[ElFly]

WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died. The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him. The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case. O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution. When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said. “It goes along with Zimmerman's story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin,” Sheaffer said. The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman's story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk. http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...uries-h/nN6gs/ Posted yet? didn't see it.

That's interesting, so there was a fight before.

Wonder if that's all the injuries Trayvon had. e: checked, seems other than the bullet wound and his knuckles there weren't other wounds.

This doesn't mean they are calling them. It is likely merely a list of possible witnesses that is extremely over-inclusive. I don't know Florida law, but it would be very unusual if, e.g., they had any obligation to disclose testifying expert witnesses so far from the trial date. In Texas, when an obligation to disclose witnesses is imposed on the prosecution, they typically provide a worthless document listing anybody they know about who has any information about the case, rather than a list of actual witnesses the prosecution is actually considering calling. Although the process is meant to inform the parties as to potential witnesses, the prosecution usually uses it to obscure rather than illuminate.

Oh, thanks.

Um, I thought Florida's retarded "stand your ground" law allowed a person to be where ever they want to be, and that there was no requirement to flee (a la George Zimmerman following Trayvon with a gun). But all of that aside: 20 YEARS!. No one was even shot. EDIT: from here So in Florida, THREATENING to stand your ground is illegal, but actually doing so (regardless of the circumstances) isn't. Wow.

Chances are, if he had shot her husband (I think it was her husband? haven't followed it) she'd be free.

[RustyNails]

WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died. The information could support George Zimmerman's claim that Martin beat him up before Zimmerman shot and killed him. The autopsy results come as Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O’Mara continues to go over other evidence in the case. O’Mara wouldn't comment on the autopsy evidence, but WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said it's better for the defense than it is for the prosecution. When you compare Trayvon’s non-fatal injury with Zimmerman's bloody head wounds, the autopsy evidence is better for the defense, Sheaffer said. “It goes along with Zimmerman's story that he acted in self-defense, because he was getting beaten up by Trayvon Martin,” Sheaffer said. The injury to Martin’s knuckle also fits with Zimmerman's story that before he shot and killed Martin, Martin had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground, slamming his head on the sidewalk. http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...uries-h/nN6gs/ Posted yet? didn't see it.

Just saw it on CNN:

A doctor's report says George Zimmerman had a fractured nose, black eyes and cuts on his head after his fatal confrontation with teen Trayvon Martin.

This kinda changes everything.

[Dali]

Just saw it on CNN: This kinda changes everything.

No it doesn't. As far as Trayvon was concerned he was fighting for his life. He was trying to stand his ground against a gun wielding stalker.

[remist]

No it doesn't. As far as Trayvon was concerned he was fighting for his life. He was trying to stand his ground against a gun wielding stalker.

Maybe. But it would be hard to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless they can somehow prove the person calling for help was Trayvon I don't see how Zimmerman gets convicted.

[Dali]

Maybe. But it would be hard to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless they can somehow prove the person calling for help was Trayvon I don't see how Zimmerman gets convicted.

Sounds like the way each side of the argument looked before that evidence was revealed. Far cry from it "chang[ing] everything".

[ElFly]

Maybe. But it would be hard to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Unless they can somehow prove the person calling for help was Trayvon I don't see how Zimmerman gets convicted.

They can claim that Trayvon had the right to stand his ground cause he feared for his life.

[remist]

Sounds like the way each side of the argument looked before that evidence was revealed. Far cry from it "chang[ing] everything".

I don't know how I would characterize it, but the doctor's report combined with the autopsy do strengthen Zimmerman's side of the story.

[ced]

It does change things, Zimmerman's account is now backed by evidence. Doesn't mean we know what happened that led to him getting his ass beat, but now everyone can't be calling him a liar.

[Dude Abides]

Just saw it on CNN: This kinda changes everything.

I don't think it was ever seriously disputed that there was some kind of fight. It does help Zimmerman if he got beat up pretty badly. I still think the most plausible scenario is that the Zimmerman got punched and hit the ground and that's where the head injuries came from, not from Martin smashing his head into the ground repeatedly.

Zimmerman still has the problem that there was screaming on the tape that suddenly stopped after the gunshot.

[Dali]

It does change things, Zimmerman's account is now backed by evidence. Doesn't mean we know what happened that led to him getting his ass beat, but now everyone can't be calling him a liar.

