[Carnby]

What I learned after yesterday was that finishing moves mean nothing. BTW, Cena had already kicked out of the PE.

And a rock bottom. Rock won with his second RB of the match.

[jmdajr]

I can understand why people were pissed with some decisions made. But to say WM28 was bad or just ok doesn't make sense to me. Undertaker matches and ric flair are the only memorable matches in the past 4 years.

Yeah I think this mania was better than 27,26, and 25..which I was at.

24 was actually pretty cool. Taker/Edge,Floyd/Show,Shawn/Taker. Fun moments.

Think about it. This year we had no Bret/Vince or Cole/Jr or a Host just..talking. Big improvement there!

[plagiarize]

a few thoughts. watched this with a big group of friends last night and we had a good time. i was really happy to see so many DB fans, and to hear him get such a positive reaction as it wasn't that long ago that i was watching him wrestle in a gym in one of the worst parts of Boston, and here he was wrestling at wrestlemania.

i knew he would lose... but... wasn't expecting that. i'd have much rathered an actual match, but i think Sheamus catching by surprise doesn't really harm DB, in the way a more extended domination would have. it totally plays into his character of late and the way they have been developing his relationship with AJ...

so storyline wise... i'm okay. but yeah, mayyyyyyhaps not the best choice for Wrestlemania infront of one of the most positive crowd reactions he ever had. i hope they're kicking themselves over it now, and i hope they heard those DB chants that just kept on coming back. probably not, but still.

i enjoyed the three last matches quite a bit, i enjoyed Kane Orton and to a lesser degree Cody Show. Show isn't a great worker, but he's one of those guys who has done a lot for the company and who puts his body through a lot. let him have his one big Wrestlemania win. after his genuine outpouring of emotion you can see how much it meant to him, and he deserves it. Cody will still get over.

every match ended clean. only one match ending had anything approaching shennanigans with Eve distracting Zack. that's pretty refreshing. it totally shouldn't be, but who would have guessed that we'd see Orton and Cena lose on a night of 100% clean finishes?

for everyone going on about the Cena turn, that i've been hearing was going to happen any day now for the last however many years. give it up.

when are you going to realise that NOT turning Cena heel IS THE TURN.

Cena right now can be fueded with faces (and has been fueding with faces). when he is, his fans still cheer him. he still sells merchandise, and even if the faces he's fueding with get the better of him, he keeps his fans. why actually turn him? what do you gain from that? you lose his merchandise sales, and the people who already hate him are already buying PPVs in the hope of seeing him lose.

the people that don't think he can wrestle (LOL) aren't going to suddenly change their opinion on him just because now he is being booed by everyone, and we can have all the Cena vs main event level face fueds as it stands.

the people that don't like him WANT him turned. so it makes no sense at all to turn him.

no sense.

at all.

hopefully they start pushing the Miz as a credible heel again tonight. that was the big plus out of the tag match for me. Miz looked good in getting the pin, and it sets up the storyline of Johnny Ace pushing him back into the title picture.

i'm not sure how long it's going to be before Jericho steps away, but i really like Punk vs Miz as a singles fued. what to do with Cena? well, if he isn't tied up with the Rock still, why not have him fued with Del Rio again? he's got to be back soon right?

if you want him to fued against a face... why not Kofi or hell, I can see him having some good matches with Brodus.

[Htown]

Cena right now can be fueded with faces (and has been fueding with faces). when he is, his fans still cheer him. he still sells merchandise, and even if the faces he's fueding with get the better of him, he keeps his fans. why actually turn him? what do you gain from that? you lose his merchandise sales, and the people who already hate him are already buying PPVs in the hope of seeing him lose.

The people who hate him aren't buying the PPVs to see him lose. When they buy, it's to see somebody else they like on the card. There's this false idea that whether people love or hate John Cena, they're still buying tickets because of him.

Nuh uh. People who love Cena will buy tickets because of him, and people who hate him who buy PPVs buy them for the other guys on the card.

Of course, WWE has real problems with not letting the other guys on the card get over, so PPV sales continue to drop like a rock.

[SoulPlaya]

The people who hate him aren't buying the PPVs to see him lose. When they buy, it's to see somebody else they like on the card. There's this false idea that whether people love or hate John Cena, they're still buying tickets because of him. Nuh uh. People who love Cena will buy tickets because of him, and people who hate him who buy PPVs buy them for the other guys on the card. Of course, WWE has real problems with not letting the other guys on the card get over, so PPV sales continue to drop like a rock.

yeah, Cena isn't a heel who people love to hate. He's just a character that people hate, period, and will avoid the show, as a result.

