[cartman414]

Well. Not really. It's more about the overall experience of playing the game, and the visuals and audio is a big part of it. I find the direction of NSMB to be atrocious, personally, because it lacks the delicate refinement the series is known for. Like people have pointed out, SMW is not visually stunning (although it is sophisticated in its simplicity). But it had a feeling all of its own. The majority of the enemies were new. All the songs were new, and all the sound effects were new or remade in a fantastic artisanship of sound design. It felt complete on its own terms. In a strange way, it felt believable. It had integrity. The NSMB games by contrast are referential, with re-used assets straight out of the Mario sports games. Artistically, it's a hodge-podge. The "nudge nudge" nostalgia and recycled music and sound effects is completely gaudy in comparison. It doesn't stand on its own as a self-sufficient work of art, like the other Mario platformers do. It's all about the feeling. You can't rationalise true finesse.

Eh.

If it comes down to better gameplay vs. aesthetics, I'll almost always side with the former.

[Snkfanatic]

Awesome, will buy this for sure.

[Tookay]

Eh. If it comes down to better gameplay vs. aesthetics, I'll almost always side with the former.

... why is it an either/or thing exactly?

It's not like 25 years of Mario gameplay know-how gets thrown out the window the moment they make the decision to make the art GOOD.

[Zeer0id]

... why is it an either or thing exactly?

It doesn't sound like he meant that it was. One just takes precedence over the other.

[Azure Dream]

The colors seem richer / more saturated and the "plastic sheen" that was given to the art to make it seem to pop and look 3D (to match the 3D characters I guess) seems toned down. In other words, they tweaked the formula further, without abandoning the basic style. Which is what Nintendo does tend to do.

There's a difference between not abandoning the style, and recycling the old graphical assets with a few edits. New Super Mario Bros. Wii didn't reuse the DS graphics. But this game is cut-and-pasting the Wii game's graphics, not just stylistically, I mean literally. They're being edited a bit (the castle has a few of the windows changed and is crushed a bit vertically, the ground looks like it has a different shadowing part under the main line of grass), but they are the same assets being recycled.

I'm not saying the game will be bad. But doing things like that makes it feel phoned in, which is pretty weak for a numbered sequel. Yes, I know the Galaxy 2 comparisons, but Galaxy 2 was internally titled "Galaxy More" for the longest time because they knew it was just going to be a level pack. And even then the first screenshots of the game didn't scream "we copied over level stuff from the first game hope you don't mind."

[ViewtifulJC]

i think that when a platformer messes with going vertical, it almost always improves the level design. so flight in this game will probably lead to some promising things, and probably be more like nsmbw than nsmb1 because of it.

I'm always two minds about all the verticalness. I like exploring levels and finding hidden things the developers put in all the nooks and crannies of the game. But then I see people getting the cape in SMW and just flying over most of the stage, and I'm like, "Oh, you just bypass the platforming in the platformer. How is THAT fun?". Dude's getting the Racoon Tail and flying over most of the ship level, bypassing all the challenge. Meh.

IDK, I liked jumping on things in my platformers, personally, and just finding alternate paths/bonus rooms/collectibles off the beaten path. I love the concise, tight feel of a DKC or even NSMBWii, where I don't feel like I'm missing out on a bunch of shit because I'm not flying above the platforming looking for hidden paths.

And while I'm complaining about SM games, what's the deal with warp pipes/whistles/cannons? Why would I want to SKIP worlds!? Play less of the game!? Unless it's a really shitty world or something, otherwise that seems like a pretty undesirable bonus to try and get.

[Nocturnowl]

And while I'm complaining about SM games, what's the deal with warp pipes/whistles/cannons? Why would I want to SKIP worlds!? Play less of the game!? Unless it's a really shitty world or something, otherwise that seems like a pretty undesirable bonus to try and get.

When I was younger this sort of stuff was great, I could never get past Vanilla dome castle or Butter Bridge 1 in SMW but I could get through Star Road to Bowser's Castle.

Of course now I don't want to skip any levels but when you're younger I think having the option is appealing.

