[elcranky]

Like Japan?

Japan has basically been irrelevant since the launch of the PS3.

[Satchel]

We've never seen Sony taking any other route but cutting edge so why do you assume this should be obvious to anybody?

This.

I expect Sony to learn almost nothing from the PS3, and the Vita should have reminded people of that.

PS4 will end up another "hard to work with, but worth the effort" expensive console.

I hope for their sake it's not, but remember, while Kaz is a new CEO, he's not exactly fresh blood.

[StevieP]

This. I expect Sony to learn almost nothing from the PS3, and the Vita should have reminded people of that. PS4 will end up another "hard to work with, but worth the effort" expensive console. I hope for their sake it's not, but remember, while Kaz is a new CEO, he's not exactly fresh blood.

Developers are jumping for joy at what's inside the PS4, from a development perspective.

What? The 360 outsold the PS3 in North America, but the PS3 outsold the 360 in every other major region (Europe, Japan and the remaining WW sales).

The PS3 was a disaster in every metric that mattered. That they managed to salvage it with fantastic quality software and hardware sell-through numbers that were no longer pathetic is like telling a dude who's bleeding from his jugular that his arms and legs are still mostly attached.

[vilmer_]

This is all very interesting.

[Limanima]

Hurray for the console wars!!
We need some XBox 720 "news"!!

[Shogmaster]

Seems like a complete waste of transistors. No reason to double up like that, unless one is dedicated to another screen or something. Even then, it's stupid.

Just seems like a very inefficient design for a console. Seems more like a laptop than anything else.

[i-Lo]

Japan has basically been irrelevant since the launch of the PS3.

Since when did 8 million buyers suddenly become "irrelevant"?

Edit: Thanks StevieP for showing up.

[Globox_82]

Developers are jumping for joy at what's inside the PS4, from a development perspective. The PS3 was a disaster in every metric that mattered. That they managed to salvage it with fantastic quality software and hardware sell-through numbers that were no longer pathetic is like telling a dude who's bleeding from his jugular that his arms and legs are still mostly attached.

PS3 is only a couple of millions behind 360 in WW sales. On top of that MS had cheaper console and a year head start in NA and year and a half in Europe. To have that pathetic "lead" is just well pathetic as I said.
Of course MS won but Sony didn't do so bad as haters want to make everyone believe.
And who knows what real sales of xbox 360 are when we know RROD factor.
In the end who cares about numbers, just don't try to make Sony look like they sol 20 million of their consoles. vs close to 70 million in reality.
I repeat MS won vs Sony but no matter what Sony was never going to repeat their PS1,2 dominance, and they never will in the future. Those days are gone

[Norml]

Why? The rumored GPU is in the same ballpark as the GPU that the Wii U is based of, or even a little slower and the CPU is far from a speed demon as well. Those integrated graphics won't make that big a difference.

Wouldn't the recent rumors make WiiU comparable to just the APU in PS4?

[jrDev]

So giving the PS4 8GB of main ram and 2-4GB of vram is going to make it $500? Really? RAM is so cheap today it's ridiculous... might as well take advantage. And if it uses a desktop x64 quad core chip there's no way it's going to be anywhere close to $500 unless they put 64GB of DDR5 in. With the amount of money they'd save by going with AMD, they can more than likely afford to put more/faster memory in.

I'm sorry, I can't help it. Everytime I read a post like this, I start laughing.

This is not how things work! MS/Sony and Nintendo do not shop at newegg and the RAM in consoles are different from the one you find at "bargin bin" websites...

[i-Lo]

StevieP, is the hardware speculators outside the industry are flux or the actual designers of the hardware still haven't made up their mind (which means the there is a possibility for this design's existence)?

[Globox_82]

Hurray for the console wars!! We need some XBox 720 "news"!!

VG247 will probably fulfill your wish, just give them time to come up with their own nonsense rumor to gain back those hits. It's hits war out there.

[Durante]

Seems like a complete waste of transistors. No reason to double up like that, unless one is dedicated to another screen or something. Even then, it's stupid.

I don't know. In conjunction with split memory pools, it would make a lot of sense to have a pool of streaming cores available to work on the CPU memory pool independently of whatever the GPU is doing.

[Raistlin]

This rumor doesnt make much since. I would to see the logistics and datapaths for a machine like this.

