[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Well Ok then! See you in a month when you barge into another Nintendo thread, spout the same nonsense, and leave before you can be corrected! After all, anyone who disagrees is clearly an irrational fanboy.

Oh, I never made a post even barely related to Nintendo Wii on this forum until today, but hey, don't let reality get in your way.

Beside, yes, let's keep ignoring how on Wii few franchises sell gargantuan amounts of copies (ironically enough, not the ones popular on a gaming community) and pretty much all the other software struggles to reach profit.
Wii software sales dropped for more than 50% in the last twelve months, but that's me being a hater and they are doing absolutely fine.

But that wasn't even the point, in the first place.
Here we have a developer talking about his direct experience with Nintendo, which was apparently awful for plenty of reasons, and tons of people rabid cause he bad mouthed then.

[Criminal Upper]

Well Ok then! See you in a month when you barge into another Nintendo thread, spout the same nonsense, and leave before you can be corrected! After all, anyone who disagrees is clearly an irrational fanboy.

This pretty much nails it.

"Oh you're disagreeing with me? Posting facts and shit? Well keep doing that, you irrational fanboys!"

smh

[plufim]

Oh, I never made a post even barely related to Nintendo Wii on this forum until today, but hey, don't let reality get in your way. Beside, yes, let's keep ignoring how on Wii few franchises sell gargantuan amounts of copies (ironically enough, not the ones popular on a gaming community) and pretty much all the other software struggles to reach profit. Wii software sales dropped for more than 50% in the last twelve months, but that's me being a hater and they are doing absolutely fine.

Attach rate on Wii is about the same as PS3. You started off by saying you agreed with the "people only buy Wii Sports".

Turns out that is wrong!

I should have done some research on your post history before assuming you were one of the many who jump into threads with an opinion, and when it is challenged, just go "pfft fanboys" and leave. But hey, you know what would have been easier? Just reading a few pages of this thread before posting in the first place.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Attach rate on Wii is about the same as PS3. You started off by saying you agreed with the "people only buy Wii Sports". Turns out that is wrong!

"People only buy wii sport" is clearly a way to oversimplify it.
What else do they buy? Just Dance?

And in what way this graph proves a point, by the way?
They have twice the amount of consoles sold, and they struggle to sell software on par with the other two big consoles. Doesn't sound particularly healthy.



Beside, that's not even related to Wiiware.

[pa22word]

Deserves quoting / reposting. Maybe if Oster and his publisher had followed those basic guidelines they would have done better.

Something that has nothing to do with what the guy is talking about (WiiWare) is deserving of a repost? In what world?

Also, I think it's funny people are using the ignorant tried and true, "this guy has never done anything in this industry, therefore wrong!" argument when he's been working on games for Bioware since the original Baulder's Gate and upto Dragon Age Origins. It's truly fascinating that such a petty ad hominem attack made by people too lazy to even do a google search on the guy suffices for a competent argument.

[BGBW]

Oh, I never made a post even barely related to Nintendo Wii on this forum until today, but hey, don't let reality get in your way. Beside, yes, let's keep ignoring how on Wii few franchises sell gargantuan amounts of copies (ironically enough, not the ones popular on a gaming community) and pretty much all the other software struggles to reach profit.

Ironic? Where's the irony. Also didn't know Mario Kart wasn't a popular game "on gaming communities".
Also is there any evidence about struggling to reach a profit or not. Only data we usually get is sales. Revenue is unknown and budget is unknown which is why we get silly articles talking about another game failing to sell a million copies by an author who has no idea what the difference between net and gross profit is.

[plufim]

"People only buy wii sport" is clearly a way to oversimplify it. What else do they buy? Just Dance?

So the PS3 attach rate is also only 1-2 as well then? Or perhaps, and here's a shock - you don't actually have an understanding of the Wii library. Which is fine, you don't have to! There's way too many games to keep track of these days, I know I'm ignorant as fuck about the PSP library.

