[·feist·]

I'm having hard times trying to understand your point. So far, all you posted proves what I'm saying. Higher IPC at same clocks, better OC (total clock and % from stock, as your own table reads), less power consumption. I will say more, C2Q have smaller die size too (214 mm² vs 258 mm², no IMC in C2Q tbh). Hell, Phenom II have a die size and power consumption closer to i7 Nehalem, but without the performance. Phenom II x4 tops at 4ghz OC talking about 24/7 in x64 2x2Gb or more setups, you can see Q9650 over 4,4Ghz. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2819/9 Phenom II was about price, not about tech.

I know what you mean, and I didn't intend to veer off topic, either. That was why I posted that link (which links to over a dozen reviews), instead of flooding the thread with walls of text, and charts that aren't relevant to the topic.

You originally brought up three pillars of futility. I only wanted to clarify that two of the three weren't quite right. Even with the overall performance discrepancy, you could be overlooking the productivity tasks where the AMDs matched, or beat, comparable Intels.


Power Consumption - Five results from the link I posted.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/16147/12

http://www.techspot.com/review/137-a...20/page13.html

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Enter...4-940/?page=10

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu..._13.html#sect0

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpu...-920-review/13



X4 Overclocking - First five Google results, all on air (including stock cooler).

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/...-p2-980oc2.jpg
"On our sample that meant 4.2GHz with the stock cooler. Given enough voltage hitting 4GHz+ on air isn't a problem."


http://www.guru3d.com/imageview.php?image=30237
"Here's an overclock at 4263 MHz 100% stable. We boosted Voltage towards 1.575v in the BIOS and simply applied a multiplier of 21 versus a small bus speed increase of 203 MHz. Temperatures are now much higher, but really acceptable. Again, and I can't stress this enough -- we are only using a 35 USD air based Vendetta cooler here, nothing fancy."


http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/Phenom.../images/oc.jpg
"The end result was 4.21 GHz, which is about 100 MHz below what Phenom II X4 975 achieved when it was reviewed, but still a nice result for Deneb core. Results vary from sample to sample, but we have seen most C3 Deneb cores pass 4 GHz maximum clock."


http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/im..._X4_980_43.jpg
"This is going to sound repetitive for those who have read our previous Phenom II reviews, but were once again were able to achieve a new highest stable Phenom II clock speed. 4254Mhz at 1.45V with enough stability to pass 3 hours of Prime 95 Blend, one hour's worth of LinX, and a few wPrime and SuperPI runs is quite impressive. We were able to squeeze an extra 74Mhz from this chip compared to the X4 975."


http://www.overclockersclub.com/vima..._x4_980/oc.jpg
"For the Phenom II X4 980 I was able to reach a top speed of 4.36GHz which came out to have a multiplier of 20.5x and a reference clock speed of 212MHz at 1.5v."

These aren't magical chips, either. Numerous X4 955/965/970/975s have eclipsed the 4GHz mark. Two of those quotes make note of that. Overall, a large number of 45nm Phenom II/i5 7xx/i7 8xx/i7 9xx tend to fall within the 3.8-4.2GHz range for standard 24/7. One of my systems still houses a 24/7 Q9550 @ 4.2GHz on air. The 4.4GHz C2Q you brought up isn't any more indicative of what most get, than the few Phenom IIs which have also hit that clock. Percentage of overclock headroom doesn't exactly mean much when you arrive at the similar results. Look at how i7 920s top out compared to higher end i7 9XXs, or how the higher stock clocked Intels top out compared to the AMDs (of similar stock frequency).

[·feist·]

i5 3570k + Maximus V Gene, here I come. E: Wait, the 3570K doesn't have VT-d, but the standard 3570 does? What the fuck, Intel?

That's one of the artificial limitations you have with Sandy Bridge. Can't have you pushing big OCs on a client part, with VT-d. Unfortunately, you'll have to pay extra for X79, or an LGA 1155 Xeon for that.

Maximus V Gene = hotness. Once again embarrassing full size boards.

So the top IB is the i7-3770k correct? I am moving from an old core 2 duo. Will we be able to purchase from newegg/amazon tomorrow if the rumors are true?

For now, the 3770K is the top IB. That's a massive upgrade in about every conceivable way.

