[A Pretty Panda]

I hope Jack Tretton is the final boss

[darkpaladinmfc]

Well no shit, if it was designed to be a competitive fighter, it would be a competitive fighter. Randomness doesn't make a game better from even a casual gameplay standpoint. If someone is better than you at something and the game doesn't reward good gameplay than the core of the game is indicative of nothing which means the game has no integrity. May as well make up a game whose rules are so arbitrary that the game can't even decide who's going to win.

What randomness is in Melee and how doesn't it reward good gameplay?

[Number45]

So Snake's level 3(if in) controlling a gekko maybe?

Calls in a Metal Gear?

[HyperBitHero]

So Snake's level 3(if in) controlling a gekko maybe?

If it's MGS4 Snake, it would be cool if he had an ability that turned him invisible with his Octocamo.

[James Sawyer Ford]

Is there any more footage besides GTTV and the Playstation Youtube that were released earlier today?

[QisTopTier]

What randomness is in Melee and how doesn't it reward good gameplay?

Items, morphing stages*that cause deaths*

Of course you could disable these. But then that goes against everything Hero is saying.

[Loudninja]

Is there any more footage besides GTTV and the Playstation Youtube that were released earlier today?

You watch the interview?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLGs8oS4ChU

[Razgriz-Specter]

Calls in a Metal Gear?

just based the idea on Kratos and Sweet Tooth's and REX would be too big.

[Imm0rt4l]

What randomness is in Melee and how doesn't it reward good gameplay?

I don't even know what you're talking about, I didn't say anything about melee, I'm taking issue with Hero saying that a game should not reward a superior player for playing better. A game can be both accessible and have some semblance of integrity.

[hatchx]

Not sure how I feel about this one.

I love Smash Bros, I love my PS3, but for some reason I can't picture myself finding any enjoyment in playing this.

I think it has a lot to do with the levels. In Smash Bros, the arenas were places in games. From what I've seen here, the Hades in Patapon world is just an unusual mash-up and the Ratchet and Clank level looks just like a themed background. From the very few levels they showcased, I don't get the feeling I'll be put into these scenarios. Not to mention the nostalgia involved in Smash Bros.

It all comes down to the controls and gameplay options, but right now I'll just wait and see.

[Razgriz-Specter]

really hope this game has some cutscenes.

[guek]

whoops, hit post before i was ready

[James Sawyer Ford]

You watch the interview? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLGs8oS4ChU

Missed that one, thanks!

[Comet]

Not sure how I feel about this one. I love Smash Bros, I love my PS3, but for some reason I can't picture myself finding any enjoyment in playing this. I think it has a lot to do with the levels. In Smash Bros, the arenas were places in games. From what I've seen here, the Hades in Patapon world is just an unusual mash-up and the Ratchet and Clank level looks just like a themed background. From the very few levels they showcased, I don't get the feeling I'll be put into these scenarios. Not to mention the nostalgia involved in Smash Bros. It all comes down to the controls and gameplay options, but right now I'll just wait and see.

Sandover Village is a pretty obvious location from Jak and Daxter. And then again, Melee and Brawl have very ambiguous stages as well. But I do get your point and concern about mashing up stages with background themes, that I find a little odd (but it could work, who knows).

[Mlatador]

I wish I could stress how completely irrelevant this is. StarCraft was never designed to be an ESPORT. .

Do you really mean by that that Starcraft wasn't designed to be highly balanced and played competitively in multiplayer (mostly 1 vs 1)?

[Darknessbear]

I have done this:

Lmao. This is great. You're a good Graphic Designer as well.

[King_Moc]

Yeah, I'm a little worried about the battle system as well. I mean, I realize that, like KevinCow explained earlier, that it's basically the reverse of Smash Bros, but I'm not at all convinced at this point that it will work out really well. It almost seems like if the only way to KO opponents in Smash was with Smash Balls, which I actually got kind of frustrated with in Brawl. I'm hoping it's more balanced here and ends up working out well.

You're playing it wrong. Smash attacks will get you more kills than anything. Throwing items is also pretty reliable when their percentage is high.

[darkpaladinmfc]

Items, morphing stages*that cause deaths* Of course you could disable these. But then that goes against everything Hero is saying.

Well regardless of what 'Hero' says, all actual competitive matches played with them off, which means you can ignore them when thinking about how competitively viable the game is. I'm sure PSASBR will have tons of options to increase the randomness for 'casuals' (the Buzz stage comes to mind).

I don't even know what you're talking about, I didn't say anything about melee, I'm taking issue with people saying that a game should not reward a superior player with playing better. A game can be both accessible and have some semblance of integrity.