[JasonMCG]

Well. Not really. It's more about the overall experience of playing the game, and the visuals and audio is a big part of it. I find the direction of NSMB to be atrocious, personally, because it lacks the delicate refinement the series is known for. Like people have pointed out, SMW is not visually stunning (although it is sophisticated in its simplicity). But it had a feeling all of its own. The majority of the enemies were new. All the songs were new, and all the sound effects were new or remade in a fantastic artisanship of sound design. It felt complete on its own terms. In a strange way, it felt believable. It had integrity. The NSMB games by contrast are referential, with re-used assets straight out of the Mario sports games. Artistically, it's a hodge-podge. The "nudge nudge" nostalgia and recycled music and sound effects is completely gaudy in comparison. It doesn't stand on its own as a self-sufficient work of art, like the other Mario platformers do. It's all about the feeling. You can't rationalise true finesse.

Well said, Junior. Absolutely agree.

[Zeer0id]

But then I see people getting the cape in SMW and just flying over most of the stage, and I'm like, "Oh, you just bypass the platforming in the platformer. How is THAT fun?". Dude's getting the Racoon Tail and flying over most of the ship level, bypassing all the challenge. Meh.

You realize this is tantamount to Nintendo just giving people an easy way out, right? You don't have to play the game that way. And you yourself said there are secrets and stuff in SMW that incentivize not simply flying over everything.

It's part of the grand design of not forcing challenge down people's throats, which I think is great.

[DocTarHeel]

I'm always two minds about all the verticalness. I like exploring levels and finding hidden things the developers put in all the nooks and crannies of the game. But then I see people getting the cape in SMW and just flying over most of the stage, and I'm like, "Oh, you just bypass the platforming in the platformer. How is THAT fun?". Dude's getting the Racoon Tail and flying over most of the ship level, bypassing all the challenge. Meh. IDK, I liked jumping on things in my platformers, personally, and just finding alternate paths/bonus rooms/collectibles off the beaten path. I love the concise, tight feel of a DKC or even NSMBWii, where I don't feel like I'm missing out on a bunch of shit because I'm not flying above the platforming looking for hidden paths. And while I'm complaining about SM games, what's the deal with warp pipes/whistles/cannons? Why would I want to SKIP worlds!? Play less of the game!? Unless it's a really shitty world or something, otherwise that seems like a pretty undesirable bonus to try and get.

All of those things are optional though. The game doesn't require you to fly over levels or take warp pipes. They are just there, if you want to use them. As for the warp pipes and whistles, I think those originally existed so that the players could quickly get back to where they left after turning off the system. Their presence in the NSMB games is purely for nostalgia, though. I usually just find the secret exits that lead to them for completion's sake, but I have no interest in actually using them.

[ViewtifulJC]

It's part of the grand design of not forcing challenge down people's throats, which I think is great.

Well, that explains the Super Guide. Myself, I've never been a big fan of the flying items in 2d Marios, which is one of the reasons I hold NSMBWii and Yoshi's Island in such high esteem. Still think SMB3 was the best, though.

[Zeer0id]

Well, that explains the Super Guide. Myself, I've never been a big fan of the flying items in 2d Marios, which is one of the reasons I hold NSMBWii and Yoshi's Island in such high esteem. Still think SMB3 was the best, though.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. The Super Tanooki suit of SM3DL is a brilliant example because it allows you to actually play through the level, but with minimal challenge (still need to avoid pits).

[Tookay]

I'm always two minds about all the verticalness. I like exploring levels and finding hidden things the developers put in all the nooks and crannies of the game. But then I see people getting the cape in SMW and just flying over most of the stage, and I'm like, "Oh, you just bypass the platforming in the platformer. How is THAT fun?". Dude's getting the Racoon Tail and flying over most of the ship level, bypassing all the challenge. Meh.

Hey, if it makes people feel awesome and it's optional, then don't begrudge them the opportunity to fly around with a cape.

It doesn't sound like he meant that it was. One just takes precedence over the other.

