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Azure Dream
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(04-21-2012, 10:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by jooey

well that made me depressed

"This is beautiful and wonderful and I will never in a million years be a part of it."
Bo
shoot bullets from her arse
(04-21-2012, 10:29 AM)
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Free fruit? Yet more cloaked Half-Life 3 references? Queen blared in the bathrooms? Internal Marc Laidlaw blog? Oh my god.

I am so happy and so sad I read this. Time to cry myself to sleep.
jediyoshi
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(04-21-2012, 10:29 AM)
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imgur mirror
http://imgur.com/a/nSCUl
Visualante2
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(04-21-2012, 10:34 AM)
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Very much a nod to Disney's old one with the illustrations.

Originally Posted by Kulock

"This is beautiful and wonderful and I will never in a million years be a part of it."

It's a lot easier than getting into other game developers. All you have to do is make and finish cool stuff with their tools. You don't even need to spend $100k on a fancy degree!
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
(04-21-2012, 10:51 AM)
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That was a depressing read, I have to work in kitchen later on for minimum pay with a pot bellied man screaming at me to work faster :-(, sigh.

I wonder if this kind of working philosophy would work for all companies/business, even in my crappy work environment people tend to work better when left to their own devices but the manager/boss just doesn't seem to like allowing people to do that, even though it often increases productivity, they seem addicted to this militant hierarchy system.
Last edited by lowrider007; 04-21-2012 at 10:53 AM.
JasonUresti
Member
(04-21-2012, 10:55 AM)

Originally Posted by lowrider007

That was a depressing read, I have to work in kitchen later on for minimum pay with a pot bellied man screaming at me to work faster :-(, sigh.

I wonder if this kind of working philosophy would work for all companies/business, even in my crappy work environment people tend to work better when left to their own devices but the manager/boss just doesn't seem to like allowing people to do that, even when it increases productivity, they seem addicted to this militant hierarchy system.

The problem is when free of such rigorous hiring processes, you to many people who love the power/authority to the point where it more important to them than the actual work/business, and you get the people who, free off any order, just fuck off and don't get anything done.

It's why Valve stresses how important hiring is.
Visualante2
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(04-21-2012, 10:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by lowrider007

That was a depressing read, I have to work in kitchen later on for minimum pay with a pot bellied man screaming at me to work faster :-(, sigh.

I wonder if this kind of working philosophy would work for all companies/business, even in my crappy work environment people tend to work better when left to their own devices but the manager/boss just doesn't seem to like allowing people to do that, even though it often increases productivity, they seem addicted to this militant hierarchy system.

I think the education system instils it too early that this is the right way to do things. And if there isn't a clear leader, who is abided, and occasionally questioned that things will go terribly wrong. It's not like Valve can keep a steady release schedule anyway.
HP_Wuvcraft
(04-21-2012, 10:58 AM)
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Amazing read.

Cue That User saying every company should be like Valve.
Last edited by HP_Wuvcraft; 04-21-2012 at 11:03 AM.
spuit*11
Member
(04-21-2012, 11:11 AM)
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Looks pretty snazzy too.



Source to all this: www.flamehaus.com (of HL2world fame/infamy)

[EDIT] Here's the original posting of this stuff. http://www.flamehaus.com/bbs/viewtop...37282#p3637282
Last edited by spuit*11; 04-21-2012 at 11:14 AM.
Jac_Solar
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(04-21-2012, 11:12 AM)
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I'll believe it when Valve confirms it.
Visualante2
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(04-21-2012, 11:13 AM)
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Flamehaus the scumbags who spoiled Portal 2 for me via the ARG. Should be a banned site.
lastplayed
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(04-21-2012, 11:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by lowrider007

That was a depressing read, I have to work in kitchen later on for minimum pay with a pot bellied man screaming at me to work faster :-(, sigh.

I wonder if this kind of working philosophy would work for all companies/business, even in my crappy work environment people tend to work better when left to their own devices but the manager/boss just doesn't seem to like allowing people to do that, even though it often increases productivity, they seem addicted to this militant hierarchy system.