I guess because I never really cared or questioned what he was saying about his injuries. I don't see this as anything special. He said there was an altercation. That much was clear. If there's a fight between two healthy males its a foregone conclusion there will be injuries.
We got confirmation... a fight actually occurred. Ok. What else did the autopsy reveal? Did they find a bullet in trayvon?

[RustyNails]

I don't think it was ever seriously disputed that there was some kind of fight. It does help Zimmerman if he got beat up pretty badly. I still think the most plausible scenario is that the Zimmerman got punched and hit the ground and that's where the head injuries came from, not from Martin smashing his head into the ground repeatedly. Zimmerman still has the problem that there was screaming on the tape that suddenly stopped after the gunshot.

Head injury, sure. But Zimmerman got black eyed too as well as fractured nose. Plausibly Zimmerman pre-emptively pulled the trigger as he was getting beat, but I remember Crumb and Martin's parents saying on TV that when the camera caught footage of Zimmerman being brought into police, he was looking healthy with no cuts or bruises and therefore, Zimmerman is lying. I hope they weren't relying on Zimmerman being bruise-free for their case.

[Kreed]

It does change things, Zimmerman's account is now backed by evidence. Doesn't mean we know what happened that led to him getting his ass beat, but now everyone can't be calling him a liar.

Zimmerman's original claim was that he was attacked from behind by Trayvon/that he didn't start the fight. Having injuries/showing proof of a struggle doesn't prove this claim and there is more evidence that proves he was the one going after Trayvon and not the other way around. So yes, everyone can still call him a liar.

[Dude Abides]

Head injury, sure. But Zimmerman got black eyed too as well as fractured nose. Plausibly Zimmerman pre-emptively pulled the trigger as he was getting beat, but I remember Crumb and Martin's parents saying on TV that when the camera caught footage of Zimmerman being brought into police, he was looking healthy with no cuts or bruises and therefore, Zimmerman is lying. I hope they weren't relying on Zimmerman being bruise-free for their case.

But Zimmerman has to prove that he had a reasonable fear of imminent death or grievous bodily harm. In a sane courtroom getting punched in the nose by itself shouldn't be enough to establish that fear. That's why wants to show that his head was getting smashed into the ground.

[samus i am]

The problem for her is that she left the house and could have kept going but instead got a gun and went back into the house. That is where she screwed up. There was never a reason for her to come back into the house

Isn't that similar to what Zimmerman did? Instead of waiting for the police like he was told, he stalked Trayvon around the neighborhood and confronted him.

[quadriplegicjon]

Head injury, sure. But Zimmerman got black eyed too as well as fractured nose. Plausibly Zimmerman pre-emptively pulled the trigger as he was getting beat, but I remember Crumb and Martin's parents saying on TV that when the camera caught footage of Zimmerman being brought into police, he was looking healthy with no cuts or bruises and therefore, Zimmerman is lying. I hope they weren't relying on Zimmerman being bruise-free for their case.

Usually those come together. Fractured noses can cause black eyes. This could have all been from one punch from Trayvon to the nose, fractures it, giving him a black eye.. he falls to the ground and scratches his head. His injuries are still not consistent with his head being repeatedly smashed into the ground. I doubt he would have had a closed fracture if Trayvon was just wailing on him.

We all knew an altercation happened. If the extra video footage show Zimmerman going after Trayvon, and possibly confronting him, I don't see how he doesn't get sent to jail.

[Kosmo]

Usually those come together. Fractured noses can cause black eyes. This could have all been from one punch from Trayvon to the nose, fractures it, giving him a black eye.. he falls to the ground and scratches his head. His injuries are still not consistent with his head being repeatedly smashed into the ground. I doubt he would have had a closed fracture if Trayvon was just wailing on him. We all knew an altercation happened. If the extra video footage show Zimmerman going after Trayvon, and possibly confronting him, I don't see how he doesn't get sent to jail.

Case closed!

Trayvon Defense Force amuses me to no end. Seems you guys know everything that happened and yet when any evidence comes out supporting Zimmerman's story it's all "Well, maybe he just got hit once, fell like a little bitch and scratched his head. Doesn't mean he should fear for this life!"

Nobody knows what the fuck happened beyond an altercation, Trayvon probably punching Zimmerman, Zimmerman shooting him and everything else is speculation.

[Dali]

Case closed! Trayvon Defense Force amuses me to no end. Seems you guys know everything that happened and yet when any evidence comes out supporting Zimmerman's story it's all "Well, maybe he just got hit once, fell like a little bitch and scratched his head. Doesn't mean he should fear for this life!" Nobody knows what the fuck happened beyond an altercation, Trayvon probably punching Zimmerman, Zimmerman shooting him and everything else is speculation.