Most PC's are like this at a high level ... though a laptop using Llano + discrete GPU would probably be a closer cousin in overall architecture.

16 gigs of ram would have 0 impact on gaming. Doesn't even help speed up general use. It's only utilized for specific purposes unrelated to gaming like VMs. None of which things consoles are going to do. That's one reason why people are lol'ing at your suggestions.

Open enough applications on a PC and it matters :D

[StevieP]

StevieP, is the hardware speculators outside the industry are flux or the actual designers of the hardware still haven't made up their mind (which means the there is a possibility for this design's existence)?

I don't have any specifics in regards to IGN's source. Just that whatever is in dev kits doesn't necessarily match the final 2012/2013 *targets* for these consoles - which have already been speculated in other threads. This includes the Wii U kits and the Durango kits. What IGN is looking at is not necessarily a representation of the final hardware, which can be modified up until 6-9 months prior to launch. In the finalization stages, the most they can do is bump up (or down) stuff like clock speeds. Early dev kits often end up being poor-but-workable representations of the final hardware.

PS3 is only a couple of millions behind 360 in WW sales. On top of that MS had cheaper console and a year head start in NA and year and a half in Europe. To have that pathetic "lead" is just well pathetic as I said. Of course MS won but Sony didn't do so bad as haters want to make everyone believe. And who knows what real sales of xbox 360 are when we know RROD factor. In the end who cares about numbers, just don't try to make Sony look like they sol 20 million of their consoles. vs close to 70 million in reality. I repeat MS won vs Sony but no matter what Sony was never going to repeat their PS1,2 dominance, and they never will in the future. Those days are gone

Paging charlequin to much-more-eloquently explain what I meant about the PS3 being an unmitigated disaster in almost every metric.

[i-Lo]

I don't have any specifics in regards to IGN's source. Just that whatever is in dev kits doesn't necessarily match the final 2012/2013 *targets* for these consoles - which have already been speculated in other threads. This includes the Wii U kits and the Durango kits. What IGN is looking at is not necessarily a representation of the final hardware, which can be modified up until 6-9 months prior to launch. In the finalization stages, the most they can do is bump up (or down) stuff like clock speeds. Early dev kits often end up being poor-but-workable representations of the final hardware.

Aye, thanks. Looks like things will be going round in circles till E3 (or thereabout) next year.

[slider]

VG247 will probably fulfill your wish, just give them time to come up with their own nonsense rumor to gain back those hits. It's hits war out there.

Hehe. But to be fair to those covering news such as this it's totally understandable that they'd actively seek out their old/current/potential new sources when a rival is getting clicks/hits with rumours.

That's not a comment on the "quality" of the rumour itself of course.

[Phoenician_Viking]

In the markets that matter, the PS3 has been absolutely destroyed.

Like Europe?

[Globox_82]

Like Europe?

there are people living in Europe?! I thought only Elfs and other mythical creatures lived in those lands...

[Petrichor]

PS3 is only a couple of millions behind 360 in WW sales. On top of that MS had cheaper console and a year head start in NA and year and a half in Europe. To have that pathetic "lead" is just well pathetic as I said. Of course MS won but Sony didn't do so bad as haters want to make everyone believe. And who knows what real sales of xbox 360 are when we know RROD factor. In the end who cares about numbers, just don't try to make Sony look like they sol 20 million of their consoles. vs close to 70 million in reality. I repeat MS won vs Sony but no matter what Sony was never going to repeat their PS1,2 dominance, and they never will in the future. Those days are gone

For sony to go from controlling the overwhelming majority of the console market for over a decade to being in last place, however close it is between second and third, can't be viewed as anything other than a complete disaster for the playstation brand. Even if the PS3 overtakes the 360 this won't change.

Even in markets like Japan and continental Europe where the 360 hasn't been competitive with it, the PS3 has sold a fraction of what the PS1 and PS2 sold at equivalent points in their lifetime. No-matter which way you slice it sony blew it this time round.

[THE:MILKMAN]

I don't have any specifics in regards to IGN's source. Just that whatever is in dev kits doesn't necessarily match the final 2012/2013 *targets* for these consoles - which have already been speculated in other threads. This includes the Wii U kits and the Durango kits. What IGN is looking at is not necessarily a representation of the final hardware, which can be modified up until 6-9 months prior to launch. In the finalization stages, the most they can do is bump up (or down) stuff like clock speeds. Early dev kits often end up being poor-but-workable representations of the final hardware.