You're saying things like "Welp, with that kind of mentality I guess it's no wonder smash community is considered a joke in the fgc and exposed as such. Glad you're not designing the game." Seems like you're saying Smash Bros has tons of randomness in it.

Do you really mean by that that Starcraft wasn't designed to be highly balanced and played competitively in multiplayer (mostly 1 vs 1)?

It wasn't at release. Vanilla StarCraft is actually extremely imbalanced. It took Brood War to make the game balanced, and even then the game is only balanced because of exploits in the game.

[Anth0ny]

He was answering someone that said 'All', not 'Most'. And yes, there is no fun to a multiplayer game that has no random element and the best player always wins. It's no fun for anyone. The win is 100% certain for the best player and the loss is 100% certain for the worse player. Obviously the best player should win most of the time. It seems odd to me that this thread is full of people pouring hype on a game that rips off a Nintendo franchise, yet are simultaneously against one of the main features of most Nintendo multiplayer titles. Even competitive games like Street Fighter have random elements. Or is guessing the right wake up attack pure skill now? Also, it has the ultra attacks. That game for babies now is it?

Is the win 100% certain for Justin Wong every time he plays Marvel 3? The best player can still make mistakes and the lesser player can capitalize and win. Not to mention the lesser player can *gasp* get better at the game! Random elements are totally unnecessary and bad players don't need to rely on them to win.

Accessibility did. But I like the direction they are going with here. It looks like it offers accessibly while also having substantially more depth. That's a killer combination to have, imho.

We call it the Super Smash Bros Melee approach.

[James Sawyer Ford]

Not sure how I feel about this one. I love Smash Bros, I love my PS3, but for some reason I can't picture myself finding any enjoyment in playing this. I think it has a lot to do with the levels. In Smash Bros, the arenas were places in games. From what I've seen here, the Hades in Patapon world is just an unusual mash-up and the Ratchet and Clank level looks just like a themed background. From the very few levels they showcased, I don't get the feeling I'll be put into these scenarios. Not to mention the nostalgia involved in Smash Bros. It all comes down to the controls and gameplay options, but right now I'll just wait and see.

I like the mash-ups.

It's hard to say that you aren't 'put into these scenarios' without listening to the music.

Honestly the stages in Smash Bros are good, but nothing that seems better than what's on display here. It's critical to combine the backgrounds with the music.

Without Smash Bros nostalgic score, would it give you the same magical feeling? Not really, IMHO. Music is so damn important.

So far we've heard nothing of the soundtrack. But SuperBot really needs to get the theme songs going for all of these levels. I want to hear Nate's Theme on his level, I want to hear the God of War soundtrack pumping in the background. It makes a MASSIVE difference in how you experience the levels and nostalgia.

[Papercuts]

You're playing it wrong. Smash attacks will get you more kills than anything. Throwing items is also pretty reliable when their percentage is high.

He's saying that's what he feels THIS game might be like, since supers are the only way to get a KO.

[KingK]

I just want to see if they could make an intro that comes anywhere close to the levels of awesome in the Melee intro

You're playing it wrong. Smash attacks will get you more kills than anything. Throwing items is also pretty reliable when their percentage is high.

I think you misread my post. I was saying that the concept in BR of only being able to KO with the supers would be like if a hypothetical Smash Bros game only let you KO with Smash Balls. I'm not saying that's what Smash Bros does right now, quite the opposite.

[HyperBitHero]

So, I've never played Parappa, so, Is there a reason he's flat? Is that just because he's 2-D, and they didn't want to be unfaithful to his design?

[Loudninja]

I like the creativity of the mash-up stages.

[Shiggy]

You have the gall to accuse me of ignoring your arguments and then miss what I stated several pages back already...

The problem just is that we are more or less saying the same but you want to tell me that I am saying something totally out of the world

And Sony also has those meaningful well-known franchises, plenty of them, just none that match Mario or Pokemon in terms of sales. What I'm saying for the umpteenth time is that it doesn't matter. The measure of BR's success isn't that it beats SSBB in sales but that it returns a profit and creates awareness for all the franchises that appear in the game while enabling a new generation to discover the more obscure ones. Right now, God of War, Uncharted and LittleBigPlanet, Jak & Daxter and Rachet & Clank have created more than enough recognition to ably sell a game like BR. Who gives a shit if Sony doesn't have their own Mario, that's irrelevant and a pointless comparison to make.

If you do not want to talk about the game's commercial success compared to SSBB, then you shouldn't have replied in the first place. I already mentioned the reasons why, and told you, if you do not want to talk about this topic just get out. You seem to be a bit ignorant as that is a point that I can discuss, why shouldn't I?

I don't like the opinions that are repeated over and over again and then just as easily dismissed and proven wrong. Battle Royale doesn't have a character approaching the level of awareness that Mario does... doesn't matter. Simple as that.

