[bgassassin]

So nextbox wins again? More power and easier to write game for? bummer

Wins again? I'm not really impressed by what "they did" this gen. Just because they may have done things to appease developers guarantees nothing.

[Ashes1396]

I'm not sure anymore, what I want from gaming. But what I want from the big three is to sell me something at the ps2 price.

Sell me the ps4 for £299. On the principle of getting from me, £4.99 a month for ps+ for the remaining 5 years.

299+(5*24)= 420.
299+(5*60)=600

Gaming is too expensive.

On a separate note, I don't like the bombardment of advertising, and the millions of icons. The best most popular Internet standards set minimal advertising. Google, YouTube, Facebook etc, now have way too much advertising.

[Shikoro]

/cut

I'm not OK with this...

[Durante]

Oh, you're talking about tech risk. I would say pushing the tech envelope with 360 is the biggest risk, and it resulted in RROD.

Shoddy engineering resulted in RROD. With better cooling or a more well thought out distribution of the internal components it wouldn't have happened.

[RamzaIsCool]

This interview with Jack Tretton (5.30) really gives me hope on what direction Sony is going with PS4.

[Bluemercury]

This interview with Jack Tretton (5.30) really gives me hope on what direction Sony is going with PS4.

Can you resume what he says??im at work :P

[RamzaIsCool]

Can you resume what he says??im at work :P

Geoff asked Jack if they are keen to beat Microsoft to the market in the next console cycle. Jack answered that Sony's number one goal is to have the best machine and if that means it will come after their competitors then so be it. They want a machine that has longitivity and doesn't run out of gas on the long run.

[TEH-CJ]

*happy sigh* I love gaming.

[Brad Grenz]

Jack made clear in that Interview that Sony is doubling down on core gaming. MS can chase media deals, Nintendo can give it a go with their confusing controller strategy, but Sony just wants to zero in on gaming as their core ethos. That's very heartening, indeed.

[TEH-CJ]

Jack made clear in that Interview that Sony is doubling down on core gaming. MS can chase media deals, Nintendo can give it a go with their confusing controller strategy, but Sony just wants to zero in on gaming as their core ethos. That's very heartening, indeed.

Indeed. I really like jacks attitude towards the gaming industry. he is a passionate guy. thats why I have been a loyal sony fan since 1995.

[Shikoro]

Jack made clear in that Interview that Sony is doubling down on core gaming. MS can chase media deals, Nintendo can give it a go with their confusing controller strategy, but Sony just wants to zero in on gaming as their core ethos. That's very heartening, indeed.

This is the best news that has come out of E3. Leave the casual crap to MS and N, and focus on core games which they are known for.

[mrklaw]

Geoff asked Jack if they are keen to beat Microsoft to the market in the next console cycle. Jack answered that Sony's number one goal is to have the best machine and if that means it will come after their competitors then so be it. They want a machine that has longitivity and doesn't run out of gas on the long run.

isn't that what they did this time? Didn't work out so well. Can they give MS a years head start and still succeed if they launch at a reasonable price? Hmm. Maybe. Not sure I'd want to risk it unless they genuinely feel they can get a big step forward in tech that is noticable.

[Bluemercury]

Lets wait and see...

[thuway]

isn't that what they did this time? Didn't work out so well. Can they give MS a years head start and still succeed if they launch at a reasonable price? Hmm. Maybe. Not sure I'd want to risk it unless they genuinely feel they can get a big step forward in tech that is noticable.

They actually didn't do that. They were set to release their console in 2005, but a flurry of bullshit came into the equation. For example, blu laser diode shortages (MS strategic move to include the HD-DVD), low yields, and many other issues. This time, as long as they stick to more conventional hardware with the Sony twist (something that dev's worker harder for that gives them a wealthy girth of power)- it will be awesome :).

Jack made clear in that Interview that Sony is doubling down on core gaming. MS can chase media deals, Nintendo can give it a go with their confusing controller strategy, but Sony just wants to zero in on gaming as their core ethos. That's very heartening, indeed.

