[upJTboogie]

Err...how does a one sided opinion not make their opinion carry less weight? Why would I take the opinion of an xbox fanboy when they discuss the playstation for example. Also people who have never subbed on the service are free to criticize, but the chances of their criticism being valid goes down a bit with no actual experience with what they are criticizing.

I don't see why it would carry less weight if they are defending their position well. A fanboy is a different story.

It would depend on what parts of Live they are criticizing, if it's putting more ads on a paid console service or what they lock out, that would be different from talking about performance issued when they never used it.

[Crewnh]

Also people who have never subbed on the service are free to criticize, but the chances of their criticism being valid goes down a bit with no actual experience with what they are criticizing.

I've never subscribed and only used free months and trials. Does that make my criticisms invalid?

[Vane_MagicCity]

I don't get this either. People say they don't own the system and don't pay for Live, they use other services that they feel are equal and free yet continue to complain when it doesn't affect them in the least. Makes no sense. The biggest complainers are the ones least affected.

Outside looking in gives a different perspective. I turned on my 360 just now and here is what I see on the Home tab.

There are 5 boxes:

- One says: Play Homefront which is the DVD drive
- One says: Quickplay
Here's where the trouble begins:
- The big box has quickly scrolling ads for games and apps. I don't have ADHD but apparently they are targeting those that do.
- A static image for Try MLB.TV
- A static image for Godzilla, a movie on Crackle I guess. That box is usually running a video advertisement.

So 60% of what you see when you turn the 360 on is advertisements and Microsoft thinks more ads are needed. So enjoy your adbox, I am truly thinking of trading it in for anoother PS3.

[Montresor]

Outside looking in gives a different perspective. I turned on my 360 just now and here is what I see on the Home tab. There are 5 boxes: - One says: Play Homefront which is the DVD drive - One says: Quickplay Here's where the trouble begins: - The big box has quickly scrolling ads for games and apps. I don't have ADHD but apparently they are targeting those that do. - A static image for Try MLB.TV - A static image for Godzilla, a movie on Crackle I guess. That box is usually running a video advertisement. So 60% of what you see when you turn the 360 on is advertisements and Microsoft thinks more ads are needed. So enjoy your adbox, I am truly thinking of trading it in for anoother PS3.

The bolded is actually a pretty awesome ad. Isn't Crackle free for Gold users? The bolded seems like it's promoting free content. It's saying, "hey look here, there are free movies on this ap, enjoy!" Crackle is free, I have no idea what it does, and apparently it'll let me watch a free movie? Cool.

Either way, reading through this thread taught me that I have an incredibly high tolerance for the box ads on the 360 UI. I simply don't care and it puzzles me a bit that other people care so much about the ads on the boxes (minus the bottom right corner ads on most tabs of course). I really like that said boxes let me know about video game / app / zune related offers.

Now I don't use the apps that apparently already have 30-second mandatory video ads at this moment, nor do I use the apps mentioned in the OP's article that will have said mandatory ads in the future, so that doesn't affect me. I can join in on the hate parade if I'm ever forced to watch an ad before I watch my Clerks 2 on Netflix or before I play Vanquish.

edit: LOL, Crackle does have video spots. Well there goes that. I just tried Crackle for the first time. It forced me to watch a Via Rail ad before the "Big Daddy" movie played. That's pretty annoying. I still maintain though that the box ads on the dashboard don't bother me.

[see5harp]

No forced installs, massive patches, syncing trophies or better cross platform games has nothing to do with Live Gold. The only thing in your post that has anything to do with paying $60 a year is that it runs better than PSN.

Agreed, but unfortunately the OS implementation and certification requirements play a big part in how the network performs in actual use.

[surly]

No forced installs, massive patches, syncing trophies or better cross platform games has nothing to do with Live Gold. The only thing in your post that has anything to do with paying $60 a year is that it runs better than PSN.