That's true, but then that logic could be applied to any number of things. Mario's the king of platforming... some of us would like it if he LOOKED the part as well.

I think Nintendo's got the gameplay down pat at this point. It's not out of Nintendo's realm of ability to make some bolder artistic decisions. They've got tons of great artists.

[GooeyHeat]

Man, I have no opinion of this yet, but from the title I was SO HOPING that this would be a veggie-picking, enemy-chucking, Phanto-chasing adventure in Subcon. Oh well, more Mario is never bad.

[cartman414]

ETA: Zeer0id beat me to it.

Hey, if it makes people feel awesome and it's optional, then don't begrudge them the opportunity to fly around with a cape. That's true, but then that logic could be applied to any number of things. Mario's the king of platforming... some of us would like it if he LOOKED the part as well. I think Nintendo's got the gameplay down pat at this point. It's not out of Nintendo's realm of ability to make some bolder artistic decisions. They've got tons of great artists.

Still doesn't mean that a better playing NSMB should be considered inferior just because it looks worse. That's a case of jacked priorities.

I'm always two minds about all the verticalness. I like exploring levels and finding hidden things the developers put in all the nooks and crannies of the game. But then I see people getting the cape in SMW and just flying over most of the stage, and I'm like, "Oh, you just bypass the platforming in the platformer. How is THAT fun?". Dude's getting the Racoon Tail and flying over most of the ship level, bypassing all the challenge. Meh. IDK, I liked jumping on things in my platformers, personally, and just finding alternate paths/bonus rooms/collectibles off the beaten path. I love the concise, tight feel of a DKC or even NSMBWii, where I don't feel like I'm missing out on a bunch of shit because I'm not flying above the platforming looking for hidden paths. And while I'm complaining about SM games, what's the deal with warp pipes/whistles/cannons? Why would I want to SKIP worlds!? Play less of the game!? Unless it's a really shitty world or something, otherwise that seems like a pretty undesirable bonus to try and get.

Agreed. SMB3 always had that advantage over World. It had the perfect balance between straight platforming and exploration. Mario and his skillset were always better suited towards tight, focused platforming. Leave the exploration stuff to Kirby and Wario.

I believe warp zones were a byproduct of the pre-save days, when you had to leave your console on if you wanted to play Mario 3 straight. I remember it taking me 6 hours.

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. The Super Tanooki suit of SM3DL is a brilliant example because it allows you to actually play through the level, but with minimal challenge (still need to avoid pits).

Wish you could turn off those things. Had to restart so many times to get the sparkly star bonus.

[Zeer0id]

That's true, but then that logic could be applied to any number of things. Mario's the king of platforming... some of us would like it if he LOOKED the part as well. I think Nintendo's got the gameplay down pat at this point. It's not out of Nintendo's realm of ability to make some bolder artistic decisions. They've got tons of great artists.

You're not wrong at all! :)

I'm generally OK with NSMB2 at this point because I think the 3D effect will add a lot to the visual experience. On the other hand, if the Wii U game literally ends up being aesthetically unchanged from last year's E3 demo, I will be gravely disappointed.

[Neiteio]

NSMB on DS had tons of bolted-on blocks. Why are some people getting excited about that?

[Dr.Hadji]

... why is it an either/or thing exactly? It's not like 25 years of Mario gameplay know-how gets thrown out the window the moment they make the decision to make the art GOOD.

Its not. But for a Mario game visual appeal means very little to me. Mario is 90% gameplay for me. Ugly game? Eh, no skin off my nose.

[Neiteio]

It's sad that years from now we'll look back and not be able to say what sets these games apart. It's bad enough that NSMB DS and NSMB Wii already blur in my head; it's not like SMB3 and SMW where the distinctive look of one distinguishes it from the other, and both are memorable for it.

Now with NSMB2 coming up, and a WiiU game based on last year's NSMB Mii, the lines will blur even further. Would it kill them to try mixing up the settings at least? How about 1-1 is the Mushroom Kingdom at sunset? How about a cosmic world ala Rainbow Road? How about a new dinosaur-themed world? Or a haunted forest instead of a vanilla green one? Is anyone even trying to make the Mario world magical anymore?