This is thread worthy.

[Kanguro]

I seem to recall a Sony exec (Maybe Yoshida?) saying that the PSV had to be fairly cutting edge graphics wise because thats part of Playstation's "DNA". I hope that they mantain this attitude with the PS4.

I hope Microsoft also goes for a cutting edge loss making console. Honestly, although the loss leader model that's been followed by most manufacturers since the PS1 is bad for business, I don't see how you can be against it as a gamer. It means we get more powerful consoles, cheaper and some company's stockholders foot the bill. I'm all for it!

The more I see Nintendo try to revolutionize gaming the more I realize it's an evolutionary medium. If we don't have console manufacturers going all out power wise then we're left with a bunch of middling power machines that try to out gimmick each other with new control interfaces.

Jack made clear in that Interview that Sony is doubling down on core gaming. MS can chase media deals, Nintendo can give it a go with their confusing controller strategy, but Sony just wants to zero in on gaming as their core ethos. That's very heartening, indeed.

LOL that's why they spent 30 minutes demoing Wonderbook?

[gaming_noob]

Jack made clear in that Interview that Sony is doubling down on core gaming. MS can chase media deals, Nintendo can give it a go with their confusing controller strategy, but Sony just wants to zero in on gaming as their core ethos. That's very heartening, indeed.

Core gaming is on the top of both agendas (MS and Nintendo), I can assure you that. What is this fud?

[sun-drop]

did any one catch the jack tretton interview on game trailers?

SO awesome to hear that sony are still focused on delivering the best possible machine, as apposed to the cheapest or first.

i was worried they would be tempted to water things down ...i still want the Ferrari of console gaming.

[Akira]

did any one catch the jack tretton interview on game trailers? SO awesome to hear that sony are still focused on delivering the best possible machine, as apposed to the cheapest or first. i was worried they would be tempted to water things down ...i still want the Ferrari of console gaming.

OR he's just saying what people want to hear? Unless he says flat out that Sony is going to release something as powerful as the PS3 for its time, I'll just think of it as campaigning.

[systemfehler]

Core gaming is on the top of both agendas (MS and Nintendo), I can assure you that. What is this fud?

Yes all have core gamers on their agenda but the ranking is different. Look at the MS E3 press conference from a EU citzizen standpoint. We don't get all that media (Hulu, music service, etc) stuff. Then there is a lot about smartGlass, Kinect and a much smaller part is about core games. Nintendo was even worse with NintendoLand, social features, ... a Batman port doesn't help a core gamer.

So Sony is in my eyes the truest company when it comes to "hardcore" gamers and I am glad to see that Jack Tretton agrees. I only worry is that with Sony being hit with money problems and restructuring someone like Tretton doesn't have much to say when it comes to the future of Playstation brand.

If I interpret his interview correctly I think a 2014 launch with better hardware seems more likely than a 2013 rushed launch.

[Log4Girlz]

so the CPU-APU should be around what, Wii U power give or take a few gflops, then factor in the discrete GPU and you're talking about a nice system.

[Shikoro]

so the CPU-APU should be around what, Wii U power give or take a few gflops, then factor in the discrete GPU and you're talking about a nice system.

Still not good enough. I want a much beefier system, and I'm having faith now that Jack said what the said...

[Giant Panda]

If Sony goes too powerful it will be too expensive, so I hope Jack is just BSing without it indicating the direction of the PS4. Best to target just somewhat better than Wii U. It won't be a normal generational leap (heat will prevent this), but it will mean a healthier ecosystem for the games while still having great graphics.

Also a new controller would be nice, the Dualshock is outdated and stale. They just need to avoid Nintendo's problem of having three separate controllers.

[ides of march]

The HD7670 is the exact same thing as the HD6670 IGN said was in the next Xbox. It's also way weaker than what many people are expecting for the next gen of consoles. That said, if there's any truth to this at all, these are the specs of the PCs the devs have started development on, not actual console parts.