Of course the clunkiness of the PS3 system software and the inferior performance of games affects whether you'd decide to play games on the 360 (and hence maybe pay for Live Gold) instead. It's about the whole experience. If you play all cross-platform games on a PS3, you're getting an inferior experience the majority of the time by choice, and in pretty much all areas from installs to patches to trophy syncing to custom soundtracks to game performance to online. That's not a choice I want to make just cos I have to look at a couple of ads when I turn the console on, but each to their own.

[Vane_MagicCity]

The bolded is actually a pretty awesome ad. Isn't Crackle free for Gold users? The bolded seems like it's promoting free content. It's saying, "hey look here, there are free movies on this ap, enjoy!" Crackle is free, I have no idea what it does, and apparently it'll let me watch a free movie? Cool. Either way, reading through this thread taught me that I have an incredibly high tolerance for the box ads on the 360 UI. I simply don't care and it puzzles me a bit that other people care so much about the ads on the boxes (minus the bottom right corner ads on most tabs of course). I really like that said boxes let me know about video game / app / zune related offers. Now I don't use the apps that apparently already have 30-second mandatory video ads at this moment, nor do I use the apps mentioned in the OP's article that will have said mandatory ads in the future, so that doesn't affect me. I can join in on the hate parade if I'm ever forced to watch an ad before I watch my Clerks 2 on Netflix or before I play Vanquish.

1) Even if Crackle is free for Gold users, it isn't free because Gold isn't free.
2) Even if Crackle is 100% off for Gold users, it's still an ad.
3) Even if Crackle is 100% off for Gold users, I am sure the ad is still there for Silver users

It's a game console or atleast it's supposed to be, not an ad server. I bought it to play games on back in 2009 and it has outgrown me. Netflix was nice on the 360 at first but there are far better options now. When 60% of the boot up tab ON A GAME CONSOLE is devoted to ads most of which are not about games, something has gone wrong.

You don't need to be forced to watch an ad to know this train is moving in the wrong direction, a direction that will one day see you being forced to watch ads. You can wait until that happens and then complain but it will be too late then.

You know how people are complaining about Dark Souls using GFWL BEFORE it happens? That's the idea.

[Vane_MagicCity]

Of course the clunkiness of the PS3 system software and the inferior performance of games affects whether you'd decide to play games on the 360 (and hence maybe pay for Live Gold) instead. It's about the whole experience. If you play all cross-platform games on a PS3, you're getting an inferior experience the majority of the time by choice, and in pretty much all areas from installs to patches to trophy syncing to custom soundtracks to game performance to online. That's not a choice I want to make just cos I have to look at a couple of ads when I turn the console on, but each to their own.

....and pay $60 a year (that's MSRP, a sale price isn't really the point).

[Vane_MagicCity]

Agreed, but unfortunately the OS implementation and certification requirements play a big part in how the network performs in actual use.

OS implementation! LOL, I greatly prefer the XMB to the Metro UI.

[surly]

....and pay $60 a year (that's MSRP, a sale price isn't really the point).

The cost doesn't bother me. It's peanuts.

[Crewnh]

Of course the clunkiness of the PS3 system software and the inferior performance of games affects whether you'd decide to play games on the 360 (and hence maybe pay for Live Gold) instead. It's about the whole experience. If you play all cross-platform games on a PS3, you're getting an inferior experience the majority of the time by choice, and in pretty much all areas from installs to patches to trophy syncing to custom soundtracks to game performance to online. That's not a choice I want to make just cos I have to look at a couple of ads when I turn the console on, but each to their own.

If you really cared about all those things, you wouldn't be playing on a console to begin with.

[statham]

I've never subscribed and only used free months and trials. Does that make my criticisms invalid?

YES.

[SquirrelNuckle]

I just feel bad for 360 users who pay for Live and keep getting horrible dash redesigns. They have gotten worse with each new dashboard.

[surly]

If you really cared about all those things, you wouldn't be playing on a console to begin with.

I have a gaming PC as well (and I'm waiting for a 3770K to arrive to build another one), but there are lots of games that come out for PS3/360 and not PC, or they come out months later for PC and I can't be bothered to wait. I also game online with friends on consoles and they generally go for the 360 version of games cos we use the party mode.

