[M3d10n]

I'm secretly hoping Valve isn't just porting Steam, but developing their own distribution.

If the Steam Box thing is true, they might as well do it if Canonical and others don't keep up with their needs. They might also be looking into DirectX wrappers to offer to developers to make porting their games easier. I forgot the name, but there are some companies that offer such libraries (for Windows->OSX porting, at least).

[charlequin]

I'm secretly hoping Valve isn't just porting Steam, but developing their own distribution.

What would that really accomplish, though? How would that be more beneficial than working directly with the maintainers of the most prominent consumer distros (which would be, what, Ubuntu and Mint these days?) to build compatibility-oriented tools and cross-test new drivers?

[wsippel]

If the Steam Box thing is true, they might as well do it if Canonical and others don't keep up with their needs. They might also be looking into DirectX wrappers to offer to developers to make porting their games easier. I forgot the name, but there are some companies that offer such libraries (for Windows->OSX porting, at least).

I think you mean CodeWeavers and Transgaming, and the wrapper would be Wine in both cases - Transgaming's version is a very heavily modified/ rewritten closed source flavor forked many years ago when the Wine project switched from a BSD-style license to LGPL.

[aeolist]

What would that really accomplish, though? How would that be more beneficial than working directly with the maintainers of the most prominent consumer distros (which would be, what, Ubuntu and Mint these days?) to build compatibility-oriented tools and cross-test new drivers?

Making their own entire distribution would be stupid and pointless. Making a custom frontend/window manager might be worthwhile.

It's worth mentioning that anything they do to make Steam on Linux work better (drivers, Windows dll emulators or wrappers, etc) could very easily be incorporated upstream and work on any distribution.

[charlequin]

It's worth mentioning that anything they do to make Steam on Linux work better (drivers, Windows dll emulators or wrappers, etc) could very easily be incorporated upstream and work on any distribution.

Right, that's kind of my point though: unless the managers of other distros are completely intransigent about it, no benefit to localizing changes in a single distro environment rather than pushing for improvements to spread out into the broader Linux ecosystem.

[androvsky]

Right, that's kind of my point though: unless the managers of other distros are completely intransigent about it, no benefit to localizing changes in a single distro environment rather than pushing for improvements to spread out into the broader Linux ecosystem.

If they do their own distribution, they can actually get stuff done in a measurable timeframe. Other distros are not going to automatically jump on the Steam bandwagon and follow advice or anything; more than a few will automatically reject Steam just because it's a closed-source client for (mostly) closed-source games. (note: you'd still be able to install it, but those distros won't include it or put any effort towards making sure it or the games work).

There's some politics in even major libraries that everybody uses that surprised even me. Recently, someone managing glib made a change to malloc for a minor, questionable speed improvement on newer Intels that broke Flash (among other programs). It took Linus Torvalds ripping the maintainer a new one for a while before it got changed back. Stuff like that happens all the time, as much as I like Linux it can be a royal pain some times. So yes, I expect the managers of many (not all, granted, but many) to be completely intransigent. Intransigency is one of the founding principles of many distros, I'm pretty sure. :)

On the other hand, the one distro most likely to care is Ubuntu, which would be a pretty major victory by itself.

[charlequin]

If they do their own distribution, they can actually get stuff done in a measurable timeframe.

If they can't get major consumer distros and hardware makers on board to at least work with them then the whole thing is a massive waste of time and they should all move their desks back to working on something more practical, like modeling DOTA2 hats.

[Raoh]

If Steam is coming to Linux... more people will put games on Linux... which means I won't need Windows... OH MY GAWWWWD

This..


If I can get Steam and iTunes on Linux I'm good.

[androvsky]

If they can't get major consumer distros and hardware makers on board to at least work with them then the whole thing is a massive waste of time and they should all move their desks back to working on something more practical, like modeling DOTA2 hats.

They'll have the hardware makers on board, I'm sure. But as a big Linux fan, I'm not sure what getting Steam on major consumer distros (i.e., Ubuntu) gains them besides a major headache every time they release a game (and more headaches as they have to patch all the games they release when any supported distro does something to break compatibility). Last I checked, there's not much of a consumer base that wants to play games on Linux and nothing but Linux that Valve's currently missing out on. Looking at this thread, they'll at least get some people to switch operating systems, but they're already customers either way. And it's not like Valve has to pay the Windows tax currently, since they don't sell hardware.