Was thinking this a 7670 is a low-end card. and the ps4 is at lest a year away. ps3 had a 9800 more or less (same gpu any way) which at launch time was one of the most powerful cards out there

[Brad Grenz]

Core gaming is on the top of both agendas (MS and Nintendo), I can assure you that. What is this fud?

MS is on autopilot. They didn't show a single retail game on less than its third iteration on the 360. Most were the sixth in a series or higher. They're turning over the same dirt year after year.

Nintendo is just a mess. They have no interest in competing on hardware and their controller strategy is so schitsophrenic at this point they are just lost in the woods.

Sony braced their conference with two core-focused, new AAA IP. It's not hard to see who is actually focused on their effort to appeal to the core.

[Marco1]

I never bothered with Sony this generation because the launch £425 PS3 did nothing that my 360 could do but with I am willing to give MS a chance even with their new media focus and put it down to the fact that I think they are 90% focused on nextbox BUT if they're not and you guys are correct about PS4 then I'm coming back to Sony and MS can keep going after that kinect crowd.

[thuway]

Core gaming is on the top of both agendas (MS and Nintendo), I can assure you that. What is this fud?

Did you watch their presser?

[thuway]

so the CPU-APU should be around what, Wii U power give or take a few gflops, then factor in the discrete GPU and you're talking about a nice system.

In all honesty, its not powerful to run some of the stuff we saw at 1080p. I don't want to be forever stuck in a 720p world (non PC that is).

[Cornbread78]

Yes, Now keep your word Jack, I want the best GAMING system possible, not a modified media hub, and not a cheap rehash. Just get me the best system and gave possible and I will continue to look as Sont first. However, if you flounder... that dusty 360 on my shelf will get fired up finally... Take that as a warning...

[StevieP]

[onQ123]

????


is there more to this post? why did you just post this?

[Shikoro]

???? is there more to this post? why did you just post this?

Look at how they are happy and all. That surely means that we'll be happy when we hear about the specs. :D

Here's to hoping, at least...

[StevieP]

Look at how they are happy and all. That surely means that we'll be happy when we hear about the specs. :D Here's to hoping, at least...

Tretton is playing you, as he damn well should be. The PS4 will be focused toward "everyone" just as the other consoles are. They have fantastic first party studios that will cater to you, as well as others.

Unless you like last place consoles, you have to cater to more than just a tiny (vocal) minority. The first sketches leaked of the Orbis concept should speak volumes to you.

[deadlast]

MS is on autopilot... Nintendo is just a mess... Sony braced their conference with two core-focused, new AAA IP. It's not hard to see who is actually focused on their effort to appeal to the core.

Wonderbook says hi

[jeff_rigby]

???? is there more to this post? why did you just post this?

Trolling the hardcore that don't want casual interfaces; umgawa me want power.

Next generation is also about interfaces like USB3, Infinity view, Display Port that can drive multiple monitors as well as LCD glasses with a power line built into the cable. All these allow for more powerful and less expensive accessories.

CPU power is coming as BOTH have rumored specs of about 16 CPUs performance whether it's the Durango 16 CPUs or the early PS4 with 16 SPUs or the AMD Fusion CPU-GPU with 400 elements that coincidentally equal about 16 SPUs. These specs are too close to be anything but by design. Both are going to have voice and Kinect 2.0 functionality.

And I really think Orbis is about the ecosystem that interfaces with the PS3 or PS4. Camera, Phones, Vita, Voice recognition, gesture recognition, remote play, remote touchscreen control, RVU Remote View and more.

[StevieP]

CPU power is coming as BOTH have rumored specs of about 16 CPUs performance whether it's the Durango 16 CPUs or the early PS4 with 16 SPUs or the AMD Fusion CPU-GPU with 400 elements that coincidentally equal about 16 SPUs. These specs are too close to be anything but by design. Both are going to have voice and Kinect 2.0 functionality.