Oh that's right, EAD Tokyo is. I hope that's enough to prevent franchise dilution, but the "New" subseries is anything but.

Even so... I am still looking forward to seeing this game in person. The autostereoscopic 3D will give it a nice layered depth and toy-like tangibility. The 3DS screen offers higher resolution than the DS game, obviously, but should also seem "denser" than the Wii game, with more detail packed into a smaller frame. There are also some nice touches like a more vibrant color palette: 1-1 has greener greens, richer reds, warmer pinks and golds, and the snow world has Christmas ornaments on the trees.

We just need some new worlds, like I said, and some new enemies and obstacles and power-ups and, well, everything. We need something to justify the "New" in the title, other than different level layouts. It should be a new game, not a portable expansion pack.

All in all, my inner Nintard is always excited to see Nintendo play a powerful new card, which a Mario game always is, but my inner gamer wants not just a good Mario title, but a FRESH Mario title as well. I'm looking forward to learning more about this title... I'm sure E3 will bring lots of news, perhaps even a downloadable trailer we can view in 3D on our 3DSes. Here's hoping!

[Teknoman]

Now with NSMB2 coming up, and a WiiU game based on last year's NSMB Mii, the lines will blur even further. Would it kill them to try mixing up the settings at least? How about 1-1 is the Mushroom Kingdom at sunset? How about a cosmic world ala Rainbow Road? How about a new dinosaur-themed world? Or a haunted forest instead of a vanilla green one? Is anyone even trying to make the Mario world magical anymore?

I'd love to see some of these, especially after seeing NSMB Wii drop the ball with the Rainbow world. World 9 should have had some crazy cosmic platforming...and at some point i'd like to fight Tatanga again.



And yes please for new enemies...or at least bring back some of the older less seen enemies.

[ScreenSplitter]

Not sure if I'll get this myself, but keep in mind regardless of my opinion or yours, this'll still ship a fuckload of 3DSes.

[kittens]

I'd love to see some of these, especially after seeing NSMB Wii drop the ball with the Rainbow world. World 9 should have had some crazy cosmic platforming...and at some point i'd like to fight Tatanga again. And yes please for new enemies...or at least bring back some of the older less seen enemies.

I'd frickin' love for Tatanga to return.

[HYDE]

I want Rooster suit!

Include an egg level like Yoshi's Island or Billy Hatcher.

[PokéKong]

Now with NSMB2 coming up, and a WiiU game based on last year's NSMB Mii, the lines will blur even further. Would it kill them to try mixing up the settings at least? How about 1-1 is the Mushroom Kingdom at sunset? How about a cosmic world ala Rainbow Road? How about a new dinosaur-themed world? Or a haunted forest instead of a vanilla green one? Is anyone even trying to make the Mario world magical anymore?

This makes me wish Intelligent Systems could work on a main line Mario game. Remember Boggly Woods?



Can you even imagine seeing such an eerie and strangely beautiful world in a Mario platformer? And yet I always thought of it as simply an imaginative interpretation of SMB's world 3

[Anth0ny]

This makes me wish Intelligent Systems could work on a main line Mario game. Remember Boggly Woods? Can you even imagine seeing such an eerie and strangely beautiful world in a Mario platformer? And yet I always thought of it as simply an imaginative interpretation of SMB's world 3

The worlds in all the Paper Mario games are fantastic.

[Neo Child]

Chill out folk, only 4 screens have been shown. Same thing happened to nsmbwii and it turned out to be awesome as shit.

[Gravijah]

Chill out folk, only 4 screens have been shown. Same thing happened to nsmbwii and it turned out to be awesome as shit.

nsmbw had a bland artstyle throughout and most of the worlds were very uninspired. the issue here isn't how the game will play.

[The Xtortionist]

nsmbw had a bland artstyle throughout and most of the worlds were very uninspired. the issue here isn't how the game will play.

It is for me. I want tighter SMB3/SMW-style physics.

