[Steaks]

Maybe. I dunno. I haven't thought about it quite that much. I think we're starting to get into nebulous, subjective game design land now - I mean, what's "better"? How does someone qualify that, objectively? Some people like Marvel's pace, after all. I'm not saying what you said about pace vs speed is wrong, but this is the kind of low level design that's impossible to nail down objectively. And I don't disagree that it does look better, but it's hard to judge, and I think it's fair to say that, broadly, generically, Skullgirls looks a lot slower than Marvel. For the better. Subjectively speaking. Yeah.

Well better in that post is my subjective opinion, I think the pace is slower and we can both agree that's a good thing :)

[Dachande]

^^^ Yep. Basically, SKULLGIRLS WOOOOO

1) A slightly larger roster of usable characters - Magneto, Sentinel, Storm, Psylocke, Doom, Cable, Captain Commando as your top tier, then Iron Man, Tron, Juggernaut, Cyclops, maybe one or two others. Maybe twice this roster size as the absolute maximum - but MSP and MSS are extremely dominant.

The thing is, this isn't really a plus if you don't like or play any of those characters, as I don't. So for me, Marvel 2 is basically unplayable on a proper competitive level or against anyone who knows what they're doing.

[The Grim Heaper]

Even though I'm usually terrible at new fighters, I'm ready to rock out with Valentine and Filia. Can't wait for Wednesday to come~!

[sixteen-bit]

No offense mate, but looking at your current avatar...

A poster with propensity toward japanese comic art is not a fan of western comic art, makes sense.

[NEO0MJ]

I pointed this out a long time ago in another thread but... all of the "sexualized" characters in SG (so far) are freaks. That they're "babes" seems almost satirical or dark. Parasoul, the most stately and serious female, seems the least "sexualized".

Hey, people dig freaky chicks and you know that. The only truly grotesque characters are Painwheel and Double, only if you find those two hot would I freak out.

Also, some of the rationalizations in the FG community ever since the game appeared can't help but sound suspect. Many people tried the tactic of "why would you be weird by making a cast all girls instead of guys". Nothing to do with sexualization mind you... just the basic concept "it has too many females". Gender bias showing much? People who play games full of electric mutants and chi throwing demon lords suddenly being red faced by "weirdness" because girls are involved? Hmm...

The only reason I'm not too happy with the all female cast is that I know my lil' bros will drive me crazy with their stupid jokes for playing a girly game.

[Riposte]

A poster with propensity toward japanese comic art is not a fan of western comic art, makes sense.

I think that's western. Also might be Hit Girl from Kickass

[Kintaro]

Hell, whenever anyone calls out Skullgirls, just point them at Mai. But KOF gets slack!

Mai tends to get a pass. She has been around since 1992. That is older then a ton of people on this foru. When you've been around for 20 years, you get a pass. That's all there is to it.

[Seraphinianus]

I do not like the art at all, but I can't not support this effort and the game looks fun. day 1!

He put in more time testing and getting player feedback than all the multimillion dollar companies. respect!

[Skilletor]

I don't like the way it looks, either. But I'm going to try it out.

If it has good online, it'll be fun to play with friends at least.

[SolarPowered]

Yeah, I'm not buying this. The moment someone on some stream does some sick shit on a stream everyone is watchng with a 3 man team, they will switch in heartbeat. =) FGC are creatures of the moment.

The game has been embraced by players from all walks of fighting games in the community. Not everyone plays the most simple and strong characters. Folks like Dacid from the BlazBlue scene have made strong showings with more daunting characters like Painwheel and there are lots of folks who are using Ms.Fortune right now even though she'll probably take the longest to crack open.

From an aesthetic perspective the only problem I have with the game is I don't like how the hits look, feel and sound. That's probably my biggest superficial barrier with getting into this game. Really curious how a scene develops around this game more than anything. As it's not from a company with an established fanbase(Capcom players play new capcom. ArcSys play new ArcSys) it'll be interesting to see what communities it draws its playerbase from.

It draws it's playerbase from everywhere. Shoot, one of it's recent showings at NCI(Poverty/Anime/Visual novels community) last month actually had the most viewers in the entire tournament even though it was more of a side event compared to GG and it's gotten half a dozen appearances on WNF. Lots of folks from all kinds of scenes in Japan will probably flock to this game too.

Also, I like the sound effects. They remind me of Smash 64 and Melee. Those were rough ass sound effects, dog.

[Dizzy-4U]

Ratio 3 Cerebella, so many rage messages.

