[Truant]

They used to be a rock band, now they're more of an event band, that plays at the olympics and stuff. It's about the show, not the music.

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Woah, someone in the flat a bit along from me just put on New Born. The riff is kicking in as I write this.

[Tunavi]

I'm not gonna say it's never a valid argument, but saying something is "dumbed down for the masses" is pretty much the definition of a "hipster" complaint.

Well you have to admit there is a definitely a correlation between more accessible music and simple poppy music.

Starlight is not why I started listening to Muse, but people LOVE that song. They changed and I didn't like the change.

[Gouty]

Whatever you wanna call it it's quite clearly the truth in most cases.

The only thing thats true in most cases is that people's opinion change about a band after they've released a massively popular album.

All these bands didn't miraculously lose their ability to produce high quality music, they simply aren't the same sounds that attracted their earlier fans.

Early fans often can't tolerate the change and resent the band for their explosive popularity.

[Emerson]

Well you have to admit there is a definitely a correlation between more accessible music and simple poppy music. Starlight is not why I started listening to Muse, but people LOVE that song. They changed and I didn't like the change.

Personally I like both Starlight and some of their older songs. I enjoy them for different reasons. Starlight is definitely poppy and catchy (which can be a good thing) but not the most amazing song I've ever heard either. Their older stuff is less accessible and (moreso, IMO) enjoyable for other reasons.

There is certainly music I find to be horrible, but I think fans of bands like this often exaggerate. You can enjoy different kinds of music.

[TheMan]

i bought absolution back in 04, and it was the first album I've ever REALLY liked upon first listen and didn't grow tired of quickly. Then I discovered OoS and that was fantastic too.

Fast forward to the release of the Resistance, and oh boy was I ever disappointed. It's almost like they took all the songs I didn't like from their previous albums and made a whole album like that. I'm cautiously optimistic that their next release will be good (as someone mentioned earlier, Absolution 2 would be fucking fantanstic), but realistically, Muse will fully descend into bullshit wankery and remain there until they break up.

[Treefingers]

The only thing thats true in most cases is that people's opinion change about a band after they've released a massively popular album. All these bands didn't miraculously lose their ability to produce high quality music, they simply aren't the same sounds that attracted their earlier fans. Early fans often can't tolerate the change and resent the band for their explosive popularity.

Of course they don't lose their ability, whether they put that ability into an album is another matter.

No, early fans generally stop liking the music because a band changes their sound or style into one they don't enjoy, coincidentally many bands do this to gain popularity within the mainstream.

Muse wasn't underground before The Resistance. I liked most of Black Holes.

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

I quite like Starlight, and they've done "poppy" songs since they started: Time is Running Out and Plug-in Baby are both good examples of this. The thing is, these songs were great regardless. The problems with their current stuff has nothing to do with it sounding too "poppy".

[nskinnear]

As a huge fan of rock music, its getting harder and harder to take these kinds of discussions seriously. The reason being everyone is suddenly a critic when a band makes a huge record. Every single time. What's everyone's opinion of U2 after the Joshua Tree? What's everyone's opinion of Coldplay after A Rush of Blood To The Head? What's everyone's opinion of Metallica after the Black Album? What's everyone's opinion of The Kings of Leon after Only By The Night? What's everyone's opinion of Red Hot Chili Peppers after Californication? What's everyone's opinion of Smashing Pumpkins after Mellon Collie? What's everyone's opinion of Green Day after American Idiot?

What separates the great bands from the good/average bands is the ability to follow up a great album with something of the same or better quality.
I know it's a "hipster" thing to say that bands sellout, but they do. And it's disappointing to fans.

[Auron_Kale]

What's everyone's opinion of Coldplay after A Rush of Blood To The Head?

Not to derail, but I felt that X&Y was much stronger than ARoBttH personally. VLV was a great album too. Still need to listen to their latest album though.

[Gouty]

What separates the great bands from the good/average bands is the ability to follow up a great album with something of the same or better quality. I know it's a "hipster" thing to say that bands sellout, but they do. And it's disappointing to fans.

They sold out the minuet they signed with a major label or sold a t shirt at a concert.