[jordan0386]

Did Rock hurt himself at the beginning of the match? Because Cena sat in the ring looking for a 'go' signal.

[plagiarize]

The people who hate him aren't buying the PPVs to see him lose. When they buy, it's to see somebody else they like on the card. There's this false idea that whether people love or hate John Cena, they're still buying tickets because of him. Nuh uh. People who love Cena will buy tickets because of him, and people who hate him who buy PPVs buy them for the other guys on the card. Of course, WWE has real problems with not letting the other guys on the card get over, so PPV sales continue to drop like a rock.

and you think turning him heel makes the people that hate him stop hating him? i think that ship saled loooooong ago. you think he'll suddenly have a much wider move set and suddenly sell properly?

[jmdajr]

Cena right now can be fueded with faces (and has been fueding with faces). when he is, his fans still cheer him. he still sells merchandise, and even if the faces he's fueding with get the better of him, he keeps his fans. why actually turn him? what do you gain from that? you lose his merchandise sales, and the people who already the people that don't think he can wrestle (LOL) aren't going to suddenly change their opinion on him just because now he is being booed by everyone, and we can have all the Cena vs main event level face fueds as it stands.

Good points. Lets hope they roll with it.

[SoulPlaya]

and you think turning him heel makes the people that hate him stop hating him? i think that ship saled loooooong ago. you think he'll suddenly have a much wider move set and suddenly sell properly?

The acceptance of a character rarely has to do with their wrestling ability. Cena is a competent wrestler, who actually has a decent moveset who just isn't allowed to show much of it, due to the nature of his character. Becoming a heel, and not having to have a predictable, merchandise laden moveset would help.

[jmdajr]

yeah, Cena isn't a heel who people love to hate. He's just a character that people hate, period, and will avoid the show, as a result.

Hmmm. So if Smackdown was live....and Cena wasn't on it... These people that tune out.. would watch?

I mean in general how are cable ratings as a whole doing compared to the past?

[Razorskin]

It's great that all of Cena's accomplishments are now void after losing, like he said. It's like the last 7 years never happened.

[SoulPlaya]

Hmmm. So if Smackdown was live....and Cena wasn't on it... These people that tune out.. would watch?

What? What kind of logic are you using? I'm saying Cena's character is one of the reasons people don't watch. His absence doesn't mean people would watch, however.

[Smelly Tramp]

Punk must have the best theme now, cult of personality is genius.

"neeeeeee-on lights" with him standing on the top rope, arms spread out is iconic.

absolutely beautiful.

[jmdajr]

What? What kind of logic are you using? I'm saying Cena's character is one of the reasons people don't watch. His absence doesn't mean people would watch, however.

I'm just going with the idea that these arm chair bookers would get the ratings back to 8.0s in no time.

But that's not going to happen...

As for me I'll probably still be watching when they go back to the Grand Ballroom at Manhattan Center Studios.

[Net_Wrecker]

I'm just going with the idea that these arm chair bookers would get the ratings back to 8.0s in no time.

That easy. Just replace Raw with sports entertainment that people care about like the NFL. Patriots/Giants is a better feud than anything in the last 4-5 years of WWE. The underdog Giants have effectively become the franchise to beat while the superhuman Patriots are on the chase.

BOOKING.

[jmdajr]

That easy. Just replace Raw with sports entertainment that people care about like the NFL. Patriots/Giants is a better feud than anything in the last 4-5 years of WWE. The underdog Giants have effectively become the franchise to beat while the superhuman Patriots are on the chase. BOOKING.

Damn..Belichick steals everything..

[RBH]

The monthly wrestling threads have now been moved to the OT Community section, for those interested in joining us:



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468730

[jmdajr]

The monthly wrestling threads have now been moved to the OT Community section, for those interested in joining us: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468730

The fuck.. 9 pages long already

[Net_Wrecker]

Damn..Belichick steals everything..

See, they even have the evil authority figure who's trying to turn his reputation around after betraying his star player's squeaky clean image.

NFL is better wrestling than wrestling.

[plagiarize]

The acceptance of a character rarely has to do with their wrestling ability. Cena is a competent wrestler, who actually has a decent moveset who just isn't allowed to show much of it, due to the nature of his character. Becoming a heel, and not having to have a predictable, merchandise laden moveset would help.

i think Cena is vanilla in a good way. the guy seems to be able to pull off a decent match with anyone.

i mean, i'd love to see all those crying children too, but long term i don't think turning him heel at this point would be any kind of net gain for the company, and heel wise, things seem to be pretty good ATM.

a heel Cena keeps Dolph and Cody in the mid card more than a face Cena, imho.