[Ravidrath]

Skullgirls basically has The Bayonetta Syndrome. Presentation wise, it's supposed to be satirical and OTT period, but depending on how you read into it, your mileage may vary.

Yeah, I feel like the game's tone comes from very much the same place Bayonetta's does, so it's confusing to me that people react completely differently to the two games.

We'll see what people think of the story mode, but I tried to put some emotional depth into it, too.

[Slamtastic]

I will purchase this game as a show of support for American made fighting games, even if "like Marvel" would usually be nan instant turn off.

[Ace Harding]

It draws it's playerbase from everywhere. Shoot, one of it's recent showings at NCI(Poverty/Anime/Visual novels community) last month actually had the most viewers in the entire tournament even though it was more of a side event compared to GG and it's gotten half a dozen appearances on WNF. Lots of folks from all kinds of scenes in Japan will probably flock to this game too.

I'm looking forward to this game, but not super in-tune with the FGC. What does the bolded mean? People who are into poverty, anime, and visual novels? That seems like a pretty niche community.

[NEO0MJ]

Yeah, I feel like the game's tone comes from very much the same place Bayonetta's does, so it's confusing to me that people react completely differently to the two games.

Well...Bayonetta was developed by a group of some of the biggest most well known VG stars with a history of great games behind them so people were willing to let anything slide for them.
Plus FG fans are some of the most hard headed and fanboyish among all VG genres.

[Hitokage]

I'll definitely be getting this...

...but will I even have time to play it? SO MANY GOOD FIGHTING GAMES

[Kai Dracon]

Yeah, I feel like the game's tone comes from very much the same place Bayonetta's does, so it's confusing to me that people react completely differently to the two games. We'll see what people think of the story mode, but I tried to put some emotional depth into it, too.

It's difficult to say whether satire that walks a thin line "fails" when someone doesn't get the joke, or whether its their fault for being dense about it.

Bayonetta is probably the best comparison, aye. I mean, compared to Skullgirls, Bayo practically flashes neon signs declaring "DAT'S THE JOKE". But you still got a ton of people flying off the handle about its "smut" or sexism, or immaturity, etc.

It could be some folks have zero tolerance for certain kinds of satire.

I know people who get pissed off at episodes of Family Guy because their immediate reaction to say, a giggidy joke taking the piss out of Quagmire and male pigs, is to take it as a straight faced negative statement about women.

[sixteen-bit]

I'll definitely be getting this... ...but will I even have time to play it? SO MANY GOOD FIGHTING GAMES

I'm gonna try to go hard in this until Final Showdown drops. Then everything else is secondary.

[Kai Dracon]

I'll definitely be getting this... ...but will I even have time to play it? SO MANY GOOD FIGHTING GAMES

Maybe it's a good thing that it's starting with a small cast of characters?

[Rorshock520]

So what characters are you guys thinking of trying?

I planned on sticking to a Cerebella/Parasoul team, but the more I rewatch footage of Valentine, the more I want to play her!

[Solune]

Maybe it's a good thing that it's starting with a small cast of characters?

A smaller cast doesn't mean anything when games play completely different from each other.

[SousedLouse]

I'm looking forward to this game, but not super in-tune with the FGC. What does the bolded mean? People who are into poverty, anime, and visual novels? That seems like a pretty niche community.

Poverty = inexpensive, low budget and/or extremely loose in terms of gameplay or balance. The type of fighting game which eventually found its way into places like the back of a convenience store or the gameway of a lowkey amusement park, rather than advertised as a marquee attraction at the local arcade. I think it's called 'poverty' because it cost less to play than other games; either you got more credits per coin for the arcade versions, or the home version was cheaper.

Stuff like Breakers Revenge, X-Men vs Street Fighter and Jackie Chan: Fists of Fire come to mind.

Anime = Stuff that looks like, well, anime. Guilty Gear, Melty Blood, Blazblue, stuff like that. Or games that are based on anime properties, like Jojo's Bizarre Adventures, Fate Unlimited Codes, etc.

Visual Novels = Talking heads, basically. You know how a lot of fighting game story modes will have a stock background, cropped portraits of the characters on each side of the screen and a dialogue box at the bottom of the screen? It's like that.

There's actually a lot of overlap because most poverty games are either based on anime or share a lot of aesthetics with those games, and they usually have story modes which have scenes that are styled like visual novels. So a lot of people end up playing games with these qualities because of the overlap.

[Beats]

Hey Solar, do you think you can add me to the PSN list in the online post? I think you might have missed me on the second page. :)

Beats00 | QC, Canada | EST

I don't know if there are tweets, Floe's also a fan, as is Fanatiq.