I can sorta see shades of it in the Agile development environment where I work. None of us have "roles", we just do whatever needs to be done and we mostly self manage ourselves. We still have company managers and deadlines of course, but you're never doing the same thing over and over.
Backfoggen
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(04-21-2012, 11:30 AM)
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Hey Gabe contact me. I'm sure I can do something cool at Valve!
MRORANGE
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(04-21-2012, 11:37 AM)
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lovely manual and nearly all of it's true :)
Rez
(04-21-2012, 11:40 AM)
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The Australia entry in the glossary is outstanding.
Kritz
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(04-21-2012, 11:47 AM)
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Does anyone else have a lot of trouble reading through Valve material, because it just makes you want to drop everything and make a game? Or do some creative work?

I say with four weeks left to finish my Unity game for University...
V_Ben
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(04-21-2012, 11:49 AM)
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Knives—That which one can never own enough of. A vast collection of
them is in no way a Freudian compensation.

Oh god. First employee handbook to actually make me laugh!
Drencrom
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(04-21-2012, 11:54 AM)
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Why Valve?
Keasar
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(04-21-2012, 12:01 PM)
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I wanna work at Valve more then ever now. :(
Feep
Second-hand Citizen
(04-21-2012, 12:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Drencrom




Why Valve?

This isn't surprising. When I toured Riot Games a few months ago, the entire place was COVERED in ponies. On the walls, on the desks. Hell, they would stream episodes in the common area DURING WORK HOURS for employees to come down and watch.
Drencrom
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(04-21-2012, 12:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Feep

This isn't surprising. When I toured Riot Games a few months ago, the entire place was COVERED in ponies. On the walls, on the desks. Hell, they would stream episodes in the common area DURING WORK HOURS for employees to come down and watch.

Wow, that really sounds like a unhealthy obsession...

Good thing I don't play LoL.

Originally Posted by which1spink

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/iR2hmgbuHPHSA.png[IMG]

Teasing HL3 as usual, nothing to see here.
Last edited by Drencrom; 04-21-2012 at 12:08 PM.
Enco
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(04-21-2012, 12:11 PM)
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Valve seems like such an amazing place to work.

I'd look forward to every day if I worked somewhere like that. I dream of it.
DaBuddaDa
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(04-21-2012, 12:48 PM)
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Bioshock 3 to take place in the ruined halls of Valve HQ after their descent into madness.
Haunted
(04-21-2012, 12:48 PM)
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That's kind of incredible, actually.

And pretty scary.
Rez
(04-21-2012, 12:49 PM)
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despite the many disclaimers that they "hope this continues to work, even though it may not always work", and the extreme emphasis on hiring "t-shaped people" (that's a cool way of putting it, I've never heard that sort of person described like that) so that the system continues to function, it all seems too good to be true. That said, the frequency of their output over the last few years, be it Steam or video games, speaks for itself. It's remarkable.

Hiring the wrong sort of people into that system could be so damn destructive.
SamVimes
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(04-21-2012, 12:56 PM)
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"E=Rez;37152347]despite the many disclaimers that they "hope this continues to work, even though it may not always work", and the extreme emphasis on hiring "t-shaped people" (that's a cool way of putting it, I've never heard that sort of person described like that) so that the system continues to function, it all seems too good to be true. That said, the frequency of their output over the last few years, be it Steam or video games, speaks for itself. It's remarkable.

Hiring the wrong sort of people into that system could be so damn destructive.[/QUOTE]

They're probably just amazing at hiring the right people.
Rez
(04-21-2012, 12:58 PM)
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It certainly seems like it.
EatChildren
Chico = Quiet
(04-21-2012, 01:02 PM)
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Their business culture probably makes for an entirely different philosophy when hiring someone. Less "does this person tick these boxes to fill these roles", and more about who the person is and what they enjoy. I figure a lot of Valve's staff are less so people who fit a particular mould and thus were hired because they sought out Valve, and instead people talented at their passion. The kind of people who aren't just making games to pay the bills, but because they really love making games. They'd do it in their own time if they weren't doing it at Valve.

