[·feist·]

More on the solderless IHS topic in a bit, including test results.

And now the obvious question: I'm making PC build currently so should i get a IB setup or a SB setup? Depends on how much you overclock. People pushing for the 4.8-5.0 range should stick to SB.

And even then, IB will mostly match SB performance at a lower clock, but things like luck of the draw aren't as proven as Sandy Bridge. With SB you get a top level CPU, on a more mature process. IB offers further CPU, iGP and motherboard benefits over SB. It happens to be on a new process, and transistor type which laying the groundwork for future Intels.

You guys sure know how to put the fear of God into people looking to purchase an IB. Yeah, doesn't look so hot.

The IHS removals? No biggie. It wasn't that long ago that Intel and AMD sold CPUs without an IHS. Recent generations have also had a mix, where certain SKUs had soldered IHSs, while others didn't.





Ivy Bridge CPUs, 28nm graphics cards facing shortages right on launch
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120423PD206.html

Although Intel is ready to launch and sell its upcoming Ivy Bridge-based processors soon, shipments of the processor are estimated to be lower than expected with the possible driver being either low capacity or yield rates, and the situation is forcing Intel to adjust its processor shipment proportions for notebook and desktop platforms, according to sources from PC players, which added that Nvidia and AMD are also facing shortage issues for their 28nm graphics cards. Although Intel will start selling its Ivy Bridge processor on April 29, the limited supply of Ivy Bridge processors means it is not expected to be able to satisfy downstream PC vendors' strong demand. In May and June, Intel is already to launch 13 processors including Core i7 3770K, Core i7-3770, Core i5-3570K and Core i3-3240 and will launch 10 more models under its Core i5, Core i3 and Pentium series. more...

[·feist·]

Reviews, in the order they were posted.

Boom: Anandtech: The Intel Ivy Bridge (Core i7 3770K) Review Mobile Ivy Bridge and ASUS N56VM Preview

Review time! guru3d hexus hardOCP Vortez xbitlabs tweaktown anandtech hardware canucks pcper

[Tech Report — Ivy Bridge on air: The Core i7-3770K overclocked on four motherboards (main review here: http://techreport.com/articles.x/22835)] According to techreport when you raise the voltage past the stock, power consumption and the amount of heat generated go through the roof. They managed to get it to 4.9Ghz on an air-cooled ASUS motherboard. I think you'd need a custom water cooling system to get that high.

PCIE controller is in the CPU in Intel since Lynnfield, nothing to do with motherboard. If you want 2x16 you need x79 at socket 2011 Reviews UP! http://www.anandtech.com/show/5771/t...7-3770k-review http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...pu-review.html http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...770k,3181.html http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...roduction.html http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/artic...PU-Review/1537 http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/467...iew/index.html

Thanks :) Main points: 4.4Ghz on ~1.10V seems to be norm, any higher is hard or gets super hot and draws tons of power. Much worse than SB. About 5% faster roughly for easy numbers No idle wattage savings, ok load savings *Useful:

A leading swedish PC-forum called Sweclockers have reviewed 3770K and 3570K. The review is in swedish but there are many diagrams and such (3d mark, cinebench, pcmark, game tests etc.) which I believe anyone can grasp. http://www.sweclockers.com/recension...-core-i5-3570k

More:

General Reviews

http://www.au-ja.de/review-intel-cor...bridge-1.phtml
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...=900&Itemid=63
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/201...-3770k-review/
http://www.bjorn3d.com/articles/Inte...idge/2214.html
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...ud-expect.aspx
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/p...el-ivy-bridge/
http://www.expreview.com/19223.html
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...er-performance
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...rmance_Review/
http://www.hardcoreware.net/core-i7-...vy-bridge-cpu/
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/863-...22nm-test.html
http://be.hardware.info/reviews/2678...-bridge-review
http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/2678...-bridge-review
http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/2680...-bridge-review (English)
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php...5-modelle.html
http://www.hartware.net/review_1473.html
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Intel...cessor-Review/
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/intel_i...core_i7_3770k/
http://www.hwbox.gr/reviews/16498-in...0k-review.html
http://lab501.ro/procesoare-chipsetu...-core-i7-3770k
http://lanoc.org/review/pc-hardware/...70k-ivy-bridge
http://www.legionhardware.com/articl..._bridge,1.html
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1914/1/
http://www.lostcircuits.com/mambo//i...d=105&Itemid=1
http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/ar...7-3770K-Review
http://www.maximum-tech.net/intel-co...-review-12192/
http://www.missingremote.com/review/...0k-motherboard
http://www.motherboards.org/review/i...-core-i7-3770k
http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/mo...php?itemid=723
http://www.oclab.ru/topic/obzor-mate...-core-i7-3770k
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/c...3770k_review/1
http://www.overclockersclub.com/revi..._corei7_3770k/
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/23/in...-the-i7-3770k/
http://www.pc-max.de/artikel/prozess...770k-prozessor
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...i7_3770k&num=1
http://www.techspot.com/review/523-i...core-i7-3770k/
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...770k,3181.html
http://twojepc.pl/artykuly.php?id=te..._k_podkrecanie
http://vr-zone.com/articles/ivy-brid...own/15637.html