[PrimaNocta]

If true, Nextbox is in for a rude awakening nextgen. PS4 online services will continue to improve for free and so will Nintendo's.

hahaha....funny shit I read all day.

[KMD]

Now they need another Live subscription level. Platinum Plus Preferred Live Membership, with 2x as many adds as Gold.

Seriously though they need some changes. When I first got my 360 I was genuinely shocked to see I need a gold membership to access Netflix. They actually had the stones to put a paid service behind another paid service.

I canceled my gold after about 6 months and will never go back!

[Crewnh]

YES.

Why?

I have a gaming PC as well (and I'm waiting for a 3770K to arrive to build another one), but there are lots of games that come out for PS3/360 and not PC, or they come out months later for PC and I can't be bothered to wait. I also game online with friends on consoles and they generally go for the 360 version of games cos we use the party mode.

So you don't really care and you're just making excuses.

lol. so its ps3 or pc.

When did PS3 stop being console?

[upJTboogie]

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/...s-for-targeted

Ads on Xbox might be getting political.

[PrimaNocta]

....and pay $60 a year (that's MSRP, a sale price isn't really the point).

but price is a valid point. People like you keep spewing out $60 xbox live price when you can clearly get it for almost half.

[statham]

If you really cared about all those things, you wouldn't be playing on a console to begin with.

lol. so its ps3 or pc.

[see5harp]

OS implementation! LOL, I greatly prefer the XMB to the Metro UI.

I think the XMB looks better than the Metro UI. That's not what I'm talking about.

[NullPointer]

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/...s-for-targeted Ads on Xbox might be getting political.

Hold onto your butts people, we haven't seen nuthin yet.

[see5harp]

If you really cared about all those things, you wouldn't be playing on a console to begin with.

Not true at all.

[coldfoot]

http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/...s-for-targeted Ads on Xbox might be getting political.

Focus on the Family ad each time you turn on your Xbox.

[statham]

lol. so its ps3 or pc.

so if PS3 is inferior, play it on the PC, If the PS3 is superior, 360 sucks

[Vane_MagicCity]

but price is a valid point. People like you keep spewing out $60 xbox live price when you can clearly get it for almost half.

$60 is what Microsoft wants you to pay. If you can get it for less or even free, go for it but that isn't the standard price set by Microsoft.

[surly]

So you don't really care and you're just making excuses.

Don't be a dickhead. If I didn't care I wouldn't have said it. All of my gaming friends either have a 360 or they have both a 360 and a PS3 - only a couple of them also game on PC - so I play quite a lot of games on Live.

$60 is what Microsoft wants you to pay. If you can get it for less or even free, go for it but that isn't the standard price set by Microsoft.

The "but you have to pay RRP!" argument is so 2006. I just looked on Amazon US and a 12 month card is $48 delivered there, so 20% off the RRP and without doing any shopping around.

[Crewnh]

Not true at all.

How so? If it's about the experience, the PC trumps anything the 360 and PS3 can do. Better performance? PC. Achievements? Well Steam has that. Installs and Patches? Thank god for Steam. Custom Soundtracks? C'mon. Game performance online? Whoa boy, dedicated servers sure are nice.

But this is really about friends, then yeah, you go where they are.

Don't be a dickhead. If I didn't care I wouldn't have said it. All of my gaming friends either have a 360 or they have both a 360 and a PS3 - only a couple of them also game on PC - so I play quite a lot of games on Live.

You should have said you pay live because of your friends instead of the weak argument of "superior experience". That's at least understandable. And there's no need for namecalling.

[njean777]

Now they need another Live subscription level. Platinum Plus Preferred Live Membership, with 2x as many adds as Gold. Seriously though they need some changes. When I first got my 360 I was genuinely shocked to see I need a gold membership to access Netflix. They actually had the stones to put a paid service behind another paid service. I canceled my gold after about 6 months and will never go back!

Only Microsoft, and some in this thread eat it all up.