But if Valve did want to eventually sell hardware, then having their own OS would be incredibly important. And it would be easier if they start with their own distro first.

[thcsquad]

There's some politics in even major libraries that everybody uses that surprised even me. Recently, someone managing glib made a change to malloc for a minor, questionable speed improvement on newer Intels that broke Flash (among other programs). It took Linus Torvalds ripping the maintainer a new one for a while before it got changed back. Stuff like that happens all the time, as much as I like Linux it can be a royal pain some times. So yes, I expect the managers of many (not all, granted, but many) to be completely intransigent. Intransigency is one of the founding principles of many distros, I'm pretty sure. :) On the other hand, the one distro most likely to care is Ubuntu, which would be a pretty major victory by itself.

Ubuntu, Fedora, and Mint are all that is really needed, and all should be very receptive to this. Ubuntu has already indicated that they are, and Mint was created as a more consumer-oriented, closed-source friendly version of Ubuntu. Fedora's policies seem to be similar to Ubuntu. The distros you're talking about seem to be ones like Debian, which shouldn't be a part of this discussion at all.

Last I checked, there's not much of a consumer base that wants to play games on Linux and nothing but Linux that Valve's currently missing out on. Looking at this thread, they'll at least get some people to switch operating systems, but they're already customers either way.

Humble Bundles say hi.

But if Valve did want to eventually sell hardware, then having their own OS would be incredibly important. And it would be easier if they start with their own distro first.

What might make sense is starting a derivative of something like Ubuntu. Stand on the shoulders of giants, but also get to add your own stuff, and pushing stuff upstream but not necessarily being held back by Ubuntu's release schedules.

[charlequin]

If I can get Steam and iTunes on Linux I'm good.

If iTunes specifically is that important to you, surely you might be better off considering OSX?

[charlequin]

But as a big Linux fan, I'm not sure what getting Steam on major consumer distros (i.e., Ubuntu) gains them besides a major headache every time they release a game (and more headaches as they have to patch all the games they release when any supported distro does something to break compatibility).

Putting aside the Gentoo nuts and other people who use Linux out of a hardline philosophical position (who won't take to Valve and their business practices anyway), people who use Linux on a personal computer overwhelmingly are a) using it for something in particular like development (because if they just want a more secure, Unix-based desktop OS, they might as well buy a Mac), and b) running one of those consumer distros (because that's the best compromise for usability and productivity.)

The goal of Linux Steam would be to sell games to people who already use Linux for productivity purposes, much like Mac Steam is serving a semi-captive market moreso than trying to create absolute parity between PC and Mac gaming. That's best served by coming to people where they already are, i.e. running Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, etc.

Anyway, I don't see any reason that Ubuntu (who are already actively promoting and selling proprietary software, including games, in the Ubuntu Software Center) would be opposed to working with Valve on this.

But if Valve did want to eventually sell hardware, then having their own OS would be incredibly important.

That's a pipe dream. A sufficiently great subset of PC gaming is not going to be viable on a custom OS (or Linux derivative) anytime in the next decade, so any kind of "Steam box" based on running software atop a custom Linux is pre-doomed to obscurity.

[MrCunningham]

Anyway, I don't see any reason that Ubuntu (who are already actively promoting and selling proprietary software, including games, in the Ubuntu Software Center) would be opposed to working with Valve on this.

Indeed. I suspect that most of the "user friendly" mainstream distros will embrace Steam for Linux. I'm sure Canonical will add it to their "partners" repository for download on the Software Center. The same thing will probably go for Mint as well, and a few other distros.

[androvsky]

Anyway, I don't see any reason that Ubuntu (who are already actively promoting and selling proprietary software, including games, in the Ubuntu Software Center) would be opposed to working with Valve on this.

Me neither. I already said I expect Ubuntu would probably work with Valve on getting Steam on Linux. And I even threw in the idea that if only Ubuntu went along it'd still be a pretty big deal in the Linux world.

My point is that even proprietary friendly distributions like Ubuntu have many interests to consider, and even working with Valve problems are likely to come up. Handling their own distro is more work, but gives them more control. Most of the libraries they'd be working with would be GPL, so it'd still benefit the rest of the community.

Humble Bundles say hi.

