[sixteen-bit]

Edit : Pretty glowing review I think. Im a little disappointed that the editor was so held up on the visual aspects of the game and didn't really touch on the tutorial mode at all or the various training mode options (hitbox viewer!)

Rarely do reviewers talk about stuff like that. Maybe in the even haunts or iPW crew does one for 1up, but usually that kind of stuff is glossed over.

[toastyToast]

From the tutorial video I saw where you gotta practice blocking mixups, I knew that there could be some satanic AI buried somewhere in the code probably an exaggeration, like Seth is hard lmao

Skullgirls: Where every stage in Arcade mode is an SNK boss

*throws money in the air*

[DiscoShark]

Rarely do reviewers talk about stuff like that. Maybe in the even haunts or iPW crew does one for 1up, but usually that kind of stuff is glossed over.

I can't say I was expecting anything regarding the training mode but to make absolutely no mention of the game's tutorial mode seems to be odd in a genre in which competent tutorials are so rare.

One review down though, let's see what some of the other outlets have to say. Anticipation for 1up, Shoryuken (though quite disappointed with their SFxT review as it read like pretty much every other outlet and focused more on the various modes rather than anything specific regarding its merit as a fighting game), Giantbomb, and Gametrailers.

[alstein]

Gotta remember most reviewers don't even understand how to throw hadokens.

This is why the ones that can such as Andy Park (is he even still around?) and Heidi Kemps/Zero-chan (she does pretty well at the Southtown VF tournies) are so valuable, even if they do steer their reviews towards the casual crowd.

[Kintaro]

Gotta remember most reviewers don't even understand how to throw hadokens.

So, basically...they're reviewing the games for the intended audience?

[V_Arnold]

Honestly, the usual reviewers are so dislocated from the concept of playing fighting games that they do not even know how to approach these games from a review standpoint.

Since the genre has its so-called revival (yeah, come at me, Capcom revival != FGC revival, etc), they keep rolling a dice and going with it - that is about it, with added stuff like how much "solo content" is there, how "cheap" the bosses are, what the "roster feels like" and what "graphical fidelity" does the game represent. That is it.

So, basically...they're reviewing the games for the intended audience?

This is a very ill concept to my ears. I keep reviewing FGC games to those that are at least willing to learn the basics, not those that buy COD and nothing else - because there is nothing that can make them not regret buying an FGC anyway if we are looking at their perspective.

I think that reviewers are partially responsible for an artificial bubble that protects their readers from playing a game that actually IS a game with solid fundamentals and real punishment. The bubble is placed for a variety of reasons, but ultimately, even if your main audience plays only shooters, sport games and racers, you should absolutely hype up games that can show a valid alternative (or a complementary experience) to those genres.

The first and biggest mistake one can make is to assume that a dumb/semi-casual/whatever audience will stay that way forever and get mad at sites if they give attention to lesser known genres/titles.

[CcrooK]

Or ya know, the game's difficulty could be pretty hard. But that's okay!

[zlatko]

;_; Well, to be fair, thats the closest since I did do a Cody alt when SF IV came out (which I cant find anywhere online, lovely)

I have it on my photobucket. It's the one where he's sitting, grinning, and has rocks being tossed up in his hand right? Had like a pink background too?

If that's the one I can link it for ya.

[SupaNaab]

Do you think reviewers are aware of the importance of a tutorial mode in fighting games? I wouldn't be surprised if most reviewers completely skip the tutorial in every shooter they play. Most players associate tutorials with mundane and obvious understandings. Move lists on the other hand are more universally understood to be vital to understanding how to win or even see what your favourite character can do.

[Kintaro]

Do you think reviewers are aware of the importance of a tutorial mode in fighting games? I wouldn't be surprised if most reviewers completely skip the tutorial in every shooter they play. Most players associate tutorials with mundane and obvious understandings. Move lists on the other hand are more universally understood to be vital to understanding how to win or even see what your favourite character can do.

This. Also, since the vast, vast, VAST majority of them suck...it doesn't help.

[Dartastic]

8.5. Nice!

[RS4-]

Hopefully the GGPO stuff isn't as random as it was in 3s and horrible as HDR.

[DiscoShark]

I'm kind of hesitant as I begin sifting through these review because I'm afraid one of them is going to end up posting a screenshot of the ever elusive super secret stage.