Specific Reviews & Insight

Undervolting and Overclocking on Ivy Bridge
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5763/u...-on-ivy-bridge
Intel's Ivy Bridge: An HTPC Perspective
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5773/i...pc-perspective
Ivy Bridge - Part II - Study of integrated graphics
http://lab501.ro/placi-video/ivy-bri...icii-integrate
Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge GPU Performance
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/I...vy_Bridge_GPU/
Ivy Bridge vs Sandy Bridge @ 4.8GHz Quad-Core CPU Showdown
http://vr-zone.com/articles/ivy-brid...own/15637.html
Intel's Ivy Bridge CPUs from Ultrabooks to HPC clusters - what stuff goes where?
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-s-...re-/15640.html


edit:

Recommendations / Lessons: Clock for clock, Ivy Bridge (which is a "Tick" on Intel's roadmap) does offer performance improvements over Sandy Bridge, albeit mostly in single digit percentages. This is good news as the new processors will directly replace the old ones at roughly the same price points. From the large pool of CPUs that we have tested/binned, Ivy Bridge uses 25% less power on average clock for clock due to the lower voltages required (in this case Sandy's 1.48v to Ivy's 1.27v). Ivy Bridge's on-die temperatures (TJ Max of 105 degrees celsius) are a lot higher than Sandy Bridge, indicating possible high electrical leakage on the new process or a different measurement method. Note: Temperatures != Power, although there is some correlation. Ivy Bridge is a (subzero) overclocker's wet dream, able to hit core frequencies near 7GHz with no cold bugs (unless motherboard induced). In general, Z77 boards are better made and engineered (shorter electrical traces, better component placement) than their P67/Z68 predecessors, doing away with niggling BIOS firmware bugs and dodgy VRM implementations. According to roadmaps, Ivy Bridge is the end of the road for Socket 1155 (next year's Intel "Haswell" CPUs will on Socket 1150), head for Socket 2011 if you need more than quad cores/16 PCIe lanes. X79 is a better platform than Z77 if you need more than 16 PCIe lanes for 3-way/4-way GPU operation without the use of latency inducing switches. If you already have a Sandy Bridge 2500K/2600K/2700K, stick with it as there is hardly any tangible reason to fork out US$212-$313 for a minor upgrade.

[artist]

I'm good with my i7 2600k, maybe next year.

Looks like a downgrade compared to a 2600k. Runs much hotter, and its efficiency compared to the 2600k doesn't seem stable over every test.

Brofist bros. Looks like we can sit this one out easily. Waiting for the next tock, hopefully Intel will deliver.

[·feist·]

Follow up on these IHS-related posts:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=143
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=283
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=295


Tech Report gets Intel to confirm two of the primary causes I mentioned earlier.



Why is Ivy Bridge so hot and bothered?
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22859

If you read our Ivy Bridge coverage carefully, you'll know that we observed some rather high temperatures when overclocking the Core i7-3770K. With a single-fan air tower, our chip ran at a reasonable 50-60°C when clocked to 4.4-4.5GHz at its default voltage. However, when we pushed to 4.9GHz on 1.35V, the temperature soared past 100°C. Other reviews have observed similarly scorching temperatures, so it's not just our sample. As we noted earlier this week, the Core i7-3770K's power consumption increases dramatically when it's pushed to 4.9GHz—as it should, given the proportional relationship between CPU power consumption, frequency, and the square of the voltage. The additional power is dissipated as heat, which contributes to those high temperatures. The question is: why does Ivy appear to reach higher temps when overclocked than Sandy Bridge? more...

Intel IHS Lapping and Removal For LGA775 CPU's
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/402/2/

Sandy Bridge - 2nd Gen Intel® Core™ Processor, LGA1155 Socket: Thermal Guide http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...ket-guide.html Ivy Bridge - Desktop 3rd Generation Intel® Core™ Processor Family and LGA1155 Socket - Thermal Mechanical Specifications and Design Guidelines http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...ket-guide.html

Dead, but soldered i7 965 EE:

boblemagnifique:

Dead, but soldered i5 2500K:

mean6: As you can see in the pic, the cpu die is still attached to the IHS.

Live, solderless IB. Notice makeshift blue shim for die protection.

Shamino: they were right about non soldered TIM temps are not as good with IHS without exertion of force by ILM on the core but with good thermal paste and remounted IHS, temps are better and may bring the CPU to cold bug

4.9GHz IB, was only able to clock 50MHz higher w/o IHS. Third pick is afterwards, when he added a protective shim from a GPU:

korrrhonen: http://www.sf3d.fi/forum/viewtopic.p...f95c6e161#p410 http://www.sf3d.fi/forum/viewtopic.p...f95c6e161#p482

This user user decided to de-lid his i7 3770K, based on the Overclockers.com link found at the top of this post.

He tested at 4.5GHz (1.2v) with and without the IHS, and at 4.8GHz (~1.4v) without the IHS. Most of you won't be able to view the pics at the forum link, so I'll have to post them here... further increasing the size of this post...

royalk: Test platform: CPU：Intel Core i7-3770K Memory: PCEVA Extreme Kit DDR3-2133 7-10-7 Motherboard: MSI Z77A-GD65 Video card: MSI R6570 MD1GD3 Hard drives: Plextor PX-128M2P Power supply: Enermax Revolution 85+1050W Radiators: Noctua NH-D14 Room temperature: 28 ° c Grease: Prolimatech PK-1 (10.2/mK) 4.8GHz

[Hazaro]

So it seems like delidding doesn't really help.
Ugh.

At least it runs fine on 1.1V and 4.4Ghz, that's the important part for most consumers.

[ParityBit]

Has anyone decided to get a SB instead of an IB?

[brotkasten]

Has anyone decided to get a SB instead of an IB?