[Amir0x]

Chill out folk, only 4 screens have been shown. Same thing happened to nsmbwii and it turned out to be awesome as shit.

almost all the complaints about NSMB2 and NSMBWii were about the aesthetics, and despite the final product, aesthetically NSMBWii sucked the entire time. So I'm not sure that is going to change

[Neo Child]

almost all the complaints about NSMB2 and NSMBWii were about the aesthetics, and despite the final product, aesthetically NSMBWii sucked the entire time. So I'm not sure that is going to change

Nsmbwii was more pleasing than nsmb, had some really cool levels in them.

Also, super mario 3d land had super generic graphics but managed to pull it off so everything just looked really slick. Still, would rather have super mario 3d land 2 rather than this not going to lie.

It does make 2 original mario platformera for the 3ds in (almost) the first year. Not too bad.

[JeFfRey]

It is for me. I want tighter SMB3/SMW-style physics.

Exactly, for me it's the biggest issue with the New series. The controls are just plain horrible compared to the previous entries.

[Rash]

Exactly, for me it's the biggest issue with the New series. The controls are just plain horrible compared to the previous entries.

I think the controls are just about perfect. Not all Mario games have to control the same.

[BowieZ]

I love the NSMBW controls. They're the opposite of floaty: they're weighty, like you're controlling an actual character in a physical world.

Now LBP... that is some floaty shit.

Anyway, so there's two "new" power-ups confirmed already (Raccoon and Gold) and possibly a third (Chicken) where you presumably can hover briefly and throw eggs Yoshi's Island style. Maybe more?

The backdrops are all newly 3D-ified.

The woods world is likely less poison forest and more tree-climbing vertical acrobatics and canopy fly-overs.

Snow world might actually be a winter wonderland not just an ice world with one snow level.

There may be on-line co-op, coin battles, or competitive parkour races.

There may be a level editor.

Could be greatest Mario ever.

[JoshuaJSlone]

"Oh but it looks the same". So did Super Mario Bros 2/Lost Levels back then, so in that case is nothing new or shocking.

That was a case of same system, same engine, one year later. NSMB is now spread across 3-4 systems, and a time span greater than that which covered Super Mario Bros. through Super Mario World.

Sadly, many people tend to see 2D(drawn/sprite/whatever) games as "lesser games". While don't mind in cases like New Super Mario Bros., because "it's 3D but in a retro perspective".

Frankly, I do kinda feel this way. Polygons or even vectors just have a lot more flexibility. There's no reason a sidescrolling game made with them couldn't look a lot more like Wario Shake than NSMB, though.

[gkryhewy]

a time span greater than that which covered Super Mario Bros. through Super Mario World.

Wow

[Neo Child]

Wow

Was going to say the same thing.

[Bentles]

Now with NSMB2 coming up, and a WiiU game based on last year's NSMB Mii, the lines will blur even further. Would it kill them to try mixing up the settings at least? How about 1-1 is the Mushroom Kingdom at sunset? How about a cosmic world ala Rainbow Road? How about a new dinosaur-themed world? Or a haunted forest instead of a vanilla green one? Is anyone even trying to make the Mario world magical anymore?

Yeah I'm with you on this 100%. DKCR kind of shows up the 2D mario games of late with its beautiful, lively, creative and surprising level design. NSBWii wasn't on anywhere near the same level.

[SpacePirate Ridley]

i was once someone who wanted a new super mario world. then they showed off new super mario bros. mii. and then new super mario bros. 2. i have given up.

I thought because NSMB was always a tribute to SMB3 we will get eventually NSMW. Then came NSMWii, and they added yoshi, a move in the right direction. I thought the next one will drink a lot from SMS.
But here we are and they use again the fucking SMB3 template, that was not only used to death in NSMB games, but also in the Galaxies and 3D Land (although this ones in a MUCH better manner).

At this point I have also given up. Im pretty sure that Nintendo treats SMW, like Disney treats Hercules and like Square treats FFIX, the things that being my favourites have the less tributes, always using more their rest of their properties.