In any case ...
Review 2 rolls down the pipeline, Official Xbox Magazine!

http://www.oxmonline.com/skullgirls-...ce=twitterfeed



+ Unique character designs and stories; phenomenal HD hand-drawn animation and music.

+ A robust fighting engine that’s inviting to new players but has tournament-level depth.

– At only eight characters, the default roster seems very limited.

? Did Peacock just puff cigar smoke out of her eye…? Creepy!

Score :

8.0

And another review passes without any mention of that tutorial mode... or in this reviews case not even the mention of the lack of a movelist.

[Tizoc]

;_; Well, to be fair, thats the closest since I did do a Cody alt when SF IV came out (which I cant find anywhere online, lovely)

Heh I like your Cody av, though I'm surprised not many could figure the character out. To me the nose and hair gave it away lol.

[Nabs]

Hopefully the GGPO stuff isn't as random as it was in 3s and horrible as HDR.

It was designed from the ground up with GGPO in mind. I expect to hear great things from you guys when it comes out.

[Raging Spaniard]

I have it on my photobucket. It's the one where he's sitting, grinning, and has rocks being tossed up in his hand right? Had like a pink background too? If that's the one I can link it for ya.

Nah thats not it, its basically my regular avatar with the clothes switched out so its the prison garb, plus some facial scruff.

No biggie :P

Oh also, heres a better/cleaner version of that drawing

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...ngSpaniard.jpg

[DiscoShark]

The most competent criticism of the game has definitely come in the form of the recently released Gameinformer review.

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/sk...09/review.aspx

+ Creating a game accessible enough for casuals and more hardcore fighting game fans to enjoy
+Mention of awesome tutorial mode
+Mention of training mode that dives into the nitty gritty with its hitbox viewer
-No in game movelist and noting the divergence between trying to teach newer players the game while pointing out its omission
-Polarizing artstyle

Score :
8.0


That's how a review aimed at not necessarily the more hardcore crowd for a fighting game is made.

[Raging Spaniard]

The most competent criticism of the game has definitely come in the form of the recently released Gameinformer review. http://www.gameinformer.com/games/sk...09/review.aspx + Creating a game accessible enough for casuals and more hardcore fighting game fans to enjoy +Mention of awesome tutorial mode +Mention of training mode that dives into the nitty gritty with its hitbox viewer -No in game movelist and noting the divergence between trying to teach newer players the game while pointing out its omission -Polarizing artstyle Score : 8.0 That's how a review aimed at not necessarily the more hardcore crowd is made.

If the art style is polarizing, why is it a negative? Should be a neutral point.

[Skilletor]

Why are we spoil-tagging review excerpts?

[SolarPowered]

First reviews hitting the fan! IGN video review is up! (Haven't even clicked it yet!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1u038WaRX8 Edit : Pretty glowing review I think. Im a little disappointed that the editor was so held up on the visual aspects of the game and didn't really touch on the tutorial mode at all or the various training mode options (hitbox viewer!)

They probably spent all of twenty minutes with the game and moved on to the next big thing they are handling right now. I'm not complaining about the score though. The game should speak for itself once it is in our hands and we'll have lots of other good reviews coming in a few hours.

[Criminal Upper]

If the art style is polarizing, why is it a negative? Should be a neutral point.

I dunno, I guess they're just warning people who might not dig it?

It's gameinformer. For an 8.0, they must be expecting the game to sell alot.

[DiscoShark]

If the art style is polarizing, why is it a negative? Should be a neutral point.

I got the impression that the reviewer himself saw it as a negative aspect of the game.

"These characters are beautifully animated, but I noticed a Tecmo-like obsession with breasts and oversexualized characters. This may not be a new phenomenon in the genre, but many fighters in the all-female Skullgirls roster make Cammy look like a nun by comparison. Some animations are juvenile and unnecessary, such as the nurse that sticks a thermometer (that later explodes) between her breasts. For a game that seems intent on attracting serious fans of the fighting genre, it’s disappointing to see that so much of the art style seems focused on anatomy and fetishistic outfits. "


...but realizes that these things are sort of up for interpretation realizes that some of this stuff is up for interpretation with his blurb in the graphics department.