I did. I bought a used 2600K with 8 GB RAM for 230. already pretested and runs at 4.5 GHz with 1.28v. Average OC, but hey, it's an i7 instead of the i5 I actually wanted to buy and still cheaper than the 3570K I wanted to get, so why not.

[ParityBit]

I did. I bought a used 2600K with 8 GB RAM for 230. already pretested and runs at 4.5 GHz with 1.28v. Average OC, but hey, it's an i7 instead of the i5 I actually wanted to buy and still cheaper than the 3570K I wanted to get, so why not.

I have a core 2 duo so...yeah :). I still think I am going for an IB 3770k for my new rig.

[brotkasten]

I have a core 2 duo so...yeah :). I still think I am going for an IB 3770k for my new rig.

I'm still using my launch Q6600, but I don't really see the benefit for me to get an IB over SB. For the price of the i5 IB I'm getting an i7 SB + RAM, so it's the better deal for me. Not a fair comparison, since I bought used, but still. The Maximus V will make it great, though.

[Kadey]

Yeah. I have my 2500k at 4.4ghz. So getting a 3770k and overclocking to that wouldn't be so much problematic? I do need more video encoding prowess so.

[surly]

Has anyone decided to get a SB instead of an IB?

I'm contemplating it. I really don't know what to do. It seems that IB gives you a slight performance boost, but then SB gives you better overclocking performance which maybe negates the reason for buying an IB chip. Right now I'm probably going to be buying a 3770K, but I'm open to being swayed into buying a SB chip instead.

[Hazaro]

Yeah. I have my 2500k at 4.4ghz. So getting a 3770k and overclocking to that wouldn't be so much problematic? I do need more video encoding prowess so.

A 3770K to 4.4Ghz shouldn't be a problem. But you could also get a used 2600K for less and do the same clocks for 5% less speed. Up to you.

[ParityBit]

I'm contemplating it. I really don't know what to do. It seems that IB gives you a slight performance boost, but then SB gives you better overclocking performance which maybe negates the reason for buying an IB chip. Right now I'm probably going to be buying a 3770K, but I'm open to being swayed into buying a SB chip instead.

As of right now, the only Overclocking I _think_ I am going to do is based on what my mobo does (P8Z77-V Deluxe) I feel the same way though.

[PerZona]

I'm contemplating it. I really don't know what to do. It seems that IB gives you a slight performance boost, but then SB gives you better overclocking performance which maybe negates the reason for buying an IB chip. Right now I'm probably going to be buying a 3770K, but I'm open to being swayed into buying a SB chip instead.

I feel exactly the same as you...:(

[sk3]

Despite being two days away there isn't a peep from any of the retailers. I'm thinking of going to the local MicroCenter on Sunday but I have no idea if they'll even have any in stock or if they'd sell out by the time I got there...

This is what I will be doing. They've had a ton of time to stock these things, I've seen a couple reports of stores having these even before LAST sunday. I don't think there will be any shortages, and Intel has always said 29th 29th 29th, so that shit better be on sale when they open the doors sunday morning.

Microcenter is the only place by me that sells this sort of stuff, so its them or newegg.

[dr. apocalipsis]

Agreed, though I wasn't the one stating misinformation, and presenting it as if it were in some way absolute. And, no, neither are my counterpoints. That's also clear. I've posted several links disputing your remarks, and you've chosen to disavow them, make claims of suicide runs, and added qualifiers that have nothing to do with your initial three-point claim, and the fact that it was flawed. It wasn't even necessary to venture into Bulldozer air/water clocks, or extreme cooling of different Intel/AMD CPU generations to show that. Trying to later on modify things with points such as percentage of overclock, or performance per watt, doesn't change your original blanket statement, or my reply to it.

Ok. I will start by the end. Now I get your point. You are just lying, trying to manipulate and misinforming.

1. - Yorkfield performs better than Deneb. You agree. Closed point.

2. - Yorkfield overclocks better than Deneb. Both raw and percentage over stock.

I posted several Q9650 over 4,4Ghz, at safe VCores, full stable under stress tools.

Let's see what you posted again:

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=906016
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=905898
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=907125

From the first link you posted, half of them are fake results rejected by CPUZ. Not even by a stress program like Prime, occt or IBT; by CPUZ. That means user was cheating or faking results.

Tell me, did you read what you posted or are you trying to cheat me too?

Now let's see results CPUZ have no problems with. Not meaning it's a stable OC. Just it is able to boot up to windows:

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=866961
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=900672


I will not talk about voltages. AMD states 0.825-1.40V.

Look at memory timings. We are not talking about loose timing. We are talking about zombie timings. There is even setups with 1 or 2 GBs. That are joke OC's looking just for crazy frecuencies, as you can read at the post. Not even looking for the best performer setup. All of them from C3 stepping, and no clue if under x64 windows btw.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=90587

What the hell is doing an Athlon64 there?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ghz-superpi-1m

Superpi is not a stress program. It only uses 1 core. Most unimpressive link you could post, tbh. Just read user sign:

4.5ghz superpi 1M 15.585
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...rpi4500mhz.jpg
25,396 06 Phenom 965@ 4.4ghz HIS 5970@960/1260
21,893 Vantage, Phenom 965 4.2ghz HIS 5970 @960/1260

He needed to lower clocks to 4,2 to run vantage.

Using SuperPI to show a OC just says all about that OC:





Now I will tell you a real case scenario of Phenom II 24/7 fully stable x64 OC's:

http://foro.noticias3d.com/vbulletin...d.php?t=293905

Linx CPU ranking. One of the best stress program out there.

