[Bay Maximus]

Are you insinuating that no one with a gun has ever once defended themselves (or others) from criminals with a reasonable use of force? The implication that, if there was no stand your ground law, that it is the duty of the victim to flee from the danger rather than meet it with like force, is absurd.

Do you think that it is illegal to defend yourself in states without SYG laws? Do you think it was illegal to defend yourself in Florida before the SYG law was enacted?

[Mammoth Jones]

That law needs to be gone after this case regardless of whether it applies or not.

The law shouldn't be removed. It was created for a reason. But it *definitely* needs to be vetted and it should be refined as to what it should and shouldn't apply to.

In its current form its a very broad, very open to interpretation type of law. I believe it was intended for situations where someone is met with force or threat of force through no fault of their own that they wouldn't be under any obligation to retreat. Such as a car jacking or mugging.

It wasn't intended for wanna-be-cops to be vigilantes then use it as their defense when they kill a kid carrying skittles and tea

[Kettch]

You really think Zimmerman was the one yelling for help?

He wants Zimmerman to be found innocent, so...probably?

[TommyT]

Agreed. that law makes no sense whatsoever.

Are you talking about in Florida specifically? I ask because you say it makes no sense, and if you read the law it makes quite a bit of sense.

Now, while Devo does make a good point in that it often protects people that it "shouldn't", the same could be said about many other laws. All created with good intent, but are being used/applied possibly too often and not to their original creators' intent.

edit: Or maybe you mean it doesn't make any sense to you.

[BobLoblaw]

Well, did they ever screen the calls to see if Trayvon's voice matched? I wouldn't trust this technology, kind of like I wouldn't trust a lie detector test result.

Well, two audio experts said it wasn't Zimmerman. Trayvons's mom and cousin said it was Trayvon's voice. Every witness that night said it sounded like a child's or young man's voice. What conclusion would you draw?

[Korey]

Her point about a fair and impartial jury is a good one...gonna be tough now

[Enron]

Yeah, you don't take this case and be this high profile without being overly confident of your chances

She didn't "take" this case. She is a state prosecutor and was assigned it.

[Redux]

Remember, he killed a child which is totally different & results in MUCH longer prison sentences. Even manslaughter of a child is like 30 years in most states.

Is 17 a child to you?

[elrechazado]

Atheist gaf attack quick - the public official started her meetings with a prayer!!!1

[Ploid 3.0]

Police are getting glowing reviews. They can rest easy.

[Ulairi]

"Upstanding citizens" lol. Let's be honest, who gets shielded and assume they're protected by these laws? Trigger happy assholes.

No. SYG has nothing to do with this. If Mr. Zimmerman followed the instructions of the officer on the phone and stayed put, he would not have been arrested and a boy would still be alive.

[Cubsfan23]

Is 17 a child to you?

when they die, yes

[gcubed]

She didn't "take" this case. She is a state prosecutor and was assigned it.

By "take" I mean bring charges

[FuturusX]

It's an oldie...but a goodie.

[UnluckyKate]

Consensus about whether Second Degree Murder was the right call? I'd say yes, based on the series of events that are generally presumed to have happened. He followed a kid for no good reason, probably picked a fight with him, got his ass beat, and then potentially shot him while he cried for help. It's not first degree murder, but it's definitely second degree. I just hope there is evidence to support it.

Yeah I though so. But I don't hear that much voice supporting the guy. Loud minority or loud defense for the kid ? Are people actually believe he act in legitimate self defense ? What are the proof ?

[ezrarh]

Atheist gaf attack quick - the public official started her meetings with a prayer!!!1

If God existed, he wouldn't have let something like this happen.

[soundahfekz]

Is 17 a child to you?

17 is a minor and thus a child. Come on man

[Korey]

Yeah I though so. But I don't hear that much voice supporting the guy. Loud minority or loud defense for the kid ? Are people actually believe he act in legitimate self defense ? What are the proof ?

Not many people believe that. Only a few devil advocate/contrarians, and always one at a time.

GREAT press conference. Very informative and easy to understand.

[elrechazado]

Yeah I though so. But I don't hear that much voice supporting the guy. Loud minority or loud defense for the kid ? Are people actually believe he act in legitimate self defense ? What are the proof ?

If only there were some regular process or procedure wherein evidence could be presented in front of a decision maker where such things could be determined!


;)

[oatmeal]

Prosecutor did well there.

Definitely seems more interested in the facts than giving the media what they want.