"It’s a beautifully animated game, but the oversexualized characters may cause some to roll their eyes"

[sersteven]

Perhaps they meant the artsyle is rather niche so it will turn off the more casual players (those who are also turned off by games such as Arcana Hearts/to an extent Melty Blood)

Also while no move list in-game isn't a problem for me or anyone with a laptop/smartphone/computer close to their screen, its a huge problem for your average player. Especially when this game isn't a sequel to a game that has a very established move list (excusable in titles like SF Alpha 3 on the PSP, etc) because its pretty easy to know Gief or Ryu's command normals and specials. But this game is brand spanking new.

Still day 1 for me, already have my $20 psn card.

[Raging Spaniard]

I got the impression that the reviewer himself saw it as a negative aspect of the game. "These characters are beautifully animated, but I noticed a Tecmo-like obsession with breasts and oversexualized characters. This may not be a new phenomenon in the genre, but many fighters in the all-female Skullgirls roster make Cammy look like a nun by comparison. Some animations are juvenile and unnecessary, such as the nurse that sticks a thermometer (that later explodes) between her breasts. For a game that seems intent on attracting serious fans of the fighting genre, it’s disappointing to see that so much of the art style seems focused on anatomy and fetishistic outfits. " ...but realizes that these things are sort of up for interpretation realizes that some of this stuff is up for interpretation with his blurb in the graphics department. "It’s a beautifully animated game, but the oversexualized characters may cause some to roll their eyes"

Its a re-tread of previous arguments, but Im so tired of those opinions

"This game features an extreme amount of bare chested men, in one instance Edmund Honda slaps his enlarged pectorial muscles in a celebratory manner, while the Hindu character Dhalsim is wearing nothing but diapers and ceremonial, ritualistic paintings, as if to celebrate his birthday outfit"

[alstein]

Hopefully the GGPO stuff isn't as random as it was in 3s and horrible as HDR.

To be fair, GGPO ST was borked also, and HDR didn't use "real" GGPO. ST is a very online-hostile game. Also, it ran noticably better on 360.

3S I blame the programmers.

[enzo_gt]

Perhaps they meant the artsyle is rather niche so it will turn off the more casual players (those who are also turned off by games such as Arcana Hearts/to an extent Melty Blood) Also while no move list in-game isn't a problem for me or anyone with a laptop/smartphone/computer close to their screen, its a huge problem for your average player. Especially when this game isn't a sequel to a game that has a very established move list (excusable in titles like SF Alpha 3 on the PSP, etc) because its pretty easy to know Gief or Ryu's command normals and specials. But this game is brand spanking new. Still day 1 for me, already have my $20 psn card.

Wait.. there's no move-list in the game? Why is something so fundamental, necessary and arguably simple left out? That should be pretty high on the priority list, something you would consider obvious. What's the rationale for it not being in?

[DiscoShark]

Wait.. there's no move-list in the game? Why is something so fundamental, necessary and arguably simple left out? That should be pretty high on the priority list, something you would consider obvious. What's the rationale for it not being in?

Basically that it was a non-gameplay device that wasn't as essential as other features for the game. It's primed to be in the first patch of the game though.

[sersteven]

Wait.. there's no move-list in the game? Why is something so fundamental, necessary and arguably simple left out? That should be pretty high on the priority list, something you would consider obvious. What's the rationale for it not being in?

I know, it's pretty crazy. I believe we're just finding out about this now right? The fact that the entire marketing of this game was it was amazing for beginners with its training mode and emphasizing on the basics is pretty much directly the opposite of not putting a move list in.

Here's hoping for a quick patch, seeing as the game looks structured for easy additions (just look at all those empty roster slots).

Also, do we have a confirmed color edit mode? Or just presets?

[darkblade77]

Wait.. there's no move-list in the game? Why is something so fundamental, necessary and arguably simple left out? That should be pretty high on the priority list, something you would consider obvious. What's the rationale for it not being in?

They prioritized other aspects of the game first when trying to get it out for release. A clear mistake, but it will be among the first things patched in.

AFAIK tutorial mode does go through each character's movelist, and they will be accessible on the website in PDF format in the meantime.

sersteven: Presets only, I think.

[LegatoB]

Wait.. there's no move-list in the game? Why is something so fundamental, necessary and arguably simple left out? That should be pretty high on the priority list, something you would consider obvious. What's the rationale for it not being in?

They were concentrating on getting the rest of the game working first, and when it came time to finalize for cert/release, it was either take an extra 2-3 weeks for all the localization & additional testing of the move list according to MS/Sony's specs, or go without for now and patch it in after launch.