I know. Fucking dumbasses. Just let the kid defend himself. If Zimmerman's lying he should just explain what really happened.

[quadriplegicjon]

Case closed! Trayvon Defense Force amuses me to no end. Seems you guys know everything that happened and yet when any evidence comes out supporting Zimmerman's story it's all "Well, maybe he just got hit once, fell like a little bitch and scratched his head. Doesn't mean he should fear for this life!" Nobody knows what the fuck happened beyond an altercation, Trayvon probably punching Zimmerman, Zimmerman shooting him and everything else is speculation.

Huh? "This could have all been from" Are you just trying to be an asshole, or do you have some serious cognitive deficits? It was obvious that you were insinuating that Trayvon was the aggressor, and I was pointing out how not only could (key word here!) the injuries have been from one punch, but from what we have seen, his injuries are not consistent with his head being repeatedly smashed into the ground. And yes, I know what I am talking about.

Now I didn't say it happened that way (I said it was possible), but I think it's absolutely disgusting that you are trying to demonize an unarmed 17 year old kid that was killed after being stalked. Yes, an altercation happened, but it doesn't fucking matter because it was Zimmerman that basically initiated this whole thing.

We also know far more than: Trayvon punched Zimmerman, Zimmerman shot Trayvon

[BHZ Mayor]

Trayvon Defense Force

Classless and disgusting.

[Mikasangelos]

lolol

[shintoki]

No it doesn't. As far as Trayvon was concerned he was fighting for his life. He was trying to stand his ground against a gun wielding stalker.

This is actually what I wanted to ask while gone. Wouldn't it be in reverse? Martin was the one being followed and had the reason to stand his ground. Not the other way around.

[quadriplegicjon]

Classless and disgusting.

I'm actually quite horrified how republicans have come out en mass against Trayvon, in the manner they have... The amount of money that Zimmerman received for his defense is astounding.... speaking of defense forces...

[Loudninja]

This is actually what I wanted to ask while gone. Wouldn't it be in reverse? Martin was the one being followed and had the reason to stand his ground. Not the other way around.

Yep the following than chasing after him after told not to is a big deal to me.

Also give em the full autopsy results not just what you claim help your case.

[Kosmo]

I'm actually quite horrified how republicans have come out en mass against Trayvon, in the manner they have... The amount of money that Zimmerman received for his defense is astounding.... speaking of defense forces...

I'm not coming out on either side. Let the case play itself out. You guys are the one looking for every excuse to explain away anything that supports Zimmerman.

[Downhome]

Call me a Zimmerman supporter, I don't care (even though I haven't taken one side or the other), but I just don't think the guy was a bloodthirsty monster out to kill Martin that night. I Think he was legitimately worried for his community, as other neighbors have said, and was just trying to keep his eye on someone that didn't look familiar to his community. I've done the same thing before, and I'm sure tons of other people do every day, when they see someone unfamiliar in their area around the same time that trouble has already gone down.

I just don't think he meant for anything bad to happen, intentionally, since he called the cops and was on the phone for 911 explaining what was going on and what he was doing, and then after the shooting he remained at the scene and didn't put up any sort of fight at all.

I predict the jury will feel the exact same way, especially with all of the new information that has come out today, and he will get off and the entire thing will go down as an unfortunate tragedy because of a volatile mixture of coincidence and "wrong place at the wrong time", and just not enough there to convince the jury otherwise with all of this new information.

The whole thing sucks, I hate it and it saddens me, but I just don't think there is enough there in the public for it to end any other way.

I also think they made a huge mistake going after Zimmerman on the charges that he has been charged with. I felt that way even before the new information came out.

[GaimeGuy]

I'm not coming out on either side. Let the case play itself out. You guys are the one looking for every excuse to explain away anything that supports Zimmerman.

I don't think anyone who brings a loaded firearm with them while they stalk an unarmed minor in the middle of the night and ends up shooting them dead should be found innocent in any court of law unless they can prove they attempted to remove themself from the situation and gave the other party notice they were backing off. This also requires the other party to give them the time to relay this message.

There is nothing defensive about following someone around with a gun.

[thekad]

Yeah, guys. Kosmo is unbiased.

[nVidiot_Whore]

chasing after him after told not to is a big deal to me.

Not sure where people get this from.