You can pick one up on day one. No AMD 7970 paper launches here. People have already broken street date. It seems like you may be in the US. If you're at all close to a Micro Center, you'll likely want to buy your 3770K from them.

http://www.microcenter.com/at_the_stores/index.html

Unless you find an amazing deal elsewhere, of course.

Anyway, returning to OP, as anyone said yet, now we know why IB have that poor temps under OC with that unsoldered HIS. Clever move from Intel trying to set an higher gap between sockets. Not cool.

You're right about their efforts to further differentiate the sockets/SKUs, though this seems to be more of a profits-based measure than anything. It won't change OEM sales, and most users won't notice. Low end Core 2 Duo sales would be the same even if they didn't have soldering.

The good review sites should breakdown the different causes of heat. They may even address what Intel's plans are for future tweaks. It's all about Haswell, and the 22nm Xeons... oh, and the difficult path to 10nm...

[_woLf]

That's one of the artificial limitations you have with Sandy Bridge. Can't have you pushing big OCs on a client part, with VT-d. Unfortunately, you'll have to pay extra for X79, or an LGA 1155 Xeon for that. Maximus V Gene = hotness. Once again embarrassing full size boards. For now, the 3770K is the top IB. That's a massive upgrade in about every conceivable way. You can pick one up on day one. No AMD 7970 paper launches here. People have already broken street date. It seems like you may be in the US. If you're at all close to a Micro Center, you'll likely want to buy your 3770K from them. http://www.microcenter.com/at_the_stores/index.html Unless you find an amazing deal elsewhere, of course. You're right about their efforts to further differentiate the sockets/SKUs, though this seems to be more of a profits-based measure than anything. It won't change OEM sales, and most users won't notice. Low end Core 2 Duo sales would be the same even if they didn't have soldering. The good review sites should breakdown the different causes of heat. They may even address what Intel's plans are for future tweaks. It's all about Haswell, and the 22nm Xeons... oh, and the difficult path to 10nm...

I really don't even know if Intel will try for 10nm at this point. The problems they're having here seem to go right along with what Nvidia said.

EDIT: Intel rep making it sound like Ivys will NOT be available tomorrow.

[ParityBit]

I really don't even know if Intel will try for 10nm at this point. The problems they're having here seem to go right along with what Nvidia said. EDIT: Intel rep making it sound like Ivys will NOT be available tomorrow.

I hope that's not true, or that rep is wrong (is it a rep?) Maybe Amazon or Microcenter has it then.

Man between waiting for my CPU to come out and my GPU to get in stock that I can buy, it makes waiting so much harder. All these boxes of computer parts waiting to be assembled!

[_woLf]

Yeah, I'm not appreciating how unhelpful Intel is being with all of this. They wonder how people thought tomorrow was the day, when it was intel's own video that started the rumor.

[LiquidMetal14]

Can I use these new CPU's on my P67 MB?

[UltimateIke]

Can I use these new CPU's on my P67 MB?

Yes. Though you obviously can't use the integrated video and a few other new-to-Ivy Bridge features Z68/P67 boards don't support.

You may need to check to see if your brand MB requires a BIOS update too.

[DonasaurusRex]

looks like the IB is power and temp savings, quick sync improvements (yay) and much improved IGP performance. The CPU side seems like a fine tuned SB. Well done Intel , but the hardware nut in me is dying to see some Haswell rumors/specs :D.

[LiquidMetal14]

Yes. Though you obviously can't use the integrated video and a few other features Z68 and P67 boards don't support. You may need to check to see if your brand requires a BIOS update too.

This pleases me. This time next year, I will be poling GAF on what the best upgrade from a 2500k would be. If need be, I will get a new MB, CPU, and PSU. I know I will certainly need at least a slightly better PSU.

[_woLf]

The Verge says they're coming today (Monday).

It's almost time :)

[UltimateIke]

Assuming it is all correct (it looks right by my knowledge), the Wikipedia page seems a good source if anyone has any questions about the different Sandy and Ivy Bridge chipsets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1155

[Edvardelis]

The Verge says they're coming today (Monday). It's almost time :)

Well as of now New Egg/Microcenter/Amazon all come up blank when I search. Maybe later today?

Edit:
One of the links claims "noon", but no mention of timezone.

[ParityBit]

is it the i7 3770k that is the top of the line version?

[UltimateIke]

is it the i7 3770k that is the top of the line version?

Yes.