[Ulairi]

Is 17 a child to you?

yes. 17 means you're a child.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Is 17 a child to you?

He's not talking about something subjective. In the eyes of the law 17 is a child. It doesn't matter what a child is to him or to you.

[LordCanti]

Yeah I though so. But I don't hear that much voice supporting the guy. Loud minority or loud defense for the kid ? Are people actually believe he act in legitimate self defense ? What are the proof ?

I'm confused. I was saying that he wasn't acting in self defense. He picked a fight with a kid, lost that fight, and then decided that it was okay to shoot the person he'd stalked and assaulted.

As for the proof, we don't know yet.

[Angry Fork]

Atheist gaf attack quick - the public official started her meetings with a prayer!!!1

I groaned when I heard that but it's not something I would bring up because it's petty/pointless. If it makes them feel better I'm okay with it despite my belief that it's stupid.

[Allard]

Are you insinuating that no one with a gun has ever once defended themselves (or others) from criminals with a reasonable use of force? The implication that, if there was no stand your ground law, that it is the duty of the victim to flee from the danger rather than meet it with like force, is absurd.

You don't know what standard defense law means then do you? Standard defense laws stipulate you have to 'attempt' to flee but if you feel it to be impossible then it becomes the exception. What stand your ground law does is basically give you the right to kill someone just because you "think" they will harm you and not if they pose a viable threat to your life. That is unbelievably absurd, it basically makes everyone a cop and only the survivor gets any say. In fact the reason it took so damn long for this case to be at this place in time is BECAUSE of Stand your ground specifically says you can't readily arrest someone once they claim self-defense unless you can prove reasonable doubt otherwise.

[Timedog]

yooooo unghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[ClovingWestbrook]

That law needs to be gone after this case regardless of whether it applies or not.

I don't see a problem with the intent of the law but rather that it's going to be used and abused. People should have a right to defend themselves at whatever cost WHEN their life or the lives of their loved ones are in jeopardy. Of course, as seen in this case, it's quite easy to claim your life was in jeopardy when the only witness to what happened is dead.

[bob_arctor]

Prosecutor did well there. Definitely seems more interested in the facts than giving the media what they want.

Yeah, Zimmerman's fucked.

[Pandaman]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/JLv9d.gif[IMG]

[IMG]http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae338/aylinato/Nathan-Fillion-reaction-gif.gif[IMG]

You people are savages, zimmerman being innocent is the best case scenario. We should hope he is, we should hope that boys death was a tragic accident and not a senseless murder.

bloodlust is the enemy of justice, not an enabler of it. If he is guilty that's what the trial is for, we don't need people building up an illusion that justice for Trayvon is synonymous with zimmermans punishment. It might be, but its not on us to decide that.

[RyanDG]

Well, two audio experts said it wasn't Zimmerman. Trayvons's mom and cousin said it was Trayvon's voice. Every witness that night said it sounded like a child's or young man's voice. What conclusion would you draw?

I would definitely agree with this if I hadn't listened to Zimmerman's voice beforehand. The voice yelling for help does sound younger-ish, however, Zimmerman's voice sounds younger in intonation. That's not to say that I disagree with the experts or Trayvon's mom/cousin, but it was just really surprising to me that the match wasn't made there based on simply listening to the audio. However, it could also be colored by the fact that I haven't heard a sample of Trayvon's voice to make a similarly modeled comparison.

With that said, regardless of anything else, Zimmerman's following of Trayvon (enough so to actually alarm Trayvon to the point of addressing it with someone he was talking on the phone with) is enough to tell me that Zimmerman has culpability in the outcomes of the evening... Even if Trayvon swung first. I just don't know to what degree that legal culpability really is under Florida laws. But we'll find out soon enough.

[MThanded]

I am glad this is going to trial.

Lets see whats going on with the facts.

[Devolution]

Al Sharpton on the podium.

[oatmeal]

Yeah, Zimmerman's fucked.

Well they waited until they believed they had enough to support charging him. So it's likely.

[Timedog]

Well, did they ever screen the calls to see if Trayvon's voice matched? I wouldn't trust this technology, kind of like I wouldn't trust a lie detector test result.

That's because you have zero understanding of how the technology works or how the human body makes vocal sound. Now if you say you wouldn't trust it given the low quality of the 911 tape, that's a different argument.

[ZZMitch]

2nd Degree Murder seems like the appropriate charge. We shall see if the prosecution has enough to convict. Should be an interesting trial.

