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AceBandage
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

Hadn't even thought of the possibility of XBL subscriptions becoming mandatory. Oh Lord, what evils this generation has wrought...

Forced DLC and forced subs for online. Oh and no used games. Next Gen, everyone.
M74
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

Hadn't even thought of the possibility of XBL subscriptions becoming mandatory. Oh Lord, what evils this generation has wrought...

"Leasing" consoles better not become the next big thing to do. You lease heavy equipment. You lease cars. You lease trailers. Leasing consumer electronics? No thanks.
Smiles and Cries
To hell with Bono,
here's a worthy cause.
(05-02-2012, 11:22 PM)
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I see it as what normally happens when a 2 year contract is over for a phone you upgrade to the next great hyped phone...

so when these two year subscriptions are up for these $99 Xbox 360s MS has these suckers all lined up to upgrade to Durango with new 2year rides
Ichor
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by AceBandage

Forced DLC and forced subs for online. Oh and no used games. Next Gen, everyone.

New DLC released, game deactivated until you buy it. *laughs*

No online subscription? Console deactivated until you buy it.



Even I can't laugh at that.
Last edited by Ichor; 05-02-2012 at 11:24 PM.
IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-02-2012, 11:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by MDX

Well I can imagine:
Sony or MS could have set up a "neutral" game studio just to get their hands on their competitor's hardware. There is probably a good reason why Nintendo does not give each developer the same unit. Probably the most trusted ones get the latest kits. Others might get old kits just to throw the competition off.

A little bit of spontaneous info about dev kits, related to your post (and i promised something about them a few days ago if the last week news failed to deliver which wasn't the case):

The boxes are numbered and sealed by a large warning sticker that basically says that the "warranty" wouldn't be valid anymore if it was removed. It comes with legal stuff & clauses that would make people working on these dev kits liable for pursuits, actionable, if they are too curious and dismantle them to do some extensive reverse-engineering. Some of the specs are seen while booting the dev kits, a list (don't know if it's complete) is accessible in SDK, so people don't really need to dissect the boxes innards to know its specifics. And if they have access to SDK and warioworld, they are again under a legal frame that forbid them to do what they want with the info.

I even bet in this pre-launch period, that studios are accountable to Nintendo and must give some news, some proofs of their development on the system + Big N surely study extensively the background/profile of the companies who want to become licensed developers for their unreleased system, to avoid the cases that you are describing.

All these measures don't prevent industrial espionage, of course, and the "natural" spreading of information amongst the industry, especially from third-parties, with the studios staff turn-over, changes of positions, etc. So, there are other ways for Nintendo to counter this, with "inner circles" policy where latest revisions of their dev kits are reserved for first and second parties, some things are kept hidden to more distant studios, in terms of hierarchy and ties. To illustrate that, MAJOR aspects of the system (not hardware specs or DRC features in this case) still aren't known by BIG third-parties in this present day, i let you guess what they are.

It comes from another source that the ones i'm usually referring to when i give infos.
Last edited by IdeaMan; 05-03-2012 at 06:31 PM.
GameplayWhore
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Smiles and Cries

so what are the chances that Durango is so powerful that it will need this subscription plan that MS is testing out?

Oh, wow, so the Xboxaroonie may be a leased system or something along those lines? That's a pretty cool idea for some types of user. Keep sending in a monthly fee, get free tech support, and every few years you're just sent a new hardware revision. Sweet and simple.
guek
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:27 PM)
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But ideaman, how are we supposed to believe you're somehow privy to major dev kit secrets when important 3rd parties are not? That's a hard pill to swallow.
GameplayWhore
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by IdeaMan

MAJOR things of the system still aren't known by BIG third-parties in this present day, i let you guess what they are.

I like where this is going, but I don't like the part afterward where your response is "no, not haptics".
IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-02-2012, 11:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

But ideaman, how are we supposed to believe you're somehow privy to major dev kit secrets when important 3rd parties are not? That's a hard pill to swallow.

Read again my message.

The major parts of the system that third-parties aren't aware of, i'm OBVIOUSLY not aware of them either :)

Worded differently: they know what is missing, they know what they can't see/use yet, THEN they don't know how Nintendo will build/make/implement these, how they will look like, how it will work.
Last edited by IdeaMan; 05-02-2012 at 11:34 PM.
Smiles and Cries
To hell with Bono,
here's a worthy cause.
(05-02-2012, 11:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by guek

But ideaman, how are we supposed to believe you're somehow privy to major dev kit secrets when important 3rd parties are not? That's a hard pill to swallow.

this...
come out and tell us man... we cannot guess something so major that the big guys don't even know

spill the beans and be superhero!

what is the name of a French Superhero?

googles
guek
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by IdeaMan

The major parts of the system that third-parties aren't aware of, i'm OBVIOUSLY not aware of them either :)

Ah ok, that makes more sense. You made it sound like you knew what these super secret features were.
GameplayWhore
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by IdeaMan

Read again my message.