[Shanks]

People are talking about heat issues and how these chips may run hot. Will the ULV mobile line run hotter than Sandy Bridge? I thought the die shrink would make it run a bit cooler due to its smaller size. Is it too soon to tell?

[GoingGreen]

Yes. Though you obviously can't use the integrated video and a few other new-to-Ivy Bridge features Z68/P67 boards don't support. You may need to check to see if your brand MB requires a BIOS update too.

What!??? This board that I just bought won't work with Ivy Bridge!??

ASUS LGA 1155 - Z68 - PCIe 3.0 and UEFI BIOS Intel Z68 ATX DDR3 2200 LGA 1155 Motherboards P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o01_s00_i03


I can't use the onboard HD Graphics 4000 either!??

[Brettison]

Hey GAFers if I'm going to upgrade my old Core2 finally but have always been a mid range guy, do I NEED the 3770k or honestly would a 3570k be perfectly fine as well and I can save the extra $100? Seems like I'm getting half the threads and a slightly smaller cache.

I'm just worried about not having a fully 8 threaded CPU if I plan on keeping this for a long time like I did with my Core 2. Saving that $100 would be nice though if I don't need to spend it.

[surly]

What!??? This board that I just bought won't work with Ivy Bridge!??

It will. Support for IB CPUs was added in the 3202 BIOS update.

I can't use the onboard HD Graphics 4000 either!??

Yes you can.

[UltimateIke]

What!??? This board that I just bought won't work with Ivy Bridge!?? ASUS LGA 1155 - Z68 - PCIe 3.0 and UEFI BIOS Intel Z68 ATX DDR3 2200 LGA 1155 Motherboards P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o01_s00_i03 I can't use the onboard HD Graphics 4000 either!??

I may have worded my response strangely. Z68 boards will support Ivy Bridge if they have the correct BIOS updates. You can also use the onboard video.

The reason LiquidMetal's P67 board can't use the integrated video is because those were originally made for Sandy Bridge CPUs that don't have IGPs. It has no HDMI/Video Out ports.

[GoingGreen]

It will. Support for IB CPUs was added in the 3202 BIOS update. Yes you can.

Maybe a dumb question; but how will I be able to update the BIOS on a IB chip if those BIOS updates haven't been applied to my new board?

I may have worded my response strangely. Z68 boards will support Ivy Bridge if they have the correct BIOS updates. You can also use the onboard video. The reason LiquidMetal's P67 board can't use the integrated video is because those were originally made for Sandy Bridge CPUs that don't have IGPs. It has no HDMI/Video Out ports.

You really scared me this morning. Thanks for the reply

[Mr Swine]

The Verge says they're coming today (Monday). It's almost time :)

I hope it's true! My computer has to give itself a Prrrrrrrrrrromotion! Robotnik style :D

[BrokenEchelon]

So excited.

I love progress so much.

[Sethos]

Maybe a dumb question; but how will I be able to update the BIOS on a IB chip if those BIOS updates haven't been applied to my new board?

Several ways but you need a CPU to get into BIOS.

Now you need the magical world of Google or borrow a CPU from a friend.

[GoingGreen]

Several ways but you need a CPU to get into BIOS. Now you need the magical world of Google or borrow a CPU from a friend.

Wait... I'm still screwed?

[Monarch]

I'm in the same situation as GoingGreen's, got the same mobo, just waiting for Ivy Bridge to come out. But I don't own a SB CPU...
Can't we just flash the mobo BIOS with a usb key with the right BIOS revision in it (without any CPU plugged in) ?

Please tell me yes :(

[UltimateIke]

Wait... I'm still screwed?

Hmmmm...I didn't think about that. I found this on a page about an AMD update, and I'm going to guess the same applies here. I doubt your board is going to ship with the required BIOS update. :(

"If you don't have an older CPU that will work in the motherboard initially, there are a couple of options. First, you can take it to a local PC repair place and pay them to flash the BIOS. The second option is to see if someone you know has a CPU that will work and borrow it to flash the BIOS on the motherboard."

I'm in the situation as GoingGreen's, got the same mobo, just waiting for Ivy Bridge to come out. But I don't own a SB CPU... Can't we just flash the mobo BIOS with a usb key with the right BIOS revision in it (without any CPU plugged in) ? Please tell me yes :(

No. It won't boot without a CPU.

