[nomis]

I wish The Avengers was the typical summer blockbuster.

It is?

How many summer blockbusters have genuinely funny dialogue, great characters with chemistry between them and good comedic timing? Not to mention really well shot action.

If Avengers was the average summer blockbuster, then the overall quality bar for summer blockbusters would be about 1000% higher than it is currently.

[Good Job Bob]

So what does that make movies like Transformers? Unless you're seriously trying to group them together...

The Avengers and Transformers are in the same bracket to me.

It's not an insult or anything. It is what is.

[jett]

Did a bit of digging, you'll find this interesting: http://www.awn.com/articles/effects-...ar-side-worldi

That's neat, but in this movie's case I'd rather not lift the veil. :P

[Nesotenso]

Gives us a chance to improve our tech at least. Pacific Rim will be building off of the water sim stuff from Battleship, for example.

Charlie Day in Pacific Rim. That just seems out of left field. Can't to see how Del Toro's vision is realized.

[Endo Punk]

He is peak human. He is everything a human is capable of being at the maximum potential. He has super strength which allows him to weild the shield without any pain from force of impact. He has the mind to calculate the angle at which to bounce the shield around and hit multiple targets. He is an excellent leader and strategist. Yes hes a fairly popular character. You should read Ed Brubaker's run on the character. Real life answer about his name is that he is a propaganda mouthpiece. The movie illustrates this. But later on he has evolved and is name is representing how he is trying to fight for the American dream

I see, thank you :)

[Hot Coldman]

Charlie Day in Pacific Rim. That just seems out of left field. Can't to see how Del Toro's vision is realized.

Everyone is like "IDRIS ELBA OMFG" about that film, but fuck that! He's in everything! Charlie motherfucking Day, meanwhile, is fantastic and needs more work. Horrible Bosses was fantastic and I bet he's going to steal the show in that film.

[nomis]

The Avengers and Transformers are in the same bracket to me. It's not an insult or anything. It is what is.

Robo-dog humping someone's leg and robo-testes on the Destructicon = the comedy in Avengers. The character dynamic between Shia and a victoria's secret model = The verbal sparring between the Avengers. Oh you.

[PhoncipleBone]

Did a bit of digging, you'll find this interesting: http://www.awn.com/articles/effects-...ar-side-worldi

That's neat, but in this movie's case I'd rather not lift the veil. :P

It is a testament to the job that everyone involved in that movie did that we were almost never questioning if it was real or not. Master level stuff.

[DominoKid]

I hate to disrupt the discussion you guys are having (actually I don't) but what's the deal with Capin America? I understand that he is from a different era but isn't he supposed to be a Super Soldier? Surely he should be able to do some amazing things no human can instead of thowing a shield? BTW I really enjoyed his 1 on 1 with Loky in the beginning Im just wondering about his power, not hating America mkay. And and what's the deal with the name? Superman is a very American character but it's not obvious so why is Capin so umm America? Is he even a popular character? Well whatever the case I only know of him from the Spiderman cartoon in the early 90s.

Captain America is a beast...compared to normal people.
It just so happens he's in the company of a god, a radiation mutated ragefreak and a robot suit.
He's not gonna look that awesome by comparison.

[KingK]

This movie had some pretty fucking nice ass-shots

[Hawkian]

The Avengers and Transformers are in the same bracket to me. It's not an insult or anything. It is what is.

Did you disagree with Spoony's review, then? He articulated so much of what I deeply feel about this film.

[Zoramon089]

The Avengers and Transformers are in the same bracket to me. It's not an insult or anything. It is what is.

. . .
I'm not sure if you're watching the same movies everyone else is

[artist]

This movie had some pretty fucking nice ass-shots

Yeah, the couple beside me were going ga-ga over Cap's behind.

[Dany M]

Just realized that neither Capt nor Thor go shirtless.

1 1/2 stars now.

[Xamdou]

This movie had some pretty fucking nice ass-shots

The best ones were from Shield Agent Maria Hill.

[KingK]

The Avengers and Transformers are in the same bracket to me. It's not an insult or anything. It is what is.

yeah, I'd agree with this. I mean, Avengers is probably one of the best in its bracket and obviously better than Transformers (well, the first Transformers might be pretty close to the Avengers), but it's not like it's on some other tier. It's still the kind of movie I would never go see in theaters if my friends didn't drag me there and I would prefer to wait until it's out on Netflix. I don't regret seeing it, but it's really nothing special.