- coco666 - Core2 Q9650@4,4GHz - - 58,6Gflops - Ire - Core i7 920@4,2GHz - - 58,6Gflops - f0rwh0m - Core i7 920@4,2GHz - - 58,4Gflops -UrkoZzZ - Core i7 920@4,2GHz - - 58,0Gflops - DaViDoV77 - Core i7 920@4,0GHz -- 57,9Gflops - iceman182 - Core i7 920@4,2GHz -- 57,9Gflops - tuestasflipao - Core i7 965E@4,4GHz - - 57,6Gflops - coult9 - Core i7 920@4,0GHz -- 56,9Gflops - karlangas79 - Core i7 920@4,0GHz -- 56,9Gflops - Jexux - Core i7 950@4,0GHz - - 56,9Gflops - T0rnado - Core i7 920@4,2GHz -- 56,8Gflops - roketa - Core i7 920@4,0GHz -- 56,63Gflops - drfernan - Core i5 750@4,0GHz -- 56,5Gflops - Misael20 - Core i5 760@4,0GHz -- 56,4Gflops - kcuestag - Core i7 2600k@4,8GHz -- 56,41Gflops - Ire - Core i7 920@4,0GHz -- 56,4Gflops -Nexter - Core i5 750@4,0GHz - - 56,3Gflops - Ximi - Core2 Q9650@4,15GHz -- 56,2Gflops - XEROX-CB - Core i5 750@4GHz -- 56,0Gflops - Chrys - Xeon W3570@4GHz -- 55,9Gflops - Angelzzz - Core i5 750@4,0GHz - - 55,78Gflops - f0rwh0m - Core i7 920@4,2GHz -- 55,7Gflops - Rodolfeo - Core2 Q9550@4,25GHz -- 55,6Gflops - Mknopfler - Core2 Q9550@4,2Ghz - - 55,4Gflops - Lucky150 - PhenomII 955@4,3GHz - - 55,33Gflops - Nulero82 - Core i7 870@3,89GHz - - 55,2Gflops - sropas - Core2 Q9550@4,1GHz - - 55,05Gflops - X-TremeClock - Core i7 920@3.9GHz - - 55,05Gflops - Elrogos - Core i7 920@@3,8GHz - - 53,9Gflops - Rebellion - Core i7 920@@3,8GHz - - 53,8Gflops - drango -PhenomII X6 1055T@2,8GHz- - 53,7Gflops - dominator -Core i5 750@3,8GHz- - 53,7Gflops - X-TremeClock - Core i7 920@3,8GHz - - 52,9Gflops - Pistons - Core2 Q9550@4,0GHz - - 52,6Gflops - Angelzzz - Core i5 750@3,8GHz - - 52,6Gflops - Sleave - Core2 Q9550@3,8GHz - - 52,34Gflops - GigaByte777 -Core i5 750@3,79GHz- - 52,2Gflops - Saphery -Core2 Q9550@3,79GHz- - 51,62Gflops - zelemin -Phenom II X4 960T@X5 3,6GHz- - 51,57Gflops - Sonic_AFB -Phenom II x4 940@3,9GHz- - 51,4Gflops - madrider86 - Phenom II 965@4,0GHz - - 51,07Gflops - Link69 - Core2 Q9650@3,8GHz - - 51,02Gflops - Sleave - Core2 Q9550@3,7GHz - - 50,8Gflops - unnamed911 - Phenom II 955@4,0GHz - - 50,9Gflops - paloma - Core i7 920@4,2GHz - - 50,3Gflops - vanpopel - Phenom II 965@3,9GHz - - 50,30Gflops - killerbug - Phenom II 965@4,0GHz - - 50,2Gflops - Costa - Core i5 750@3,6GHz - - 50,1Gflops - Rojus - Phenon II 965@3.9GHz - - 49,5Gflops - NOCIVOX - Phenom II 955@3,8GHz - - 49,48Gflops - JARV69 - Phenom II X2@X4 3,8GHz -- 49,27Gflops - olrait - Core2 Q9550@3,6GHz - - 48,8Gflops - doverkan69 - Phenom II 955@3,8GHz -- 48,5Gflops - Jose_VK - Phenom II 965@3,8GHz - - 48,07Gflops - lojoko - Phenom II 965@3,8GHz - - 48,07Gflops - Chabux - Phenom II 550@X4 3,7GHz -- 48,07Gflops - Gaudy - Phenom II 955@3.7GHz -- 48,00Gflops - cygnusx1 - Core i5 750@3,4GHz - - 47,65Gflops - DaViDoV77 - Core2 Q9550@3,6GHz - - 47,3Gflops - Fidex - Phenom II 965@3,9GHz -- 47,22Gflops - dvh78 - Core2 Q6600@3,6GHz -- 47,20Gflops - Mayor Winters - Core2 Q9450@3,6GHz -- 47,15Gflops - sergi7375 - Phenom II 955@3,74GHz - - 46,9Gflops - Aguila - Phenom II 955@3,7GHz -- 46,7Gflops - djohny - Phenom II 550BE@X4 3,7GHz -- 46,7Gflops - karateca - Phenom II 955@3,6GHz -- 46,33Gflops - Evoluxion - Core2 Q6600@3,6GHz -- 46,2Gflops - suferbicho - Core2 Q9550@3,4GHz -- 46,1Gflops - Mcdhol - Core2 Q8400@3,92GHz -- 46,06GFlops - buzzbass - Phenom II [email]955@3,6GHz-?t=293905&page=35&p=3276400#post3276400]- 45,93Gflops - siko69 - Core2 Q6600@3,54GHz -- 45,8Gflops - madrider86 - Phenom II [email]965BE@3,89GHz-?t=293905&page=139&p=3873536#post3873536]- 45,78Gflops - Pixar - PhenomII X3 720@X4 3,5GHz -- 45,6Gflops - ihorga - Core i7 920@3,6Ghz -- 45,5Gflops - FlaT - Core2 QX9650@3,5GHz -- 45,2GFlops - tuoni - Core2 Quad Q6600@3,6GHz -- 45,12Gflops - ElTonto - Phenom II X2 555@X4 B55 3,76GHz -- 44,50GFlops - pato_uy - Phenom II X3 720@x4 3,6GHz -- 44,9GFlops - harrygorder - Core i5 750@3,15GHz -- 44,66GFlops - Nulero82 - Core i7 870@3,79GHz -- 44,65GFlops - avercros - AthlonII x4 620@3,4GHz -- 44,1Gflops - YasT - PhenomII x3 720@X4 3,6GHz -- 44,0Gflops - NeviL - AthlonII X4 620@(L3-on) 3,6Ghz -- 43,5Gflops - manucasillas - PhenomII x4 955@3,6GHz -- 43,2Gflops - djstar - Core2 QX9770@3,2GHz -- 42,9Gflops - hook - Phenom II X2 550@PII X4 3.4GHz -- 42,7Gflops - SergiojoseC4 - Core2 Q6600@3,2GHz GHz -- 42,4Gflops - Sendai - Core2 Q6600@3,2GHz GHz -- 42,3Gflops - Angelzzz - Phenom II 720@3,4GHz -- 42,3Gflops - Lucky150 - Core2 Q6600@3,2GHz -- 42,1Gflops - bogdanov.y - AthlonII X4 630@3,5GHz -- 41,9Gflops - DaRkAstro - Phenom II 940@3,3GHz -- 41,5Gflops - Markinhos Brown - AthlonII X4 620@3,4GHz -- 41,0Gflops - Natlus - Phenom II X3 710@X4 3,3GHz -- 40,9Gflops - Karolus - PhenomII 955@3,2GHz -- 40.76Gflops - VlRUS - PhenomII 955@3,2GHz -- 40.47Gflops - autlos - Athlon II X4 640@3,3GHz -- 40,32Gflops - JARV69 - Athlon II X4 630@3,47GHz -- 40,2Gflops - ubuntusero - Phenom II 940@3,4GHz -- 40,2Gflops - Rojus - Phenom II 965@3,9GHz -- 39,3Gflops - gembol - Core2 Q9300@3,0Ghz -- 39,2Gflops - Rokos - PhenomII 945@3,3GHz -- 38.47Gflops - AK-47 - Phenom II 550@X4 3,3GHz -- 38,1Gflops - sir asistant - Phenom II X4 810@3,0GHz -- 38Gflops - PushingXtrem - Phenom II X4 920@3,1GHz -- 37,3Gflops - Estifdus - Core i7 950@3,07GHz -- 36,97Gflops - Marineroo - Core i7 860@2,8GHz -- 36,7Gflops - perillo - Core2 Q6600@3,0GHz -- 35,95Gflops - mogoto - Phenom II X2 555@X3 3,6GHz -- 35,7Gflops - Sonic_AFB - Phenom II X4 940BE@3,0GHz -- 34,3Gflops - Jackal - Phenom 9550@2,93GHz -- 34,2Gflops - darkvier - Phenom II 550@X3 3,7GHz -- 34,1Gflops - Zokult - AthlonII X4 635@ 2,9GHz - - 34Gflops - Exis12tencia_81 - AthlonII X3 450@3,7GHz + L3 - - 34Gflops - samnstag04 - Core i7 860@2,8GHz - - 33,6Gflops - morolic - Phenom II 550@X3 3,4GHz - - 33,3Gflops - Ivan007valla - Core2 Q9400@2.66 GHz - - 33,2Gflops - Jisana - Phenom II 955@3,2GHz -- 33,1Gflops - Kaze - Core2 Q8400@2,66GHz - - 31,8Gflops - Pecero3D - PhenomII X3 710@3,3GHz -- 31,80Gflops - Lugoj - PhenomII X3 720@3,3GHz -- 30,99Gflops