Jeff c'mon... you're cool and all, but...

[Trickster]

Wonderbook says hi

one casual game means they're not focusing on the core?

[Rayge]

Well, I've been waiting on these new consoles to hit for over a year now. If these specs are anywhere close to true... then I'm just going to keep gaming on my pad and phone while using my PC for more graphic heavy games. Developers are bringing more and more games to the PC and with consoles having DirectX11 maybe console ports on the PC won't be so terrible. I'm not very knowledgeable on the technical aspects of everything, but I know enough to understand that the specs that are floating around as rumors right now put the PS4 and the new Xbox as a weaker platform than my laptop.

[onQ123]

Well, I've been waiting on these new consoles to hit for over a year now. If these specs are anywhere close to true... then I'm just going to keep gaming on my pad and phone while using my PC for more graphic heavy games. Developers are bringing more and more games to the PC and with consoles having DirectX11 maybe console ports on the PC won't be so terrible. I'm not very knowledgeable on the technical aspects of everything, but I know enough to understand that the specs that are floating around as rumors right now put the PS4 and the new Xbox as a weaker platform than my laptop.

but who is going to make a game to your laptop specs?

[Brad Grenz]

Wonderbook says hi

What do you think this comment proves? How does one new application of Sony's (industry leading) AR tech undo their deep investment in ambitious, original core content?

[Melchiah]

They actually didn't do that. They were set to release their console in 2005, but a flurry of bullshit came into the equation. For example, blu laser diode shortages (MS strategic move to include the HD-DVD), low yields, and many other issues. This time, as long as they stick to more conventional hardware with the Sony twist (something that dev's worker harder for that gives them a wealthy girth of power)- it will be awesome :).

So, you're saying Microsoft was responsible for those shortages? A honest question, I'm not trying to be sarcastic.

[jeff_rigby]

Going through the SimiAccurate forum and found this:

AI technique such as Neural Network(image, handwriting recognition) and Genetic Algorithm(optimization used in planning) basically performs searches in parallel. AI techniques are best implemented in a system with many cores. A 1K nodes Neural Network or a Genetic Algorithm with 1K population size will perform 1K searches in parallel. These algorithms do not need a lot of memory. 100MBytes of memory is should be more than enough. What AI algorithm needs is more processing cores. Currently, the GPU and CPU does not have a common address space. The algorithm needs to move the memory between the GPU and CPU many times during the execution. The memory swaps make implementation of AI on GPU not very efficient. Once the GPU and CPU share the same memory space, it will be very efficient to implement AI on GPU. If GPU and CPU share the same memory space in Kaveri, Kaveri will have great impact how software is implemented. AI, Computer Vision and linear programming implemented on GPU will be many times faster than implemented on CPU. There will be alot more AI and Computer Vision application on the laptop.

The PS4 SOC should have 100 megs or so of VERY VERY fast "common" memory in the SOC. It's possible to have more, to have the entire system memory in the SOC. This is not likely though if the second GPU is external and also Full HSA using a GDDR memory buss rather than PCIe.

In exclusive we have the detailed first specs (not final) for PS4, most likely first alpha kits sent to developers (10 months old). This is apparently not even a Fusion APU. Best thing to take out of this early Alpha Developer spec is that the target is 10X the PS3:

TLDR SPECS CPU 4 core (2 core pairs) 3.2 GHz AMD x86 (Steamroller) (rumored changed to 2 Jaguar CPUs with 2 gigs cache each) aggregate, 10x PS3 PPU performance 512 KByte L2 per core pair 64 bit pointers GPU AMD R10x series GPU @ 800 MHz (Tahiti) aggregate 10x RSX performance, 1.84 TFlops DX”11.5″ cheap branching 18 compute units, focus on fine grained compute & tessellation MEMORY: 2 GByte UMA, pushing for 4 GByte 192 GByte/ sec non-coherent access for e.g. GPU 12 GByte/ sec coherent access for CPU >50% longer memory latency for CPU/ GPU compared to PC!!! DXT is lowest bpp texture compression format MEDIA: 50 GByte BD drive PCAV, between 3.3 and 8x BD, most likely clamped to 6x automatic background caching to HDD HDD SKU with at least 380 GByte downloadable games EXTRA HARDWARE: video encoder/ decoder audio processing unit, ~200 concurrent MP3 streams HW zlib decompressor Our source claims that the final specs should be 10x powerful than PS3, due to this info has got 10 months.