I'd love to see some of these, especially after seeing NSMB Wii drop the ball with the Rainbow world. World 9 should have had some crazy cosmic platforming...and at some point i'd like to fight Tatanga again. And yes please for new enemies...or at least bring back some of the older less seen enemies.

Would have been cool to see Tatanga as the secret boss from 3D Land.
We need also tribute of Wart.
And more use of the koopalings instead of Bowsy the majority of the time.

[Franchuzas87]

Man, I think I'm gonna replay NSMB Wii. Right now.

[Mojo]

Honestly I think even the DD-only Sonic 4-2 looks better than the NSMB series at this point - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilDq3vvns3Y

Hopefully the Wii U game is not a NEW title as well.

[Neo Child]

Honestly I think even the DD-only Sonic 4-2 looks better than the NSMB series at this point - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilDq3vvns3Y Hopefully the Wii U game is not a NEW title as well.

thats true, but we've seen 4 screenshots so far where as we've seen everything of Sonic 4-2.

just for funsies, heres the cosmic abortion that was the first trailer for NSMB... looks like some shitty homebrew.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhocvThdP5g

Man, I think I'm gonna replay NSMB Wii. Right now.

that game needs online and voice chat, god damn id play with you right now

[WillyFive]

thats true, but we've seen 4 screenshots so far where as we've seen everything of Sonic 4-2. just for funsies, heres the cosmic abortion that was the first trailer for NSMB... looks like some shitty homebrew. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhocvThdP5g

Mario had more abilities in the beta than in the final game. I was always disappointed with that.

[Epcott]

NSMB NSMBWii NSMB2 NSMBMii

This is the problem I have with the NSMB series.
Introduced in 2006, and the only innovations the series brings to the table is multiplayer and Super Guide.

Not only this, but SM3DL was just released last November, and we already have 2 new Mario platformers to look forward to?
If only there were a NSMB game that looked like Wario for Wii or Kirby Epic Yarn.

[WillyFive]

This is the problem I have with the NSMB series. Introduced in 2006, and the only innovations the series brings to the table is multiplayer and Super Guide.

...there has only been one game since the original in 2006. That one game brought both multiplayer and the Super Guide. We have yet to see what the next two will bring.

[ScreenSplitter]

This is the problem I have with the NSMB series. Introduced in 2006, and the only innovations the series brings to the table is multiplayer and Super Guide. Not only this, but SM3DL was just released last November, and we already have 2 new Mario platformers to look forward to?

Thing is, the 2D/3D Mario games attract very different audiences. NSMB Wii outsold both Galaxies by a huge amount I think.

[ryushe]

Anyway, so there's two "new" power-ups confirmed already (Raccoon and Gold) and possibly a third (Chicken) where you presumably can hover briefly and throw eggs Yoshi's Island style. Maybe more?

If there is indeed a chicken suit in which Mario throws eggs Yoshi's Island style, I wouldn't even care about the art style or quality of the game at that point.

[Mr. Wonderful]

Anyone else notice the absence of the Three Coins UI? Hoping they'll try something new for this game.

And yeah, as others have said, NSMBW was definitely an aesthetic improvement over NSMB, but the game's art design still comes off as uninspired and bland. I'm hoping this game will further advance the art style, but judging by those screens, it's going to be more in line with NSMBW.

[Rash]

If there is indeed a chicken suit in which Mario throws eggs Yoshi's Island style, I wouldn't even care about the art style or quality of the game at that point.

An egg power like that would be great. But I'm up for Mario in a chicken suit regardless of what the perk ends up being.

I mean, we're talking Mario as a chicken. That's just Kuribo's Shoe levels of amazing.

[Vanille]

just for funsies, heres the cosmic abortion that was the first trailer for NSMB... looks like some shitty homebrew. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhocvThdP5g

That looks pretty good, actually. Much better art direction.

[ViewtifulJC]

If they do anything with the chicken, that is. Bee Mario may be the cutest thing since Kirby, but in most cases he's worse then regular Mario, trading his trademark jump for slow float and loses to water of all things.