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Lostconfused
I can make you pick a fight
With someone twice your size
(04-17-2012, 06:10 PM)
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Guess there is no point in upgrading from an i5-750 right now.
Monarch
Junior Member
(04-17-2012, 06:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by 1-D_FTW

Except if the Tweaktown review is any indication, not really. There were some benchs where the 2500k was a frame or two quicker. It was pretty much a dead heat. And it was only 2 or 3 watts more efficient under load and idle than the 2500k. It's a COMPLETE disappointment if you're expecting anything over the 2500k in terms of performance/efficiency.

What are you talking about ? In almost every benchs in the TD review, we see the 3570K ahead of the 2500K (even 2700K in certain cases) for less energy consumed. Sure it's maybe 5-10% more performance but for a guy like me who is building a rig for the first time I don't see the benefit of choosing a 2500K over a 3570K, apart from the fact that IB may end up bad overclockers.
cilonen
Member
(04-17-2012, 06:14 PM)
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Yup, still happy I didn't wait and went for a 2600k. Hopefully the next 'tick' (or is it 'tock'?) wrings out some more performance.
zoku88
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(04-17-2012, 06:17 PM)
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Do the K processors have VT-d this time?
Reikon
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(04-17-2012, 06:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by NeOak

If you got Core 2 stuff, yeah. The performance increase is noticeable. Phenoms II have more or less a little bit more performance than Core 2s, and that 1100T runs at 3.3Ghz.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5626/i...ore-i7-3770k/9

Not really, the Phenom II is competitive with Nehalem. So for a lot of things, it's about an the same as an Intel generation ahead of the Core 2 stuff.
Sethos
Banned
(04-17-2012, 06:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by cilonen

Yup, still happy I didn't wait and went for a 2600k. Hopefully the next 'tick' (or is it 'tock'?) wrings out some more performance.

This is a tick, next up is a tock.

I hope Haswell will blow us away.
Last edited by Sethos; 04-17-2012 at 06:35 PM.
theRizzle
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(04-17-2012, 06:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sethos

This is a tick, next up is a tock.

I hope Haswell will blow is away.

Ivy Bridge is a "Tock+", as in, their second "tock".
Sethos
Banned
(04-17-2012, 06:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by theRizzle

Ivy Bridge is a "Tock+", as in, their second "tock".

No it isn't, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock

IB is shrunk to 22nm, which means it's a Tick
The Boat
Member
(04-17-2012, 06:36 PM)
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I am so behind the times when it comes to computer hardware in general... I need to find some time to read up on things.
Monarch
Junior Member
(04-17-2012, 06:37 PM)
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Ivy Bridge is a Tick+ because of the revamped GPU part
theRizzle
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(04-17-2012, 06:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sethos

No it isn't, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock

IB is shrunk to 22nm, which means it's a Tick

Ya, I see that, but just because it's on Wikipedia doesn't necessarily make it accurate.

I could have sworn I saw a slide from an Intel presentation that had it listed as a Tock+, but I can't find it right now.

Either way, it seems that this is some kind of weird in-between chip that for some reason doesn't fit into their typical "Tick-Tock" structure.
surly
Banned
(04-17-2012, 06:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by theRizzle

Ya, I see that, but just because it's on Wikipedia doesn't necessarily make it accurate.

I could have sworn I saw a slide from an Intel presentation that had it listed as a Tock+, but I can't find it right now.

It's tick+.

zoku88
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(04-17-2012, 06:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by theRizzle

Ya, I see that, but just because it's on Wikipedia doesn't necessarily make it accurate.

I could have sworn I saw a slide from an Intel presentation that had it listed as a Tock+, but I can't find it right now.

Either way, it seems that this is some kind of weird in-between chip that for some reason doesn't fit into their typical "Tick-Tock" structure.

I think they called it a Tick+ or a Tock-ish Tick.

Because they have some architecture changes along with the shrink.
theRizzle
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(04-17-2012, 06:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by surly

It's tick+.


Ya, that's probably the one I saw, but misread it. Thanks.

Regardless, from those early previews this seems like it might be a bit of a letdown. Gonna be building probably in June and was hoping for better things from IB.
1-D_FTW
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(04-17-2012, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Monarch

What are you talking about ? In almost every benchs in the TD review, we see the 3570K ahead of the 2500K (even 2700K in certain cases) for less energy consumed. Sure it's maybe 5-10% more performance but for a guy like me who is building a rig for the first time I don't see the benefit of choosing a 2500K over a 3570K, apart from the fact that IB may end up bad overclockers.