The best ones were from Shield Agent Maria Hill.

She was the ship captain woman, right? Yeah, she had some really nice ones. Scar Jo's ass was fucking brilliant in this movie though.

[Escape Goat]

Just realized that neither Capt nor Thor go shirtless. 1 1/2 stars now.

Neither did Black Widow. .5 stars

[Good Job Bob]

Did you disagree with Spoony's review, then? He articulated so much of what I deeply feel about this film.

No, I agree with his assessment of why Avengers is better than the TF movies but they both still fall into that same summer movie spectacle bracket.

Avengers takes the typical summer movie formula and executes it pretty well --- it doesn't transcend it by any means.

Again, not an insult.

[Tobor]

The Avengers and Transformers are in the same bracket to me. It's not an insult or anything. It is what is.

It's a huge insult. Michael Bay movies are hot garbage. The Avengers was a great movie. Garbage and great movies are not in the same bracket.

[ReiGun]

Just read "The Infinity Gauntlet". The badassness of Thanos becoming a god is greatly lessened by the fact he did it just for a chick. He spends most of his time whining cause Mistress Death didn't want his bitchass. It was "putting the pussy on a pedestal" on a cosmic scale. He's all, "I killed 1/2 the universe for you, milady. Why won't you love me?! :'(" and she's all "Whatever man."

[PhoncipleBone]

Just read "The Infinity Gauntlet". The badassness of Thanos becoming a god is greatly lessened by the fact he did it just for a chick. He spends most of his time whining cause Mistress Death didn't want his bitchass. It was "putting the pussy on a pedestal" on a cosmic scale. He's all, "I killed 1/2 the universe for you, milady. Why won't you love me?! :'(" and she's all "Whatever man."

However, I do love what is ultimately his undoing.
Deep down, he knows he is unworthy of such power, and allows the good guys to win every time.

[J10]

I don't get what people mean when they say the first half of the film is slow. Did they expect two hours of action scenes? The first hour has the collapse of SHIELD headquarters, Loki's capture in Germany, and Thor Vs. Iron Man in it. That's not enough? Even those shitty Transformers films Avengers detractors erroneously lump it in with have significant moments of downtime between action scenes.

[XiaNaphryz]

There was a recent vfx breakdown presentation on the Avengers at the FMX 2012 conference this past week:

http://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/fmx-2012-day-three/

Weta’s Guy Williams began with a look at the Captain America jump from the Quinjet. We saw a before and after plate of Chris Edwards jumping onto a green bag. Because the shot was a oner following Cap down through the sky, Weta made the character completely digital for the whole shot, requiring roto-mation of the live action. To validate the process, they showed the client the shot, but only the CG version, and it was approved. We then saw breakdowns of the mountaintop scene with Thor and Loki, which featured projected matte paintings, and then the forest fight between Thor and Iron Man. One amazing shot features Thor being ground into a cliff face – a scene relying on some intial mocap for the action and then incredible levels of animation and effects, cloth sims and compositing to realize. Weta also worked on Hawkeye’s arrival at the Helicarrier and the subsequent engine explosion. The fluid sim for that ran for 36 hours and used deep compositing for the many layers of explosions, particles and debris. An impressive addition to the aftermath of the destruction on the Helicarrier were bubbled panels caused by the heat which were created by using edge maps for the ship’s panels and putting a large frequency distortion on them. Some nice volumetric clouds breakdowns were a feature of those Helicarrier shots, too.