[Net_Wrecker]

a heel Cena keeps Dolph and Cody in the mid card more than a face Cena, imho.

Literally the entire roster is the midcard compared to Cena. Doesn't matter what role he's playing.

[sajj316]

Literally the entire roster is the midcard compared to Cena. Doesn't matter what role he's playing.

Ya, it's quite sad that the only star that has broken through the upper card ceiling is CM Punk and that was his doing ..

[jmdajr]

See, they even have the evil authority figure who's trying to turn his reputation around after betraying his star player's squeaky clean image. NFL is better wrestling than wrestling.

Must be why I love NFL so much along with Wrasslin

[funkystudent]

Would be interesting if Cena went on a losing streak for a few months now that he lost clean for the first time in about 4/5 years.


He has been so invincible for so long it sure would be something different.

[jmdajr]

Would be interesting if Cena went on a losing streak for a few months now that he lost clean for the first time in about 4/5 years. He has been so invincible for so long it sure would be something different.

He had a slump a couple of years back.

[Net_Wrecker]

Would be interesting if Cena went on a losing streak for a few months now that he lost clean for the first time in about 4/5 years. He has been so invincible for so long it sure would be something different.

Only if Johnny Ace pulls a Dana White and kicks Cena off of Raw for losing so much. Then threatens to kick him off of Smackdown too. Break Cena all the way down so that he switches his style up, gets some new moves, gets new feuds, and OMG he's winning again! WHAT'S THIS? A US title shot for John Cena? He's come so far after the last 8 months of losing. He now deserves a WWE Title shot. OMG HE WON! THE COMEBACK STORY IS COMPLETE.

DUN DUN DUN....A wild Dwayne Johnson appears.

WM29, John Cena 2.0 vs. The Rock (who originally set Cena on that losing streak a year prior)

Book it.

[ZeroRay]

Only if Johnny Ace pulls a Dana White and kicks Cena off of Raw for losing so much. Then threatens to kick him off of Smackdown too. Break Cena all the way down so that he switches his style up, gets some new moves, gets new feuds, and OMG he's winning again! WHAT'S THIS? A US title shot for John Cena? He's come so far after the last 8 months of losing. He now deserves a WWE Title shot. OMG HE WON! THE COMEBACK STORY IS COMPLETE. DUN DUN DUN....A Wild Dwayne Johnson appears. WM29, John Cena 2.0 vs. The Rock (who originally set Cena on that losing streak a year prior) Book it.

Vince: "lolno"

[plagiarize]

Only if Johnny Ace pulls a Dana White and kicks Cena off of Raw for losing so much. Then threatens to kick him off of Smackdown too. Break Cena all the way down so that he switches his style up, gets some new moves, gets new feuds, and OMG he's winning again! WHAT'S THIS? A US title shot for John Cena? He's come so far after the last 8 months of losing. He now deserves a WWE Title shot. OMG HE WON! THE COMEBACK STORY IS COMPLETE. DUN DUN DUN....A wild Dwayne Johnson appears. WM29, John Cena 2.0 vs. The Rock (who originally set Cena on that losing streak a year prior) Book it.

have they ever done a Rocky 1 to Rocky 2 angle? i've always wanted that. have a wrestler lose, and then have the storyline be that they are trying to push themself and better themself and fight their way back to that rematch, all the while training and learning to get the win in the return match.

[ViewtifulJC]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthre...468523&page=30

This is when the magic happens

[RBH]

[Morgadeth]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthre...468523&page=30 This is when the magic happens

Those reactions weren't as positive as mine.

[Officerrob]

Taker/HHH

Taker/HHH is NOT a classic. Hell, it was the worst Undertaker match of his last four Wrestlemania matches.

[Liquidsnake]

Taker/HHH is NOT a classic. Hell, it was the worst Undertaker match of his last four Wrestlemania matches.

Yeah he just can't move anymore. I think its time.

[shwimpy]

Yeah he just can't move anymore. I think its time.

Just one more match with Brock and then call it quits.

[JKRMA]

Just one more match with Brock and then call it quits.

Then just one more match with rock, then Goldberg, then sting. Na man, undertaker needs to retire, he has earned it and 20-0 is a really solid even number to go out on top of.

[Nocturnowl]

Taker/HHH is NOT a classic. Hell, it was the worst Undertaker match of his last four Wrestlemania matches.