I'm far from ZDF, but if you listen to the tape.. after he is asked if he is following him, and the 911 responded says "We don't need you to do that sir", within seconds his voice changes.. he goes from obviously running/heavy breathing to not.

How anyone gets he "continues chasing him after being told not to" is beyond me. Seems to be a fact getting repeated without actually analyzing the audio.

I'm a "wait for the trial" type myself; the evidence as examined looks like a case of over-zealous vigilantism combined with over-zealous self defense. Which I'm guessing is what the murder charge will be justified with; he put himself in that position woefully unprepared to handle a confrontation with anyone other than to shoot and kill them.. which is not really his legal right or duty.

As far as this new "evidence".. I don't see what is new.. there was other evidence of his injuries, consistent with getting punched in the face.

A fractured nose will quite often cause 2 black eyes, and it's not unlikely that he was confronted by Trayvon..

Listen to the audio tape.. when he's following Trayvon he claims T turns around and stares at him.. then runs..

It's going to be fairly easy to suggest Trayvon was feeling threatened by Zimmerman's presence, and that he himself was acting in a form of self defense. Trayvon's own actions may also have been illegal, resulting in some sort of assault and battery charge had the situation turned out differently, but that doesn't necessarily justify a self defense shooting.

Especially if the defense can prove or suggest Trayvon had already halted his "attack" when Zimmerman pulled out his firearm... combined with the suggestion that Zimmerman's injuries are not that of someone whose life was being threatened.

But that's just analysis of what we currently know.. there will be far more evidence to look at once the trial starts.

It'll be a somewhat interesting trial, with a media and internet shitstorm that will likely be aggravating to pay any attention to.

[Loudninja]

Not sure where people get this from. I'm far from ZDF, but if you listen to the tape.. after he is asked if he is following him, and the 911 responded says "We don't need you to do that sir", within seconds his voice changes.. he goes from obviously running/heavy breathing to not. How anyone gets he "continues chasing him after being told not to" is beyond me. Seems to be a fact getting repeated without actually analyzing the audio. I'm a "wait for the trial" type myself; the evidence as examined looks like a case of over-zealous vigilantism combined with over-zealous self defense. Which I'm guessing is what the murder charge will be justified with; he put himself in that position woefully unprepared to handle a confrontation with anyone other than to shoot and kill them.. which is not really his legal right or duty. As far as this new "evidence".. I don't see what is new.. there was other evidence of his injuries, consistent with getting punched in the face. A fractured nose will quite often cause 2 black eyes, and it's not unlikely that he was confronted by Trayvon.. Listen to the audio tape.. when he's following Trayvon he claims T turns around and stares at him.. then runs.. It's going to be fairly easy to suggest Trayvon was feeling threatened by Zimmerman's presence, and that he himself was acting in a form of self defense. Trayvon's own actions may also have been illegal, resulting in some sort of assault and battery charge had the situation turned out differently, but that doesn't necessarily justify a self defense shooting. Especially if the defense can prove or suggest Trayvon had already halted his "attack" when Zimmerman pulled out his firearm... combined with the suggestion that Zimmerman's injuries are not that of someone whose life was being threatened. But that's just analysis of what we currently know.. there will be far more evidence to look at once the trial starts. It'll be a somewhat interesting trial, with a media and internet shitstorm that will likely be aggravating to pay any attention to.

He was still following him going by Zimmerman own words.

Remember he claim Trayvon said something to him and than the fight happen.

[Kosmo]

I don't think anyone who brings a loaded firearm with them while they stalk an unarmed minor in the middle of the night and ends up shooting them dead should be found innocent in any court of law unless they can prove they attempted to remove themself from the situation and gave the other party notice they were backing off. This also requires the other party to give them the time to relay this message. There is nothing defensive about following someone around with a gun.

Conversely, it's hard to classify someone as not being an aggressor when he has damage to his knuckles and the other person had a broken nose and cuts to the back of his head.

I concede that Zimmerman should not have followed Trayvon, but beyond that it's speculation. Do we know that Trayvon did not then confront Zimmerman and throw the first punch? Is it crazy to think it played out like this:

"Why are you following me?"
"The cops are coming, don't move."
"Cops? I'm not waiting for the cops, I didn't do anything."
"We've had a lot of crime, don't move."
"I'm not waiting!"(throws punch to try and knock Zimmerman away)
Zimmerman is getting his ass beat (as one reported witness has indicated), and pulls his gun.