I did the cut from the first Yorkfield to the last Phenom II. Only one Deneb over 4Ghz mark. Lynx can't take advantage from many arch improvements from Core2, it's just raw FPU power, so Deneb perform almost as good as Core2 per clock. In the other hand, AVX makes the difference here.

You NEED C3 to run over 4ghz in a x64 OS due to IMC. And even then it's not close to guaranteed to be able to catch it.

Now talk about release dates.

First, you'll find C3 stepping reviews from 2009, not that long after E0 stepping surfaced. Notice the difference in each company's process roadmap? Or, the irony in effectively claiming that the C3 stepping results I posted were not particularly valid, while posting E0 Q9650 OCs? Surely, E0s weren't the first revision of that line, any more than C3s, correct? Again, refer to the reviewer's comment about having "seen most C3 Deneb cores pass 4 GHz maximum clock." Or, reread my remark about how "overall, a large number of 45nm Phenom II/i5 7xx/i7 8xx/i7 9xx tend to fall within the 3.8-4.2GHz range for standard 24/7." Your Q9650 shots don't change that at all.

More than a year difference:

Yorkfield C1: March 2008
Yorkfield E0: August 2008
Nehalem: November 2008
Phenom II C2: January 2009
Lynnfield: September 2009
Phenom II C3: November 2009
Gulftown: March 2010
Thuban: April 2010

Not only that, E0 just didn't made so much difference in OC as G0 for Kentsfield, D0 for Nehalem or C3 for Deneb. Mostly bugfix stepping:


1Performance Monitoring Event IA32_FIXED_CTR2 May Not Function Properly when Max Ratio is a Non-Integer Core-to-Bus Ratio.
VM Exit with Exit Reason “TPR Below Threshold” Can Cause the Blocking by MOV/POP SS and Blocking by STI Bits to be Cleared in the Guest Interruptibility-State Field.
NMIs May Not Be Blocked by a VM-Entry Failure.
Partial Streaming Load Instruction Sequence May Cause the Processor to Hang.
Self/Cross Modifying Code May Not be Detected or May Cause a Machine Check Exception.
Data TLB Eviction Condition in the Middle of a Cacheline Split Load Operation May Cause the Processor to Hang.
RSM Instruction Execution under Certain Conditions May Cause Processor Hang or Unexpected Instruction Execution Results.

If you aren't familiar with Phenom II voltage tolerances, or the voltage range you often find many top end 24/7 clocks, that's fine, but being incredulous, and then attempting to make direct comparisons to contemporary Intels, isn't.

No sir. I haven't done. Again, more than a year diference between E0 and C3.

3. Power consumption.

Talking about voltages, maybe you are the one not familiar with voltage tolerances. Both manufacturers do their chips from 99'999% pure silicon. AMD used SOI for 45nm, Intel HKMG. HKMG lowers required voltages, but both dies are made from Silicon. AMD pushed their stock frecuencies due to worse IPC, but they also needed higher voltages. Not only that, but their die sizes were bigger than Yorkfield, and closer to Nehalem. AMD can say 1,4V it's safe for their Phenom II, and truth is they will not fail at that voltages for years. Mobo will break earlier than any cpu. Problem is electromigration will wear out cpu earlier. You can also put 1.4V core for any Yorkfield and it will last for years. Thing is, it's not good to. Once a processor start to ask for higher voltages, it will not stop.

I have a C1 Q9450 bought at launch date. In 4 years of 24/7 I never had to raise the voltages even a bit. Not in the CPU or the mobo chipset. I had to raise memory voltages twice, though.

Common sense, same silicon, same manufacturing size, wich one will suffer earlier from electromigration given one of them have higher voltages? Wich one will wear out being hotter? Remember, Yorkfield have 95w TDP, Phenom II 125W. By the way, Intel states 0.8500V-1.3625V for Yorkfields. Remember 0.825-1.40V for Phenom II.

Let's keep talking about Vcore. Electric bill doesn't care at all about your CPU manufacturer. The more Vcore you have, the higher your bill will be. You can predict to some extent the power consumption from frecuency and Vcore. Phenom II needs more frecuency and more Vcore to do a given task. How do this affect power consumption?

Let's see:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/power-consumption-overclocking.html



Over 50W difference between Q9505 and PII 965 at 3,9Ghz. Remember the lower IPC.

I have nothing more to say.

you've overlooked the charts clearly showing the AMDs being roughly equal to (or lower than) the Intels, bringing up performance-per-watt, and comparing the X4 940 to an ~340MHz lower clocked Q9400.

I do the fair thing. Compare CPU's power consumption at similar performance. I don't care if Q9400 have 340mhz less, it gives equal or better performance. Nehalem have greater power consumption, but it have much better performance too. Phenom II is close to Nehalem at Power consumption, but very far performance wise.

Just tell me why did you post this review.



Most biased and shameful review ever, and you bring it here. Once again, are you trying to cheat me or, hopefully, you didn't read it?

It wasn't polite at all to say I was misinforming or using futile arguments. Much more after posting fake overclocks and manipulated reviews. I don't like at all were topic is going to.

By the way, my Q9450 C1:

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1952520

Does stock 2'66Ghz at 0.928V core undervolted, idling at 8W. Yup, single digit quad core at 2008 once tuned up.

I know what i'm talking about.

I'm very sorry about the huge offtopic.

[theRizzle]

Guys, I understand the desire to debate a topic, but can you please stop cocking up the Ivy Bridge thread with posts about non-Ivy Bridge processors? It might be really confusing for some people.

[Black_Stride]

Has anyone decided to get a SB instead of an IB?

Me, going with a 2600K instead of a 3770K.

[cartman414]

Wow. Core had a crazy number of steppings. Guess they were just growing the beard at the time.

IB will be fine for mobile processors. Though Haswell will be even better there.

[BlindSwordsmanZ]

Please stop dicking up this thread with broken / polished language picto trash

[kamspy]

I'm also holding off. I thought Ivy Bridge was gonna be the one for me, but I'm still hanging on to that AM3 platform. This is my 3rd CPU in the same motherboard! Running a 1055t x6 BIOS'd to run like a regular Phenom II (constant clock speeds).

[Sethos]

Can someone explain to me why two people are posting book publications about AMD processors in the Ivy Bridge thread?

[Caesar III]

I'm really interested in jumping on the train as well. The overall OC performance is not what I care for the most so I'm tempted to get a 3770T (because of its low TDP). How does that turbo mode work? Is it only for short bursts? Can I use it for longer runtimes (aka gaming for few hours)? It would be a more than decent jump from my C2D 6850, wouldn't it? Any word against the 3770T?