But I don't just make assumptions about it.

[DragonSworne]

"People only buy wii sport" is clearly a way to oversimplify it. What else do they buy? Just Dance?

They bought a bunch of different title, some big names, some knock offs, etc, but one thing is for sure, the flood of crap titles has poluted the wii library and negatively affected sales.

Third party sales were extremely high on the Wii for the first 2 years, but a drought and a flood of cheap rip off games has stagnanted the Wii third party sales. People concentrate on a known quality, Nintendo.

What games are people buying on PS3? I hardly see any of it's games on the top of any charts...

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Ironic? Where's the irony. Also didn't know Mario Kart wasn't a popular game "on gaming communities".

I find a certain irony, yes, in gamers praising software sales on Wii, when the games selling the most are the one they widely despise OR the Nintendo first party products.
Also, didn't know that Mario Kart was third party software.

What games are people buying on PS3? I hardly see any of it's games on the top of any charts...

Why are you people assuming I'm taking the part of PS3 as if this was some sort of competition, exactly?

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

EDIT: double.

[DragonSworne]

EDIT: double.

I would like to know what games people are buying on pS3. Obviously people only buy Wii for Wii Sports. What are people buying PS3 for?

I bought mine for BluRay and Demon Soul.

[BGBW]

I find a certain irony, yes, in gamers praising software sales on Wii, when the games selling the most are the one they widely despise OR the Nintendo first party products. Also, didn't know that Mario Kart was third party software.

"Let's keep ignoring how on Wii few franchises sell gargantuan amounts of copies (ironically enough, not the ones popular on a gaming community)"

You make no mention that that it has to be third party so I just gave an example of a series I know has sold well and is popular on GAF. And what games does GAF despise? Because that is a pretty strong word. There was Carnival Games and...um...

[Glass Rebel]

I wish people would stop acting like Nintendo is some kind of magical entity that's above every other developer and publisher. There are reasons why people buy Nintendo software over 3rd party stuff. When I was still on Nintendo consoles I certainly had mine.

[wsippel]

Something that has nothing to do with what the guy is talking about (WiiWare) is deserving of a repost? In what world?

You know what? You're right. Really. Problem is: Oster wasn't asked about WiiWare, either. He was asked about the Wii U eShop - a service he knows nothing about.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

I would like to know what games people are buying on pS3. Obviously people only buy Wii for Wii Sports. What are people buying PS3 for? I bought mine for BluRay and Demon Soul.

I don't play on PS3 AT ALL, actually, but that doesn't change that I would probably find more interesting software on in than on Wii.
Don't get me wrong, i think the Wii has a fistful of great games, But they are a fistful, indeed. And 70% of them are Nintendo stuff, not third party games.

And yet, that wasn't the point of the argument, was it?

[radioheadrule83]

I find a certain irony, yes, in gamers praising software sales on Wii, when the games selling the most are the one they widely despise OR the Nintendo first party products. Also, didn't know that Mario Kart was third party software.

BGBW is ten times the poster you are. At least he can follow his own conversations...

you made a comment that games selling gargantuan amounts of copies on the Wii are the kind of games gaming communities aren't interested in -- Mario Kart Wii is still one of the best selling titles on any system out right now - therefore, what you said is patently wrong.

Mario & Sonic is a SEGA developed title, that series is at over 9m. All of the Sonic games performed brilliantly on the Wii, but I suppose you're going to argue that he's basically equivalent to Mario and Nintendo or something.

Music games have performed very well, you mentioned Just Dance, but also Michael Jackson The Experience, Guitar Hero and Rock Band. Are these not considered games on other platforms?

Deca Sports, Game Party, EA Sports Active, Epic Mickey, Raving Rabbids and Call of Duty have all done very well. Plenty of other games like House of the Dead Overkill, Dead Space Extraction and Eurocom's GoldenEye all met or exceeded expectations, and went on to receive lucrative port-ups. Monster Hunter Tri is at around 2 million now, with the 3DS expansion set to increase the reward for that investment much much further, and Resident Evil 4 reached around the same number having already reached such milestones on Gamecube, PS2 and PC.