[nVidiot_Whore]

He was still following him going by Zimmerman own words. Remember he claim Trayvon said something to him and than the fight happen.

I don't even know what you are referring too.

The audio tape, where he is told "We don't need you to do that sir" (from a non-official, 911 operators are not officers of the law)... is about all we have.. and it really sounds like he does exactly that; stops following.

The reason the 911 operator asks is because you can hear him breathing heavily.. and his voice is strained.. which ends shortly after he says "Ok" to the "We don't need you to do that sir".

The tape ends shortly after that.. none of which indicates he continues following him.

I've seen people claim it's that tape that shows he continues to follow. And.. I do not hear that when I listen to it.

[FyreWulff]

Conversely, it's hard to classify someone as not being an aggressor when he has damage to his knuckles and the other person had a broken nose and cuts to the back of his head.

Usually when you're trying to get a murderer away from you, you will punch them with your fists, since your hands are generally available at all times.

[Loudninja]

I don't even know what you are referring too. The audio tape, where he is told "We don't need you to do that sir" (from a non-official, 911 operators are not officers of the law)... is about all we have.. and it really sounds like he does exactly that; stops following. The reason the 911 operator asks is because you can hear him breathing heavily.. and his voice is strained.. which ends shortly after he says "Ok" to the "We don't need you to do that sir". The tape ends shortly after that.. none of which indicates he continues following him. I've seen people claim it's that tape that shows he continues to follow. And.. I do not hear that when I listen to it.

He had to follow him for the fight to happen.

I am not sure what you are talking about, it does not matter if he was running or whatever.

[Dude Abides]

Conversely, it's hard to classify someone as not being an aggressor when he has damage to his knuckles and the other person had a broken nose and cuts to the back of his head. I concede that Zimmerman should not have followed Trayvon, but beyond that it's speculation. Do we know that Trayvon did not then confront Zimmerman and throw the first punch? Is it crazy to think it played out like this: "Why are you following me?" "The cops are coming, don't move." "Cops? I'm not waiting for the cops, I didn't do anything." "We've had a lot of crime, don't move." "I'm not waiting!"(throws punch to try and knock Zimmerman away) Zimmerman is getting his ass beat (as one reported witness has indicated), and pulls his gun.

Why doesn't the Zimmerman defense force narrative ever include the screaming and the sudden cessation thereof after the gunshot?

[GaimeGuy]

Conversely, it's hard to classify someone as not being an aggressor when he has damage to his knuckles and the other person had a broken nose and cuts to the back of his head. I concede that Zimmerman should not have followed Trayvon, but beyond that it's speculation. Do we know that Trayvon did not then confront Zimmerman and throw the first punch? Is it crazy to think it played out like this: "Why are you following me?" "The cops are coming, don't move." "Cops? I'm not waiting for the cops, I didn't do anything." "We've had a lot of crime, don't move." "I'm not waiting!"(throws punch to try and knock Zimmerman away) Zimmerman is getting his ass beat (as one reported witness has indicated), and pulls his gun.

That depends on if you define the aggressor as being the one who threw the first punch or the person who escalated the situation to a heightened sense of perceived danger.

Following someone around with a gun, and that person knowing they are being followed by you, attempting to flee, but you persisting in your pursuit... I fail to see how you're not classified as the aggressor in that scenario, and it doesn't magically change when someone throws a punch unless the initial confrontation had clearly ceased. Meaning no one's following anyone else and everyone has backed off from each other.

At that point, the punch creates a new confrontation.

[KHarvey16]

He had to follow him for the fight to happen. I am not sure what you are talking about, it does not matter if he was running or whatever.

Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon came back to confront him.

[Kosmo]

That depends on if you define the aggressor as being the one who threw the first punch or the person who escalated the situation to a heightened sense of perceived danger. Following someone around with a gun, and that person knowing they are being followed by you, attempting to flee, but you persisting in your pursuit... I fail to see how you're not classified as the aggressor in that scenario, and it doesn't magically change when someone throws a punch unless the initial confrontation had clearly ceased. Meaning no one's following anyone else and everyone has backed off from each other. At that point, the punch creates a new confrontation.

Right, so none of us know exactly what happened, so why are you continuing to draw conclusions?

[GaimeGuy]

Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon came back to confront him.

Yeah, well, it's called "fight or flight" response for a reason.

[Loudninja]

Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon came back to confront him.

Yeah he is going to run away from Zimmerman than come back to confront him.