The major parts of the system that third-parties aren't aware of, i'm OBVIOUSLY not aware of them either :)

Worded differently: they know what is missing, they know what they can't see/use yet, THEN they don't know how Nintendo will build/make/implement these, how they will look like, how they will working.

You're basically saying in the post that devs cannot open up the systems to look inside and are limited to what Nintendo tells them either directly or via the software interface. Is that a good reading?
Fantastical
Death Prophet
(05-02-2012, 11:34 PM)
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I forget, how do we know IdeaMan isn't bullshitting us?
dwu8991
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by GameplayWhore

Oh, wow, so the Xboxaroonie may be a leased system or something along those lines? That's a pretty cool idea for some types of user. Keep sending in a monthly fee, get free tech support, and every few years you're just sent a new hardware revision. Sweet and simple.

in your dreams sending a new hardware revision.
GameplayWhore
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantastical

I forget, how do we know IdeaMan isn't bullshitting us?

(reposted from #18966 of Thread The Third)

Okay, here's as much confirmation as we ever got on IdeaMan:

Originally Posted by lherre

Ideaman and me talked via pm and we "exchanged" info about wii U. I think that he has good info in some ways, but you have to understand that this info can be subjective too (for example in the perception that his "friends" can have about the machine), just like mine.

I'm not trying to legitimize him (only the mods can) but I think it can be interesting to hear what he wants to say (or his connections allow him to say).

edit: And lherre was at an earlier time confirmed by a mod to be in a position where he could have direct access to a Wii U devkit
Last edited by GameplayWhore; 05-02-2012 at 11:41 PM.
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(05-02-2012, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantastical

I forget, how do we know IdeaMan isn't bullshitting us?

He told us about Rayman Legends before it was leaked.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天堂 の 忍者
(05-02-2012, 11:39 PM)
Satterfield was right. I am officially excite! As of an hour ago.
Last edited by Shikamaru Ninja; 05-03-2012 at 12:14 AM.
Smiles and Cries
To hell with Bono,
here's a worthy cause.
(05-02-2012, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantastical

I forget, how do we know IdeaMan isn't bullshitting us?

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/f/french.htm

he is not listed as an official french superhero

but he can still be a NeoGAF hero

let's change his name to Le Chat!(the cat)
El Chupacabra
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantastical

I forget, how do we know IdeaMan isn't bullshitting us?

He's French. Once we apply pressure he'll tell us the truth surrender and tell us the truth.

I feel bad for typing that, sorry. Just a stupid joke, hopefully no one takes any offense.
GameplayWhore
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by dwu8991

in your dreams sending a new hardware revision.

But isn't that how leasing works generally? You give them an amount substantially higher than the actual list price of the hardware, but it's split up over time so as to not be terrible on a month to month basis, and they take care of the difficult stuff, like getting the next model when it comes out.

Otherwise, it's just renting.


edit: by revision I meant a major revision, like the subsequent generation, not a minor revision, like the same thing with a slightly bigger hard drive
FoxHimself
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by IdeaMan

Read again my message.

The major parts of the system that third-parties aren't aware of, i'm OBVIOUSLY not aware of them either :)

Worded differently: they know what is missing, they know what they can't see/use yet, THEN they don't know how Nintendo will build/make/implement these, how they will look like, how it will work.

Enough of this shit. Seriously.

I don't care if you actually know something, you're arguing in circles.
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(05-02-2012, 11:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElTopo

He's French. Once we apply pressure he'll tell us the truth.

I feel bad for typing that, sorry. Just a stupid joke, hopefully no one takes any offense.

The pressure amounts to us just existing. French people love leaking confidential infos! ;)
DrWong
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by FoxHimself

Sorry AceBandage, today will have to suffice.

Here's parts of the transcription of the Wii U part of my interview with Treyarch boss Mark Lamia. (It was before the release date was known)

The full interview is here: In Norwegian



Have fun.

It was fun to read. Thanks. Would like to watch a video record of this part of the interview...

Originally Posted by IdeaMan

[U]MAJOR things of the system still aren't known by BIG third-parties in this present day, i let you guess what they are.