[Gaylord Sweetwood]

How well do you think the HD 4000 will hold up in a game like Diablo 3? Currently, my brother is using this card with an old X2 processor. I told him that if Diablo 3 Beta is running fine, then maybe he can get away with using the integrated HD 4000 from the IB until he needs a legitimate graphics card for something more demanding.

Would like to get some opinions or even first hand experience if someone has tried the Beta using it.

[MrBig]

How well do you think the HD 4000 will hold up in a game like Diablo 3? Currently, my brother is using this card with an old X2 processor. I told him that if Diablo 3 Beta is running fine, then maybe he can get away with using the integrated HD 4000 from the IB until he needs a legitimate graphics card for something more demanding. Would like to get some opinions or even first hand experience if someone has tried the Beta using it.

You might be able to get away with it if you turn some things down, but I don't recall seeing any tests with it.

With AMD dropping support of the pre 5000 series you would want to be going to a new card if the iGPU doesn't hold up though.

e: found this video, looks like you'll be fine on the igpu.

[longdi]

I'm really interested in jumping on the train as well. The overall OC performance is not what I care for the most so I'm tempted to get a 3770T (because of its low TDP). How does that turbo mode work? Is it only for short bursts? Can I use it for longer runtimes (aka gaming for few hours)? It would be a more than decent jump from my C2D 6850, wouldn't it? Any word against the 3770T?

why dont you just get the i7 3770k and undervolt it? it should reach almost as low power TDP. 3770T i think are more ex than -k models. -T models are more for oem and system integrator

[Mr. Wonderful]

I'm contemplating it. I really don't know what to do. It seems that IB gives you a slight performance boost, but then SB gives you better overclocking performance which maybe negates the reason for buying an IB chip. Right now I'm probably going to be buying a 3770K, but I'm open to being swayed into buying a SB chip instead.

I don't know. If you do any kind of video editing, I would go Ivy Bridge for the QuickSync improvements alone. Though NVidia and AMD have created their own solutions (with only NVidia's being realized).

[Caesar III]

why dont you just get the i7 3770k and undervolt it? it should reach almost as low power TDP.

That's something to consider, good idea. hm.

3770T i think are more ex than -k models.

What does that mean? I'm not that familar with the tech-talk right now :)

-T models are more for oem and system integrator

I don't care for OC at all so I thought the T would be fine without any changes.

Any word about the turbo mode? I don't have a clue right now. I just know this from the old days where you could overclock your 486 by pressing a button on the front-panel. Does this work exactly the same now again? Is there any drawback when running in turbomode all the time? sorry for all this (perhaps dumb) questions :D

[Doc Holliday]

Currently i have an i7 930 at 3.6 mhz, debating if should upgrade to IB. Seems like every game i have is gpu dependent and I have a 7970. Is it worth upgrading ?

[piratepwnsninja]

Still not seeing a reason to upgrade from my i7 920 to be perfectly honest, especially with and architecture change next processor.

[Gaylord Sweetwood]

You might be able to get away with it if you turn some things down, but I don't recall seeing any tests with it. With AMD dropping support of the pre 5000 series you would want to be going to a new card if the iGPU doesn't hold up though. e: found this video, looks like you'll be fine on the igpu.

Thank you for finding that video. I was under the assumption that if D3 ran fine at whatever settings he has it at on that old crappy 4830, then the HD4000 should be up to the task.

[ParityBit]

OK, lets go positive! Who will be hanging out on Newegg/Amazon tomorrow hoping for the release of IB? I decided I will be! Hopefully 12 EST!

[specialguy]

Newegg seems to be really dragging lately on getting stuff in, price updates etc.

They were pretty slow updating the HD7000 series to it's new lower prices IIRC

I imagine in Intel's case it's a big enough deal they'll be sure to put them up though.

[dr. apocalipsis]

Currently i have an i7 930 at 3.6 mhz, debating if should upgrade to IB. Seems like every game i have is gpu dependent and I have a 7970. Is it worth upgrading ?

I don't think so. You can raise your clocks if you need more performance.

Only benefits from an upgrade would be power consumption, USB 3.0, Sata 3 and minor platform improvements.

[·feist·]

Disagreements should have a third party properly breaking down what's actually being communicated, beyond the points being disputed.

My apologies for contributing to this distraction.

3770T i think are more ex than -k models. What does that mean? I'm not that familar with the tech-talk right now :)

He seems to being saying more "expensive."

-T models are more for oem and system integrator I don't care for OC at all so I thought the T would be fine without any changes. Any word about the turbo mode? I don't have a clue right now. I just know this from the old days where you could overclock your 486 by pressing a button on the front-panel. Does this work exactly the same now again? Is there any drawback when running in turbomode all the time? sorry for all this (perhaps dumb) questions :D

You wouldn't be manually controlling it on the fly. You have different types of turbo which kick in based on thermals, and workload. That determines how, when, and for how long you'll get a boost in performance.

As for power use, remember these CPUs are all very efficient. The "T," and "S" models are not that far off in price from the "K," and standard SKUs. I'd only go with the lower wattage choices for use in an ultra slim/compact build, or if consumption costs were prohibitive.

What Longdi mentioned is a good option. It's what users have been doing for generations. Going with the "K" gives you the greatest flexibility. Undervolt for reduced consumption. Undervolt, and underclock for even less. Run in a higher state for increased performance. With a decent motherboard, you'll have the option to store different profiles which you can switch between, as needed. Whether you have any intention of overclocking, the "K" affords you the greatest room to increase performance in the future (should you change your mind on OCs), instead of needing to pay to upgrade your CPU/PC.