[Vane_MagicCity]

Don't be a dickhead. If I didn't care I wouldn't have said it. All of my gaming friends either have a 360 or they have both a 360 and a PS3 - only a couple of them also game on PC - so I play quite a lot of games on Live. The "but you have to pay RRP!" argument is so 2006. I just looked on Amazon US and a 12 month card is $48 delivered there, so 20% off the RRP and without doing any shopping around.

I never said you had to pay MSRP, I said that's the standard price for a year of Live Gold. Simple as that. Saying you CAN get it for less changes nothing. I don't understand what's so hard about this.

I didn't pay $60 for Live Gold either, I paid $84 for 2 years when the price went up. I stil acknowledge that the MSRP is $60 and all other prices are compared to that one.

[surly]

You should have said you pay live because of your friends instead of the weak argument of "superior experience". That's at least understandable.

It's not a weak argument at all and as I said, many of my friends own both consoles and we buy games for the 360 to play together because the experience is better. There's no need to put the phrase in quotation marks.

I didn't pay $60 for Live Gold either

Why did you tell me I have to pay $60 a year for Live above then? Not even you are paying $60 for it! Nobody has to pay that much, cos it's constantly available cheaper elsewhere.

[see5harp]

How so? If it's about the experience, the PC trumps anything the 360 and PS3 can do. Better performance? PC. Achievements? Well Steam has that. Installs and Patches? Thank god for Steam. Custom Soundtracks? C'mon. Game performance online? Whoa boy, dedicated servers sure are nice. But this is really about friends, then yeah, you go where they are.

Your arguement is that if I cared at all about the smoothness of the experience, I would not game on console. That's idiotic. Obviously I would like things to be faster and smoother online. To say that the 360 was not a major part of establishing a featureset with invites, achievements, custom soundtracks, and party chat would be criminal. Right now the 360 could use a lot more RAM and more horsepower, not disagreement there. You talk like the rest of the idiots here in absolute terms. I'm sure the experience of downloading The Witcher 2 multiple times was sublime. I'm playing Trials Evolution and Journey on consoles because I don't care about experience.

[Vane_MagicCity]

I think the XMB looks better than the Metro UI. That's not what I'm talking about.

The XMB doesn't integrate ads as well as the Metro UI, I agree with that. In fact, I think the Metro UI was designed with ads in mind.

[Vane_MagicCity]

It's not a weak argument at all and as I said, many of my friends own both consoles and we buy games for the 360 to play together because the experience is better. There's no need to put the phrase in quotation marks. Why did you tell me I have to pay $60 a year for Live above then? Not even you are paying $60 for it! Nobody has to pay that much, cos it's constantly available cheaper elsewhere.

Nice snip, you're not very honest are you? I never said HAD to pay $60. Just forget it, you are purposely ignoring my point and snipping quotes because you can't debate honestly.

[surly]

Nice snip, you're not very honest are you? I never said HAD to pay $60. Just forget it, you are purposely ignoring my point and snipping quotes because you can't debate honestly.

This is what you said: -

....and pay $60 a year (that's MSRP, a sale price isn't really the point).

But I'm not sure why you said that, cos the actual price you pay is the entire point and it's always available for less than $60.

[see5harp]

The XMB doesn't integrate ads as well as the Metro UI, I agree with that. In fact, I think the Metro UI was designed with ads in mind.

UI is more than the arrangement of icons on a screen. If I had to navigate that entire dashboard everytime I pressed the guide button, like the PS3 is set up, I'd probably despise the layout.

[Vane_MagicCity]

This is what you said: - But I'm not sure why you said that, cos the actual price you pay is the entire point and it's always available for less than $60.

Sale prices are sale prices. 160 GB PS3's are still $249 MSRP, even if they are on sale for $199 at Gamestop. In two days they will be back at $249 because that is the MSRP.

What is so hard about this concept?

[surly]

Sale prices are sale prices. 160 GB PS3's are still $249 MSRP, even if they are on sale for $199 at Gamestop. In two days they will be back at $249 because that is the MSRP.

Because Xbox Live Gold cards are perpetually available cheaper than 60 bucks somewhere, unlike a PS3 that's discounted for 2 days at Gamestop and then goes back up to full price. I have never paid RRP for Xbox Live Gold.