Every one of those bands went on to produce extremely high quality music after their mega album but nobody wants to give the Loads, No Line On The Horizons and By The Ways a chance because of who made the music.

If those had been debut albums by bands nobody has heard of they'd be blown away.

[Stinkles]

I have never found bands "fall" anywhere near as hard as people in general do. I love Resistance and Black Holes. The Dr. WHo homage is one of my favorite things ever. I am probably too forgiving.

If there's a science at play, then it's that fans like a band because they sound "new." and when they don't sound as "new" next time around, for obvious reasons, they suffer in comparison. Whereas I tend to enjoy the sound more than the novelty. (not that the two things are unconnected)

Sucks for me to run around enjoying things more than you guys.

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Exogenesis songs are great.

[Banana Kid]

I think Black Holes and Revelations is fantastic.

I love some of their older stuff, but nothing's ever really topped Knights of Cydonia in my mind.

[RobotNinjaHornets]

They sold out the minuet they signed with a major label or sold a t shirt at a concert.

I think the whole selling out thing is total shit but...erm...what?

[lethial]

Man I remember when GAF had a total wank fest for this band. You could be talking about war and someone would bring up how much Muse rocks. Where's your Muse now, bitch?

[Willkiller]

They sold out the minuet they signed with a major label or sold a t shirt at a concert. Every one of those bands went on to produce extremely high quality music after their mega album but nobody wants to give the Loads, No Line On The Horizons and By The Ways a chance because of who made the music. If those had been debut albums by bands nobody has heard of they'd be blown away.

You're telling me this isn't fucking awesome?

[Druz]

I liked The Resistance. Less than their other albums but still... enjoyed MK ULTRA and Unnatural Selection(and of course Exogenesis)

[captainnapalm]

Origin of Symmetry was an incredible album. I remember one reviewer describing the music as evoking the image of a powerful alien queen standing on the bridge of her gigantic starship, about to launch an armada into battle.

They probably haven't hit those heights again, but I like Uprising a lot and that's fairly recent. Kickass protest song.

[Auron_Kale]

Exogenesis songs are great.

One of the standouts on Resistance. Also loved hearing 'Nocturne' being played at the end of United States of Eurasia - that was really neat moment. MK Ultra made the album for me as far as 'old Muse' is concerned.

[Lennington]

They sold out the minuet they signed with a major label or sold a t shirt at a concert.

I've been at countless EP launches by unsigned bands, and many of them try to sell t-shirts or other merch. It's a common thing, studio time & decent production can be expensive.

[-Eddman-]

I don't think they're horrible or that they are "sellouts" now, only that their last 2 albums were really uninspired. Nothing worth mentioning outside the hit singles.

Absolution is a fantastic album, probably my favorite from them. In my opinion it sounds like some kind of spiritual successor to the "conventional rocker" side that Radiohead abandoned after OK Computer.

[CooTooLoo]

^ always thought they had a Radiohead feel to them. Bellamy's voice is almost exactly like Yorkes to me, except Bellamy is a "better singer".

I don't share the same opinion as the OP.. I saw Muse not too long ago with Silversun Pickups on their Resistance tour and they played all my old favorites along with the new stuff that I really like.. Matthew Bellamy did all kinds of cool stuff like a 10 minute drum solo, sang into the mic with a megaphone in one hand while playing piano with the other, bassist did a 10 minute bass solo while smoking a cigarette and threw it in the crowd (I hate smoking but thought that was awesome), etc.

I think the problem is Stephanie Meyer and Twilight. They use their songs in the movies and the author has said that Muse is her favorite band, so I feel like they are influenced by that crowd for sure.

[close to the edge]

Woah, someone in the flat a bit along from me just put on New Born. The riff is kicking in as I write this.

Great song. It's really weird listening to Muse now because I listened to their music pretty excessively for almost a year (at least it feels like that long in my memory) and then moved on. Now their music reminds me of a very specific period in my life. It's a really strange feeling. For example, I'm listening to New Born right now and it evokes a very specific image in my mind, playing RtCW: Enemy Territory on that snow map. Really weird. I don't have that with a lot of other music. Origin of Symmetry is their best album I think.