[TommyT]

Al Sharpton on the podium.

herewegojoker.gif

[whatbrown]

Do most of you really think Zimmerman is a monster and a murderer? Do you think he planned to kill Trayvon that day when he decided to follow him?

Some of you guys act like this is a case of premeditated murder against an unarmed child for no reason. It is not even close. There is a huge difference!

Whether his life was ever in danger is certainly debatable (hence the charge). I can't believe that any of you actually believe he ''had it out'' for Trayvon and did this for any other reason than what he felt like was self defense.

I don't know if the law will agree that it was self defense, but in my opinion, Zimmerman certainly felt that way at the time and didn't have the luxury of analyzing every thing to the millionth degree like all of you do.

I am not trying to defend Zimmerman's actions, but I am trying to put myself in his shoes at this point, and I truly feel bad for him. In my opinion, he is clearly not a racist or a murderer, but simply someone who may or may not have made some bad decisions and judgment calls that led to the unforunate death of a 17 year old ''child''.

None of us know exactly what happened in the minutes that led up to Trayvon's death, but most of you seem pretty sure of yourselves about what happened and why it happened and you seem hell-bent on prosecuting Zimmerman long before all the facts are known and the court of law has rendered a verdict.

[antonz]

Imagine one of the first motions by the defense will be to change location of trial. Then it will go on for months and months of jury selection because the jury pool is beyond contaminated

[demigod]

Is 17 a child to you?

Someone tag this man!

The problem with SYG isn't the law itself, it's when the stupid police department lets someone walk away claiming self defense after stalking another person.

[bob_arctor]

Al Sharpton on the podium.

I bet he does just fine.

[FuturusX]

You people are savages, zimmerman being innocent is the best case scenario. We should hope he is, we should hope that boys death was a tragic accident and not a senseless murder. bloodlust is the enemy of justice, not an enabler of it. If he is guilty that's what the trial is for, we don't need people building up an illusion that justice for Trayvon is synonymous with zimmermans punishment. It might be, but its not on us to decide that.

Except Zimmeran is not stating that it was tragic accident. Zimmerman's has clearly stated that hew was attacked and defended himself with deadly force.

That removes the possibility of an accident. Either Trayvon was at fault or Zimmerman given those options.

[ClovingWestbrook]

Do most of you really think Zimmerman is a monster and murderer? Do you think he planned to kill Trayvon that day when he dicided to follow him? Some of you guys act like this is a case of premeditated murder against an unarmed child for no reason. It is not even close. There is a huge difference! Whether his life was ever in danger is certainly debatable (hence the charge). I can't believe that any of you actually believe he ''had it out'' for Trayvon and did this for any other reason than what he felt like was self defense. I don't know if the law will agree that it was self defense, but in my opinion, Zimmerman certainly felt that way at the time and didn't have the luxury of analyzing every thing to the millionth degree like all of you do. I am not trying to defend Zimmerman's actions, but I am trying to put myself in his shoes at this point, and I truly feel bad for him. In my opinion, he is clearly not a racist or a murderer, but simply someone who may or may not have made some bad decisions and judgment calls that led to the unforunate death of a 17 year old ''child''. None of us know exactly what happened in the minutes that led up to Trayvon's death, but most of you seem pretty sure of yourselves about what happened and why it happened and you seem hell-bent on prosecuting Zimmerman long before all the facts are known and the court of law has rendered a verdict.

Again, he killed someone. He WENT AFTER someone even after being told not to by police. He wasn't being threatened. He wasn't being attacked. Travon didn't do anything to him. Zimmerman WENT AFTER HIM. Do I feel bad for him? Yes. He made a terrible decision and will be paying for it for the rest of his life BUT he is still alive while Travon who is INNOCENT is dead.

[Leona Lewis]

I truly feel bad for him.

Yeah, he's the real victim here obviously. Not the unarmed kid who would still be alive today if Zimmerman had even a modicum of self-control.