Different kinds of games excel on the Wii, and competing with first party is easier on the other consoles - I would never deny that, but your assertion that nothing else sells but Nintendo is pretty much ignorant. There isn't enough shovelware in the world to make up the kind of attach rate and third party sales they achieved.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

BGBW is ten times the poster you are. At least he can follow his own conversations... you made a comment that games selling gargantuan amounts of copies on the Wii are the kind of games gaming communities aren't interested in -- Mario Kart Wii is still one of the best selling titles on any system out right now - therefore, what you said is patently wrong.

No, the recurrent argument, from the start, was how almost anyone *beside* Nintendo was making big money on the Wii, "except few gargantuan franchises".
We were taking about third party software, and apparently you were even aware of it, as you posted that related graph about.... Guess what? Yep, third party software sales.

Then suddenly the argument is turned and everything is about Mario Kart and Mario Party and how I can't disprove how successful they are.... Except I don't want to, I never attempted to. That was never the point.

[michaelius]

I see we are on a way to devopers have hidden agenda threads in two years from now :)

[tinfoilhatman]

Sorry but after Gamecube I will never buy another Nintendo product until they actually try and compete with MS and Sony on a technology\raw power front, I do see their consoles far more as "toys" in comparison to PS360.

[Zeer0id]

this thread is a barrel of laughs

[shrimpjive]

ive looked into the issue..alot..the guy is full of bs (bullshoot)..ninty is known for having the best games...

[Cheech]

ive looked into the issue..alot..the guy is full of bs (bullshoot)..ninty is known for having the best games...

Would you call yourself an Expert?

[shrimpjive]

Would you call yourself an Expert?

hmmm yes ive been called as such...

[USC-fan]

It's not debunked. His claims are true and his complaints are perfectly understandable. The problem is that the way his complaints were worded, many people evidently think the problems he mentioned would also apply to more recent Nintendo online services like the eShop. Nobody expects him to change his mind or apologize or anything, but he should have clarified that he was talking about the Wii and doesn't know anything about the Wii U eShop (which is the platform he was asked about in the first place).

He was not talking about wiiu......

https://twitter.com/#!/TrentOster/st...93121835155457


What was the result of that experience with Nintendo?

17 Apr

Trent Oster @TrentOster

@Maxrunner @starscream8 The result is a belief that Nintendo isn't a good platform for developers. The Wii is a toy, not a console

[radioheadrule83]

No, the recurrent argument, from the start, was that almost anyone *beside* Nintendo was struggling to make good money on the Wii, "except few gargantuan franchises".

Okay. Your wording was this:

Beside, yes, let's keep ignoring how on Wii few franchises sell gargantuan amounts of copies (ironically enough, not the ones popular on a gaming community) and pretty much all the other software struggles to reach profit.

You threw sarcasm in his face, and I don't think the post he was replying to was particularly clear on that.

You know Ubisoft are making 40+% of their money on Wii?

I don't particularly care about what you think are "real games" or games that gamers "care about" -- the point was, third parties aren't necessarily struggling to make money on Wii. In fact, some are obviously doing very well at it. Probably not on the WiiWare store, which is where Oster's problems eminate from, but some are certainly doing alright on the platform and again on the 3DS - RenegadeKid being someone who has basically had a completely different experience to Oster. As for the assertion that it's a toy, it's no more a toy than the Xbox 360 or PS3. I'm sure Sony and Microsoft would have loved their toys to have done as well as the Wii.

It's those kind of assertions that we're talking about here. Even if they were right at the time, and right for Digital sales on the Wii, there are devs like RenegadeKid, Nicalis, Capturing Smiles, WayForward and Shin'en who are obviously able to do business in a way that he didn't (or couldn't)... he doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that.