[Dram]

Didn't Zimmerman say Trayvon attacked him near his car? Doesn't the fact that Trayvon's body was found no where near Zimmerman's car prove he was lying?

[Aylinato]

let's put this in the deniers of zimmerman's guiltyness.

He was attacked at his truck. His truck was a hell of a distance away from where Trayvon was murdered. There is no rational reasoning that can be done to justify Zimmerman claiming self-defense after following a MINOR for that long of a distance after being told not to follow him.

Remember, his truck, super long distance away from where he murdered Trayvon. There is no justification for that much of a distance, and would be a different story had he shot Trayvon Next to his vehicle(u know, actually defending himself when in "threatening situation")


Trayvon's body being no where near the truck is the most damning evidence and it seems all the Zimmerman apologists keep "forgetting" that fact.

[nVidiot_Whore]

He had to follow him for the fight to happen.

Because it's physically impossible for Trayvon to have turned around and walked back towards Zimmerman? I'm not questioning whether he originally followed Trayvon around.. he did.. I'm talking about people claiming he continued to chase him after he was told he didn't need to do that by a 911 operator.

I am not sure what you are talking about, it does not matter if he was running or whatever.

You should listen to the tape.

It sounds like a guy running after someone.

Who then stops running after him.

Whether he continued walking in the direction Trayvon ran? I have no way of knowing that. But it does sound like he stopped "chasing" Trayvon.

[KHarvey16]

Yeah he is going to run away from Zimmerman than come back to confront him.

Why is it ok to assume irrationality can only come from one participant in this incident?

[Baconsammy]

Didn't Zimmerman say Trayvon attacked him near his car? Doesn't the fact that Trayvon's body was found no where near Zimmerman's car prove he was lying?

Zimmermans dad said that. Zimmerman's report to police merely says Trayvon attacked him on his way back to his car.

[GaimeGuy]

Right, so none of us know exactly what happened, so why are you continuing to draw conclusions?

Because some guy with an ego and a history of anger management/violence issues decided to grab his gun and play cop, resulting in the death of a teenager who was simply walking home from the convenience store.

Forgive me for being upset, but I've gone to the gas station down the road and across the street from my apartment at night to pick up a snack a few times myself. I'm not black, but the scenario is a bit too familiar for comfort.

The idea that some asshole could follow me in his car, scare me shitless after I walk around the block and make 3 or 4 left turns to verify he's actually following me in his car, then pursues me on foot when I get away from the roads (bringing a loaded firearm with him), and can shoot me dead and claim self-defense because I bloody him up a bit, well, it's not exactly pleasant.

[Ignatz Mouse]

I had said early on that what really outraged me was that they didn't charge and prosecute Zimmerman.

They are doing that now. If all the details end up supporting Zimmerman's claim, I'm OK with that.

That said, weighing the bits and pieces as filtered through news is a losing game. Wait for the trial, people.

[nVidiot_Whore]

Yeah, well, it's called "fight or flight" response for a reason.

Yes, because people never run, and then decide to confront someone.

WTF?

I can't stand threads like this. People either come across like someone hell-bent on proving Zimmerman right, or hell-bent on proving Zimmerman wrong.

See evidence; analyze how that relates to a criminal trial..

Instead we get "Well it's fight OR flight.. people NEVER decide to fight after running!"

I can just see it.. Zimerman is on the stand..being questioned by prosecutors.

Prosecutor: "What is your version of the events."

Martin: "Well, he ran away from me.. so I chased him. But then after I stopped chasing him, he must have decided to come back and confront me."

Prosecutor: "Well that's funny sir.. haven't you ever heard the saying.. Fight OR Flight!"

*Prosecutor turns to jury*

"The prosecution rests."

[Kosmo]

Didn't Zimmerman say Trayvon attacked him near his car? Doesn't the fact that Trayvon's body was found no where near Zimmerman's car prove he was lying?

A map of the scene with speculation on the timeline:

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-lineh...n-doubled-back

I'm not endorsing or refuting their explanation of events.

[polyh3dron]

They can claim that Trayvon had the right to stand his ground cause he feared for his life.

Black people aren't allowed to stand their ground in Florida. Hell, if a black person even fires a warning shot they get 20 years.

[Aylinato]

A map of the scene with speculation on the timeline: http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-lineh...n-doubled-back I'm not endorsing or refuting their explanation of events.

Trayvon didnt double back, he got shot behind the houses, that website's timeline doesnt make any sense

*reading it again* If this timeline is correct, and how Zimmerman moved, it's more damning then anything else.