The only things I give a hoot about. Gaming and power. I don't care about synthetic benchmarks for the irrelevant. It slightly nudged the 2500k in 3D Mark 2011, but was one frame slower in AVP. I'd call it a draw if ever there was one.

As for power it was 88/303 vs 90/305. So it was a whopping two watts more efficient during idle and load.

That's a pile of you know what for something that's a new die process and had all the rhetoric about 3D transistors.

EDIT: I'm not telling you to choose the 2500k over the 3570, just that's it's an absolutely worthless update from a performance POV. It's basically all about the IGP and notebooks it seems.
Last edited by 1-D_FTW; 04-17-2012 at 07:16 PM.
faceless007
AAA ETHER
(04-17-2012, 07:18 PM)
So it's basically a wash, with less overclocking headroom? How disappointing. Will SB chips still be available for a while or are they going to aggressively clear them out?
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
(04-17-2012, 07:22 PM)
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so if i want an integrated gfx laptop, is it time to choose intel over amd yet?
Karak
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(04-17-2012, 07:31 PM)
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Question about this. I have an i7920 oc'ed to 4.1. I am super happy with it. I am having a hard time identifying if this kind of thing would be a real upgrade or not.

Any help?
Hazaro
relies on auto-aim
(04-17-2012, 07:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by faceless007

So it's basically a wash, with less overclocking headroom? How disappointing. Will SB chips still be available for a while or are they going to aggressively clear them out?

So far it seems that way. We'll see how mass retail chips fare, almost always better.

Originally Posted by -COOLIO-

so if i want an integrated gfx laptop, is it time to choose intel over amd yet?

I think HD4000 and AMDs are about the same with Intel still a tad slower. Both are fine for integrated and Intel is still a faster CPU iirc.

Originally Posted by Karak

Question about this. I have an i7920 oc'ed to 4.1. I am super happy with it. I am having a hard time identifying if this kind of thing would be a real upgrade or not.

Any help?

Not worth the upgrade.
Smokey
Just ordered 2 Laker car flags on Amazon.com
(04-17-2012, 07:36 PM)
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dissapoint
Monarch
Junior Member
(04-17-2012, 07:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by 1-D_FTW

The only things I give a hoot about. Gaming and power. I don't care about synthetic benchmarks for the irrelevant. It slightly nudged the 2500k in 3D Mark 2011, but was one frame slower in AVP. I'd call it a draw if ever there was one.

As for power it was 88/303 vs 90/305. So it was a whopping two watts more efficient during idle and load.

That's a pile of you know what for something that's a new die process and had all the rhetoric about 3D transistors.

EDIT: I'm not telling you to choose the 2500k over the 3570, just that's it's an absolutely worthless update from a performance POV. It's basically all about the IGP and notebooks it seems.

I'm not sure it's relevant to judge Ivy Bridge CPUs performance in games based on a whopping one frame difference. Anyway, I agree with you, when it comes to upgrading it's not worth it if you're on SB. But let's see some reviews first, on retail chips, before making any final conclusion.
Last edited by Monarch; 04-17-2012 at 08:00 PM.
GhostRidah
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(04-17-2012, 08:02 PM)
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I am also one of the many who has been waiting with their q6600, cant wait to build my new rig this witner.
1-D_FTW
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(04-17-2012, 08:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Monarch

I'm not sure it's relevant to judge Ivy Bridge CPUs performance in games based on a whopping one frame difference. Anyway, I agree with you, when it comes to upgrading it's not worth it if you're on SB. But let's see some reviews first, on retail chips, before making any final conclusion.

I'm not sure what we're really arguing. It's not like Ivy Bridge is a different architecture. It's not going to perform worse than the thing it's replacing. It's just a colossal disappointment if anyone was holding off on a 2500k purchase for the past 6 months thinking it was going to give the 10 - 15 percent performance boost, 20 percent power reduction that was being claimed (due to die shrink and 3D transistors).
Gueras
Banned
(04-17-2012, 08:16 PM)
I have a core i5 750 its worth upgrade to 3770??
Monarch
Junior Member
(04-17-2012, 08:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by 1-D_FTW

I'm not sure what we're really arguing. It's not like Ivy Bridge is a different architecture. It's not going to perform worse than the thing it's replacing. It's just a colossal disappointment if anyone was holding off on a 2500k purchase for the past 6 months thinking it was going to give the 10 - 15 percent performance boost, 20 percent power reduction that was being claimed (due to die shrink and 3D transistors).