[Kalnos]

Got into them just before Absolution. I was a bit disappointed by Black Holes but Resistance just disappointed the fuck out of me.

[Shiloa]

Used to be a massive Muse fan, but I've simply felt they have faded a bit. I don't think their quality has necessarily gone down, I just think that they have evolved quite naturally. Showbiz was very Radiohead, OoS took it to the next level, they ran with the spacey themes in Absolution, culminating in BHaR. Resistance was a newish start I thought, perhaps more of an album Bellamy wanted to make, as opposed to an album they had to make.

[Dark FaZe]

Resistance was a disappointment but there are still a good 4 or 5 good songs on the album. This thread needs to wait until they drop 2 bad albums in a row. Hasn't really happened yet.

[Gouty]

Why was everyone highlighting the portion where I mention selling a shirt but not signing with a major label?

Can someone put a dollar amount at which point a band crosses a line and becomes a sell out?

I want an actual figure.

The point I was making is that selling out has nothing to do with any amount of money gained from their art, be it small or large.

The moment an artist doesn't make exactly the album THEY want to make is the moment they become a sellout.

edit: my original statement was meant to call the "sellout" term mostly horseshit and I did a poor job of it.

[MuseManMike]

Their sound has changed and it has changed for the worse. Chris has simply come out and said sometimes a band has to sell their souls and that they did. The most noticeable decline has been in Matt's guitar work -- in that -- there is none, well, not really. It feels contrived and forced; the riffs simply do not have the same kick they had once before. Undisclosed Desires is an unparalleled travesty that's hard for me to listen to. Hell, I've listened to the whole of "Resistance" a total of maybe three times; whereas, I've listened to OoS and Absolution for what is hundreds and hundreds of hours at this point. If you've discovered Muse recently and you liked Resistance; they are so far from the band that made this that it is saddening. Of course bands change over time and fans adapt or lose interest. I had no problem when Metallica, Linkin Park, [INSERT BAND HERE] did just that. Their music became different, but not necessarily worse -- the same cannot be said for Muse. This next album is without question a make-or-break album for me as a long-time fan.

Edit: The Radiohead comparisons have always been a little stupid. Both leads sing in the higher registers and there are maybe three or four songs that sound similar, but on a musical and technical level, Muse could not be more different.

[Zyzyxxz]

Not the greatest fan of their newest CD but I will keep listening for their old tracks.

[Ezduo]

I don't know, Black Holes is my favorite of theirs but Resistance definitely didn't live up to my expectations. Which isn't to say it's a bad album, the first part of Exogenesis may just be my favorite song by them and there are some other decent moments scattered throughout by as an overall album it's lacking. Won't stop me from listening to their next album though and I'll be surprised if I don't find some things on it I don't like. We'll see. Coldplay kind of had that slow decline for me as well starting with X&Y which wasn't a bad album but wasn't as good as their first two and continued with La Vida eventually culminating in their newest one which has totally neutered any interest I have in Coldplay's future output. At that pace Muse should have one or two more albums in them that I'll be able to tolerate.

[Dave Inc.]

I was at their show in the Cotton Club in Atlanta. The one that was completely fucking awesome in a tiny venue for 4 songs and then Matt broke his face open on his guitar during the intro to Citizen Erased.

Muse cred out of the way, their music really did take a turn from their roots. I'm sure some people like it but it's not what older fans either expect or seem to particularly want.

[FrenchMovieTheme]

resistance was fucking horrible for the most part. i did like MK Ultra and United states but beyond that, a bunch of bullshit. i mean listen to this fucking crap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWTuKd2lTo4

it sounds like a fucking aaliyah song or something. i don't know what happened to muse. loved the first 2 albums, even loved the 3rd album (take a bow is one of their best songs ever, but there were a few stinkers on the album) but resistance.... god damn, what a horrible fall.

not expecting much from muse ever again

[bengraven]

All those records were dumbed down for the masses, it's not a "hipster" thing.

[JLG-]

[Doctor West]

I stopped listening to them when they hitched their wagon to Twilight. I couldn't care less what happens to them now.

[lobdale]

I've been a Muse fan since 2001 or so, what the heck is wrong with The Resistance? It pushes more toward the classical type influences that have always been there, a little less aggressive but still a totally listenable album.