If you do not have the abilities to understand why comparing the sales of SSBB and ASBR and why the popularity of the franchises included in these titles make sense, then you probably never learnt why comparisons make sense.


So if you do not want to read my post again, I'll sum it up:
1. The commercial success of this game heavily depends on the characters and franchises featured in it. Sony does not have franchises that are as widely known as Mario or Pokemon, which - in my opinion - were a key to the success of the original SSB. To make this clear, I never said that Sony does not have well-know franchises.
2. A comparison between the two titles is absolutely valid due to their many similarities.
3. Sales are a means to measure the commercial success of a game
4. Based on 1. I expect the sales of ASBR to be lower than the sales of SSB, which does not mean that this game should not exist.
5. Based on all this, I can make comparisons between the sales and my expectations for sales of ASBR in this thread, while also giving reasoning for these expectations which I did in the beginning.

See, don't we agree on this?

[prwxv3]

So, I've never played Parappa, so, Is there a reason he's flat? Is that just because he's 2-D, and they didn't want to be unfaithful to his design?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eZcV1UuUzI

[Friedreich]

So, I've never played Parappa, so, Is there a reason he's flat? Is that just because he's 2-D, and they didn't want to be unfaithful to his design?

All characters in Parappa games are flat.

[Hero]

I wish I could stress how completely irrelevant this is. StarCraft was never designed to be an ESPORT.

How is it irrelevant? A comment was made that no wonder Smash Bros isn't included for fighting games in the world of eSports. Why would that matter considering it wasn't designed or marketed as such? RTS games have always been competitive, even before Starcraft. What is the point you are making here?

Yes it is a skill actually... The more skilled player shouldn't win 100% of the time. But the person who PLAYED BETTER should win 99.9% of the time.

The whole point is trying to find a good balance of what is an acceptable ratio of skilled players winning to where less skilled players can still win enough that they feel like continuing to play the game.

Well no shit, if it was designed to be a competitive fighter, it would be a competitive fighter. Randomness doesn't make a game better from even a casual gameplay standpoint. If someone is better than you at something and the game doesn't reward good gameplay than the core of the game is indicative of nothing which means the game has no integrity.

Randomness/luck is completely a factor for a casual standpoint. If you don't understand this, there is a plethora of information regarding this available on the web and if you want I can happily link you to some of them.

Fighting games died because arcades died. If there was online play back in the day like we have now, there would of never been a "resurgence" Why blow all that cash in the arcades for a few games when you could go home and play more games for a single cost. Once again smash is a bad example.

Arcades dying is another factor but they're closely tied together.

[GooeyHeat]

You're playing it wrong. Smash attacks will get you more kills than anything. Throwing items is also pretty reliable when their percentage is high.

Smash Ball = Brawl item that gives you Final Smash (super move)

Make more sense now?

[Imm0rt4l]

You're saying things like "Welp, with that kind of mentality I guess it's no wonder smash community is considered a joke in the fgc and exposed as such. Glad you're not designing the game." Seems like you're saying Smash Bros has tons of randomness in it.

That post speaks for itself, didn't even say anything about smash being random(to be clear it is random, but on a competitive level that stuff is mitigated).

[AgentChris]

Parappa Vita would be godly.

[Eppy Thatcher]

Enter Playstation brawl topic and jump through pages randomly reading posts looking for good conversation and find nothing but ssbb talk.

Coulda swore i'd seen a few smash brothers threads when I was a lurker. Shame all these people don't know there's whole threads dedicated to their interests. Dirty shame.

---------------------------------------

on topic.. this game NEEDS jumping flash and some Battle Arena characters... I would love to see some crazy old school Sony brand characters get a current gen makeover.. even if it is only in a brawler game. I can see Jumping Flash's super now .. shoot into the sky and then get a targeting arrow at the top of the screen... bouncey bouncey bouncey!

[P90]

Look again. It's actually a Sony version of Smash Bros.

A poor man's version.

[James Sawyer Ford]

Anyone else think that a better name for this game would be:

Playstation Brawl-Stars?

[King_Moc]

I just want to see if they could make an intro that comes anywhere close to the levels of awesome in the Melee intro I think you misread my post. I was saying that the concept in BR of only being able to KO with the supers would be like if a hypothetical Smash Bros game only let you KO with Smash Balls. I'm not saying that's what Smash Bros does right now, quite the opposite.

Sorry, my bad.

[jaypah]

from my info thingy

Wow, a nod to Buzz in the middle of the match? That's pretty clever!

[Ploid 3.0]

So Snake's level 3(if in) controlling a gekko maybe?

No... come on man, MAN! REX

Snake In REX!

[QisTopTier]

Anyone else think that a better name for this game would be: Playstation Brawl-Stars?