Across all Humble Bundles, Linux purchases were only 25% less than Mac OS, which is frankly better than I expected. They do famously spend a lot more, on average. I still maintain that not all of those Linux purchases would've been lost had there not been a Linux option, and that maintaining Steam clients and games across multiple distros will be more trouble than for OSX.

It'll make a lot of people very happy, myself included, so if that's Valve's main goal then that's great. I just don't think it'll make Valve a lot of new customers.

[iceatcs]

It is my dream. I keep upgrade new motherboard every 2/3 years. It is quite annoy I have to keep buy new windows every time.

[Flying_Phoenix]

SteamOS would be a horrible idea. People use Steam for more than just Valve games. Have fun trying to get people aboard the Steambox the lacks Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and Civilization.

Getting games on Mac is hard enough.

[Massa]

Anyway, I don't see any reason that Ubuntu (who are already actively promoting and selling proprietary software, including games, in the Ubuntu Software Center) would be opposed to working with Valve on this.

I don't see why Valve would want to work with any Linux distribution at all when they can simply target any Linux/glibc system and build a user friendly platform on top of that.

[CadetMahoney]

Finally we will be free of the Windows tyranny. I'll start holding my breath now.

I hope you are having big lungs.

heh

[androvsky]

SteamOS would be a horrible idea. People use Steam for more than just Valve games. Have fun trying to get people aboard the Steambox the lacks Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and Civilization. Getting games on Mac is hard enough.

Honest question: Does anyone know how well newer games like those work in Wine, if at all?

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

Honest question: Does anyone know how well newer games like those work in Wine, if at all?

It really depends. Blizzard Games and big releases work very well. The wine devs are working on stuff which is most requested. DX11 is still giving a headache though.
But you can look up what games are running and how good at http://appdb.winehq.org/

[Cramoss]

Steam: Linux client?No problem, why Linux logo in Windows client?

Oh my god, thank you for reminding me of that thread.

[Massa]

Honest question: Does anyone know how well newer games like those work in Wine, if at all?

A friend of mine was playing Fallout New Vegas on it at work, he said it worked pretty much perfectly.

[hardcastlemccormick]

Handling their own distro is more work, but gives them more control.

An insane amount of work that would require people to install a new OS? No. If supporting all of the Linuxes was a big deal, consider how large the support would have to be if they had their own bloody OS. Canonical has been running into this problem for years: the company's too small, yet too big of a project, and the product suffers.

And at this point, you can safely say Valve does things that aren't motivated by money. I bet you that the developers on this project are doing it because they simply want to.

Honest question: Does anyone know how well newer games like those work in Wine, if at all?

It changes from release to release, but the amount of supported software tends upward. It's a lot better than when I was fooling with it years ago.

[morningbus]

All Valve would need to do to get people to install their OS is offer an exclusive TF2 hat.

Not that I think Valve is working on their own OS or anything. There's nothing they could do by themselves that they can't do easier working with Ubuntu, especially if the rumors of Canonical signing deals and pushing hard for games on their storefront is true.

[kurtrussell]

A friend of mine was playing Fallout New Vegas on it at work, he said it worked pretty much perfectly.

Surely he lied? This is Bethesda we're talking about?

[Emitan]

Surely he lied? This is Bethesda we're talking about?

Obsidian~

[morningbus]

Obsidian~

Real Gs know New Vegas' problems weren't Obsidian's fault.

[Emitan]

Real Gs know New Vegas' problems weren't Obsidian's fault.

Well of course, I'm a huge Obsidian fangirl. A fangirl who's still bitter their name isn't on the front of the box >:|

[zoku88]

A friend of mine was playing Fallout New Vegas on it at work, he said it worked pretty much perfectly.

Depends. For me, at least, Fallout NV has this weird mouse issue for me. (It used to have this weird graphical glitch where certain textures were just...missing.)

Now, Paradox's games work pretty splendidly. Everything except for updating through the launcher, haha.

[charlequin]

I don't see why Valve would want to work with any Linux distribution at all when they can simply target any Linux/glibc system and build a user friendly platform on top of that.

I don't mean "work with" as in "develop an app solely for that distro" so much as "create interface integration packages, share efforts in certain areas of development, etc." Plus I don't really know what relationships between distros and the GPU manufacturers are like these days, but I'd have to imagine Valve entering the picture could help lead to driver improvements that would benefit everyone in the future.