So rather than hire them because they're "person who can do X for project Y", they're hired because they're talented, creative people in need of a 'studio' to express their craft. Valve gives them a canvas and tools and lets them paint.
BKLorenzo
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(04-21-2012, 01:08 PM)
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so it begins
The_Player
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(04-21-2012, 01:22 PM)
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Man, I love Valve. Reading that makes me blames myself for being a teacher, not a game developer.
Zaph
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(04-21-2012, 01:28 PM)
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I dunno. Valve sounds like a great company and all, but everything in that handbook sounds like a luxury afforded to them by taking a cut of the games made by people who worked under very, very different conditions.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with selling other developer's games (I love the Steam platform and use it daily), but lets not kid ourselves - if 'Developer Valve' was separated from 'Publisher Valve' and all of their own games had to meet deadlines and recoup their development costs - that handbook wouldn't be half as interesting to read.

So no, don't expect to see other developers emulate Valve by simply changing their hiring practices (unless of course they just so happen to have a highly successful digital distribution service funding them).
MrHicks
Banned
(04-21-2012, 01:30 PM)
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goddamn and i thought google the "googleplex" was awesome
JonathanEx
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(04-21-2012, 01:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zaph

I dunno. Valve sounds like a great company and all, but everything in that handbook sounds like a luxury afforded to them by taking a cut of the games made by people who worked under very, very different conditions.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with selling other developer's games (I love the Steam platform and use it daily), but lets not kid ourselves - if 'Developer Valve' was separated from 'Publisher Valve' and all of their own games had to meet deadlines and recoup their development costs - that handbook wouldn't be half as interesting to read.

So no, don't expect to see other developers emulate Valve by simply changing their hiring practices (unless of course they just so happen to have a highly successful digital distribution service funding them).

But is it by being Developer Valve and having that experience which is why Publisher Valve works so well? After all the focus on the customer is important to both. I'm not sure there really is that line of difference.
Tesseract
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(04-21-2012, 01:41 PM)
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valve is gattaca.
Vandrar
(04-21-2012, 01:48 PM)
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Impressive company.
RyougaSaotome
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(04-21-2012, 01:48 PM)
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Mind blowing. An absolutely fascinating read that simply seems too good to be true, yet it matches up with everything we've ever heard and their releases appear to speak to that truth.

God. Damn.
Glass Rebel
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(04-21-2012, 01:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zaph

I dunno. Valve sounds like a great company and all, but everything in that handbook sounds like a luxury afforded to them by taking a cut of the games made by people who worked under very, very different conditions.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with selling other developer's games (I love the Steam platform and use it daily), but lets not kid ourselves - if 'Developer Valve' was separated from 'Publisher Valve' and all of their own games had to meet deadlines and recoup their development costs - that handbook wouldn't be half as interesting to read.

So no, don't expect to see other developers emulate Valve by simply changing their hiring practices (unless of course they just so happen to have a highly successful digital distribution service funding them).

You might have a point here but I remember reading somehwere that they started going in this direction right after they finished Half-Life 1 so their company philosophy isn't directly linked to their success with Steam even though it certainly helped. Don't hold me accountable for the anecdote it though.
Tesseract
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(04-21-2012, 01:51 PM)
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this is a fantastic read. i'm really happy this was released.
bodyboarder
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(04-21-2012, 01:52 PM)
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I stopped reading at page 9, got too depressing.
1-D_FTW
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(04-21-2012, 02:03 PM)
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About half-way through. Love the picture of the big car. Made me laugh the most so far.

Originally Posted by Zaph

I dunno. Valve sounds like a great company and all, but everything in that handbook sounds like a luxury afforded to them by taking a cut of the games made by people who worked under very, very different conditions.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with selling other developer's games (I love the Steam platform and use it daily), but lets not kid ourselves - if 'Developer Valve' was separated from 'Publisher Valve' and all of their own games had to meet deadlines and recoup their development costs - that handbook wouldn't be half as interesting to read.

So no, don't expect to see other developers emulate Valve by simply changing their hiring practices (unless of course they just so happen to have a highly successful digital distribution service funding them).

First of all, they were profitable before Steam ever came around. Second, Steam came about because there was a vaccum in the space when PC developers around the world abandoned the platform and Valve was forced with coming up with their own system of combating piracy, or also jumping ship. Third, it's not a parasitic relationship. If those being "exploited" weren't benefiting more than they were being "harmed", Steam would have no titles on its shelves.
Huw_Dawson
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(04-21-2012, 02:05 PM)
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I want to work at Valve. :(
EatChildren
Chico = Quiet
(04-21-2012, 02:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zaph

if 'Developer Valve' was separated from 'Publisher Valve' and all of their own games had to meet deadlines and recoup their development costs - that handbook wouldn't be half as interesting to read.

