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saladine1
Junior Member
(04-04-2012, 08:14 PM)
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I like tangerine it's my favourite fruit.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:15 PM)

Originally Posted by brain_stew

The 7670 isn't a SI GPU, sorry that doesn't stack up for me.

Ditto. Possible leaked early dev-kit specs maybe?
-Pyromaniac-
(04-04-2012, 08:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Haunted

too... many... rumours...


When's E3 this year?

first week of june
brain_stew
Hello friend! Have you heard the good news about Jesus PC gaming?
(04-04-2012, 08:15 PM)

Originally Posted by DCKing

There is no SI chip available that isn't way more powerful than the Turks chip yet. If this is the first of targets they have, they have to match the power somehow. The GPU could be replaced whenever smaller SI chips are available, just like that Xbox Next GPU.

Just trying to explain how this could be true. IGN had a pretty good track record in being factually correct (but piss-poor in reporting) last generation.

Size and power is irrelevant in a dev kit and disabling functional units either in hardware or software would be simple enough for Sony/AMD to do. GCN is a pretty significant shift away from all of AMD's previous architectures, you'll want to maximise developer exposure to it as much as you can.
Majanew
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by -Pyromaniac-

So how long until Epic and whatnot start complaining. Or will they start backtracking on what they expect first. Because this isn't as big as they had hoped I'm figuring from some of the posts actually dropping knowledge? Unless I'm reading wrong.

DICE may already have complained to Sony. DICE said 2GB RAM is not enough for the next-gen consoles and it's looking likely that the PS4 will only have 2GB RAM.
guldakot
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Diablos

So giving the PS4 8GB of main ram and 2-4GB of vram is going to make it $500? Really?

RAM is so cheap today it's ridiculous... might as well take advantage.

And if it uses a desktop x64 quad core chip there's no way it's going to be anywhere close to $500 unless they put 64GB of DDR5 in. With the amount of money they'd save by going with AMD, they can more than likely afford to put more/faster memory in.

Seriously? Are you really linking to off the shelf ddr3 from newegg when referencing console ram?

Embedded gddr3 gddr5 xdr xdr 2 etc are not the same thing, and the prices are NOT analogous.
brain_stew
Hello friend! Have you heard the good news about Jesus PC gaming?
(04-04-2012, 08:16 PM)

Originally Posted by Lonely1

What's the closes SI GPU to a 6670 in performance?

No SI GPU's will ever be that weak. Apart from some future APUs perhaps.
Diablos
(04-04-2012, 08:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Majanew

DICE may already have complained to Sony. DICE said 2GB RAM is not enough for the next-gen consoles and it's looking likely that the PS4 will only have 2GB RAM.

There should be at a minimum 4GB of main memory for next-gen consoles.


Originally Posted by guldakot

Seriously? Are you really linking to off the shelf ddr3 from newegg when referencing console ram?

Embedded gddr3 gddr5 xdr xdr 2 etc are not the same thing, and the prices are NOT analogous.

Yes, if you see my post after that, I took that into account. The APU is going to be so cheap that it should be able to more than offset a good amount of higher performance memory at faster speeds.
DCKing
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Diablos

Why not?

The actual chips may be cheap (but not Newegg cheap, you don't want that stuff in your console), but you can't just glue them into the case. They need to be soldered on, have wires attached to them, take up space and cooling, be addressed by a memory controller in the CPU and so on.

RAM in consoles is expensive. Don't bring up Newegg again for this stuff, please.
papersleeves
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:18 PM)
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Llano A8-3850 is a budget cpu that isn't that great. In fact it's pretty terrible compared to Core i7, i5, or even Phenom II. I guess Cell is faster than that stuff. So big WTF....
wsippel
(04-04-2012, 08:18 PM)

Originally Posted by sTeLioSco

hmm kotaku said it was a Southern Island gpu....

ill just wait final specs.

Many people associate "Southern Islands" with the 7xxx series, even though most 7xxx cards actually use Northern Islands GPUs.
Jaruru
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by LiK

Riiiiiidge racer!

giant crab~~~
Projectjustice
Banned
(04-04-2012, 08:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ryoku

Since we still know little to nothing about the GPU of the Wii U, I don't know what to take of these anonymous rumors. Literally, some are saying it's weaker than current-gen, some are saying it's on-par with current-gen, and some are saying that it's noticeably greater than current-gen. You really can't just pick out what you are hoping for or what you just simply "think" is the most likely scenario. I'd wait until E3.
Going off of the early rumors of the Wii U being based off of a RV700 card, this could range from a 4830 to a 4870. Even at the level of a 4830, a 6670/7670 is not very different aside from being able to dish out more performance at higher resolutions and better AA (I'm expecting a standard of 720p next-gen, according to these rumors).