[Sethos]

I'm in the same situation as GoingGreen's, got the same mobo, just waiting for Ivy Bridge to come out. But I don't own a SB CPU... Can't we just flash the mobo BIOS with a usb key with the right BIOS revision in it (without any CPU plugged in) ? Please tell me yes :(

Nope :P

HOWEVER, guys, you might be able to install the CPU and the heatsink, boot up and do the flashing - BIOS won't recognize the CPU but it might still boot. That is however experimental and have heard of cases where using an unsupported CPU to BIOS flash to make it supported works. Again, very experimental and it's certainly not a sure deal.

[Monarch]

Ok, thanks for the insight.
We've got two solutions now:
-Hope the mobo comes with an updated BIOS (which could be a possibility since those mobo were marketed as Ivy Bridge ready)
-Find a SB chip or try Sethos' solution

[UltimateIke]

Ok, thanks for the insight. We've got two solutions now: -Hope the mobo comes with an updated BIOS (which could be a possibility since those mobo were marketed as Ivy Bridge ready) -Find a SB chip or try Sethos' solution

If you and GoingGreen have the same motherboard, the Amazon page has this to say:

Product Description The ASUS P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 motherboard features the Intel Z68 chipset supporting the 2nd Generation Intel Core i7/Core i5/Core i3 Processors. The all-new GEN3 series is fully ready for true PCIe 3.0, built to be future-proof with native BIOS support for 22nm next-gen Intel processors as well as PCIe 3.0 switching IC for SLI support. ASUS’ ground breaking UEFI BIOS simplifies platform settings for users with an EZ tuning mode.

If the bolded text is true, you might not have to worry about anything. But we'll see. Fingers crossed! Maybe you could shoot ASUS's tech support an email to see what they have to say?

[surly]

I'm in the same boat as you guys above. I have an Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z/Gen3 board which I bought because I was told it was Ivy Bridge compatible and on the box is a sticker that says "Future Intel 22nm CPU Ready".

Asus technical support wasn't very helpful. I called their helpline and they said that they do not do tech support for motherboards in the UK over the phone. The guy I spoke to told me to use the online support form, but I told him that it requires me to enter in a bunch of details that I don't know (BIOS version, for example). He told me to just leave those things blank, except the form won't submit when I do that.

[Monarch]

If you and GoingGreen have the same motherboard, the Amazon page has this to say: If the bolded text is true, you might not have to worry about anything. But we'll see. Fingers crossed! Maybe you could shoot ASUS's tech support an email to see what they have to say?

Nice find ! We'll see. I bought mine in February (or March), I'm still afraid it doesn't have the right BIOS. Just a few days and i'll find out :p

[Sethos]

"built to be future-proof with native BIOS support" is also pretty ambiguous, could mean out-of-box support or support to upgrade the BIOS, making it compatible. That's how I read it anyways.

I cross my finger for you guys that it'll work without a hitch.

[phosphor112]

I really don't even know if Intel will try for 10nm at this point. The problems they're having here seem to go right along with what Nvidia said. EDIT: Intel rep making it sound like Ivys will NOT be available tomorrow.

10nm probably won't happen. Costs too and there is talk about how making the transistors too small will create a risk of them becoming unreliable.

Still debating on whether or not I'll finally upgrade my PC after 6 years... It's become too costly for me to keep up.

[ParityBit]

Hitting F5 on Newegg and Amazon every once in a while. I am guessing if it does show it will be noon-ish PST?

[UltimateIke]

I'm in the same boat as you guys above. I have an Asus Maximus IV Gene-Z/Gen3 board which I bought because I was told it was Ivy Bridge compatible and on the box is a sticker that says "Future Intel 22nm CPU Ready". Asus technical support wasn't very helpful. I called their helpline and they said that they do not do tech support for motherboards in the UK over the phone. The guy I spoke to told me to use the online support form, but I told him that it requires me to enter in a bunch of details that I don't know (BIOS version, for example). He told me to just leave those things blank, except the form won't submit when I do that.

Tech "support" being characteristically unsupportive, I see. That "no UK support over-the-phone" line is a load of BS.

"built to be future-proof with native BIOS support" is also pretty ambiguous, could mean out-of-box support or support to upgrade the BIOS, making it compatible. That's how I read it anyways. I cross my finger for you guys that it'll work without a hitch.

Yeah, definitely ambiguous. I too wondered if it could actually mean supported with a future update. It's a shady way to advertise it.