It comes from another source that the ones i'm usually referring to when i give infos.

Dual sources. Great. Also, all those rumours, comments (Ono, Akaoni), leaks about unknown things & features are really entertaining. At least it points to some nice surprises coming E3.
Instro
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

Shatterfield was right. I am officially excite! As of an hour ago.

.................

Wait a minute...
IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-02-2012, 11:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by GameplayWhore

I like where this is going, but I don't like the part afterward where your response is "no, not haptics".

Originally Posted by Smiles and Cries

this...
come out and tell us man... we cannot guess something so major that the big guys don't even know

spill the beans and be superhero!

what is the name of a French Superhero?

googles

Originally Posted by GameplayWhore

You're basically saying in the post that devs cannot open up the systems to look inside and are limited to what Nintendo tells them either directly or via the software interface. Is that a good reading?

read again my message, it's clear :(

Major things of the system not known by third-parties (they know what are missing, they don't know how it will be implemented, how it will look and work)

and i insisted in a lot of my previous messages that they aren't aware of major "physical" new features on the DRC (like haptic). In this case, they are aware of what is missing.

It was basically an illustration of the "inner circles" thing, how some huge aspects of the systems are still rather unknown to date to big third-parties, for secrecy purposes and certainly because Nintendo is still developing these.
Discomurf
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

Shatterfield was right. I am officially excite! As of an hour ago.


DO TELL. What happened an hour ago?
Smiles and Cries
To hell with Bono,
here's a worthy cause.
(05-02-2012, 11:43 PM)
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IdeaMan you have to take a break even if you do have sources and we loved your posts and hints but the last 30 days before E3 will have people on edge and they might react very negatively to these posts now

think about it man the fun is over
Kard8p3
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

Shatterfield was right. I am officially excite! As of an hour ago.

More info is required
daCuk
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Smiles and Cries

this...
come out and tell us man... we cannot guess something so major that the big guys don't even know

spill the beans and be superhero!

what is the name of a French Superhero?

googles

Asterix
GameplayWhore
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Discomurf

DO TELL. What happened an hour ago?

#8580, Shane Satterfield (Gametrailers editor-in-chief) claims Wii U launch lineup will be a very positive surprise (specific quote in #8697)

Shik must have found out something regarding the launch lineup.
guek
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

Shatterfield was right. I am officially excite! As of an hour ago.

what. do. you. know.

please tell me! I wont say a peep to anyone! you can trust me! *waits patiently for a pm...*
Smiles and Cries
To hell with Bono,
here's a worthy cause.
(05-02-2012, 11:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

Shatterfield was right. I am officially excite! As of an hour ago.

god damn
DrWong
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kard8p3

More info is required

I kindly insist.
daakusedo
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:46 PM)
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In the end, the most valuable infos we've got are from wsippel lately like the issues with middleware, that was pretty telling, so that's not really important, even more at one month from e3.
IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-02-2012, 11:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Smiles and Cries

IdeaMan you have to take a break even if you do have sources and we loved your posts and hints but the last 30 days before E3 will have people on edge and they might react very negatively to these posts now

think about it man the fun is over

The post is pretty precise and in direct answer to someone wondering basically if other manufacturers can create a fake studio to be a licensed developer and access to Wii U dev kits. It's concise and detailed, with never-heard before informations.

There are 3 lines at the end more vague to illustrate the "inner circles" policy, that's all, not my fault if people don't read the message and the initial quote attentively.

If i was a poster around here, i would like to imagine thanks to this kind of posts, how the dev kits looks like. Some folks here are becoming a bit too impatient and eager for groundbreaking things whereas smaller ones are STILL interesting.
Last edited by IdeaMan; 05-02-2012 at 11:49 PM.
shadyspace
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:47 PM)
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I don't really care about any of the Excite games, tho :/
Sadist
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

Shatterfield was right. I am officially excite! As of an hour ago.



Oh shit son
UncleSporky
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:48 PM)
Basically IdeaMan, what you are saying is that third parties don't necessarily know things like the full amount of RAM they have access to, how many polys the system can push, how many and what type of shaders it supports, how much storage space there is on a WiiU disc? Nintendo tells them baselines to assume, but the numbers are expected to be somewhat higher?