IGN updated their article with the following:

For further clarification, the chips being used in the PlayStation 4 are based on the off-the-shelf parts detailed above and are being custom tooled for the console. Exact specs may vary.

I think this does sound like the specs they give are indeed for the devkits.

Wish IGN would make it clear they are talking about the devkits rather than PS4!

[StevieP]

Aye, thanks. Looks like things will be going round in circles till E3 (or thereabout) next year.

Considering games take a couple years to develop, Sony has to give developers *something* to work with that will approximate in some fashion what will be in the final console.

While IGN's kit insight source has a GPU subsystem that looks like it's using older hardware (i.e. Turks) than what many (including Kotaku) had heard, that doesn't mean one is wrong and one is right.

There were rumblings that the first kits went out late last year and slightly newer kits went out in January, so there certainly weren't any Southern Islands parts available then, and a 3850 would be the closest thing to a Steamroller-based SoC AMD had at the time.

Edit: ah, look above - IGN's repeating what I said. lol
The only other possibility I can dream up if that's not the case is that Sony's changed their targets and will be launching in late 2012 or early 2013... but that's far more doubtful.

[Globox_82]

IGN updated their article with the following: I think this does sound like the specs they give are indeed for the devkits. Wish IGN would make it clear they are talking about the devkits rather than PS4!

of course they are talking about dev kits. If PS4 was hitting 6 months from now, then it would be different

[KAL2006]

So how powerful are these specs in comparison to 720's rumored specs

[StevieP]

So how powerful are these specs in comparison to 720's rumored specs

Somewhere in between "remarkably and ridiculously similar" to "the Gamecube to the Xbox" depending on who you ask. As they did with IBM this generation, it seems Sony and Microsoft are sleeping with the same syphilitic hookers.

[Guy Legend]

So how powerful are these specs in comparison to 720's rumored specs

Microsoft shoots for the moon. Sony shoots for the sun.

[Glorified G]

Question tech GAF.

Would one powerful AMD 7850-7870 GPU be better in the long run than the A8-3850/7670 combo?

[Relix]

Microsoft shoots for the moon. Sony shoots for the sun.

Gotta love how that played up this gen!

[brain_stew]

So how powerful are these specs in comparison to 720's rumored specs

IGN speculated that Microsoft were using the exact same GPU.

[H_Prestige]

How likely is it that MS is also going to AMD for the CPU?

With the rumor that Sony is using DirectX, it would be pretty funny if both systems end up literally identical. Even then console fanboys would argue which has the better versions of games.

[Panajev2001a]

Yeah, but that was at at time when GPUs were quite different to today. I don't see the gain over one larger GPU? Also, a 7670+3850 APU wouldn't, on aggregate, be as good as some alternative rumours so I kind of hope this isn't true.

Physics, Animation, and AI, culling, etc... with OpenCL on the APU side + rendering on the dedicated GPU size. It does make some sense, even though I was hoping for a GCN-cores based GPU, especially if it is going to ship next year... PS4 with a 2+ years old GPU? Bah... I would not like that too much, so I hope they get some more recent HW components.

[brain_stew]

Question tech GAF. Would one powerful AMD 7850-7870 GPU be better in the long run than the A8-3850/7670 combo?

It would be far better, several times so, from day one.

[tw1164]

What's the point of 2 GPUs in a console? Is it the power/heat savings while the machine is doing something other then gaming?

[RoboPlato]

IGN speculated that Microsoft were using the exact same GPU.

Honestly, I would love it if the next-gen was as similar as possible. It would help a little bit to keep development costs down by not having to divide resources between platforms and no one would have to worry about crappy ports. Third parties will also likely be able to squeeze better results if they're all working in very similar settings.

[StevieP]

How likely is it that MS is also going to AMD for the CPU? With the rumor that Sony is using DirectX, it would be pretty funny if both systems end up literally identical. Even then console fanboys would argue which has the better versions of games.

To quote myself,

Somewhere in between "remarkably and ridiculously similar" to "the Gamecube to the Xbox" depending on who you ask. As they did with IBM this generation, it seems Sony and Microsoft are sleeping with the same syphilitic hookers.

I still think Sony will use OpenGL or some variant (like PSGL) on their end.