ILM visual effects supervisor Jeff White then began a quickfire presentation of his studio’s work – we just saw so many shots of the New York battle, the aliens (with faces added late in the game), Hulk and Iron Man. The Leviathans were particularly interesting since ILM had to make them an armoured flying worm with a ‘nougaty’ soft centre, and sell their enormous sense of scale. They also had to add what White called a ‘sushi platter’ of Leviathan guts whenever one was destroyed. We saw breakdowns of the New York scenes, including the panoramic HDR photography set-ups made over an eight week shoot (garnering 275,000 images) and how ILM used a NY model lined up to their photography to solve what was viewable in each shot. All the little details were there too – plantboxes, sandwich boards, traffic lights, cars, cars with doors open to show a city that was being evacuated in panic and police cars (which had the benefit of having flashing lights, a good way to show movement). 360s of the environments could also then be pinned onto Iron Man, say, to help with reflections. For Hulk, White showed a very cool reference shoot of ‘Green Steve’, a muscly stand-in painted green who performed many of the moves seen in the final film on set (we also saw a much smaller Green Steve for scenes shot in Ohio). Breakdowns here included the skin texture shoot, Lightstage set-up, dental moulds, cloth sims, vein maps, lifecast of Mark Ruffalo and the unique rig to highlight Hulk’s eyes which were darkened by his large brow (it was interesting to hear that in live action often torches are shone onto actor’s eyes to highlight them, too).

[Good Job Bob]

It's a huge insult. Michael Bay movies are hot garbage. The Avengers was a great movie. Garbage and great movies are not in the same bracket.

Compare the third act of TF3 with the third act of Avengers.

They absolutely fall into the same bracket; why do you think people like Spoony and etc compare Avengers to Transformers in the first place?

[Blader5489]

Compare the third act of TF3 with the third act of Avengers. They absolutely fall into the same bracket; why do you think people like Spoony and etc compare Avengers to Transformers in the first place?

Because it's an easy and superficial comparison to make that requires zero additional thought.

[nomis]

It's a huge insult. Michael Bay movies are hot garbage. The Avengers was a great movie. Garbage and great movies are not in the same bracket.

Ya brah, but it's not cerebral and melancholic like The Dark Knight. I think it might be garbage... levity is for bitches.

Because it's an easy and superficial comparison to make that requires zero additional thought.

Superficial is precisely what I call the TF3 comparison. Oh, you're telling me there's a portal beam shooting into the sky and big spiny robot creatures flying around a city among aliens? Well if you ignore every single other factor that makes a movie a movie, I guess they're identical.

[Good Job Bob]

Because it's an easy and superficial comparison to make that requires zero additional thought.

Have you listened to his review/comparison?

[Dead]

Compare the third act of TF3 with the third act of Avengers. They absolutely fall into the same bracket, without question really; why do you think people like Spoony and etc compare Avengers to Transformers in the first place?

You can't be serious. The pacing, structure and climax alone puts the last 30 minutes of Avengers leagues ahead of TF3s.

TF3s last 30-45 minutes was simply a scattershot collection of random action sequences without an ounce of thought poured into pacing, the entire setpiece was poorly structured, with characters disappearing for the sake of convenience, events being glossed over, etc.

[MrGame&Watch]

I just saw this movie for the first time tonight at a Drive In theater.

It was decent, but fuck drive-ins, no wonder they don't really exist anymore.

[Good Job Bob]

You can't be serious. The pacing, structure and climax alone puts the last 30 minutes of Avengers leagues ahead of TF3s. TF3s last 30-45 minutes was simply a scattershot collection of random action sequences without an ounce of thought poured into pacing, the entire setpiece was poorly structured, with characters disappearing for the sake of convenience, events being glossed over, etc.

Point is that their is a marked similarity between the two last acts, even if one is executed better than the otther

[the chris]

You can't be serious. The pacing, structure and climax alone puts the last 30 minutes of Avengers leagues ahead of TF3s. TF3s last 30-45 minutes was simply a scattershot collection of random action sequences without an ounce of thought poured into pacing, the entire setpiece was poorly structured, with characters disappearing for the sake of convenience, events being glossed over, etc.

Yea, but they both had explosions so it's exactly the same.

[J10]

Compare the third act of TF3 with the third act of Avengers. They absolutely fall into the same bracket; why do you think people like Spoony and etc compare Avengers to Transformers in the first place?

With a couple exceptions I think; Avengers action was shot and edited coherently and the character designs aren't nauseating. Michael Bay shoots too close, doesn't hold the camera still enough, cuts too fast, and leaves too vague an impression of where the robots are in relation to each other and their surroundings. The Avengers does not really suffer from any of that. There's a clear difference I think in the overall quality of the action being staged.