With the likes of MDK, I think he should be pointing the finger more at Interplay for not testing for the existence of an audience, and not really promoting it.. the Wii Shop does stink, and the sales threshold sounds harsh as fuck, but developers and publishers know exactly what that eco-system is like and what the risks are when they go in developing for it. Raving on about how he'll never work with them again and how bad the ecosystem was is his perjorative, but I don't particularly think he has any kind of credible voice for third party developers on Nintendo systems, or that he has anything useful to say about 3DS or Wii-U... because frankly, he wouldn't know.

[Hoo-doo]

ive looked into the issue..alot..the guy is full of bs (bullshoot)..ninty is known for having the best games...

Case closed, I say.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

You know what? I was completely wrong. I don't know what I was thinking.
I'm sure the Wii is a fantastic environment for developers.

You know Ubisoft are making 40+% of their money on Wii?

Yes, I know. They make Just Dance, in fact.
I would spare you my opinion about the company, anyway.

[Dascu]

You know what? I was completely wrong. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm sure the Wii is a fantastic environment for developers.

Good example of how fruitless these discussions often are. On the argument that you and BGBW (and others) were having: Important to point out that on every console non-franchise games aren't doing very well. Take the recent Binary Domain. On the Wii, the powerhouse franchises happen to be Nintendo games.

[shrimpjive]

You know what? I was completely wrong. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm sure the Wii is a fantastic environment for developers.

pwned lol

[Clear]

WiiWare was a mess. It was just a bad environment to try and publish in, as evidenced by the rarity of success stories.

If that was your first corporate experience with Nintendo, it would be off-putting in the extreme and as such its hardly surprising that you wouldn't be in any particular rush to go back and try again.

Wii could have, and indeed should have been much more attractive considering how successful it was. In terms of dev-cost/addressable install-base it should've been a priority for small developers, however it never really took off and a lot of companies that tried felt burned in the end.

The reality is that within the development fraternity Nintendo have a lot to prove in terms of being a good choice of partner. If they want more third-party support, the onus is now squarely on them to go out and get it.

[pa22word]

You know what? You're right. Really. Problem is: Oster wasn't asked about WiiWare, either..

He may not have been asked about it, but he sure as hell gave an opinion on it. He said his reasoning for abandoning Nintendo development was tied to his poor experience with Nintendo while developing/releasing a game for WiiWare.

Take the recent Binary Domain

Pretty sure that was due to the fact most people had no idea it had even came out yet by the time it's release rolled around >.>

[nincompoop]

But they can't be as flexible because the Wii doesn't have the storage space, and the games can't run directly from the SD cards. That's just the simple truth; allowing developers to release games that take up half the Wiis internal memory would be bad for everyone

But why can't the games be made to run directly from SD cards? I can open up the homebrew channel on my Wii right now and run any number of homebrew games and applications directly from SD, including some which are much larger than 40MB (Quake). Why shouldn't Nintendo be able to implement a feature that the homebrew channel developers implemented years ago?

[djtiesto]

You guys are hilarious.

Perhaps I'd buy their games if they made something more compelling than ports of old Bioware PC games.

[stuminus3]

You know, he could have quite simply said that his relationship with Nintendo didn't work out and moved on.

BUT no, he also blatantly insulted his own customers who were very eager to pick Baldur's Gate that just happened to be, say, enjoying Xenoblade on Wii at the moment.

So he can go fuck himself, regardless of how right he is.

[hauton]

I was gonna call him out for being bitter, even if he had a point

but the update post put a lot of his quotes into perspective - especially the "Wii is a toy" line, I think a lot of people really misconstrued what he said there!

And I think overall his criticisms of the Wiiware model are pretty bang-on

[ShinUltramanJ]

Why on earth did they even bother trying to put MDK2 on Wiiware over PSN/XBLA in the first place?!