This is why i said this could be another PS2, GCN, Xbox generation.
Ryoku
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinan

This would be rather underwhelming, really. One can forget about 4K altogether and real FullHD would be at least as challenging for devs as HD is now, or even worse. :p Hopefully not true.

It'll definitely be able to push 4k video. Hell, an 8800GT can produce 4k video. Games? Lolz, no.
DragonKnight
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:19 PM)
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Well i'm graduating college and fortunate enough to have a job lined up right after. Bring it on.
Raistlin
Post Count: 9999
(04-04-2012, 08:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Majanew

I guess PS4 will have another GB of RAM, giving the system 2GB and a split pool once again.

Not necessarily. Assuming these rumors are even true (and set in stone) ... this is only listing what consumer products the system will be based on. There's nothing stopping them from going with a unified memory architecture.


UPDATE: For further clarification, the chips being used in the PlayStation 4 are based on the off-the-shelf parts detailed above and are being custom tooled for the console. Exact specs may vary.

Diablos
(04-04-2012, 08:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by DCKing

The actual chips may be cheap (but not Newegg cheap, you don't want that stuff in your console), but you can't just glue them into the case. They need to be soldered on, have wires attached to them, take up space and cooling, be addressed by a memory controller in the CPU and so on.

RAM in consoles is expensive. Don't bring up Newegg again for this stuff, please.

I'm not bringing up newegg as a means to say Sony should just pop in two DDR3 memory modules and be done with it; I'm saying RAM is cheaper than it was a few years ago, and combined with the fact that the APU is going to be very inexpensive, that should more than offset the cost of a decent amount of high performance memory.
Persona7
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:20 PM)
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Would be cool to have another generation with two consoles being neck and neck throughout.
guldakot
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Diablos

There should be at a minimum 4GB of main memory for next-gen consoles.



Yes, if you see my post after that, I took that into account. The APU is going to be so cheap that it should be able to more than offset a good amount of higher performance memory at faster speeds.

Its not just the price, its board complexity. Unless they are using 3d stacking your talking about an incredibly complex board in comparison just to get to 4 GB. That drives up the cost as well.

Im guessing 2gb baseline for all the next gen consoles, with Nintendo maybe doing some kind of esoteric shit again with a smaller amount of stupid fast ram because they like to be different. ( I kid I kid... sorta..)

After giving it some thought, I wouldn't be surprised if this setup is a stand for a Trinity based apu in the final system, the actual performance should be similar between this cobbled together design and a trinity based setup.
Last edited by guldakot; 04-04-2012 at 08:23 PM.
Alchemy
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(04-04-2012, 08:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by AndyD

They would have my money on day one. Let me play my steam library, my PSN library and have a 4k bluray player (dont even need PS3 disc BC).

A playstation partnered steambox would be a knockout machine.

Sadly I think Microsoft will beat Sony to the punch with Steam integration.

Isn't Portal 2 Steam compatible on the PS3 and not the 360?
AllIsOneIsNone
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by -COOLIO-

lol, ive had enough of the low power rumors. im calling a gtx 680 level card for the next gen, come at me

I want so much to believe you.
GhostTrick
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by DarkChild

This sucks. I expect more from Sony/MS and nothing in latest Epic/Crytek interviews suggest it will be like this.




So ? Anonymous devs are more trustfull sources than named devs !
Shikoro
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Persona7

Would be cool to have another generation with two consoles being neck and neck throughout.

Sure, but not this weak...
DieH@rd
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:23 PM)
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Its nice seeing gaf metdowns by looking at the limmitations of the of the shelf PC hardware. :)

Both CPU and GPU will be modified, there will be no 1gb vram limitation, cache sizes will change, bandwith between chips, clocks of cpu, integrated apu, dedicated gpu, etc etc. And im still hoping for stacked chips.
Diablos
(04-04-2012, 08:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by guldakot

Its not just the price, its board complexity. Unless they are using 3d stacking your talking about an incredibly complex board in comparison just to get to 4 GB. That drives up the cost as well.

Im guessing 2gb baseline for all the next gen consoles, with Nintendo maybe doing some kind of esoteric shit again with a smaller amount of stupid fast ram because they like to be different. ( I kid I kid... sorta..)

So getting the board to support 4GB of RAM is going to make PS4 $500-600 as some people suggest...? I don't really buy that.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
(04-04-2012, 08:23 PM)

Originally Posted by papersleeves

Llano A8-3850 is a budget cpu that isn't that great. In fact it's pretty terrible compared to Core i7, i5, or even Phenom II. I guess Cell is faster than that stuff. So big WTF....