How sure can you be? Though I think there's truth to Valve's unique funding position aiding their unique business structure, you also have to look at the history of Valve to see they've never been in any real financial difficulty. Newell was, if I'm correct, a millionaire when he started the company and began funding the original Half-Life. Since then, how many failures have they had?

Even if they didn't have third party Steam sales to back them up, they've produced a tremendous quantity of well selling products. This is opposed to another independent developer that relies on outside funding to produce practically every game they make. Valve has always been one step ahead of their business: it started with internal funding, and that funding was instantly successful (and massively so). Every investment since, with the exception of maybe one or two titles, would have have turned huge profit. And if Steam was only distributing Valve games, they'd still be netting massive profit from that.

If they didn't have the extra buffer of third party Steam sales they might have a smaller scope in terms of non-game related experiments. They might not have stuff like Steam Box in the works, or other far future projects. But their actual game development, and the philosophy they currently abide by, would probably be the same.

Or, TLDR: end of the day money pays for games, and Valve hasn't had enough (any) financial failures to force them to overturn their business philosophy.
Apdiddy
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(04-21-2012, 02:13 PM)
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Based on their handbook, Valve seems like the type of company that many of us graduating from college would want to work at, but never get to or don't even get interviews because their standards are impossible to achieve. I knew people who landed jobs almost immediately with Valve-like companies while people like me couldn't even get an interview because 'you lack skills in this area,' or 'you don't have enough experience,' and 'you need to work on the direction for your career.' I graduated with a business degree, but do have a great amount of knowledge with computers (not enough to program as of yet).

At the same time, I'm not sure I would enjoy working at Valve for all their talk of being 'customer-centric,' when there's a big elephant in the room (new IPs, Half-Life sequels, focusing primarily on Steam, etc.).
jokkir
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(04-21-2012, 02:15 PM)
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What a great read. Didn't know they moved so much
gdt
blow in her face and
she'll follow you anywhere
(04-21-2012, 02:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Apdiddy

At the same time, I'm not sure I would enjoy working at Valve for all their talk of being 'customer-centric,' when there's a big elephant in the room (new IPs, Half-Life sequels, focusing primarily on Steam, etc.).

Could you clarify/elaborate on this?
TucoBenedictoPacifico
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(04-21-2012, 02:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Apdiddy

At the same time, I'm not sure I would enjoy working at Valve for all their talk of being 'customer-centric,' when there's a big elephant in the room (new IPs, Half-Life sequels, focusing primarily on Steam, etc.).

I'm not sure to get what you are saying, to be honest.

EDIT: Damn.
CharmingCharlie
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(04-21-2012, 02:27 PM)
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That manual was an absolute joy to read. I have to admit though it would scare the hell out of me to work at Valve, all that freedom. But then when you get to my age you are set in your ways.

The bit I really did love though was this bit :-

Originally Posted by Valve Handbook page 23

We are all stewards of our long-term relationship with our customers. They watch us, sometimes very publicly, make mistakes. Sometimes they get angry with us. But because we always have their best interests at heart, there’s faith that we’re going to make things better, and that if we’ve screwed up today, it wasn’t because we were trying to take advantage of anyone.

I really wish other companies would take that attitude (looking at you Bioware).
Derrick01
Banned
(04-21-2012, 02:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by CharmingCharlie

I really wish other companies would take that attitude (looking at you Bioware).

Looking at EA in general. This is why they will never beat Steam. They can't beat them when they can't match that pro-customer attitude that won so many PC gamers over.
Randdalf
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(04-21-2012, 02:33 PM)
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Man oh man oh man, I guess it's time to start working overtime at university. The Fishbowl glossary definition is hilarious.

Fishbowl—The conference room by the lunchroom. The one with a big
glass wall. Don’t let the name throw you—we don’t actually use it as a
fishbowl! Except, of course, on Fishbowl Fridays, where we fill it up with ten
thousand gallons of putrid saltwater so that all the manta rays and sharks
will have something to breathe while they fight to the death. You won’t see
it in your list of benefits, not because it isn’t fun, but because it is illegal.


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