I'm in this position (all of my parts are ready minus the CPU) and I really hope IB won't be what it is now, i.e not a very good performer compared to SB.
chaosblade
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(04-17-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gueras

I have a core i5 750 its worth upgrade to 3770??

I'd wait until next time, there should be some actual performance improvements with Haswell.

Surprised at all the questions. IB was never about a big performance improvement in the first place, it's a die shrink(+trigate) and it was known that clock for clock would not significantly change months ago. The poorer OCing and worse-than-expected power consumption are the real disappointments here IMO.
UltimateIke
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(04-17-2012, 08:43 PM)
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So me buying a 2500k in November wasn't a mistake! I was really worried I was jumping the gun by not waiting for Ivy Bridge.

What's kind of funny is the same model 2500k is now $15 more expensive on Newegg than when I bought it 5 months ago...
Last edited by UltimateIke; 04-17-2012 at 09:03 PM.
soundahfekz
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(04-17-2012, 08:59 PM)
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Looks like ill be grabbing a 2500k instead if it's cheaper
LCGeek
formerly sane
(04-17-2012, 09:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by GhostRidah

I am also one of the many who has been waiting with their q6600, cant wait to build my new rig this witner.

I have two core 2 duo machines I've been looking to upgrade. With the new ati and nvidia cards plus this I can figure out something I really want to build to push my low end stuff up to my more modern hardware.
Doc Holliday
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(04-17-2012, 09:30 PM)
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Hmm so I should keep my I7 930 huh? Damn I wanted to join the Ivy bridge party :/
hwalker84
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(04-17-2012, 09:38 PM)
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I think later this year i'll still go with the Intel Core i7 3960X unless an extreme edition Ivy Bridge chip hits. I can get 50% off of Intel components.
Jomjom
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(04-17-2012, 09:45 PM)
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Damn it looks like the 2500K won't be dropping much in price due to the IB chips. There will still be a heavy demand for the 2500K with improvements that are so minimal.
Mr. Wonderful
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(04-17-2012, 11:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by chaosblade

I don't know, we're getting to the point where you can play games at decent resolutions and settings at playable framerates on IGPs.

I guess you could blame that on consoles lowering the bar for PC game requirements and it will all be moot when next-gen starts and requirements see a spike, but who knows?

Yeah, I agree. Though while Intel's GPUs have made huge leaps with Sandy and Ivy Bridge, they're still in line with Intel's GPU slogan of "We suck, just enough." Heck, look at the news stories that came out last week saying that each Haswell GPU will include 64MB of VRAM. While this is great, and will obviously lead to the reported huge performance gains, 64MB is really not enough for serious gaming.

Personally I'm hoping that combined with the use of DDR4 system RAM running at the same speed as the processor, any downside of only having 64MB of VRAM will be minimized.
Mrbob
how can the baaasheep
enjoy the shootbang?
(04-17-2012, 11:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by JaseC

77W TDP became 95W, apparently.

Yikes. Since Haswell will require a new mobo chipset, and I've held off through Sandy Bridge, guess I'll be using my Q9550 for another year.
Last edited by Mrbob; 04-17-2012 at 11:33 PM.
teh_pwn
"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
(04-17-2012, 11:11 PM)

Originally Posted by ·feist·

Ivy Bridge launch is going to be a hell of a thing. So many folks on a collision course with reality.

Not really for Desktops. Performance is barely faster than Sandy which came out over a year ago. The next design from Intel is next year. Ivy is mostly reduced power for mobile devices.

You can call it tick+ or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's basically sandy bridge.

Haswell next year will have a new CPU cache design and other improvements.
teh_pwn
"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
(04-17-2012, 11:16 PM)

Originally Posted by Chanser

Worthwhile upgrade over the Q6600?

If things are slow now, sure. But you don't really need to wait for Ivy. Sandy gets 98% the performance in theory, but with games it's going to be nearly impossible to tell the difference because most games are GPU limited.


Originally Posted by 1-D_FTW

I'm not sure what we're really arguing. It's not like Ivy Bridge is a different architecture. It's not going to perform worse than the thing it's replacing. It's just a colossal disappointment if anyone was holding off on a 2500k purchase for the past 6 months thinking it was going to give the 10 - 15 percent performance boost, 20 percent power reduction that was being claimed (due to die shrink and 3D transistors).


And to these people I recommend just going ahead and getting Sandy. Why wait another 3 months for availability and weird issues to be worked out like Sandy had.