[radioheadrule83]

But why can't the games be made to run directly from SD cards? I can open up the homebrew channel on my Wii right now and run any number of homebrew games and applications directly from SD, including some which are much larger than 40MB (Quake). Why shouldn't Nintendo be able to implement a feature that the homebrew channel developers implemented years ago?

Fear, and practicality. They haven't walled off the SD slot in hardware nor software, but it is interfaced with differently (no IOS code for launching games on the slot by default) and there is an SD slot exclusive encryption key for encrypting save games. SD executables could open the system up to potential attack. The 3DS has a newer CPU/GPU solution inside, games store 'extra data' in system memory, and well encrypted content on the SD card, and the bootcode and OS seem sufficient (so far) for blocking any kind of circumvention or attempts to reveal the key(s).

The Wii was different, it has a fatal flaw... the ARM core (which Team Twiizers nicknamed Starlet) is what locks down the Wii-exclusive components in Gamecube mode, and limits the RAM. By playing with the actual hardware as it ran, they were able to sort memory addresses in to RAM and read them out, including the area where Starlet was storing encryption keys (ie. the master AES key)... with that in hand, they were able to gradually decrypt and understand the whole system.

It's only using homebrew and exploiting that master key that people were able to get software running from USB and SD - because normally, the system IOS' do not allow for that. Nintendo could re-write all of their firmwares / IOS' and do something similar -- but can you imagine how much bug-testing it would take?

[Criminal Upper]

Why on earth did they even bother trying to put MDK2 on Wiiware over PSN/XBLA in the first place?!

Interplay was their publisher, and they asked for WiiWare. A bad choice for sure. Probably because Interplay did not have the funds to go towards HD remasters.

[elostyle]

If you rely on first party certification as your QA process then you are fucked before you even started. That's a super rookie mistake and if you have your ducks in a row you usually don't bounce more than once.

In light of keeping Nintendo's certification department busy for 9 months, a minimum sales target suddenly makes a lot of sense. From what I heard, Microsoft even charges you if you have to resubmit a title.

[Criminal Upper]

If you rely on first party certification as your QA process then you are fucked before you even started. That's a super rookie mistake and if you have your ducks in a row you usually don't bounce more than once. In light of keeping Nintendo's certification department busy for 9 months, a minimum sales target suddenly makes a lot of sense. From what I heard, Microsoft even charges you if you have to resubmit a title.

That's true. A pretty high amount was suggested once on GAF, but I don't quote it for fear of it being inaccurate.

[Relaxed Muscle]

Wait, you're complaining because you didn't even have to wait 10 seconds to go to a store to buy a game? According to that one thread, it seems like everyone here hates the word entitled, but I feel like it's appropriate here.

It was an example of how slow the store was, it takes that amount of time just to load the frontpage, let's not even go about navigating, looking for games, loading videos, etc...

It's not that bad, but the user experience is greatly inferior to other digital services.

[pvpness]

Writing off the toy/unfriendly environment comments is easy enough, but the bitching about the 6k threshold is funny. They would have known about that before-hand but decided to run with it anyway. What stands out for me is that they couldn't price their own game. Not sure if this is par for the course around DD as I don't really get to deep into the business side across all platforms, but that's the exact reason I didn't buy MDK2. Half that cost and I would have bit on day 1, Nintendo.

[remnant]

If you're a small dev, wouldn't you want to release your game on platforms whose holders haven't kicked you in the nuts in the past?

I don't know ask the devs who swore off Apple before the Iphone or Android before it became a market leader.

I continue to be amazed by this thread and the revulsion some people have to the idea that maybe Nintendo is flawed in some way. Having been a huge NES fan back in the day, I remember only too well when they got sued for anti-competitive practices related to their treatment of third parties and retailers. And this was over twenty years ago, FFS.

And i continue to be amazed at people who say this. Making shit up is not an argument. No one is saying Nintendo is flawless. if anything it's been the exact fucking opposite. Read the thread.

What people are saying is that much of what he said is factually wrong now, and his attitude isn't smart in an industry like this.