[NEO0MJ]

Its a re-tread of previous arguments, but Im so tired of those opinions *snip*

No matter what you say you know this is a big problem for the game's image. And the point about Valentine is pretty fair.

[enzo_gt]

Basically that it was a non-gameplay device that wasn't as essential as other features for the game. It's primed to be in the first patch of the game though.

That's good to hear, but this can severely hurt it's appeal to the casual audience. These are the kinds of things I expect to be in first even before you consider additional content, though.

A ton of my "casual" fighting game friends head to move lists ASAP when they don't know what to do or want to learn what to do, even before they touch a training mode (some feel a training/tutorial mode "isn't for them" and they want to learn on-the-go). I can see it being a significant turn off to people who've only started playing fighting game's recently, or only play for story, etc.

[sersteven]

sersteven: Presets only, I think.

That's rather disappointing, the color schemes of the girls scream out easy editing, the remarkably high detail lets you see where every single color begins and ends, just from a glance at the game. I know that DLC is going to be their main revenue, but I was hoping they'd give us the ability to change colors and just have costumes to purchase later on.

Again, its a budget title and we don't even get stuff like color editors in AAA fighters.

[A Pretty Panda]

Do you think reviewers are aware of the importance of a tutorial mode in fighting games? I wouldn't be surprised if most reviewers completely skip the tutorial in every shooter they play. Most players associate tutorials with mundane and obvious understandings. Move lists on the other hand are more universally understood to be vital to understanding how to win or even see what your favourite character can do.

Jeff Gerstmann over at Giant Bomb has been talking about how fighting games don't teach you the reasoning around using moves for years. If he's reviewing it he'll surely dig into the tutorial mode.

[NEO0MJ]

That's rather disappointing, the color schemes of the girls scream out easy editing, the remarkably high detail lets you see where every single color begins and ends, just from a glance at the game.

They said they didn't want to give us a color customizer because we might misuse it. The nerve of them!

[Raging Spaniard]

No matter what you say you know this is a big problem for the game's image. And the point about Valentine is pretty fair.

Its a big problem that people are sexist and have double standards. Yes, I agree.

[enzo_gt]

Its a big problem that people are sexist and have double standards. Yes, I agree.

You fail to understand the issue. A niche image is a niche image regardless of whether you personally think it's good or not. It doesn't have much to do with oversexualization aside from there's explicit amounts of it in Skullgirls which compounds with the all-girl cast to fit it in it's niche which many will avoid off the bat. And it is a major issue for this game's image. I respect the devs for sticking with it, but they should already be prepared for a truncated breadth of appeal. It can produce a barrier before you even consider gameplay, which seems to be the sell of Skullgirls anyways. At some point you have to accept that others will not like it, and that it does not have to do with any sexism continuum you place people on.

[SolarPowered]

http://www.oxmonline.com/skullgirls-review

+ Unique character designs and stories; phenomenal HD hand-drawn animation and music.
+ A robust fighting engine that’s inviting to new players but has tournament-level depth.
– At only eight characters, the default roster seems very limited.
? Did Peacock just puff cigar smoke out of her eye…? Creepy!

8.0

Wait.. there's no move-list in the game? Why is something so fundamental, necessary and arguably simple left out? That should be pretty high on the priority list, something you would consider obvious. What's the rationale for it not being in?

It was not as important as making sure that the game is in working order. Hell, there was even a gamebreaking glitch with Ms.Fortune just a few weeks ago in France that was fairly easy to experience and they cleaned it up quick before it was sent for evaluation at MS and Sony. They focused on making sure we could play the game above all else. It does suck, but I can wait for the move lists.

Edit: Haven't you seen this?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=342

It's their solution until they have their patching schedule ready.

Here's hoping for a quick patch, seeing as the game looks structured for easy additions (just look at all those empty roster slots). Also, do we have a confirmed color edit mode? Or just presets?

Patches are pretty important for them, but extremely costly. I hope the patches are as meaty as they want them to be(replays, HD uploads, move lists, spectator and 8 man lobbies). Color editor is not happening with this game and it shouldn't be hard to see why. It's art direction already getting enough flak as it is. It has so much potential that I wouldn't mind it being paid DLC though...

They were concentrating on getting the rest of the game working first, and when it came time to finalize for cert/release, it was either take an extra 2-3 weeks for all the localization & additional testing of the move list according to MS/Sony's specs, or go without for now and patch it in after launch.