With Sandy you can tell which motherboards are reliable, order it now, and find OC settings online. Won't have to worry about firmware updates, etc.
insert_username_here
Junior Member
(04-17-2012, 11:19 PM)
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Probably just going to wait for Haswell, seems to not be much of a difference from Sandy Bridge and my current Phenom II 1100t is holding up quite well.
Quadratic
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(04-17-2012, 11:24 PM)
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Sticking with my i7 920. I'll spend the money I was saving for IB on a GTX 680 4GB model or a similar non-reference design. Should tie me over for 2 more years I hope.
Last edited by Quadratic; 04-18-2012 at 12:06 AM.
claviertekky
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(04-17-2012, 11:25 PM)
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Still a LGA775 user here.

Things will be interesting once ARM processors go in the regular computing space.

No, you won't be able to play games, but for daily tasks, that may radically change the market.
insert_username_here
Junior Member
(04-17-2012, 11:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Quadratic

Sticking with my i7 920. I'll spend the money I was saving for IB on a GTX 680 GB model or a similar non-reference design. Should tie me over for 2 more years I hope.

Exactly what I was thinking, they both cost roughly the same but I'm sure to receive a massive boost in performance upgrading from my 5770, compared to upgrading my cpu to ivy bridge.
Last edited by insert_username_here; 04-17-2012 at 11:32 PM.
Leonsito
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(04-17-2012, 11:32 PM)
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So, the i5 3570k is the i5 2500k replacement? It's time to upgrade my old C2D E6600.
mugurumakensei
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(04-17-2012, 11:34 PM)
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looks like Nvidia was right. We're hitting a wall with die shrinks as far as cost reduction and efficiency go.
zoku88
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(04-17-2012, 11:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by mugurumakensei

looks like Nvidia was right. We're hitting a wall with die shrinks as far as cost reduction and efficiency go.

Well, hitting a wall at some point is evident, but..

these had a 30W (under load) power reduction. That is pretty significant...
teh_pwn
"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
(04-17-2012, 11:47 PM)

Originally Posted by mugurumakensei

looks like Nvidia was right. We're hitting a wall with die shrinks as far as cost reduction and efficiency go.

Eh, that's a different problem.

Intel has had this 2 year cycle:
1. New design, huge boost in performance
2. Die shrink, very small increase in performance

For several years now. Anyone that pays attention to the market (not attempting to be condescending, no shame in not being obsessed with this stuff outside of work) knows that Ivy was going to be Sandy + Die shrink + integrated GPU upgrade.

The die shrink's room for more transistors all went into the integrated GPU.

One of the "improvements" with ivy is DDR3-1600 MHz...but if you OC Sandy you can already get 2133 MHz I think so it's not really better.

And Sandy Bridge was a massive improvement. I'll be thrilled if Haswell is as big of an upgrade. But really the future of computing is going to have to incorporate dozens of CPU cores + GPU design, or something that can do both.
Last edited by teh_pwn; 04-17-2012 at 11:51 PM.
Ace 8095
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(04-17-2012, 11:52 PM)
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Disappointing considering I'm building a computer soon.
_woLf
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(04-17-2012, 11:57 PM)
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Reading into these super high temps the 3770K is getting....97*C with an H100? Are you kidding me?

edit: it seems to me like the 3550K can OC way easier than the 3770K, with much less problem with overheating. How weird...
Last edited by _woLf; 04-18-2012 at 12:43 AM.
faceless007
AAA ETHER
(04-17-2012, 11:58 PM)

Originally Posted by zoku88


these had a 30W (under load) power reduction. That is pretty significant...

According to whom? Tweaktown didn't get that but maybe they were an anomaly.

When is the official embargo up? Don't want to make a decision just on one set of benches.
kvn
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(04-17-2012, 11:59 PM)
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I'm going to upgrade. Still riding a Core 2 Duo E6400 and I guess that it's time to finally upgrade.
1-D_FTW
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(04-18-2012, 12:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by faceless007

According to whom? Tweaktown didn't get that but maybe they were an anomaly.

When is the official embargo up? Don't want to make a decision just on one set of benches.

The i7 did have an improvement close to that under load. It's the i5 that was the total bust.
nextgeneration
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(04-18-2012, 12:00 AM)
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I want to see benchmarks first before deciding. If you guys were me and had a choice, would you add another gtx 680 for SLI or instead of doing that, upgrade from an I7 975 Extreme to Ivy Bridge?

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