Big part of it would be the ability to run Open CL well on it, which is the kind of stuff Cell SPUs are used for anyway, bu the AMD approach there would be far friendlier and easier. For the general computing, the four core 3850 should be far better than the crummy main core that's in Cell

Originally Posted by Majanew

DICE may already have complained to Sony. DICE said 2GB RAM is not enough for the next-gen consoles and it's looking likely that the PS4 will only have 2GB RAM.

That was a complained aimed probably against MS and Sony both. It makes so much financial sense for them use 2GB of RAM in their machines right now.
brain_stew
Hello friend! Have you heard the good news about Jesus PC gaming?
(04-04-2012, 08:24 PM)

Originally Posted by Persona7

Would be cool to have another generation with two consoles being neck and neck throughout.

This wouldn't be a new console generation. It'd be a pathetic leap for a 7 year gap.
wsippel
(04-04-2012, 08:24 PM)

Originally Posted by Shikoro

Sure, but not this weak...

The systems need to be affordable and shouldn't set your house on fire, though.
apana
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:25 PM)
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Equivalent to how many gamecubes?
slider
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Diablos

Yeah yeah, I remember people saying the same thing about PS3's main memory, and then a couple years later everyone was wishing they at least put another 256-512MB in. That's all I'm saying; what seems more than practical now may prove to look like an oversight in just a couple short years.

I know what you mean. But maybe price of entry at the next gen will be a crucial factor in the momentum these consoles gain. Once they're at, I dunno, 10million+ units in the hands of consumers publishers are onboard and work with what is there. At least that's my opinion.

As a gadget freak, with no technical knowledge, of course I'd want my new toy to be packed to the brim with tech but it probably won't happen.
guldakot
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(04-04-2012, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Diablos

So getting the board to support 4GB of RAM is going to make PS4 $500-600 as some people suggest...? I don't really buy that.

Nah sorry, didn't mean to imply that it would be super expensive, but it would definately be more complex and your looking at increased cost from that.

With these specs I could see a $350-$399 launch price, although it should be lower then that.
Dennis
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(04-04-2012, 08:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Diablos

Go into next gen with what seems like a reasonable amount (i.e. 8-16GB main, 2-4GB VRAM)

lmao
iSurvivedTheOutage
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:28 PM)
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Gonna start saving soon..
bigtroyjon
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:28 PM)

Originally Posted by -Pyromaniac-

So how long until Epic and whatnot start complaining. Or will they start backtracking on what they expect first. Because this isn't as big as they had hoped I'm figuring from some of the posts actually dropping knowledge? Unless I'm reading wrong.

You think Epic is getting it's info on next gen hardware from IGN?
Diablos
(04-04-2012, 08:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by guldakot

Nah sorry, didn't mean to imply that it would be super expensive, but it would definately be more complex and your looking at increased cost from that.

With these specs I could see a $350-$399 launch price, although it should be lower then that.

$250-300 seems reasonable. There's a lot of ways to make the money back these days. And it's more than likely not going to be like PS3 where Sony was losing hundreds of dollars on every console sold.
theBishop
Banned
(04-04-2012, 08:28 PM)
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APU+GPU... might be less powerful than full sli setup rumored for Xbox. Possibly a little more complicated to take advantage of both. But maybe cheaper, with lower power consumption/heat.
AndyD
aka andydumi
(04-04-2012, 08:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alchemy

Isn't Portal 2 Steam compatible on the PS3 and not the 360?

It is, and very well integrated too, fast, smooth, easy. But I still don't have faith in Sony to hand the reigns of online to Valve. If they do, it would be a significant upper hand over MS.
brain_stew
Hello friend! Have you heard the good news about Jesus PC gaming?
(04-04-2012, 08:29 PM)

Originally Posted by wsippel

The systems need to be affordable and shouldn't set your house on fire, though.

They can still do that with a ~2 teraflop GPU.
nordique
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:29 PM)
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People who don't understand console hardware development need to keep in mind that, if accurate (and as ridiculous as IGN are, they generally have solid sources), these specs very much make sense.


First off, Sony is not in a position to be losing money on the latest and greatest in graphics card technologies. They have a new president, they have a new vision, and they likely want to make money from the get-go. Their old business model made them lose a lot of money, and when a company like Nintendo comes along and redefines the very video game business model that seemed to initially work, while making hundreds of millions of dollars doing so, from a business perspective (which is what Sony is at the end of the day: a business), it makes sense to go with lower end hardware. Sony themselves stated not too long ago their next home console won't produce graphics drastically superior than the PS3. Next Gen is going to be more about interface and delivery than just graphics improvement

Second off, the systems will be developed in a closed system environment. The graphics will look better than current HD systems, and when tools are optimized, the systems will all display an improvement over what is currently on the market. These specs are much better than the PS3 for example. The GPU alone is a large improvement.