Would probably have that title if gameloft made it XD

[Loudninja]

A poor man's version.

You are so clever.

[darkpaladinmfc]

That post speaks for itself, didn't even say anything about smash being random(to be clear it is random, but on a competitive level that stuff is mitigated).

Ok, but that same level of randomness will be an option in this game with things like the Buzz level and other game modes. I feel like I've missed part of the conversation here or something >_<.

How is it irrelevant? A comment was made that no wonder Smash Bros isn't included for fighting games in the world of eSports. Why would that matter considering it wasn't designed or marketed as such? RTS games have always been competitive, even before Starcraft. What is the point you are making here?

Just because the game wasn't 'made' to be competitive it doesn't mean that the game can't be or isn't competitive.

The whole point is trying to find a good balance of what is an acceptable ratio of skilled players winning to where less skilled players can still win enough that they feel like continuing to play the game.

Ideally the person who played better (not always the better player) will always win. If you can't deal with that add the randomness stuff in as a modifier and be happy.

[KingK]

I like the mash-ups. It's hard to say that you aren't 'put into these scenarios' without listening to the music. Honestly the stages in Smash Bros are good, but nothing that seems better than what's on display here. It's critical to combine the backgrounds with the music. Without Smash Bros nostalgic score, would it give you the same magical feeling? Not really, IMHO. Music is so damn important. So far we've heard nothing of the soundtrack. But SuperBot really needs to get the theme songs going for all of these levels. I want to hear Nate's Theme on his level, I want to hear the God of War soundtrack pumping in the background. It makes a MASSIVE difference in how you experience the levels and nostalgia.

Agreed, music is so important for this. I really wish they would just release an unedited, un-commentated complete match gameplay video for this.

[TimeEffect]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=467412 More info next week.

Oh, I know of it :P

HOW DO U WIN IN THIS GAME THOUGH!?? Someone answer me, please?

[darkpaladinmfc]

Oh, I know of it :P HOW DO U WIN IN THIS GAME THOUGH!?? Someone answer me, please?

By using combos on people you gain super meter. The only way to score kills is by using your super moves on people. There are three levels of super moves. Game can be played with a timer or with a set number of lives.

[Hero]

Just because the game wasn't 'made' to be competitive it doesn't mean that the game can't be or isn't competitive. Ideally the person who played better (not always the better player) will always win. If you can't deal with that add the randomness stuff in as a modifier and be happy.

Anything can be competitive. Rock, paper scissors can be competitive (and actually has tournaments and competitions) but do most people take it seriously? No. Your argument doesn't make sense, bro.

[James Sawyer Ford]

Agreed, music is so important for this. I really wish they would just release an unedited, un-commentated complete match gameplay video for this.

Yeah, agreed. I want to get a taste of the music.

Paul Gale commented on it briefly, just saying that the LittleBigPlanet stage had awesome music.

[Loudninja]

Oh, I know of it :P HOW DO U WIN IN THIS GAME THOUGH!?? Someone answer me, please?

Who ever has the most KOs at the end of the match wins.

You KO people with super moves.

[Imm0rt4l]

Randomness/luck is completely a factor for a casual standpoint. If you don't understand this, there is a plethora of information regarding this available on the web and if you want I can happily link you to some of them.

It is a factor....but you said that Randomness/luck should supersede skill. Your assertion is that a superior player shouldn't win more consistently because whatever random factor in the game should override that. This is horrible from a fundamental gameplay standpoint and if you don't understand that then I guess we're at an impasse. But it's simple, really.

Ok, but that same level of randomness will be an option in this game with things like the Buzz level and other game modes. I feel like I've missed part of the conversation here or something >_<.

Yea, you missed the part that started this which is why I can't really fault you. But I agree with you that some randomness will be an option in this game.

[QisTopTier]

Anything can be competitive. Rock, paper scissors can be competitive (and actually has tournaments and competitions) but do most people take it seriously? No. Your argument doesn't make sense, bro.

Sounds like you are just spewing out arguments now for the sake of arguing

[-viper-]

Agreed, music is so important for this. I really wish they would just release an unedited, un-commentated complete match gameplay video for this.

If the game drastically improves its currently terrible graphics and has great music to boot, it will be a definite buy.

Killzone 1, 2, 3 themes
Uncharted music
God of War music

It will be fantastic.

[DisenLedZep]

While the art and characters are not my cup of tea (only you my dear Fat Princess, you are irresistible), I really like how the game flows. Those 60 fps are godlike.

Also the interactive / mixed scenarios are a nice touch.

Online should be no problem and a great plus.

I'm expecting more of this. I'll wait to see where everything is heading, but as a brawler fan, I'm willing to buy this day zero.