Yep...

That's good to hear, but this can severely hurt it's appeal to the casual audience. These are the kinds of things I expect to be in first even before you consider additional content, though. A ton of my "casual" fighting game friends head to move lists ASAP when they don't know what to do or want to learn what to do, even before they touch a training mode (some feel a training/tutorial mode "isn't for them" and they want to learn on-the-go). I can see it being a significant turn off to people who've only started playing fighting game's recently, or only play for story, etc.

It hurts the appeal even for folks like me. I spend a lot of time looking at movelists when I'm playing UMvC3 or BlazBlue. It's a pretty important feature. I'll settle for just a character or two since it'll make learning the game a bit easier.

That's rather disappointing, the color schemes of the girls scream out easy editing, the remarkably high detail lets you see where every single color begins and ends, just from a glance at the game. I know that DLC is going to be their main revenue, but I was hoping they'd give us the ability to change colors and just have costumes to purchase later on. Again, its a budget title and we don't even get stuff like color editors in AAA fighters.

The palette thread on SRK is amazing. There are so many references and ideas that it just leaves me in awe. I would have loved to see a custom color option, but the whole gender ratio reversal here could make things unnecessarily hairy.

[Raging Spaniard]

You fail to understand the issue. A niche image is a niche image regardless of whether you personally think it's good or not. It doesn't have much to do with oversexualization aside from there's explicit amounts of it in Skullgirls which compounds with the all-girl cast to fit it in it's niche which many will avoid off the bat. And it is a major issue for this game's image. I respect the devs for sticking with it, but they should already be prepared for a truncated breadth of appeal. It can produce a barrier before you even consider gameplay, which seems to be the sell of Skullgirls anyways. At some point you have to accept that others will not like it, and that it does not have to do with any sexism continuum you place people on.

Sorry, I think Im giving off the wrong idea.

I absolutely understand why this happens, and I absolutely hate it.

[sixteen-bit]

Yeah, GGPO is a real concern. Hope it's implemented better than shitty 3S:OE

[V_Arnold]

Yeah, GGPO is a real concern. Hope it's implemented better than shitty 3S:OE

Uhm...no, it should not be a "concern". One bad example cannot make a good system look like a concern, imho.

[Volcynika]

Why are we spoil-tagging review excerpts?

Not sure why the scores or excerpts are tagged, but it sure is not-fun reading them on a phone.

[zlatko]

Uhm...no, it should not be a "concern". One bad example cannot make a good system look like a concern, imho.

Actually, in this case, I agree with dementia.

Isn't the only other console game using GGPO like Final Fight or some shit?

We all know GGPO works fine for PC, but this game is not on PC right now, so seeing as the one fighter with GGPO on consoles didn't hit it out of the park, then yes we should be concerned if the next one having it as an offering for its net code can pull it off.

It's my concern with this game. I see they added a lot more robust features with the GGPO put into SkullGirls, but I'm still sitting on the fence from a day one buy tomorrow, until I read impressions here on GAF about the net code.

[Deps]

3SOE GGPO was flawed, but for me it still ran better than SF4/SFxT. Most (not all) of the people who had trouble with it had awful connections or didn't know how to adjust it

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I think GGPO ON CONSOLE is a concern as well. OE was not that great (I think Sf4 is better than that).

We shall see in the coming weeks though.

[SolarPowered]

3SOE GGPO was flawed, but for me it still ran better than SF4/SFxT. Most (not all) of the people who had trouble with it had awful connections or didn't know how to adjust it

The shit matchmaking and no ability to tweak the delay on lobbies hurt it most. It was still not a very good implementation. My cousin lives less than five miles away from me and we always had a yellow/orange connection until I upgraded my internet. We previously had perfect connections on all other fighters we played except for MvC3.

[Beats]

Doesn't Blazblue use GGPO? It was pretty good from my experience.

No, BB uses something cooked by Arc. Maybe they should license it.

I see. Nevermind then.

[NEO0MJ]

Doesn't Blazblue use GGPO? It was pretty good from my experience.

No, BB uses something cooked by Arc. Maybe they should license it.

[darkblade77]

Blazblue uses variable input delay, like SF4.

[LegatoB]

Blazblue uses variable input delay, like SF4.

And Blazblue also uses extremely generous hitstun and input buffers. At least half of the perceived quality of BB's netcode is simply the way the game's designed.