Third, and important to note, is that Sony did not wake up a few months ago and start designing a system. They've been working on their next gen specifications since before they launched the redesigned PS3. While we were all waiting for Uncharted 2 to come out in 2009, Sony was researching what would make the most sense for next gen. They don't just make a plan and go with it; there are multiple options they have and they look at their needs and desires and goals, and build hardware around that.

Sony is a technology company but they have also been bleeding a lot of money. People do not realize how dire their situation can become if they have another PS3-style level of losses. Their home consoles before that were one of the few areas where the company as a whole made money. The design behind the Vita is more about best-bang-for-buck, not cutting edge graphics.

These Orbis/PS4 games will still look better than the PS3's best. That will happen.

Its just the realities of the video game business presently is that upgrades will not be as everyone hoped. Just like the Nintendo fanboy dreams of 10x 360, the Sony/Microsoft fanboy dreams of 10x 360 aren't going to be true either.


That said, consider the context: tools need to be optimized (look at what optimization did for the PS3 and 360, and that is very likely the real reason certain Wii U developers are complaining about graphics power from that system -- because they did not optimize their tools specifically for the Wii U)

and under a closed system environment, with optimized graphics, specifically tailored for the PS4, we will see a system creating graphics that are and will be a noticeable step up from the PS3.

Context is key. This may be underwhelming to some, but completely expected to those who understand the bigger picture industry trends.
Lonely1
Junior Member
(04-04-2012, 08:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by brain_stew

No SI GPU's will ever be that weak. Apart from some future APUs perhaps.

They might be trying to approach a future APU performance, but yeah, the architecture doesn't fit that purpose as you said. Maybe they are talking about a down-clocked 7700's?
Cipherr
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(04-04-2012, 08:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Projectjustice

Ignorance? Yea lets talk about ignorance. For every dev that says that Wii U specs are below ps360, i can find you a dev that says otherwise. Dont try and throw the ignorance crap at me when all you seem to be doing is selective reading.

Wow really? The other 4 freaking "Wish upon a star for WiiU specs" threads aren't enough to bottle that discussion up? It needs to extend its tentacles into this one as well?
Hex
Junior Member
(04-04-2012, 08:30 PM)
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Please great red fonted lords above give us a sticky for each of the three consoles for rumors.

Haunted
(04-04-2012, 08:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by -Pyromaniac-

first week of june

That's too long! I can't take all this speculation!
tapedeck
Do I win a prize for talking about my penis on the Internet???
(04-04-2012, 08:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by apana

Equivalent to how many gamecubes?

64 Gamecubes, 6 rolls of duct tape. Approximately.
mysteriousmage09
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(04-04-2012, 08:31 PM)
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These rumors are getting stupid as hell. This is just full fledged "give us site hits!" stuff now.
Diablos
(04-04-2012, 08:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by tapedeck

64 Gamecubes, 6 rolls of duct tape. Approximately.

And a tube of Gorilla Glue.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
(04-04-2012, 08:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Diablos

There should be at a minimum 4GB of main memory for next-gen consoles.


Yes, it has to and i think we will get it with Durango. MS is asking and listening to their third party developers and those made i more than clear that 2 GB of RAM won`t get the job done for what they are targeting for. Epic wants it, Crytek wants it, Dice wants it.... and if you consider that those guys will provide the engines for most next gen games, i`m confident MS will make sure that their console can run those engines the best again.
-Pyromaniac-
(04-04-2012, 08:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by bigtroyjon

You think Epic is getting it's info on next gen hardware from IGN?

I think they talk a lot of shit (devs and ign).
sykoex
Lost all credibility.
(04-04-2012, 08:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by disappeared

Does this mean it'll run Crysis?

Sure, if there's backwards compatibility.
Krauser Kat
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(04-04-2012, 08:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Diablos

So getting the board to support 4GB of RAM is going to make PS4 $500-600 as some people suggest...? I don't really buy that.

Please stop talking you are out of your realm.

Ram inside consoles is faster and soldered to the board. Take a stick of ram and lay in on its side then double that area. All of that space would have to be dedicated to just ram. Its a watse of space for a console that is most likely only going to do 1080p and running on an os that uses less than 200mb. You halve that with 512 stacks but they are going to use ram faster than ddr3.

Not to mention sticks of ddr3 are mass produced by the millions. You cant ramp up the creation of entire mother boards with cpus and ram and two 2 gpus on it like you can on a stick of ram.

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