I was watching Fanatiq commentate a bunch of matches on one stream and he seems pretty hyped for it. Also according to this post/thread on SRK (link) I think Maximilian might be doing videos for it judging from the viewer responses to one of his videos. But I'm not entirely sure..

[Ravidrath]

I'm looking forward to this game, but not super in-tune with the FGC. What does the bolded mean? People who are into poverty, anime, and visual novels? That seems like a pretty niche community.

As near as I can tell, "poverty" is the term used for the fighting game scene for any game that isn't hugely popular (i.e. the latest Capcom game) and doesn't have any big money riding on it.

I think Maximilian might be doing videos for it judging from the responses to one of his videos. But I'm not entirely sure..

Huh, cool.

I reached out to him not too long ago about having him come play the game at the office, but never got a response.

Also going to try and get Desk a download code so he can make some combo videos.

[Kai Dracon]

A smaller cast doesn't mean anything when games play completely different from each other.

I'm speaking in terms of deciding what character to focus on, and in learning matchups.

[Ace Harding]

Explanation

Ah, makes sense. Thank you. I probably could have figured that out if I thought about it...

[Raging Spaniard]

I think Im gonna go with Valentine as my only character for a while. I like fast characters that can move around the screen ... once I feel comfortable enough I'll see if a 2 person team works for me.

[joe2187]

Also going to try and get Desk a download code so he can make some combo videos.

yes, this please. I want to see if he can break this game!

[GatorBait]

I'm quoting both of this as they remind me of how I actually came around on the art direction and characters. My initial reaction was: can't tell if it's any good, need to see animation. My next reaction was: kind of looks Japanese girly, I'm not offended by that but don't particularly like it either. My final reaction was: hey, suddenly I really like it. What did it for me is that I realized the characters and art style are far, far more towards gothic than the lazy "loli" label that keeps getting pasted on the game. I pointed this out a long time ago in another thread but... all of the "sexualized" characters in SG (so far) are freaks. That they're "babes" seems almost satirical or dark. Parasoul, the most stately and serious female, seems the least "sexualized". But everyone else is like something out of an Addams family reunion. Then I got the concept and the characters grew on me. Now I think they're pretty cool and the setting/premise of the fiction around the game is actually pretty unique and well done. I just value variety in a roster (both gameplay-wise and aesthetically). It's difficult to talk about this angle actually, because one can easily get accused of telling other people their taste is "wrong". Personally, I think maybe some (maybe a lot of) people honestly don't get what Skullgirls is going for, either because they're not interested in considering it past a thin slice or they have been exposed to way too many memes and stereotypes of games with female characters. Showing SG to a lot of people is like showing people anime, any anime, and having their eyes glaze over as they snort "lol stupid Naruto shit". Also, some of the rationalizations in the FG community ever since the game appeared can't help but sound suspect. Many people tried the tactic of "why would you be weird by making a cast all girls instead of guys". Nothing to do with sexualization mind you... just the basic concept "it has too many females". Gender bias showing much? People who play games full of electric mutants and chi throwing demon lords suddenly being red faced by "weirdness" because girls are involved? Hmm...

The interesting thing about my personal criticism is that I actually really like a lot of the character designs from an individual standpoint. It's just that when I view all of them together in an eight-character roster, I can't help but hope that there is more variety if they are going to shoot for a much larger final roster. I'd express a similar sentiment if it was an male cast. I just value variety in a FG roster (both in terms of gameplay and aesthetics), and I hope if SkullGirls continues to get updates that Reverge Labs doesn't unnecessarily constrain themselves to a subsection of aesthetic archetypes.

Honestly, I know these are strong words considering the game is not even out yet, but I could see SkullGirls becoming one of, if not my favorite fighting game if they end up having enough success to expand the roster in a continuously varied way.

[Ravidrath]

yes, this please. I want to see if he can break this game!

Mike does too, I assure you!

Stuff

Hmm.

We'll see how deep we can actually get into them, but all the likely DLC characters for this installment are in the game now in one form or another.

SPECULATION GO

[Enice]

[Solune]

I'm speaking in terms of deciding what character to focus on, and in learning matchups.

Despite the smaller cast, you will still most likely be inclined to learn more than one character. In a game like this where team synergy will be important though not necessarily essential like in Marvel with ratios present, that means potentially learning 2 or 3 characters including BnBs and character properties.

In short, a smaller cast doesn't mean learning the game faster!