But then I don't understand how anyone can properly develop for a system without knowing these things.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
(05-02-2012, 11:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by GameplayWhore

(reposted from #18966 of Thread The Third)

Okay, here's as much confirmation as we ever got on IdeaMan:



edit: And lherre was at an earlier time confirmed by a mod to be in a position where he could have direct access to a Wii U devkit

Alright good enough for me. Plus in a month we'll know this stuff so whatevs.
MatthewB92
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:48 PM)
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God this is getting too crazy and we aren't even 30 days away from E3. OT 5 and 6 will be amazing from this point on.
GameplayWhore
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by IdeaMan

read again my message, it's clear :(

Major things of the system not known by third-parties (they know what are missing, they don't know how it will be implemented, how it will look and work)

and i insisted in a lot of my previous messages that they aren't aware of major "physical" new features on the DRC (like haptic). In this case, they are aware of what is missing.

It was basically an illustration of the "inner circles" thing, how some huge aspects of the systems are still rather unknown to date to big third-parties, for secrecy purposes and certainly because Nintendo is still developing these.

In your original post, the bolded part sounded like total speculation. I think that's why people were confused. The only really concrete portion of your message was the inability of devs to physically open up the box. And the rest are things that were already obvious (such as Nintendo giving first kick at their new kits to first and second parties).


Originally Posted by UncleSporky

Basically IdeaMan, what you are saying is that third parties don't necessarily know things like the full amount of RAM they have access to, how many polys the system can push, how many and what type of shaders it supports, how much storage space there is on a WiiU disc? Nintendo tells them baselines to assume, but the numbers are expected to be somewhat higher?

But then I don't understand how anyone can properly develop for a system without knowing these things.

Aye, that's what I got out of it, too, but that's apparently not what he was saying.
guek
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by IdeaMan

The post is pretty precise and in direct answer to someone wondering basically if other manufacturers can create a fake studio to be a licensed developer and access to Wii U dev kits. It's concise and detailed, with never-heard before informations.

There are 3 lines at the end more vague to illustrate the "inner circles" policy, that's all, not my fault if people don't read the message and the initial quote attentively.

No, that post was very difficult to decipher. I gather that English is likely not your native language, so it's all good, but don't blame us for being confused over your writing.
dwu8991
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by GameplayWhore

But isn't that how leasing works generally? You give them an amount substantially higher than the actual list price of the hardware, but it's split up over time so as to not be terrible on a month to month basis, and they take care of the difficult stuff, like getting the next model when it comes out.

Otherwise, it's just renting.


edit: by revision I meant a major revision, like the subsequent generation, not a minor revision, like the same thing with a slightly bigger hard drive

no, it's not like leasing

rather it's just paying over a 2 year contract like a mobile phone

works out well for those who can't save like low income groups
Akai
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(05-02-2012, 11:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by IdeaMan

Major things of the system not known by third-parties (they know what are missing, they don't know how it will be implemented, how it will look and work)

So they DO know what's missing, just not how it's implemented, is what you mean...
Fantastical
Death Prophet
(05-02-2012, 11:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Ninja

Shatterfield was right. I am officially excite! As of an hour ago.

So the launch lineup is good?
AceBandage
Banned
(05-02-2012, 11:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by UncleSporky

Basically IdeaMan, what you are saying is that third parties don't necessarily know things like the full amount of RAM they have access to, how many polys the system can push, how many and what type of shaders it supports, how much storage space there is on a WiiU disc? Nintendo tells them baselines to assume, but the numbers are expected to be somewhat higher?

But then I don't understand how anyone can properly develop for a system without knowing these things.

No. They know important specs. What they don't know are certain software features and how Nintendo will use them.
IdeaMan
My source is my ass!
(05-02-2012, 11:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by UncleSporky

Basically IdeaMan, what you are saying is that third parties don't necessarily know things like the full amount of RAM they have access to, how many polys the system can push, how many and what type of shaders it supports, how much storage space there is on a WiiU disc? Nintendo tells them baselines to assume, but the numbers are expected to be somewhat higher?

But then I don't understand how anyone can properly develop for a system without knowing these things.

In my message, i'm not talking about specs, i said that those are already seen (some of them) during the dev kit boot sequence, and in SDK documentation.
Bluemercury
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:54 PM)
hey guys! Nice thread here...who's shatterfield???
UncleSporky
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:54 PM)

Originally Posted by AceBandage

No. They know important specs. What they don't know are certain software features and how Nintendo will use them.

But the important specs are exactly the kind of things that competitors would want to get their hands on, and the kind of info that is easily disseminated along unofficial channels.

Doesn't make sense to say that Nintendo has methods in place to keep competitors locked out, and yet many of the things they'd want to know are out in the open. That's why my assumption is that these are some of the protected/obscure things.
weird
Member
(05-02-2012, 11:54 PM)
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So... EXCITE BOBBY CAR is a given then?

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