Spec numbers that IGN posted are from first/early dev kits that have been replaced in mid January. Now I repeat what I know is based on second dev kits that DO NOT represent the final product. Kits will most definitely change. Before I reveal SOME of the specs let me tell you that based on what we have heard in our studio from our publisher is that Sony was undecided if they should go for a high end machine and take on MS or go for 1.5 leap. According to rumors a couple of Sonys first party studios are asking for high end machine to make games that are going to have noticeable generation leap. While Hirai and other heads over in Japan think it's time to think about profitability. For now "fight" is some where in between, edging more towards higher end. RAM has been raised from 2GB to 4GB when most of bigger publishers and first party studios that have saying went mental. CPU yes it is true Sony is moving away from the CELL. Will there be BC? Our publisher doesn't care and we haven't heard a word about it. Again since these are dev kits we can't know more than that 99% Cell is done and dusted. Second dev kit uses APU design AMD A8-3870k redesigned to have HD 6850 on board. And yes SI rumors are true. APU is paired with the HD Radeon HD 7900. No HDD rumors are untrue since it has already been confirmed that just like PS3, every "Orbis" SKU will have large HDD since Sony is very eager to make Orbis the media hub. O and one more thing Orbis will support 4 layer BR discs from day 1."

"Orbis will support 4 layer BR discs from day 1" most likely means that Orbis will be a 4K blu-ray player also (4 layer + h.265= 4K Blu-ray) All PS3s can support 4K video but only Slim blu-ray drives may be able to read 4 layers. (To not fragment the PS3, Sony may not enable 4K blu-ray on the PS3.) Dev kits are not final design and final design may include 2 (1PPU4SPU) modules with software to support Backward compatibility as well as support Floating Point number crunching (rumor has 2 Jaguar cores without FPU in final SOC design).

Edit: From BY3D referring to the 4p 2 Jaguar cores with 2 meg cache rumor:

4P refers to 4 cores, so this would have two units of 4 cores, both of them connected to their own 2MB pool of cache, for a total of 8 cores and 4MB cache. ... which would be pretty pathetic. One bobcat core at 1.6GHz is roughly 3-4 times faster than one Xenon thread at 3.2GHz in integer, so unless Jaguar is a real upset, that's realistically less than 5 times the power of Xenon, on 8 threads. It would be pretty low power and low cost.

That's why I keep posting 2.5D stacking news released by the company that Charlie's "Far Future AMD GPU Prototype" picture originated from. Moreover, Charlie made it rather clear that SONY is going for a "multi-chip-on-interposer" HSA design that is supposed to be gradually integrated into a cheaper, monolithic SoC later in the life cycle. We also heard about "two GPUs", so its probably going to be APU + dedicated GPU - with the APU-GPU basically reserved for GPGPU computation. "Interposer inclusion defines the 2.5D approach. It will route thousands of interconnections between the devices. Coupled with true 3D stacked die (enabled by TSVs), the high routing density and short chip-to-chip interconnect ensures the highest possible performance while packing as much functionality as possible into the smallest footprint. Functional blocks may include a microprocessor or special purpose logic IC (GPU, applications processor, ASIC, FPGA, etc.) connected through high-speed circuitry to other logic devices or memory (DRAM, SRAM, Flash) ..."