I definitely agree a generic target at the lowest level would be the way to go though.

[thcsquad]

Across all Humble Bundles, Linux purchases were only 25% less than Mac OS, which is frankly better than I expected. They do famously spend a lot more, on average. I still maintain that not all of those Linux purchases would've been lost had there not been a Linux option, and that maintaining Steam clients and games across multiple distros will be more trouble than for OSX.

It's certainly true that many of those who bought a Linux Humble Bundle would have bought it sans Linux support as well, but...

1. Relying on brand loyalty to sell your product in spite of your customers' wishes, is not sustainable. Many companies do it, but Valve has made a lot of money by going the opposite way and bending over backwards to please their fans.

2. Valve knows that there is a market for this, and they probably know that their presence will make said market grow, and position them as that market's undisputed leader.

[crimsonheadGCN]

An update:

One of the first people I recruited for Valve when they were looking for good Linux referrals was Forest Hale, or better known within Internet communities (including the Phoronix Forums and Phoronix IRC) as LordHavoc. He was the lead developer on the DarkPlaces engine, which is the Quake-derived engine that was used by the open-source Nexuiz game and is now used by Xonotic as well. As can be seen when firing up the old Nexuiz or when running Xonotic, DarkPlaces is both technologically and visually impressive, especially for being a non-commercial GPL-based engine. Under contract he additionally was the lead on the Mac OS X and Linux ports of Quake Live. He's also done other Linux contract work, but for the work on the open-source DarkPlaces engine is where he's arguably most known. Now nearly one month ago he began work at Valve as part of the team/cabal working on the Linux version of Steam / Source Engine. There isn't anything new to announce today about their forthcoming Linux-native games and other initiatives, but the reason I'm mentioning this recruit publicly now is that Valve still should be looking at hiring more Linux developers.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTExMDM

[crimsonheadGCN]

Valve was with their Steam business partners discussing Linux and why Valve is supporting it:

http://www.pressfire.no/spesialer/e3...-sjefen-ler-av

[kuroshiki]

I tried ubuntu once and then hurried back to windows haven because of many limitations and technicalities. (WTF do you mean I don't have exe to install drivers? Wait, there is no drivers? WTF?)


Seriously you guys are excited because of semi-geek in your spirit, but majority of consumers are not very fond of linux. if at all.

[spuit*11]

I tried ubuntu once and then hurried back to windows haven because of many limitations and technicalities. (WTF do you mean I don't have exe to install drivers? Wait, there is no drivers? WTF?) Seriously you guys are excited because of semi-geek in your spirit, but majority of consumers are not very fond of linux. if at all.

Are you saying Linux doesn't work exactly like Windows?

This is brand new information, how dare they!

[morningbus]

I tried ubuntu once and then hurried back to windows haven because of many limitations and technicalities. (WTF do you mean I don't have exe to install drivers? Wait, there is no drivers? WTF?) Seriously you guys are excited because of semi-geek in your spirit, but majority of consumers are not very fond of linux. if at all.

Listen, I'm gonna level with you, as I'm on vacation and don't want to put in the work for nothing: are you being serious?

[Andrex]

Valve was with their Steam business partners discussing Linux and why Valve is supporting it: http://www.pressfire.no/spesialer/e3...-sjefen-ler-av

Finally something somewhat official.

[pmj]

There's something I'm wondering about. I use Linux exclusively, but despite that my Steam account has somehow ended up with 39 Windows games. When I use the Windows version of Steam with Wine, all games are there and can be downloaded and launched just as if I was using Windows. And a few of them are even playable! But what will it be like in the native client? Will it only display the games that have a Linux version, or will it display all games? And if all games are there, can you launch them through Wine via the client?

I assume it'll work in Linux like it currently works on Mac. How do they handle the problem of users being able to own games for a different OS than they're currently using?

[Emitan]

I tried ubuntu once and then hurried back to windows haven because of many limitations and technicalities. (WTF do you mean I don't have exe to install drivers? Wait, there is no drivers? WTF?) Seriously you guys are excited because of semi-geek in your spirit, but majority of consumers are not very fond of linux. if at all.

I tried to install stuff on my Mac but the exes wouldn't run! Consumers hate Macs!