Question tech GAF. Would one powerful AMD 7850-7870 GPU be better in the long run than the A8-3850/7670 combo?

In pretty much every way, yes. But Cape Verde/Pitcairn/other GCN variants were not available when putting dev kits together. So... as I said, IGN could be accurate here just as Kotaku could've been accurate at the same time. Certainly Piledriver (Trinity)/Steamroller (Kaveri) aren't available at the moment to be stand-ins for the CPU.

[brain_stew]

How likely is it that MS is also going to AMD for the CPU? With the rumor that Sony is using DirectX, it would be pretty funny if both systems end up literally identical. Even then console fanboys would argue which has the better versions of games.

Sony aren't using DirectX.

[WrikaWrek]

Damn, MS and Sony are basically going to make the same system. Which IMO isn't good for Sony.

[Erasus]

How likely is it that MS is also going to AMD for the CPU? With the rumor that Sony is using DirectX, it would be pretty funny if both systems end up literally identical. Even then console fanboys would argue which has the better versions of games.

Dude MS OWNS DirectX. MS alone owns it. No way they would let sony use it

[H_Prestige]

Damn, MS and Sony are basically going to make the same system. Which IMO isn't good for Sony.

It's good if they can launch cheaper and/or earlier. They won't have to worry about including kinect in the system.

[BoobPhysics101]

Question tech GAF. Would one powerful AMD 7850-7870 GPU be better in the long run than the A8-3850/7670 combo?

Yes, much much better. I have already used the A8-3850/7670 combo (or something very similar) in my Asus K53TA laptop. It's... not that great, thanks to Microstutter.

[theBishop]

I still think Sony will use OpenGL or some variant (like PSGL) on their end.

They've been going with their own OpenGL ES implementation on PS3 and Vita. Nothing else really makes sense, I doubt Sony could license DirectX if they wanted to. Anything else would just be adding unnecessary complication.

[StevieP]

Damn, MS and Sony are basically going to make the same system. Which IMO isn't good for Sony.

Why? I've said this for more than a year now, but next gen is going to be more about services and experiences you provide to the customer. First party studios and the user experience on the platform are the differentiators more than anything else.

Software software software.

They've been going with their own OpenGL ES implementation on PS3 and Vita. Nothing else really makes sense, I doubt Sony could license DirectX if they wanted to. Anything else would just be adding unnecessary complication.

Yep, "PSGL" is that variant and I would expect them to continue using it, albeit a newer version. I think the only mention of "DirectX11" in regards to Sony was a misunderstanding that revolved around the hardware class itself.

Much as we say "the AMD 4xxx line are DX10 GPUs but the 6xxx line are DX11 GPUs" to describe their HW class to people, someone probably did the same to these reporters leaking the stories.

[Globox_82]

Dude MS OWNS DirectX. MS alone owns it. No way they would let sony use it

that's like saying Sony would not let MS use BR (yea yea I know Sony is not the only owner of BR but still they have biggest vote in it). You just license it and that's it. Sony laptops use it

[elcranky]

Since when did 8 million buyers suddenly become "irrelevant"? Edit: Thanks StevieP for showing up.

You obviously didn't read all of the posts. I only commented on sales in "relevant" territories and sales were explicitly excluded in the definition of relevant.

[USC-fan]

Seem ign used the same rumors for both nexbox and ps4.

The apu by itself is more powerful than RSX in the ps3.

GeForce 7900 GT 623 - [RSX is a little lower performance than this card]
Radeon HD 6550D 637
Radeon HD 7770 1932

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

[Globox_82]

Seem ign used the same rumors for both nexbox and ps4. The apu by itself is more powerful than RSX in the ps3. GeForce 7900 GT 623 - [RSX is a little lower performance than this card] Radeon HD 6550D 637 Radeon HD 7770 1932 http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

I still think this is just IGN trying to get hits. After all they are "the biggest"

[Violater]

Hello 2006

[brain_stew]

No, it's nothing like that, at all.

[WrikaWrek]

Why? I've said this for more than a year now, but next gen is going to be more about services and experiences you provide to the customer. First party studios and the user experience on the platform are the differentiators more than anything else. Software software software.

Well I think it puts MS in a big advantage against Sony.

[K.Jack]

No, it's nothing like that, at all.

Just sit back and watch the consoles burn man. You're going to be repeating yourself for the next 16 months.