[Sega1991]

XBL is just ahead of the advertising game. Practically every other medium has ads whether you pay for it or not. I'm not happy about it, but ads are a part of our consumerist society and they aren't going anywhere.

You can say this, but as advertisements get continually more and more overbearing, people are finding ways to turn them off. Whenever I have to install a web browser, the first thing I get for it is Adblock Plus so I can pick and choose which websites I like enough to support their advertising endeavors. DVRs have ways to skip ads on TV shows - which has lead to advertising firms doing crazy things like partnering with Tivo to put internet-like banner ads that you can't skip, or TV networks themselves using ultra-obnoxious "cornerbug" advertisements that play over the show in question.

There is currently a war between those who want to advertise and those who do not want to be advertised to. Folks have already figured out ways to "turn off" ads on the Xbox Live Dashboard.

If your ads are so bad that people are finding ways to avoid seeing them, you are doing the opposite of what your job is supposed to be about.

[Infamous Chris]

Sale prices are sale prices. 160 GB PS3's are still $249 MSRP, even if they are on sale for $199 at Gamestop. In two days they will be back at $249 because that is the MSRP. What is so hard about this concept?

You can ALWAYS find a 12 month XBL card for $35-45 year round. Even less if you visit CAG or the GAF trading threads.

This is common knowledge.

[Vane_MagicCity]

UI is more than the arrangement of icons on a screen. If I had to navigate that entire dashboard everytime I pressed the guide button, like the PS3 is set up, I'd probably despise the layout.

I find the Metro UI to be a pain in the ass to use. Finding the games marketplace and navigating it is horrible compared to the old dashboard. PS Store isn't perfect but it beats Metro UI marketplace. I usually just use search to find what I am looking for in the Metro marketplace because it is so badly designed. Remember how DLC used to be in a list? Now it's in boxes and if memory serves, only 4 fit on a screen at a time. It doesn't make good use of 720p display. Oh yeah and let's not even talk about the video player for HDMI on Metro, it looks like I am watching TNG in heavy fog. Same TV and show with the PS3 looks great.

It seems that most people agree that the dashboards are getting worse and I say they are not designing dashboards for users, but rather for advertisers. So I'll take the XMB over Metro. It's not perfect but it also isn't designed to expose to me to as many ads as possible.

[Vane_MagicCity]

You can ALWAYS find a 12 month XBL card for $35-45 year round. Even less if you visit CAG or the GAF trading threads. This is common knowledge.

It's also irrelevant. You can probably find PS3's for less than MSRP anytime too but it's also irrelevant. When you compare competing prices, you use MSRP, you don't say "PS3's are $249 but 360's can be found for $151.20".

[see5harp]

Who cares about how much you can get cards for. His argument was that it's somehow harder to game or interact with your friends using the 360 (possibly worse because of some new ads that play every 10 songs in Last.fm), which most knowledgeable people would probably disagree with. More or different advertising will not change how anything related to gaming works on the system at all.

[Vane_MagicCity]

Because Xbox Live Gold cards are perpetually available cheaper than 60 bucks somewhere, unlike a PS3 that's discounted for 2 days at Gamestop and then goes back up to full price. I have never paid RRP for Xbox Live Gold.

So, if someone bought a PS3 on sale, they could say "I never paid MSRP for the PS3 therefore MSRP doesn't matter". Do you agree with that statement?

[RukusProvider]

Outside looking in gives a different perspective. I turned on my 360 just now and here is what I see on the Home tab. There are 5 boxes: - One says: Play Homefront which is the DVD drive - One says: Quickplay Here's where the trouble begins: - The big box has quickly scrolling ads for games and apps. I don't have ADHD but apparently they are targeting those that do. - A static image for Try MLB.TV - A static image for Godzilla, a movie on Crackle I guess. That box is usually running a video advertisement. So 60% of what you see when you turn the 360 on is advertisements and Microsoft thinks more ads are needed. So enjoy your adbox, I am truly thinking of trading it in for anoother PS3.