[zoku88]

There's something I'm wondering about. I use Linux exclusively, but despite that my Steam account has somehow ended up with 39 Windows games. When I use the Windows version of Steam with Wine, all games are there and can be downloaded and launched just as if I was using Windows. And a few of them are even playable! But what will it be like in the native client? Will it only display the games that have a Linux version, or will it display all games? And if all games are there, can you launch them through Wine via the client? I assume it'll work in Linux like it currently works on Mac. How do they handle the problem of users being able to own games for a different OS than they're currently using?

I would assume you could only play Linux games unless Steam bundled in wine or something.

So, you would probably have to install two steam clients (one Linux and the other windows) in different places.


And LOL@kuroshiki. I'm pretty sure he's joking. No one is that dumb...

[Game Guru]

About the Steam Box, Steam OS thing... I can't really see Valve making either. However, I can see Valve working with Ubuntu, Mint and Fedora and various PC Hardware makers to make Linux Machines that are advertised in conjunction with Big Picture Mode as being akin to a Steam Console.

Why should Valve waste money making hardware and software outside of their skill set when they can just let others make the OS and PCs that will advertise their service?

[MrCunningham]

Finally something somewhat official.

I would pretty well call that a confirmation from Gabe.

[kurtrussell]

I tried to install stuff on my Mac but the exes wouldn't run! Consumers hate hipsters!

Fixed it for you

But what will it be like in the native client? Will it only display the games that have a Linux version, or will it display all games? And if all games are there, can you launch them through Wine via the client?

My instinct says that it'll filter out Linux natives. However, if they are really smart, they'll license Crossover from Codeweavers and have an api layer that will "support" a key set of Windows games and display these in the list, possibly with a disclaimer that they may not work 100% perfect yadda yadda yadda. I doubt that will happen though, particularly since developers are really prissy about things like that.

[crimsonheadGCN]

Another update about Valve's work with Linux:

As mentioned back in March, Valve's encountered OpenGL Linux performance problems. Those problems haven't been for the open-source Mesa/Gallium3D drivers that are riddled with issues and incomplete functionality, but with the proprietary AMD and NVIDIA Linux drivers. I haven't checked recently but I hope those performance issues are now worked out with the latest upstream binary blobs. I would assume those OpenGL performance problems have been worked out with Valve Software showing their Linux client to partners. Aside from Linux OpenGL, Valve is now evidently uncovering non-graphics related problems. Case in point is "[PATCH v2] perf symbols: Follow .gnu_debuglink section to find separate symbols." This recently-patched bug is addressing a Linux perf issue. "The .gnu_debuglink section is specified to contain the filename of the debug info file, as well as a CRC that can be used to validate it. This doesn't currently use the checksum and relies on the usual build-id matching for validation." The Linux kernel patch is authored by Pierre-Loup A. Griffais, a well-known NVIDIA Linux name. If looking at the patch, which can be found on the LKML, you will see: "Reported-by: Mike Sartain [mikesart@valvesoftware ] Tested-by: Mike Sartain [mikesart@valvesoftware ]" (The email addresses in this article has been intentionally obscured to avoid having Mike's address auto-harvested and spammed.) So Mike Sartain found the kernel bug and then also tested the fix while one of the NVIDIA Linux engineers went in to fix the perf problem.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTEzNDk

The Kernel update:

https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/6/22/338

[injurai]

does this look legit to anyone else?

edit: removed pic.

[Vamphuntr]

Is it normal that your password isn't blurred out?

[Stallion Free]

It's fake, jesus

[injurai]

Is it normal that your password isn't blurred out?

that isn't my password... i have no idea what it is.

[la_briola]

Mock if old.

Valve Beginning to List Linux System Requirements for Select Titles on Steam Perhaps hinting at the fact that the official Steam for Linux launch isn’t too far off, Valve has begun updating some game pages to include Linux system requirements. [...] The Linux system requirements for Serious Sam 3: BFE: [...] The stand-out requirement is of course Ubuntu 12.04. We’ve known all along that Valve has been focusing on supporting Ubuntu due to its massive userbase, but that doesn’t mean that all games will be supporting it exclusively. This is proven with a look at another game, Amnesia: The Dark Descent: Here, Linux Mint is supported along with Fedora – the latter being the more impressive mention as it’s not Debian-based like Ubuntu and Linux Mint are. [...]

Source: http://techgage.com/news/valve-begin...tles-on-steam/

[STG]

fein!