[Item Box]

Filia/Peacock all day.
XBL: Spamage | US East (NY)

Also going to try and get Desk a download code so he can make some combo videos.

Broken already? :P

[sephi22]

I must be the only one who doesn't get the the 'pervertism' complaints.
These characters aren't any worse than Morrigan and Felicia. The only character who's close to being in the same league is Valentine

[darkblade77]

Mike does too, I assure you! Hmm. We'll see how deep we can actually get into them, but all the likely DLC characters for this installment are in the game now in one form or another. SPECULATION GO

On-data-DLC?!?! Reverge betrayalton! ;_;

I'm interested in Painwheel, although I don't know if I can put in enough time to make her work properly. Valentine also looks appealing, as does Double and Parasoul.

[NEO0MJ]

yes, this please. I want to see if he can break this game!

I'm just hoping he finds something crazy with double's level 5 super.

[Kintaro]

Any dive kicks? If so, we're narrowed down what characters Justin will use for awhile.

[Dartastic]

We'll see how deep we can actually get into them, but all the likely DLC characters for this installment are in the game now in one form or another. SPECULATION GO

THEY'RE ALL ALREADY FINISHED AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BUY UNLOCK CODES FOR THEM AREN'T WE. ;)

...I kid, I kid. I assume they're all in the story mode, or in stuff like Double's super.

[Kai Dracon]

I must be the only one who doesn't get the the 'pervertism' complaints. These characters aren't any worse than Morrigan and Felicia. The only character who's close to being in the same league is Valentine

"Normal is the pie your mother fed you at age 12."

The Capcom characters have been around for ever and are accepted.

Plus, the Capcom games have "plausible deniability" because there's like Guile or Dimetri in them to look manly or something, ha ha.

That SG is "all girls", not just "some sexy girls" seems to make some people more uncomfortable due to fears of being associated with things deemed Bad, like Japanese games people call fetish material.

Really, the same thing happened to Dead or Alive. DoA gets labeled softcore porn not just because of booby women, but because there are too many booby women. Not enough men in the cast, so the reasoning seems to go, to prevent it from being just a fap fest.

[SousedLouse]

Ah, makes sense. Thank you. I probably could have figured that out if I thought about it...

You're welcome! Always glad to help.

Huh, cool. I reached out to him not too long ago about having him come play the game at the office, but never got a response. Also going to try and get Desk a download code so he can make some combo videos.

:0
YES. Yes to all of this.

The interesting thing about my criticism is that I actually really like a lot of the character designs from an individual standpoint. It's just that when I view all of them together in an eight-character roster, I can't help but hope that there is more variety if they are going to shoot for a much larger final roster. I'd express a similar sentiment if it was an male cast. I just value variety in a FG roster (both in terms of gameplay and aesthetics), and I hope if SkullGirls continues to get updates that Reverge Labs doesn't unnecessarily constrain themselves to a subsection of aesthetic archetypes. Honestly, I know these are strong words considering the game is not even out yet, but I could see SkullGirls becoming one of, if not my favorite fighting game if they end up having enough success to expand the roster in a continuously varied way.

I kind of feel the same way; I don't expect the roster to become much bigger, but if new characters are added I'd hope that they are as wild as the stuff in the concept art or the background character in the stages.

Edit:

Hmm. We'll see how deep we can actually get into them, but all the likely DLC characters for this installment are in the game now in one form or another. SPECULATION GO

Oh, I guess we're deep enough in the OT to go this way...
Brain Drain and Myrine, please!

[TheFightingFish]

I'll definitely be getting this... ...but will I even have time to play it? SO MANY GOOD FIGHTING GAMES

It's kinda the curse of indie multiplayer games. With say platformers you can always go play Super Meat Boy or VVVVV after you put in your 20 hours to beat SMG or Rayman: Origins. But putting in time for Skullgirls is time that could be spent with say VF5:FS, SFxT, SCV or TTT2 to list some 2012 titles. Just harder to break in to a genre with games that you are supposed to keep playing and improving at.

[Ravidrath]

Since some people have been wondering about the PDF Character Guides we're going to release, figured I'd give you a sample:

On-data-DLC?!?! Reverge betrayalton! ;_;

No, I mean that they are all in backgrounds, cinematics, supers, etc.

[joe2187]

Perfect. Anywhere with a collection of GIFs for the game?

This guy at gamespot, made a pretty awesome OT with tons of GIFs and info on the game, Too bad he posted it on Gamespot http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic...411--psn---410

I am NOT looking forward to Double fanart by the pervs, or whatever subgbroup thinks inside out bodies are hot.