When I log into HBO GO, I see information tiles for all sorts of shows that I don't want to watch. Does that mean they are ads? I am paying for HBO GO after all. Should HBO GO simply take me to a search page where I have to look for content on my own?

I'm still curious how a multimedia device is suppose to inform you on new content and promotions. Should I be relying on message boards and websites instead on just turning on the device and getting that information? How is that more efficient for me?

The bottom right tile on most live windows is a true ad, agreed. However, the rest of the titles are content or promotion related. I fail to see what great disservice they perform. Can you help me understand?

[njean777]

You can ALWAYS find a 12 month XBL card for $35-45 year round. Even less if you visit CAG or the GAF trading threads. This is common knowledge.

It is also common knowledge you are still paying for what should be free, but I guess that is lost on some people.

When I log into HBO GO, I see information tiles for all sorts of shows that I don't want to watch. Does that mean they are ads? I am paying for HBO GO after all. Should HBO GO simply take me to a search page where I have to look for content on my own? I'm still curious how a multimedia device is suppose to inform you on new content and promotions. Should I be relying on message boards and websites instead on just turning on the device and getting that information? How is that more efficient for me? The bottom right tile on most live windows is a true ad, agreed. However, the rest of the titles are content or promotion related. I fail to see what great disservice they perform. Can you help me understand?

They can just do it like the ps3 and have ads in the store itself, not all over the place on the dashboard.

[NullPointer]

It seems that most people agree that the dashboards are getting worse and I say they are not designing dashboards for users, but rather for advertisers.

Couldn't agree more.

[Vane_MagicCity]

When I log into HBO GO, I see information tiles for all sorts of shows that I don't want to watch. Does that mean they are ads? I am paying for HBO GO after all. Should HBO GO simply take me to a search page where I have to look for content on my own? I'm still curious how a multimedia device is suppose to inform you on new content and promotions. Should I be relying on message boards and websites instead on just turning on the device and getting that information? How is that more efficient for me? The bottom right tile on most live windows is a true ad, agreed. However, the rest of the titles are content or promotion related. I fail to see what great disservice they perform. Can you help me understand?

I seem to get by just fine without having my devices advertise to me. You must have been gameless last gen since none of the consoles advertised to you.

[see5harp]

I find the Metro UI to be a pain in the ass to use. Finding the games marketplace and navigating it is horrible compared to the old dashboard. PS Store isn't perfect but it beats Metro UI marketplace. I usually just use search to find what I am looking for in the Metro marketplace because it is so badly designed. Remember how DLC used to be in a list? Now it's in boxes and if memory serves, only 4 fit on a screen at a time. It doesn't make good use of 720p display. Oh yeah and let's not even talk about the video player for HDMI on Metro, it looks like I am watching TNG in heavy fog. Same TV and show with the PS3 looks great. It seems that most people agree that the dashboards are getting worse and I say they are not designing dashboards for users, but rather for advertisers. So I'll take the XMB over Metro. It's not perfect but it also isn't designed to expose to me to as many ads as possible.

I think the only thing worse as far as the games marketplace is that indie games is now buried even further. Everything else is basically the same as before, and the PS Store actually does the same stupid shit with new releases (bundling trailers for unreleased games) in the list. The PS store is about equal as far as being shit on top of the fact that once you are in the store you are locked from doing anything else. Just do a bing search if it's hard to find what you're looking for. Do you go to the iOS app store and just browse through genres or release date to find something?

I wasn't aware that media playback had anything to do with UI but I will agree that the PS3 is great for finding local media and outputting it to a television.

[snoopeasystreet]

I dunno, this argument comes up again and again. Its like an unstoppable force versus an immovable force, people's opinions won't change.

As far as I'm concerned,gold is overpriced for what it is and adding ads on top of that just make it worse. I think the problem with it is that you don't really feel like your getting anything special for your subscription, you're just getting access to things that are free elsewhere and while the package as a whole is better than any of the other services, the only value in the service is as a whole. When you bulletpoint what gold gives you, its pretty crappy.