[Randdalf]

I get kind of annoyed at all their songs talking about "us" and "them", really flimsy conspiracy theory stuff. The Resistance was self-produced and dayum if it wasn't totally self-indulgent tosh. Black Holes and Revelations was actually pretty amazing for me at the time, especially when I saw them play the entire thing live as one piece, then play a set of older songs chronologically, starting with "Sunburn" which is a fantastic song. I absolutely hated "Starlight" though, and was gobsmacked when it became their biggest ever song to date, because man that song sucks so much.

But yeah, they goofed up with The Resistance in my opinion.

[Tenck]

This is my favorite Muse performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3T2sOOtNlw

Haha at first I was like "That can't be Matt at the drums."

Then I saw all of them switched instruments :P

[Schweini]

What?! They are still pretty awesome. I think we should wait for their next album to judge if and how far they really 'fell'.

I enjoyed the hell out of Resistance.

[PezDispenser]

I saw them live in NYC in 2004 (or 2005? can't remember) at the Bowery Ballroom. I showed up late with no ticket, and was still able to get one at the door.

It was eight bucks to get in, and there were around 200 people there tops.

Then I paid something like 80 bucks to see them in 2010 at Jones beach.

Guess which experience was vastly superior to the other.

[Discotheque]

Resistance felt like it was recorded by a Muse parody band. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Black Holes is enjoyable but their prior albums were better.

[radioheadrule83]

Every album they've made since Origin of Symmetry is brilliant, this thread is bad, and all who are agreeing with it are bad and should feel bad.

Eurasia, MK Ultra, I Belong To You (the French bits anyway) and Exogenesis are all fantastic.

I can't wait for their new stuff!

[Schweini]

Every album they've made since Origin of Symmetry is brilliant, this thread is bad, and all who are agreeing with it are bad and should feel bad. Eurasia, MK Ultra, I Belong To You (the French bits anyway) and Exogenesis are all fantastic. I can't wait for their new stuff!

I once listened to Undisclosed Desires about 30 times in a row.

Eurasia is pretty awesome too, especially because it's Queen-esque.

[radioheadrule83]

I once listened to Undisclosed Desires about 30 times in a row. Eurasia is pretty awesome too, especially because it's Queen-esque.

The Queen sound on a bunch of songs was definitely intentional, and I've heard them interviewed about it and how they basically ended up howling with laughter after doing some takes -- I like that they had fun with it. I have fun listening to it!

[123rl]

I saw them on the Resistance tour and thought they were still amazing live /shrug I agree though the album was a very mixed bag, some of the tracks were really terrible.

Truth

I've been a fan for years. I've seen them several times, starting in 2002 and the last time was on their 2010 Resistance tour. They consistently put on one of the best live shows in the music industry. But I agree with everything said about their downfall: Resistance was horrible but that doesn't spoil the impact of their other albums

[Blake'sGrave]

Muse make me so sad now. They used to be my undisputed favourite band, then along came The Resistance and BOOM, mediocrity. Saw them at Reading festival last year and physically left to go see someone else, I never thought the day would come when I could willingly walk out of a Muse gig, but they drove me there with these horrible Queen rip offs and lazy songwriting. "Ooh, I've taken an entire section of this French opera and put it in a song!" "Oh Matt you're so original...." No. No he's not. He literally just took some music and re-used it.

edit: I'd still love to go back in time and see them on the OoS tour, back when they had some balls

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Hell, I consider Black Holes to be a pretty good album, it's only really with The Resistance that they've fallen hard and fast, in my opinion. One of the most disappointing albums I've ever bought. Absolution is my favourite album of theirs, although Origin of Symmetry comes pretty close.

Your opinion on the matter is 100% identical to me.

[demon]

Their first three albums (especially OoS and Absolution) were really fun, bombastic, crazy albums, but I could never consider them more than guilty pleasure music. Their lyrics are embarrassing, and they wouldn't know subtlety if it fucked them up the ass.

[Gentleman Jack]

A personal favorite - Muse should do more instrumental tracks. Or maybe I just have a weakness for the Theremin.