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Archie
Second-rate Anihawk
(04-20-2012, 01:06 PM)
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http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/...y-with-a-twist

Speaking on a yet to be released podcast shared by the producers early with Polygon, Newell told Seven Day Cooldown that the PC and Mac-compatible real-time strategy game will use a free-to-play funding model, but one that hasn't been used in any other game before.

"It's going to be free-to-play -- it'll have some twists, but that's the easiest way for people to think about it," Newell said.

When prodded over what kind of twists players can expect, Newell said:

"The issue that we're struggling with quite a bit is something I've kind of talked about before, which is how do you properly value people's contributions to a community?

"We're trying to figure out ways so that people who are more valuable to everybody else [are] recognized and accommodated. We all know people where if they're playing we want to play, and there are other people where if they're playing we would [rather] be on the other side of the planet.

"It's just a question of coming up with mechanisms that recognize and reward people who are doing things that are valuable to other groups of people."

Newell provided examples of behavior that would be rewarded, such as players who are useful guides or those who volunteer their time to train others. He said he could not point to an existing free-to-play model that works like the model that Valve has in mind for DOTA 2. He did not specify how valued players would be identified or rewarded.

Newell added that he wants to see this kind of reward system expand into other games.

"When you start thinking about the different games that people play and you try to think about how people can create value or a service in one game and benefit somebody in a different game, you can start to see how the different games sort knit together," Newell said.

"[You can see] how somebody who really likes Team Fortress 2 (TF2) can still be creating value for somebody who is playing DOTA 2 or Skyrim, or if somebody is a creator in one space how it can translate into another.

"In a sense, think of individual games as instance dungeons of a larger experience, if that makes sense as a concept."

When asked if this move towards connecting people in games means that Steam is in the process of morphing into a kind of social network, Newell said that Valve is not looking to turn Steam into a social network, at least not in the traditional sense of the word.

"Most of the time when people try to ask us questions like that, they usually have really specific things in mind that don't map exactly to what we have in mind," he said.

Moaradin
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(04-20-2012, 01:07 PM)
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We all knew it would be free to play, but nice to have a confirmation. I hope they use a system like TF2.
Nibel
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(04-20-2012, 01:08 PM)
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Valve twists are always a good thing in my book.
Kifimbo
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(04-20-2012, 01:09 PM)
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Hats ?
Mr Touchdown
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(04-20-2012, 01:10 PM)
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Sounds good Gaben.
Randdalf
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(04-20-2012, 01:10 PM)
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Meh, not a fan of the F2P model, but then again, Valve are the only ones to have done it right, with TF2.
Dead Prince
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(04-20-2012, 01:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kifimbo

Hats ?

hats!
Visualante2
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(04-20-2012, 01:20 PM)
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Free works for me, it's a game I'd definitely pay full retail for, if the game ends up being worse as a freemium product I'm way less inclined to continue playing. /casual Dota 2 player
Xyphie
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(04-20-2012, 01:21 PM)
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As long as they don't charge per hero (or at least give me the option to buy all of them in bulk for a reasonable price, say $30-40) I'm fine with F2P. The thing that completely turned me off on LoL/F2P HoN was that you had to pay like $10 each for the situational "1-in-50-games" picks or grind one million games for them.
The_Darkest_Red
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(04-20-2012, 01:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kifimbo

Hats ?

Too predictable.
hamchan
Member
(04-20-2012, 01:22 PM)
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Free hats for being a nice person.
Phonomezer
Banned
(04-20-2012, 01:23 PM)
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$500 hats.
glaurung
Member
(04-20-2012, 01:24 PM)
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Retroactive hats based on the person's games library and TF2 hat exchange program.

Plus new hats with better textures being sold starting at 19.99.
snoopeasystreet
Member
(04-20-2012, 01:25 PM)
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every time you buy something on steam, you get an unlock in DotA 2.
stupei
Don't modulate the key then not debate with me.
(04-20-2012, 01:25 PM)
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If this system results in more people who at least pretend to be patient while teaching how to actually play a game like Dota... well, that'd make me happy at least, even if niceness and calm isn't really what Dota is all about.
Takamura-San
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(04-20-2012, 01:28 PM)
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I would pay for a button that would make me suck less at the game :(
Glass Rebel
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(04-20-2012, 01:32 PM)
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I just won 20 of microtransactions in this game due to a bet :lol
Corto
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(04-20-2012, 01:34 PM)
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Gabe will pays us to play it? That would be a pretty awesome twist.
Zeliard
(04-20-2012, 01:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Randdalf

Meh, not a fan of the F2P model, but then again, Valve are the only ones to have done it right, with TF2.