Nintendo is a company that has *always* merely tolerated third parties, as opposed to embracing them. Sure, they may finally be seeing the writing on the wall in regard to their competition, but it's not hard to understand where MDK guy is coming from if you've been following the industry for as long as some of us have.

And some of us have seen many dev's, including this one release crap games that no one cares about on Nintendo platforms, failing and blaming Nintendo instead of maybe their own internal decisions. You may have followed this industry a long time, but all that history has rarely contributed to any argument that rise above generic fanboy/anti-fanboy mudslinging that ignore reality. This thread is no different.

Has MDK2HD come out. It would be interesting to see what happens if that bombs on XBLA.

[staticneuron]

Jools Watsham's (Renegade Kid's) blog is well worth reading, considering some of the misinformation flying around here. After all, he had a major success with Mutant Mudds on the 3DS eShop. Read it. It's the perfect antidote to Oster's nonsense. http://joolswatsham.blogspot.co.uk/2...rd-i-give.html

I can't help but notice when people try to point out contrary point of view, they seem to do so with devs who publish exclusively on nintendo consoles. Do you guys seriously miss the issue with this?

Honestly, reading this thread is pretty sad in terms of the logical leaps people are making here, to prove that there "is" no issue here and it is all the third parties fault.

And some of us have seen many dev's, including this one release crap games that no one cares about on Nintendo platforms, failing and blaming Nintendo instead of maybe their own internal decisions. You may have followed this industry a long time, but all that history has rarely contributed to any argument that rise above generic fanboy/anti-fanboy mudslinging that ignore reality. This thread is no different. Has MDK2HD come out. It would be interesting to see what happens if that bombs on XBLA.

MDK2 is a crap game? I am not a nostalgic person but I wouldn't call it crap either. But even if he did sell millions of copies does it change the issues he had with the process? If other companies do not pose such an issue then it would only make sense he wouldn't plan to try that process again unless he had no choice.

Attach rate on Wii is about the same as PS3. You started off by saying you agreed with the "people only buy Wii Sports". Turns out that is wrong!

They are not the same as I had posted the numbers from fiscal reports earlier.

Worldwide (according to last fiscal reports, units in millions): 360 HW:65.8 360 SW :? Ratio:? PS3 HW:62 PS3 SW:568.1 Ratio: 9.1 Wii HW:94.97 Wii SW:805.15 Ratio: 8.4

And it makes for an even stronger point of view if I point out to you that the top 15 best selling games on the Wii (list is year old though) are first party and make up 290 million units of those software sales. As a a matter of fact, looking at the entire million seller list basically 330 million units are attributed to the 1st party SW numbers which means that 3rd parties are really looking at a ratio of 4.9 or less. Neither the 360 or the PS3 first party software take up that much of a dramatic chunk.

[mclem]

I can't help but notice when people try to point out contrary point of view, they seem to do so with devs who publish exclusively on nintendo consoles. Do you guys seriously miss the issue with this?

It's not like they don't have the option to go elsewhere, and yet they're choosing not to. There might possibly be a reason for that.

[Glorified G]

I'm not even sure which part of that I should quote and mock first.

I would start with this:

"I wish Nintendo the best and I hope they can hit big with a major success."

Geez, what a fucking hater!

If you must know, Nintendo fans are usually the most critical of the company..

[M3d10n]

But why can't the games be made to run directly from SD cards? I can open up the homebrew channel on my Wii right now and run any number of homebrew games and applications directly from SD, including some which are much larger than 40MB (Quake). Why shouldn't Nintendo be able to implement a feature that the homebrew channel developers implemented years ago?

Just read this:
hackmii.com/2009/02/why-the-wii-will-never-get-any-better/

td/dr: the Wii firmware is a gigantic hack with zero future proofing. Something that seems simple as booting software from elsewhere than the internal flash is actually utterly complicated, because part that actually does the booting stuff knows nothing about reading files off SD cards and while it could be patched to do so, it would involve patching all IOSes used by all existing Wii Channels (VC and Wiiware) and testing them all to make sure they work.