Stacked Memory plus GPU plus substrate. Two of the 4 CUSTOM memory chips are in the red dotted circle (could be total 256 or 512 bit wide). This is the same 2.5D substrate + Interposer technology we will probably see supporting the PS4 SOC just with PS4 SOC much LARGER. It also looks like the following picture includes Southbridge. Just missing the CPUs and MMU for CPU and it would be a APU including memory.



AMD Process Optimized building blocks includes custom memory (from AMD) and cites I posted confirm Micron developed Custom memory for AMD to include in next generation game consoles; the picture confirms Stacked memory, most likely 256 or 512 ultra wide I/O. Stacked memory in the PS4 SOC is possible, the picture proves it.

Summary of Next Generation game console technology.

[jeff_rigby]

I can't believe this, a guy in 2009 posted this in a Cell is dead thread:

Next-gen consoles should have APUs to perform some tasks like physics calculations in the CPU. Additionally, because next-gen consoles will need to achieve quality and performance of current high-end, I don't think an APU can be done on a reasonably small die in 22 nm (which should be approaching bulk in 2013). After a year or two, they will be able to integrate half of the graphics die at twice the clocks into an APU to allow all of the performance. In fact, I would dare to think that with consoles being a very specific market, assuming that next-gen architecture in consoles (PS4, Xbox 720 category) will be exclusively made by AMD will include the following: APU: multiple (4-8) integer cores; APU: few (1-2) floating-point cores; APU: some (200-400) shaders; GPU: a lot (2000-4000) of shaders in a separate die clocked at about half the clock of the APU. In time, with integration going up, at about 1 node later, GPU could be clocked higher with less shaders (1000-2000), bringing the GPU cost down. At the same time, APU will not go down in price, but will gain faster-clocked shaders and increase their number to some 400-800. One more node away, the manufacturer could get rid of the GPU completely, after increasing the number of shaders in the APU to ca. 1000-2000, clocked at twice the initial speed of GPU. At that time, the APU still costs the same as it did initially, but the GPU is gone, so price goes down. In time, the APU will shrink, integrate more components, bringing the total price to a bargain. FWIW, that's my take on the market.

In response to this:

I don't see how this is bad news: Newer and better technology will replace the Cell that was rumored to be in the PS4. Maybe it will be another version of the Cell. Or (let's start rumors) I just heard that it will use the Bulldozer core!!! Wel according to http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/16530/1/ it shows that all fused cores are doomed to fail leaving only the one true GPU manufacturer to rule them all: Quote: The Cell inspired both Intel and AMD to create the Larrabee and AMD Fusion respectively. In other words, one or more general purpose cores fused with a number of stream processing units.

Just to remind people, Sony did file a Cell patent (1PPU4SPU) in Dec 2010 for what looks like a AMD HSA and Global foundries drop into AMD SOC Building block wafer. And in March of 2011 AMD was saying their Fusion design would be perfect for a Game console.

EDIT: SemiAccurate article about onlive which brings up the possibility (similar to Folding@home) of using idle AMD Fusion HSA platforms to support Onlive = Sony Dec 2011 patent = Virtual machine + APU = Virtual machine + (PPU+SPU) = Sony 2011 Cell Vision =>> 2013 eLinux with Wayland (OpenCL GTKwebkit with Zlib and h.265 ) + HSAIL Virtual machine =>> AMD + Sony + Onlive

Rumors of BOTH PS4 and Durango having multiple standby modes would be a necessary feature. Next generation Game CONSOLE with large hard disk is going to act as a server for handhelds. Going one further, the console can substitute for the onlive Cloud GPU and allow playing of AAA games on TVs and handhelds (low GPU power CE platforms). Something Sony would want?

[Arkham]

(everything)

You're V'ger. <slow clap>

Tag'im up, boys.

[jeff_rigby]

You're V'ger. <slow clap> Tag'im up, boys.