Tribes Ascend's F2P model seems to be solid.
Pai Pai Master
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(04-20-2012, 01:35 PM)
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Considering he specifically cites TF2 and Skyrim, the monetization model obviously has something to do with Steam Workshop.
Archie
Second-rate Anihawk
(04-20-2012, 01:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Glass Rebel

I just won 20 of microtransactions in this game due to a bet :lol

I won a bet too. :)

Originally Posted by Zeliard

Tribes Ascend's F2P model seems to be solid.

Tribes has good models on paper, but it is a bit too grindy for my taste. I doubt you will have to unlock meaningful content (aka heroes) in Dota 2 and it will probably have an item drop system similar to TF2.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
(04-20-2012, 01:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xyphie

As long as they don't charge per hero (or at least give me the option to buy all of them in bulk for a reasonable price, say $30-40) I'm fine with F2P. The thing that completely turned me off on LoL/F2P HoN was that you had to pay like $10 each for the situational "1-in-50-games" picks or grind one million games for them.



They would never charge for a hero. Half of the game is about counter picking. It would break dota
we.are.the.armada
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(04-20-2012, 01:41 PM)
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I imagine it might be something similar to World of Warcraft's dungeon finder for pivotal classes - the idea is that helpful/necessary players don't want to play with scrubs but if they do provide a provisional component in the dungeon finder they get a reward.

I have a feeling that DOTA 2's reward will tie into the F2P system, perhaps the reward is something worth in-game store credit or hats.

Also, I love the way this guy talks:

"We're trying to figure out ways so that people who are more valuable to everybody else [are] recognized and accommodated. We all know people where if they're playing we want to play, and there are other people where if they're playing we would [rather] be on the other side of the planet."
Davidion
Rambunctious Rogue
yet
Regrets his Tag
(04-20-2012, 01:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by stupei

If this system results in more people who at least pretend to be patient while teaching how to actually play a game like Dota... well, that'd make me happy at least, even if niceness and calm isn't really what Dota is all about.

This could be big. Valve has been rather vocal about addressing the community issue that Dota/MOBA games are famous for, and it'd really be interesting to see them work this issue into a monetization model.
Valnen
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(04-20-2012, 01:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by stupei

If this system results in more people who at least pretend to be patient while teaching how to actually play a game like Dota... well, that'd make me happy at least, even if niceness and calm isn't really what Dota is all about.

I actually like the idea of a system that rewards nice people and punishes assholes, the horrible communities are what's holding these games back.
Glass Rebel
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(04-20-2012, 01:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Archie

I won a bet too. :)

*brofist*

When I build my computer in August and get stomped by GAF I'm gonna go out in style at least.
hamchan
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(04-20-2012, 01:45 PM)
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Indeed, people pretending to be nice to get rewards is better than every match being full of rage.
Visualante2
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(04-20-2012, 01:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Archie

I won a bet too. :)



Tribes has good models on paper, but it is a bit too grindy for my taste. I doubt you will have to unlock meaningful content (aka heroes) in Dota 2 and it will probably have an item drop system similar to TF2.

Really? Compared to Battlefield/equivalent Tribes is a fucking holiday to me. You can max out a class fairly quickly, and it isn't always teaching you useless techniques/tools that will be superseded. I have a fairly specific play style though, I'm only interested in 2 classes.
Zeliard
(04-20-2012, 01:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Archie

Tribes has good models on paper, but it is a bit too grindy for my taste. I doubt you will have to unlock meaningful content (aka heroes) in Dota 2 and it will probably have an item drop system similar to TF2.

Tribes' additional weapons are XP-intensive so paying for them tends to be the best option, but throwing any money at them gets you a permanent 50% boost in XP, and I really like the fact that upgrades can only be bought through XP. Unlocking classes is also pretty cheap XP-wise.

I expect DotA 2 to go a different route, but Tribes' model seems fine.
Erasus
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(04-20-2012, 01:50 PM)
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Good. I like F2P.

Just got an invite too
Archie
Second-rate Anihawk
(04-20-2012, 01:50 PM)
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Re: Tribes: I spent $10 on Tribes and got the VIP bonus, but I got frustrated trying to save 100k EXP for the TCN Thumper.

Also, jerks will likely have to pay a jerk tax. From the item schema:

“item_name”: “Repentant Soul”
“item_description”: “A crystal containing the soul of a saint. Use it to immediately exit the low priority punishment queue. This does not clear leaves or reports from your account.”

Last edited by Archie; 04-20-2012 at 01:54 PM.
Ikuu
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(04-20-2012, 01:54 PM)
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There is no way Valve are going to charge for heroes, the game isn't designed with the model in mind (like LoL) and it'll just piss off the majority of the community.
Des0lar
will learn eventually
(04-20-2012, 01:55 PM)
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Pretty much expected but nontheless great news.

F2P games have the one great bonus, that I can easily convince my friends to at least try it. They would have never payed money for Dota or Tribes, but being F2P it's easy to get them hooked.