I thought it was a bit better than last years due to HBK antics like cowering in the corner peeking through the gaps in his fingers and selling Hells gate with hilarious hand flailing.
Oh and I guess it's so much more stupid regarding kick outs that it becomes sort of funny, I think there was less dead time as well surprisingly.
But yeah it's nothing to really trumpet, as I said earlier I doubt the entertainment value holds up on a repeat watch.

[Officerrob]

I thought it was a bit better than last years due to HBK antics like cowering in the corner peeking through the gaps in his fingers and selling Hells gate with hilarious hand flailing. Oh and I guess it's so much more stupid regarding kick outs that it becomes sort of funny, I think there was less dead time as well surprisingly. But yeah it's nothing to really trumpet, as I said earlier I doubt the entertainment value holds up on a repeat watch.

The thing that made last years match better was the HHH tombstone spot. It was the only time during these two HHH matches where I thought Undertaker might lose. Also, the cell actually hurt the match this year. The cell wasn't used at all and took away potential big spots like the Undertaker dive over the top rope and moves on the announcers tables.

[MC Safety]

The acceptance of a character rarely has to do with their wrestling ability. Cena is a competent wrestler, who actually has a decent moveset who just isn't allowed to show much of it, due to the nature of his character. Becoming a heel, and not having to have a predictable, merchandise laden moveset would help.

John Cena donates a lot of his time to making sick children feel better about themselves. These kids are oftentimes in the final stages of their lives, and they choose Cena as their wish.

Is it really necessary for the guy to become a villain for the sake of crazed wrestling fans who, honestly, wouldn't like him if he came to their house and crapped gold coins?

[krae_man]

113 pages to read? Jesus.

[ViewtifulJC]

113 pages to read? Jesus.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthre...468523&page=30

Start here, first match between D-Bryan and Shemeaus

[Sanjuro]

Saved.

[Ad Infinitum]

Fantastic .gif from SA.

[bjb]

AROD's face :lol

[Mrbob]

One thing I learned last night is Cena can't sell worth a damn. I don't watch much modern wrestling but after being out nearly a decade Rock still sold Cena's attacks like a champ. Cena just doesn't seem very graceful.

So the Rock deal is 3 matches, right? I expect Rock and Cena to meet up again at Summer Slam with Rock winning again, and it'll drive Cena mad until WM29 when they have their final match and Cena goes over. Having him lose twice will put him over like crazy when he finally wins at WM29 and the Cena fans can go home happy.

[UberTag]

John Cena donates a lot of his time to making sick children feel better about themselves. These kids are oftentimes in the final stages of their lives, and they choose Cena as their wish. Is it really necessary for the guy to become a villain for the sake of crazed wrestling fans who, honestly, wouldn't like him if he came to their house and crapped gold coins?

Cena shouldn't turn heel. He should just become a different kind of face. And he should lose clean to people who aren't The Rock. And he should sell his opponent's offense. And he should be emotionally invested in feuds that organically develop.

In other words, he should be the face he was in 2006 when he was feuding with Edge.

[Aiii]

John Cena donates a lot of his time to making sick children feel better about themselves. These kids are oftentimes in the final stages of their lives, and they choose Cena as their wish. Is it really necessary for the guy to become a villain for the sake of crazed wrestling fans who, honestly, wouldn't like him if he came to their house and crapped gold coins?

So, they'll request Sheamus instead. I'm sure the irish loaf would love to grant some wishes.

Hulk Hogan, Rock, Austin, they all turned heel after long runs as huge faces, it's not the end of the world and in a few years he can grant more wishes then he ever did when he turns back.

[Htown]

and you think turning him heel makes the people that hate him stop hating him? i think that ship saled loooooong ago. you think he'll suddenly have a much wider move set and suddenly sell properly?

I don't want him to turn heel, I just want him to turn interesting.

[Dead Man]

John Cena donates a lot of his time to making sick children feel better about themselves. These kids are oftentimes in the final stages of their lives, and they choose Cena as their wish. Is it really necessary for the guy to become a villain for the sake of crazed wrestling fans who, honestly, wouldn't like him if he came to their house and crapped gold coins?

Holy shit, Jon Cena is too important to go heel? Those kids know it is a work. WWE is not shy about it these days.

[UberTag]

Holy shit, Jon Cena is too important to go heel? Those kids know it is a work. WWE is not shy about it these days.

Speaking of which, both Edge and Christian continued to visit kids in hospitals, make charity appearances and answer Make-A-Wish requests during their heel runs. It CAN be done. Heaven forbid we'd dare to teach a lesson to youngsters to distinguish a performer's on-screen character from who they are in real life (although I get the impression Cena has difficulty doing this when it comes to himself).

[FyreWulff]

You'll see a Cena turn when his merch sales start dropping.