[scottXplosion]

Has anyone decided to get a SB instead of an IB?

I did. I was holding out for a new build even though I have an i7 920 and i7 930 already, but below is what I wound up with. Ordered it last night...

Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz
ASRock P67 EXTREME4 GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel P67
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit
Corsair Carbide Series 400R Graphite grey and black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Case
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX650 V2 650W ATX12V Power Supply
LITE-ON Black 12X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 12X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM SATA 12X Blu-ray Burner
CORSAIR CWCH60 Hydro Series H60 Liquid CPU Cooler
G.SKILL Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 Memory
EVGA GTX 680 SC 2048MB

I'll have everything but the 680 next week which should arrive the week after. Though not in a huge rush to build it at the moment.

[ParityBit]

Is this an IB? http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-357...5660452&sr=1-2

[scottXplosion]

Is this an IB? http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-357...5660452&sr=1-2

Yes.

[Infinite Justice]

Thanks for the answers and i might just stick with SB then (OC'ing wont be a priority until later on in the system's life)

Is this an IB? http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-357...5660452&sr=1-2

Yea.

[ParityBit]

Looks like he 3770s is a 2-5 week wait? Eh?

They must have. Jumped the gun or something. I don't see them anymore.

[sk3]

There's a thread on overclock.net where a guy posted pictures of a sales ad from microcenter. 3570k = $249 reg / $189 sale price. 3770k = $359 reg / $289 sale. Those sale prices are awesome. But it says it starts on 4/30. If I go in there tomorrow and the sale hasn't started yet I'm gonna hulk out.

[ParityBit]

There's a thread on overclock.net where a guy posted pictures of a sales ad from microcenter. 3570k = $249 reg / $189 sale price. 3770k = $359 reg / $289 sale. Those sale prices are awesome. But it says it starts on 4/30. If I go in there tomorrow and the sale hasn't started yet I'm gonna hulk out.

I am going to be trolling amazon when it get up, since we have no real idea when they may be up.

[Hazaro]

If it's that expensive then it makes it easy to not recommend IB.

[Sethos]

If it's that expensive then it makes it easy to not recommend IB.

Indeed, damn.

[faceless007]

There's a thread on overclock.net where a guy posted pictures of a sales ad from microcenter. 3570k = $249 reg / $189 sale price. 3770k = $359 reg / $289 sale. Those sale prices are awesome. But it says it starts on 4/30. If I go in there tomorrow and the sale hasn't started yet I'm gonna hulk out.

Sweet, I was hoping MC would do a similar deal to what they did with the 2500Ks. Was that with a mobo combo or just the CPU?

Edit: NM, found it myself. That's stand-alone, but there's also $50 off a Z77 mobo if bought with 3570K. And apparently they're dropping 2500K to $169. This is gonna be a tough one...

[Caesar III]

He seems to being saying more "expensive." You wouldn't be manually controlling it on the fly. You have different types of turbo which kick in based on thermals, and workload. That determines how, when, and for how long you'll get a boost in performance. As for power use, remember these CPUs are all very efficient. The "T," and "S" models are not that far off in price from the "K," and standard SKUs. I'd only go with the lower wattage choices for use in an ultra slim/compact build, or if consumption costs were prohibitive. What Longdi mentioned is a good option. It's what users have been doing for generations. Going with the "K" gives you the greatest flexibility. Undervolt for reduced consumption. Undervolt, and underclock for even less. Run in a higher state for increased performance. With a decent motherboard, you'll have the option to store different profiles which you can switch between, as needed. Whether you have any intention of overclocking, the "K" affords you the greatest room to increase performance in the future (should you change your mind on OCs), instead of needing to pay to upgrade your CPU/PC.

Thanks for this explanation. Will go K model then :)

[BigTnaples]

Just ordered my 3770k from newegg.

along with

a


GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500)

Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2CCA 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) with Transfer Kit

Logitech MX 5500 Revolution Black Bluetooth Cordless Desktop Standard keyboard & Mouse Kit (for comfy couch)

ASUS VH232H Glossy Black 23" 5ms Widescreen Full HD 1080p LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 ASCR 20000:1 w/Speakers & HDMI (for resolution parity with my Samsung D8000)


Should be quite the nice upgrade from my q6600 4gb ram and standard HDD.

[UltimateIke]

Just ordered my 3770k from newegg. along with a GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2CCA 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) with Transfer Kit Logitech MX 5500 Revolution Black Bluetooth Cordless Desktop Standard keyboard & Mouse Kit (for comfy couch) ASUS VH232H Glossy Black 23" 5ms Widescreen Full HD 1080p LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 ASCR 20000:1 w/Speakers & HDMI (for resolution parity with my Samsung D8000) Should be quite the nice upgrade from my q6600 4gb ram and standard HDD.

What made you go with the DDR3 1066 instead of 1600?

I think even CAS 9 1600 would outperform CAS 7 1066. And is only $10 more. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231429

I'm assuming this is what you bought.


My knowledge is based on hearsay and this chart, so I could be wrong.

[ParityBit]

Just ordered my i7 3770K from Amazon!

[Seiki]

Went with a 3750K. Coming from an i7 930, I had issues ocing past 3.5 GHz with ambient temperatures. I only plan to game on this new rig, so I don't think I'll be needing HT.