[surly]

Tech "support" being characteristically unsupportive, I see. That "no UK support over-the-phone" line is a load of BS.

The UK guy gave me the number for US support, so I just tried calling that. It was just as bad. The guy first said that the chip I'm planning to use (3770K) is not the right socket for use with the board, which is wrong, then after 5 minutes of explaining the situation to him he gave me a case number and asked if there was anything else he could help me with, even though he didn't actually help me with the problem I was calling about.

You can buy BIOS chips flashed with the latest update on eBay for £10 so I think that's what I'm gonna do. Is this a good idea? Also, is it easy to get the old chip out? There are BIOS extractor tools like this: -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BIOS-extra...item27a7308bf1

But do I need something like that, or can I just pull it out with my fingers? I'm not at home at the moment, so I can't give it a go.

[mrklaw]

when do we expect mainstream laptops to be widely availble?

[UltimateIke]

The UK guy gave me the number for US support, so I just tried calling that. It was just as bad. The guy first said that the chip I'm planning to use (3770K) is not the right socket for use with the board, which is wrong, then after 5 minutes of explaining the situation to him he gave me a case number and asked if there was anything else he could help me with, even though he didn't actually help me with the problem I was calling about. You can buy BIOS chips flashed with the latest update on eBay for £10 so I think that's what I'm gonna do. Is this a good idea? Also, is it easy to get the old chip out? There are BIOS extractor tools like this: - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BIOS-extra...item27a7308bf1 But do I need something like that, or can I just pull it out with my fingers? I'm not at home at the moment, so I can't give it a go.

That is something I've never attempted, so I looked it up and found this page.

http://www.badflash.com/findbios.htm

If the chip isn't soldered on, they say you can just pry it out. Seems risky to me. But again, I've never tried it so someone else would be better suited to say yea or nay. :/

[surly]

That is something I've never attempted, so I looked it up and found this page. http://www.badflash.com/findbios.htm It the chip isn't soldered on, they say you can just pry it out. Seems risky to me. But again, I've never tried it so someone else would be better suited to say yea or nay. :/

The BIOS chip that my board uses is one like this: -



And it's in its own socket, so it looks like it should just pull out, but I've never actually tried it.

[UltimateIke]

The BIOS chip that my board uses is one like this: - And it's in its own socket, so it looks like it should just pull out, but I've never actually tried it.

Reading that site (and its following pages) just makes it seem like you have to be super careful to not bend the pins when removing the old chip, and be super careful you reinsert the new chip in the correct orientation.

I'd think it's on the list of possible solutions.

It also says, "You MUST discharge your CMOS before restarting you computer. There is normally a jumper or shorting pads to do this and you will need your motherboard manual to determine where this jumper is and where to move the jumper. Check our FAQ's page if you find no jumper. It is usually called CLCMOS or CLRTC. Failure to do this can corrupt your bios chip requiring a reflash to fix it." Make sure you read up or get some tips before you try it! Things like this I would never think to do.

[GoingGreen]

If I can't boot up with the IB processor; I'll return the motherboard; which would you recommend getting?

[UltimateIke]

If I can't boot up with the IB processor; I'll return the motherboard; which would you recommend getting?

Have you looked at any of the new Z77 boards? They should have IB support right out of the box, unless I'm mistaken.

[Sethos]

If I can't boot up with the IB processor; I'll return the motherboard; which would you recommend getting?

Check out Asus' Z77 page, pick something that suits you, hey presto.

( Works with any manufacture you like, I'm an Asus fan )

[Icarus]

What's next in the roadmap after the 3770? Something this fall?

[brotkasten]

1 hour and 20 minutes till the reviews are online.

[_woLf]

Official Intel PR is up.

Still no date, just "this month". Thanks for being absolutely no help for those of us planning new systems, Intel.

[brotkasten]

Boom:

Anandtech:
The Intel Ivy Bridge (Core i7 3770K) Review
Mobile Ivy Bridge and ASUS N56VM Preview

[abunai]

Review time!

guru3d
hexus
hardOCP
Vortez
xbitlabs
tweaktown
anandtech
hardware canucks
pcper

[sk3]

Does anyone say whether it can be sold today or next week? Or do we just have to wait and see if some retailer decides to start selling?

[brotkasten]

Does anyone say whether it can be sold today or next week? Or do we just have to wait and see if some retailer decides to start selling?

Some retailers in Europe have them in stock and are selling them.