[staticneuron]

It's not like they don't have the option to go elsewhere, and yet they're choosing not to. There might possibly be a reason for that.

That takes apart the argument about flexibility of choice. If a dev/publisher makes a firm decision to back one horse then you cannot take to heart any comparisons from them because they don't have any releases on other services to compare and contrast.

They may be comfortable but it doesn't speak well to if they would find other service better to use.

[fernoca]

I can't help but notice when people try to point out contrary point of view, they seem to do so with devs who publish exclusively on nintendo consoles. Do you guys seriously miss the issue with this? Honestly, reading this thread is pretty sad in terms of the logical leaps people are making here, to prove that there "is" no issue here and it is all the third parties fault.

But what does they deciding to publish for Nintendo consoles "only" has to do with it? Shin'en is like 5-6 guys from Germany and they still do contract work for Activision and other teams. Renegade Kids recent games has been on the DS/3DS, they're like 3 guys and they could've jumped ship when sales of Dementium II weren't that high or when no-publishers wanted to release the original version of Mutant Mudds for the DS. If the experience was "that bad" they would've jumped ship fast.

Or like Gaijin Games (Bit.trip) or Two Tribes (Toki Tori); they moved on from "Nintendo consoles" when they felt their visions would be too limited, but still left the doors open and both Two Tribes and Gaijin would love/confirmed support for the Wii U.

RedLynx enjoyed working with Nintendo and that was after making an Xbox 360 game (Trials HD) and while making a sequel to that game for 360 also (Trials Evolution). One might've guessed that Live Arcade would've been a no brainer for MotoHeroz also or the experience would've been too ..abstract; yet they had praise towards the experience.

They're used as examples, because those developers as small as they are in most cases, still had success stories and had a good/positive experience. Same way people like to use the negative ones to use as examples, why not use the positive ones...even if "they only work on Nintendo hardware". Beamdog's technically falls under the same category since they've only made 3 games..and the first was for WiiWare, the other one for PC and the third one for iOS. RedLynx for example recently released Motoheroz on iOS, yet they had a good experience with Nintendo, and made Xbox Live Arcade games. Just because those developers choose to work on Nintendo platforms, doesn't make them exclusive or blind towards other services.

EDIT:
And the examples provided are not to show that "there's no issue"; but that developers still managed relative success despite said issues. And aside issues with size, low sales and other misc. factors they still had a good experienc. Even Team Meat is still looking forward for the Wii U and 3DS after not been able to release 2 WiiWare games (Aether and Meat Boy) ... because of said limits; or not been allowed to release The Binding of Isaac on the 3DS (because of the content and the game needing a publisher and ESRB rating)... and they tend to be quite vocal when not liking something.

[staticneuron]

And the examples provided are not to show that "there's no issue"; but that developers still managed relative success despite said issues.

The problem here, is that people are talking about this in terms of sales success or not. That is near impossible to talk about because each respective company has their own metric and expectations for success on any given title.

What we are talking about here is the process and limitations involved with getting a game out there. And given the scenario that beamdog talked about in the OP it should be understandable why if given a choice beamdog chose the latter.

When bringing up companies that have a long history of dealing with nintendo, simply means that the devs in question has accepted the process as a matter of course. Talk about success and failure shouldn't even be thrown around as much as it has in this thread. I mean even from rengade kids post....

In the end, Mutant Mudds is a success. It has met our hopes for sales. It encourages us to make more games for the eShop market. If we had spent more time and/or money on Mutant Mudds we might have a different situation. Likely a worse one. That’s not to say that the eShop can't handle larger scoped games. It will just take some time before the eShop audience is large enough for that, which I believe is just a matter of time.

So, when looking back and deciding if your time and effort was well spent, the process pays a big role in this and the perspectives shift especially when talking about a dev that aims for multiplatform versus one that sticks to a particular company.