[PhoenixPause]

Al Sharpton on the podium.

god dammit

[Measley]

Do most of you really think Zimmerman is a monster and murderer? Do you think he planned to kill Trayvon that day when he dicided to follow him? Some of you guys act like this is a case of premeditated murder against an unarmed child for no reason. It is not even close. There is a huge difference! Whether his life was ever in danger is certainly debatable (hence the charge). I can't believe that any of you actually believe he ''had it out'' for Trayvon and did this for any other reason than what he felt like was self defense. I don't know if the law will agree that it was self defense, but in my opinion, Zimmerman certainly felt that way at the time and didn't have the luxury of analyzing every thing to the millionth degree like all of you do. I am not trying to defend Zimmerman's actions, but I am trying to put myself in his shoes at this point, and I truly feel bad for him. In my opinion, he is clearly not a racist or a murderer, but simply someone who may or may not have made some bad decisions and judgment calls that led to the unforunate death of a 17 year old ''child''. None of us know exactly what happened in the minutes that led up to Trayvon's death, but most of you seem pretty sure of yourselves about what happened and why it happened and you seem hell-bent on prosecuting Zimmerman long before all the facts are known and the court of law has rendered a verdict.

All you need to do is look at the history of George Zimmerman. The guy assaulted a cop, beat his wife, had a paranoid fear of black males, and had a dirty Harry complex.

Only reason he hasn't already been sent up the creek already is because he killed a black kid. If he had killed a white kid, it would be first degree murder.

[Sentry]

Live feed anywhere?

[demigod]

Do most of you really think Zimmerman is a monster and a murderer? Do you think he planned to kill Trayvon that day when he decided to follow him? Some of you guys act like this is a case of premeditated murder against an unarmed child for no reason. It is not even close. There is a huge difference! Whether his life was ever in danger is certainly debatable (hence the charge). I can't believe that any of you actually believe he ''had it out'' for Trayvon and did this for any other reason than what he felt like was self defense. I don't know if the law will agree that it was self defense, but in my opinion, Zimmerman certainly felt that way at the time and didn't have the luxury of analyzing every thing to the millionth degree like all of you do. I am not trying to defend Zimmerman's actions, but I am trying to put myself in his shoes at this point, and I truly feel bad for him. In my opinion, he is clearly not a racist or a murderer, but simply someone who may or may not have made some bad decisions and judgment calls that led to the unforunate death of a 17 year old ''child''. None of us know exactly what happened in the minutes that led up to Trayvon's death, but most of you seem pretty sure of yourselves about what happened and why it happened and you seem hell-bent on prosecuting Zimmerman long before all the facts are known and the court of law has rendered a verdict.

Go listen to the 911 call before you make assumptions about us.

[Ulairi]

Do most of you really think Zimmerman is a monster and a murderer? Do you think he planned to kill Trayvon that day when he decided to follow him? Some of you guys act like this is a case of premeditated murder against an unarmed child for no reason. It is not even close. There is a huge difference! Whether his life was ever in danger is certainly debatable (hence the charge). I can't believe that any of you actually believe he ''had it out'' for Trayvon and did this for any other reason than what he felt like was self defense. I don't know if the law will agree that it was self defense, but in my opinion, Zimmerman certainly felt that way at the time and didn't have the luxury of analyzing every thing to the millionth degree like all of you do. I am not trying to defend Zimmerman's actions, but I am trying to put myself in his shoes at this point, and I truly feel bad for him. In my opinion, he is clearly not a racist or a murderer, but simply someone who may or may not have made some bad decisions and judgment calls that led to the unforunate death of a 17 year old ''child''. None of us know exactly what happened in the minutes that led up to Trayvon's death, but most of you seem pretty sure of yourselves about what happened and why it happened and you seem hell-bent on prosecuting Zimmerman long before all the facts are known and the court of law has rendered a verdict.

We know that Zimmerman was told to sit in the car and not chase after him. He didn't follow the professional police officers orders and we now have a dead boy. He's completely to blame for the death. If he did was he was told he wouldn't be on trial and Martin would still be alive.

[marathonfool]

Florida's Stand Your Ground law directly obstructed police from arresting Zimmerman. The police chef even stated it.

There was already a legal protection for self-defense written into law, SYG eradicated exceptions and put a broad protection layer for disproportionate response based a person's own judgement in a tense situation. By law, it cedes judgement to the mental state of a distressed individual.

[ElFly]

Do most of you really think Zimmerman is a monster and a murderer? Do you think he planned to kill Trayvon that day when he decided to follow him?

Well, in the 911 tape you can hear some metallic sounds that can be reasonably interpreted as a gun being loaded.

So at the very least he started following him and was planning on use his gun.



On other issues, the real problem with SYG is that it stopped the cops from arresting Zimmerman at first. Not that just being able to kill someone because you have "reasonable belief of bodily damage" is not super crazy.