[DrForester]

Compare the third act of TF3 with the third act of Avengers. They absolutely fall into the same bracket; why do you think people like Spoony and etc compare Avengers to Transformers in the first place?

There's certainly a visual similarity, but that's all. The audience is much more engaged with the characters, you can see much more easily what is going on, and the action in Avengers is far better paced, and not an action scene for the sake of it.

[marrec]

Because it's an easy and superficial comparison to make that requires zero additional thought.

You're missing the point of the comparison. TF3 was a bag of smashed asshole yes we all agree. But Avengers took what TF3 was trying to do and perfected it. Made it into art, despite the fact it was basically the last part of TF3, it's an achievement and should be applauded.

[Dead]

There is also a marked similarity between The New World and Disney's Pocahontas.

similar content doesn't equate to the two being anywhere near the same bracket

[Divvy]

I just saw this movie for the first time tonight at a Drive In theater. It was decent, but fuck drive-ins, no wonder they don't really exist anymore.

What's wrong with drive-ins? They're still neat for the novelty factor. Though I wouldn't go to one if I cared at all about image/sound quality like I would for the Avengers.

Also, I saw Drive in a Drive-in.

[Good Job Bob]

You're missing the point of the comparison. TF3 was a bag of smashed asshole yes we all agree. But Avengers took was TF3 was trying to do and perfected it. Made it into art, despite the fact it was basically the last part of TF3, it's an achievement and should be applauded.

Pretty much.

[jett]

Uncharted 2 did Transdongers 3's climax better anyway.

[Juancho9]

No, I agree with his assessment of why Avengers is better than the TF movies but they both still fall into that same summer movie spectacle bracket. Avengers takes the typical summer movie formula and executes it pretty well --- it doesn't transcend it by any means. Again, not an insult.

It's a huge insult. Explain the formula.

[SuicideUZI]

However, I do love what is ultimately his undoing. Deep down, he knows he is unworthy of such power, and allows the good guys to win every time.

they need to put that series on the marvel app

[nomis]

Point is that their is a marked similarity between the two last acts, even if one is executed better than the otther

A marked similarity between the visual staging of each final act has literally nothing to do with it's "quality tier" as a summer blockbuster or whatever the fuck.

[Good Job Bob]

I thought you guys were fine with Avengers being a fun, summer movie spectacle type film --- now that you realize Transformers falls into the same bracket you reject it?

[PhoncipleBone]

they need to put that series on the marvel app

Available on Nook. Not sure why it is not available on the Marvel app on other things.

[marrec]

I thought you guys were fine with Avengers being a fun, summer movie spectacle type film --- now that you realize Transformers falls into the same bracket you reject it?

I don't understand the rejection either. Avengers isn't trying to be anything besides a fun summer blockbuster and I for one am very glad for it. It was a fantastic movie that I'll be buying and watching quite a bit, but it's not anything more than a Comic Book movie.

[ThatCrazyGuy]

What's the point being argued? That that third act of TF3 is sorta like the third act of Avengers?

They kinda are, with space portals in big cities, and aliens coming through I would say in that regard and parties being separated and fighting.

Avengers is so much better executed though. Both are the same type of movie. DOTM done wrong, Avengers done right (imo).

I hope TF4 can come close to how Avengers turned out (it has the godlike CG already, heh) in terms of being a good summer blockbuster type of movie.

But who knows if Bay will change, DOTM made alot of money.

[jett]

I thought you guys were fine with Avengers being a fun, summer movie spectacle type film --- now that you realize Transformers falls into the same bracket you reject it?

Transformers is an example of a shitty summer movie spectacle movie. Stop grouping Avengers with it.

[Tobor]

Avengers: fun, summer movie spectacle

Transformers: nauseating, summer movie shit pile

Two separate brackets.

[suracity]

Oh I see the similarity here..

It's "summer"...

[nomis]

I thought you guys were fine with Avengers being a fun, summer movie spectacle type film --- now that you realize Transformers falls into the same bracket you reject it?

What do you call a "bracket"? Has action setpieces, released between April and August?

[XiaNaphryz]

Damnit, it seems like whenever I try to post something neat the thread is stuck in some shitty "debate." Caspel was right, everyone would be better just to keep him on ignore.