to just look at sales numbers and come to that conclusion.

[Dalthien]

They aren't buying EMI on their own, some big money investment groups are partnered with Sony. They are also going to be selling off many valuable assets to please regulators.

Not to mention that they will actually be getting something for their money. (which doesn't mean that I think it was a smart acquisition, because I don't). But they will actually own a vast catalog of music for their money.

Dropping a small fortune on FF7R, or MH3GPortable, or DQ11, or whatever else you want to imagine - they still don't own anything. They get a game on their system, but SE still owns FF and DQ, Capcom still owns MH, and Sony is out a boatload of cash for something that may or may not actually change the fortunes of their system. And if it doesn't work out in the end, they have nothing to sell to recoup their investment. If the EMI thing doesn't work out, they always have a catalog of music that they can turn around and sell.

There's a reason that Sony made a wholesale switch away from moneyhats several years ago. Building your own portfolio of brands that you own and control is far, far more valuable than renting someone else's stuff. Unfortunately, Sony has done a lousy job of building up a sizable stable of mass-market brands these last number of years.

[KongRudi]

All I know is that we shall know the fate of Vita in about 1.5 months, right? If nothing memorable is announced, can we say that it will fail or would I be foolish to believe that? Can't wait though, E3 2012!

I guess we'll see CoD, Bioshock, Killzone for Vita and similar - however I don't expect much until Tokyo Games Show for Vita-releases from someone else than Sony - because the big western third-party publishers wich can afford to be at E3 seems ready to die, and don't have any interest in making new IP's anymore, and certainly not on handhelds. :-/

[Combichristoffersen]

Like the PS3 is dead, right? After all, PS3 has little to no games the first 2 years.

The PS3 had a rough start, but it was never quite as dire as the Vita's current situation is. Sony was behind the PS3 from day 1, but they just dumped the Vita on the street like an unwanted puppy and seems like they just don't care all that much. It's baffling.

[AceBandage]

I guess we'll see CoD, Bioshock, Killzone for Vita and similar - however I don't expect much until Tokyo Games Show for Vita-releases from someone else than Sony - because the big western third-party publishers wich can afford to be at E3 seems ready to die, and don't have any interest in making new IP's anymore, and certainly not on handhelds. :-/

I wouldn't expect Bioshock to be shown anytime soon. If ever.

[DangerousDave]

The dream scenario is for Sony to secure a Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, GTA and Final Fantasy. But that is a unlikely scenario.

The dream scenario is to find finally a way to create first party games that sell and make people buy consoles, instead of relying always in third party exclusives.

[kuroshiki]

The PS3 had a rough start, but it was never quite as dire as the Vita's current situation is. Sony was behind the PS3 from day 1, but they just dumped the Vita on the street like an unwanted puppy and seems like they just don't care all that much. It's baffling.

Wait, what?

[muu]

If Sony only made those deals now, the games would be a couple years off. I think that'd be too late to have the needed impact.

The one thing that Vita's got going for it, is that indeed the stuff that's coming now are stuff that should have been in planning for the last couple years. Assuming that devs didn't shovel the projects altogether, these will make or break Vita's situation. E3 will really be its final test -- if anyone thinks they can gain much more than a minor slice of the pie in Japan in its current situation (consistent 1:6 sales, lagging by 4.5m+ units, previous biggest franchise no longer an exclusive) they're being delusional.

How much money would it take to moneyhat anything else at this point? Could they even do a moneyhat? It's one thing to gain an exclusive in a relatively even PS3 vs 360 type situation, it's quite another when there's such a disparity in market share. No matter how good a game they release the current # of units, and stiff competition from AAA titles in existing consoles, are going to be a limiting factor on number of games sold. Brand image is extremely important, especially when competing games in the same genre are typically just as good if not better, and very low sales are going to do quite a bit of harm in that regard. Dunno how many companies are willing to take that risk and at what cost.

It's always been alittle strange to me that Japanese games can become very popular here in the west, but the same is almost never true for western games becoming successful in Japan.

Japan's never been huge on FPS's, western design philosophy of realism realism realism doesn't quite click, and western games have had a bad rap for years before the whole HD gaming rush. And let's not forget with the last one, mainstream core gaming in Japan is portable now... and how many excellent handheld titles are coming out of western publishers today? It takes time for devs to gain the trust of users, and with rising sales of some games like MW3 it does look like perceptions are gradually changing.

[Combichristoffersen]

Wait, what?

They dumped it on the market with a few games from their most well-known IPs (Uncharted and Wipeout specifically) and seems to have taken a laissez-faire approach to it after that, like they just don't care about it. They did more or less the same thing with the Move; some half-assed first party support for 'core' games (and a bunch of minigames and casual games), and then.. nothing.

[kuroshiki]

They dumped it on the market with a few games from their most well-known IPs (Uncharted and Wipeout specifically) and seems to have taken a laissez-faire approach to it after that, like they just don't care about it. They did more or less the same thing with the Move; some half-assed first party support for 'core' games, and then.. nothing.

Any game console release is like that. I don't see any different from 3DS, XBOX360, etc launch with vita launch. Right now they are trying to fill the gap with some releases like Gravity Rush in june instead of now.

I don't think Sony literally see the vita as unwanted dog.

[Combichristoffersen]

Any game console release is like that. I don't see any different from 3DS, XBOX360, etc launch with vita launch. Right now they are trying to fill the gap with some releases like Gravity Rush in june instead of now. I don't think Sony literally see the vita as unwanted dog.

No, I don't really think they literally see it as an unwanted dog, but you get my point; they seemingly aren't doing much to improve its situation. There's Gravity Rush coming, but I wouldn't call that game a system seller. As for the DS, 3DS and 360, we knew there were games coming. For the Vita? We don't know about anything besides Gravity Rush and that Soul game.

[CadetMahoney]

It's always been alittle strange to me that Japanese games can become very popular here in the west, but the same is almost never true for western games becoming successful in Japan.

Western devs see that North America is the most important market and the most profitable, so no ones really tried to 1-up the Japanese at their own different tastes, a smaller market.

Something like Mortal Kombat will do well in the USA but be hardly touched in Japan.

[kuroshiki]

No, I don't really think they literally see it as an unwanted dog, but you get my point; they seemingly aren't doing much to improve its situation. There's Gravity Rush coming, but I wouldn't call that game a system seller. As for the DS, 3DS and 360, we knew there were games coming. For the Vita? We don't know about anything besides Gravity Rush and that Soul game.

When 360 was launched there was virtually no game announced. By the time we didn't know DMC and other games were going to be multiplatform and Capcom was the only publisher who was majorly supporting X360.