[Kai Dracon]

The interesting thing about my personal criticism is that I actually really like a lot of the character designs from an individual standpoint. It's just that when I view all of them together in an eight-character roster, I can't help but hope that there is more variety if they are going to shoot for a much larger final roster. I'd express a similar sentiment if it was an male cast. I just value variety in a FG roster (both in terms of gameplay and aesthetics), and I hope if SkullGirls continues to get updates that Reverge Labs doesn't unnecessarily constrain themselves to a subsection of aesthetic archetypes. Honestly, I know these are strong words considering the game is not even out yet, but I could see SkullGirls becoming one of, if not my favorite fighting game if they end up having enough success to expand the roster in a continuously varied way.

Actually, here's an admission: this may seem completely inane, but I felt it was a bit of a goof-up in terms of roster balance that a small cast has two "head girls" who read much like each other at a glance. I.e. the fact that Filia and Cerebella each have "head monsters" that act like arms.

Fun fact: when the game was first shown with them, somebody I know thought the theme of the game was going to be "girls fighting with monster hats", hence "skullgirls". Ha ha... heh.

However, I really, really want the guy with the tank on his arm in the game.

I mean come on. He has a tank. On his arm.

[darkblade77]

No, I mean that they are all in backgrounds, cinematics, supers, etc.

Thanks for the clarification; was trying to just make a joke, but I guess that could be taken literally too easily. :x

Edit: Oh wow that PDF preview didn't load the first time I looked at the page. Niiice.

[SousedLouse]

Actually, here's an admission: this may seem completely inane, but I felt it was a bit of a goof-up in terms of roster balance that a small cast has two "head girls" who read much like each other at a glance. I.e. the fact that Filia and Cerebella each have "head monsters" that act like arms. Fun fact: when the game was first shown with them, somebody I know thought the theme of the game was going to be "girls fighting with monster hats", hence "skullgirls". Ha ha... heh.

I thought of that too, actually. I thought the game would be pretty boring if every character was just a girl with a parasite in her brain, so I'm glad I was wrong.

However, I really, really want the guy with the tank on his arm in the game. I mean come on. He has a tank. On his arm.

Yes, yes he does.

[Ravidrath]

Actually, here's an admission: this may seem completely inane, but I felt it was a bit of a goof-up in terms of roster balance that a small cast has two "head girls" who read much like each other at a glance. I.e. the fact that Filia and Cerebella each have "head monsters" that act like arms. Fun fact: when the game was first shown with them, somebody I know thought the theme of the game was going to be "girls fighting with monster hats", hence "skullgirls". Ha ha... heh. However, I really, really want the guy with the tank on his arm in the game. I mean come on. He has a tank. On his arm.

A lot of people thought that, and it was really just a coincidence that those were the first two characters we developed. I guess Ms. Fortune and Squigly are both "head girls," too...? But there aren't any others that fit that description in the ultra-extended future roster I'm looking at.

I'll be very curious if people's opinions about the roster actually change once/if we do get around to adding male characters. The DLC character plan is still very fluid, but currently the thinking is that they'd be further down the line.

[sephi22]

"Normal is the pie your mother fed you at age 12." The Capcom characters have been around for ever and are accepted. Plus, the Capcom games have "plausible deniability" because there's like Guile or Dimetri in them to look manly or something, ha ha. That SG is "all girls", not just "some sexy girls" seems to make some people more uncomfortable due to fears of being associated with things deemed Bad, like Japanese games people call fetish material. Really, the same thing happened to Dead or Alive. DoA gets labeled softcore porn not just because of booby women, but because there are too many booby women. Not enough men in the cast, so the reasoning seems to go, to prevent it from being just a fap fest.

That's a nice way to put it. Also never heard this expression before. Its neat

[galvatron]

Actually, here's an admission: this may seem completely inane, but I felt it was a bit of a goof-up in terms of roster balance that a small cast has two "head girls" who read much like each other at a glance. I.e. the fact that Filia and Cerebella each have "head monsters" that act like arms. Fun fact: when the game was first shown with them, somebody I know thought the theme of the game was going to be "girls fighting with monster hats", hence "skullgirls". Ha ha... heh. However, I really, really want the guy with the tank on his arm in the game. I mean come on. He has a tank. On his arm.

Honestly, I thought the same thing at first about the hat gimmick...that was over a year ago, though.

Also, Tank guy's literal handlebar mustache has made me an instant fan.

Ravidrath: Really like the PDF layout.

[ponpo]

Time to get in the lab with the only version I have access to. Delicious old PC versions.