Thanks, I added this after you posted:

SemiAccurate article about onlive which brings up the possibility (similar to Folding@home) of using idle AMD Fusion HSA platforms to support Onlive = Sony Dec 2011 patent = Virtual machine + APU = Virtual machine + (PPU+SPU) = Sony 2011 Cell Vision =>> 2013 eLinux with Wayland (OpenCL GTKwebkit with Zlib and h.265 ) + HSAIL Virtual machine =>> AMD + Sony + Onlive

Rumors of BOTH PS4 and Durango having multiple standby modes which would be a necessary feature. Next generation Game CONSOLEs with large hard disk are going to act as servers for handhelds. Going one further, the Game console can substitute for the onlive Cloud GPU and allow playing of AAA games on TVs and handhelds (low GPU power CE platforms). Something Sony would want?

Onlive uses a subset of the libraries supporting a Web browser to display/interface with Onlive. WebGL on platforms that have powerful GPUs and Onlive on platforms Like TVs with a Web browser. PSN/Sony will allow you to play AAA games purchased for the PS4 on your tablet, Vita, Android tablet or Handheld, your TV or Blu-ray player. This is just one use the SimiAccurate article mentioned, it's also similar to the Google Chrome OS vision of the Cloud.

The idea is nothing new as VNC has been providing Remote PC desktop for years. There is a PSP remote desktop hack and a Vita remote PC desktop that's not finished yet. What would be new is what composition backends (instead of Xwindows which supported remote terminals and remote desktop) like Wayland might bring us, remote applications and games based on EGL support for OpenVG and OpenGLES2 which can support CairoGL.

My read anyway. For us this again SHOULD have Sony subsidizing a very powerful PS4 as it helps sell their CE equipment and Games. The endgame for the PS3 will be seen in the next 6 months and should fully cement Sony as the must have Home Theater platform casual game - Children's educational resource - Family entertainment center - Resource center - etc with next generation building on what was started by the PS3. Free access to the Internet, HTML5 apps and the web browser are part of this.

[DieH@rd]

So, we have 3 possible configurations according to all rumors:

1. only APU [2 steamroller or jaguar modules with 78xx GPU (~1840gflops)]
2. APU [2 modules + 68xx on chip gpu] + external 79xx class GPU
3. APU +possible GPU +possible 1 or 2 mini CELLs

[Brad Grenz]

Whether or not there is an additional external GPU, everything is going to be from the same shader architecture. So GCN in the APU and GCN in the GPU, or VLIW5 in the APU and VLIW5 in the GPU.

[mrklaw]

if its a 'normal' AMD APU the GPU isn't that amazing, but I could see Sony going with something like that and using the embedded GPU for ancillary tasks. eg physics acceleration, encoding video for remote play to vita, post processing etc. Then have a separate GPU for the main grunt work.

Otherwise for a proper next gen console you'd need a completely custom solution - there isn't anything on the normal AMD APU roadmap with the kind of power we're talking about here is there? and if AMD could squeeze a quad core CPU alongside a 7970m level GPU on one chip, why wouldn't they have done that for the PC market?

[Maleficence]

one casual game means they're not focusing on the core?

According to some focus on the hardcore means that EVERYTHING should be hardcore.

[jeff_rigby]

So, we have 3 possible configurations according to all rumors: 1. only APU [2 steamroller or jaguar modules with 78xx GPU (~1840gflops)] 2. APU [2 modules + 68xx on chip gpu] + external 79xx class GPU 3. APU +possible GPU +possible 1 or 2 mini CELLs

Yup, and the mini-cell is only from me and the AVX, AVX2 issue with Jaguar not including a FPU and the Mini-cell would fit that use case very well. It also could be used for backward compatibility and I expect Sony has lots of Cell code that could be used to extend AMDs libraries. It also provides a very flexible (more than a FPU would be) processor.

[JonathanPower]

So if the PS4 CPU is gonna be a OoOe CPU as it seems, will durango be a OoOe CPU also ? If the PS3 will have a powerful multicore X86 AMD cpu, it will be incredibly easy to program for, in comparison with the traditional in order CPUs that we are used in current consoles.