Originally Posted by Archie

Re: Tribes: I spent $10 on Tribes and got the VIP bonus, but I got frustrated trying to save 100k EXP for the TCN Thumper.

Also, jerks will likely have to pay a jerk tax. From the item schema:

Only problem I see is that you will often be reportet for feeding just because you are new to the game. That sucks because you have done nothing wrong.
Last edited by Des0lar; 04-20-2012 at 01:58 PM.
Angry Fork
Spelling is Hard
(04-20-2012, 01:57 PM)
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Gabe has talked about this before, he threw out an idea of charging people if they ruin other players experience like say mic spamming. It was said in jest but the principle is there. Reward people who take the time to help others and enrich the experience/community, cast aside/punish those who fuck things up.

As someone with Marxist sympathies Gabe/Valve is right up my alley. Valve seems to be managed as a Commune rather than the capitalist hierarchical archetype that other devs/companies are run on. Gabe practically said as much in a recent podcast/interview somewhere I forgot where. I wish I could work there as they have the right idea on how to get along with others and produce the best work together.
snoopen
Member
(04-20-2012, 01:58 PM)
Have spent 30 hours on the beta.. Doesn't matter what 'costs' there are associated, people will be addicted.
UnluckyKate
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(04-20-2012, 02:01 PM)
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Tribes model would be nice or LoL too.

With Hats.
Glass Rebel
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(04-20-2012, 02:04 PM)
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I just want to buy a Gaben skin for you know who.
Mechazawa
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(04-20-2012, 02:04 PM)
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So they're going to charge for coats as well.
Conceptor
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(04-20-2012, 02:05 PM)
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We're trying to figure out ways so that people who are more valuable to everybody else [are] recognized and accommodated. We all know people where if they're playing we want to play, and there are other people where if they're playing we would [rather] be on the other side of the planet.

Didn't doubt it was going f2p, interested in seeing how this works out though. I generally like the recommendation model they've got set up but you still see lots of people in game try to farm with other strangers so..

The way that first part of the quote is set up makes me hope that they're working on some added feature to bring the competitive, well-known players into a larger spotlight. That is, being able to tell when NA/European/Asian players are on and in game, not just from the number of specs on the front page. Quite a few of them also happen to stream on a regular basis and make money from it, so some kinda integration with twitch/own3d/whatever would be cool too

+ wtb Tobi Wan announcer pack Gaben
Last edited by Conceptor; 04-20-2012 at 04:44 PM.
Acosta
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(04-20-2012, 02:05 PM)
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The twist is that it will be free but exclusive for the iBox.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
(04-20-2012, 02:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by UnluckyKate

Tribes model would be nice or LoL too.

With Hats.




The LoL model is pretty horrible for players. I'm glad we won't be seeing that with DotA 2.
Archie
Second-rate Anihawk
(04-20-2012, 02:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Glass Rebel

I just want to buy a Gaben skin for you know who.

"Ahh...Episode three!"
sohois
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(04-20-2012, 02:06 PM)
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Reckon they'll go for a combined F2P/Subscription model, where subscribing basically unlocks all the content automatically which one would otherwise have to pay for if they were just a standard F2P account.
speedpop
Has problems recognising girls
(04-20-2012, 02:07 PM)
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Some of his comments in the past remind me of the TF2 coaching system - which is great in application but there were some kinks they still needed to iron out.

There was something satisfying about helping a newer player actually perform better by watching over them and handing out advice. I really should do that more.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
(04-20-2012, 02:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by sohois

Reckon they'll go for a combined F2P/Subscription model, where subscribing basically unlocks all the content automatically which one would otherwise have to pay for if they were just a standard F2P account.




It will be much like the TF2 model, but with a reward and punishment system in place. Find loot in games, combine into other things, or buy/trade them.
zoukka
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(04-20-2012, 02:08 PM)
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Haha imagine if a big game some day punished trolls and just your plain idiots/badmouths. I want to live and see that day.
speedpop
Has problems recognising girls
(04-20-2012, 02:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by zoukka

Haha imagine if a big game some day punished trolls and just your plain idiots/badmouths. I want to live and see that day.

The systems are in place in many games. The only problem is the fact that you need admins available and/or it was abused at times.

Perhaps if Valve magically nailed down something without having compromise issues then it would be amazing.
mrbagdt
Member
(04-20-2012, 02:13 PM)
i really hope this all works out... im skeptical of f2p... i feel like you need a certain cost of entry just to keep the trolls out, and enjoying moba games is much more reliant on other players than something like tribes. i guess ill just wait and see what comes of it.
Tesseract
Banned
(04-20-2012, 02:15 PM)
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maybe the very best players become paid coaches. is this too far out there for thought?
grkazan12
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(04-20-2012, 02:16 PM)
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God seeing all the beta talk and footage has me feeling all envious. Has Valve or Gabe ever talked about a possible release date. Never played a MOBA before, but I love the look and UI that they crafted.

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