[Imm0rt4l]

No I haven't played the game either. I'm just having a hard time understanding the thinking behind normals doing no damage.

So am I, but I'm going to wait for more detailed impressions before I say what's best for the game seeing as this isn't really a typical 'fighting game' anyways. This doesn't need to adhere to the same sort of ruleset. I'd like to think that with talented guys like Ed Ma and Maj to help on the combat end that they aren't going to put out a broken mess, but again I'll just have to wait and see.

[Pranay_]

Pretty neat that Maj and Ed Ma are working on this. That's surprising.

Yeah, thats really good

We’ve grown into a fairly large team – with quite a few oldschool fighting game community members whose names you may recognize, such as senior combat designer Ed Ma and lead animator Tommy Ho. These guys have been in the game industry for a very long time and their experience has been a huge asset on this project. Our goal was to make every facet of Battle Royale’s gameplay as deep, varied, polished, and accessible as possible – so that it would be fun and rewarding for anyone to pick up and play. When it comes to core combat systems and high level design decisions, i have a ridiculous amount of faith in Omar, Paul, Ed, and our team as a whole.

http://shoryuken.com/2012/04/28/maj-...t-design-team/

[guek]

Yea they really are not biased toward anything. Usually they are fine to me but the last podcast was weird. In the two-part in-depth video about this game they made they were pretty positive and sounded genuine but in IW they were pretty negative.

I dunno man. Those guys IW loooooove their 360s. But that's like an editorial roundtable, so some level of bias is expected. They do try to remove that for their other features.

[KevinCow]

The fun of normals is reducing health by playing mind games with the other player. You're reducing their health because they slip up, and you get a few good hits in that make the battle even more tense. If your normals do nothing but build meter, the enjoyment of normals kinda disappears, because nothing actually matter until someone pops a super.

That's like saying that nothing matters in a normal fighting game until someone is down to 10% health.

In this game, building meter is reducing health.

In other games, if your opponent slips up and you get in a few hits, the battle is more tense because they have less health. In this game, if your opponent slips up and you get in a few hits, the battle is more tense because you now have a killing move.

You know the tension in another fighting game when someone has a full super bar? The player with the super is tense because he wants to use it but doesn't want to miss and waste it, the other player is tense because he knows that super's gonna fuck him up if it connects. It seems like that's the whole point of this game.

punch dudes --> get meter --> use super or build more meter to next level --> KO rinse & repeat. I'm also a bit concerned that more defensive players would be handicapped by that setup. I just want to see a bit more variety.

Punch dudes -> Lower health -> KO -> rinse & repeat. That's every other fighting game ever.

Except that defensive players are at an automatic disadvantage, since whoever is hitting the most is going to get meter faster than whoever is zoning/turtling. And since normals don't do any damage, you can't whittle down opponents.

Yes. The player who is getting more hits in is at an advantage. That's how fighting games work. If you're playing defensively and the other guy is hitting you more than you're hitting him, then you're not doing a good job at playing defensively, are you?

Whittling your opponent down = whittling your meter up. It's the same thing, as far as this game is concerned.

Imagine if they flipped it around to the standard health bar. When someone gets down to 66% of their health, you can do a level 1 super on them. When they get to 33%, you can do a level 2. When they're empty, you can do a level 3. You can whittle their health down, but you have to finish with a super. As far as a 1v1 is concerned, this would play identically to what we have now.


I had the same immediate negative reaction when they first mentioned this system. But the more I think about it, the more I find it to be one of the most intriguing things about this game. It might work out, it might not, but either way, I think it'll be very interesting to see in practice.

[Callibretto]

Except that defensive players are at an automatic disadvantage, since whoever is hitting the most is going to get meter faster than whoever is zoning/turtling. And since normals don't do any damage, you can't whittle down opponents. This is one thing I'm wondering as well. If higher meter means you get greater hitstun and knock back, or hitting you gives more meter to opponents, it would give zoning characters a fighting chance.

the goal of racking points while racing against time already made defensive playstyle not suited for the game imo. the game is obviously designed to encourage constant action nonstop. the stages are not that big, and you hardly can move anywhere without always being near other player.

[cednym]

Yeah, I'm not seeing the problem with this. Think of the super meter as a reverse health meter -- instead of winning by decreasing your opponent's, you win by increasing your own. Hitting the opponent makes it harder for them to build their meter and win.

[jett]

old?

These pics are better, I like the hazy lighting.

[prwxv3]

I don't think anyone can really say anything about the combat system until you play it. That's why I think they should do a beta. It would really promote the game and Superbot can get some really good fan feedback.

[WillyFive]

These pics are better, I like the hazy lighting.

Not if it makes harder to see and focus on where your character is.

[Visualante2]

so... when did Fat Princess become a Playstation iconic character?

When they realised their console was built largely on male characters since the demise of Lara Croft.

[Schobeleth]

They've said that there's definitely a stock mode.

Where?! I'll be ecstatic to read such news :) If this is true then all worries are gone, seriously. I mean the main mode sounds fun and interesting, I'd just prefer survival. Also I can see where the super meter could make things very interesting/tactical after you described it more. I want to see more gameplay... I'm trying to find more chunks but it seems anything outside of the few minute or so clips out there is hard to find.

[shaowebb]

People are very hung up on the whole supers for KOs thing, sounds like they just feel like they'll be dying too much. But you need to look at it from the perspective of this game and not Smash; in Smash it is generally harder to kill your opponent but I dont see why the kill counts can't be higher in this, it's a different game.

I'm not certain it'll be easier to kill folks in this game without ringouts if the ability to steal meter or deplete it is easy enough to do. I'd like to see more live commentary gaming of this to really understand meter control during gameplay since this is gonna be like a tug of war to get a killshot option for your character via supers. Plus I have no clue how easy or hard its gonna be to dodge super attempts for KO's yet. Its gonna be frantic is the one thing I'm certain about. Whether its building meter or removing it from others this setup forces players to stay on top of each other at all times.

I like that some cast are better blockers where others are better dodgers too. I know a lot of folks who just prefer to dodge rather than pop a shield in Smash so having cast that are either better at one or the other benefits both the dodgers and the good on reaction blockers that stay in your face. Fun gimmick.

[Loudninja]

nvm

[Callibretto]

hmm can supers be blocked? looks like Parappa lv 3 supers of deadly rapping can't be blocked. but it's a lv 3 supers so it'll be hard to get ,and although I haven't seen it, since Parrappa is raping and other character got killed after he finish, I guess that give other player chance to interupt parappa

[thetrin]

Punch dudes -> Lower health -> KO -> rinse & repeat. That's every other fighting game ever. Yes. The player who is getting more hits in is at an advantage. That's how fighting games work. If you're playing defensively and the other guy is hitting you more than you're hitting him, then you're not doing a good job at playing defensively, are you?

That's an INCREDIBLY reductionist perception of how fighting games work. There's a lot of strategy in trading normals in fighting games, and if all they do is build meter, a lot of the strategy doesn't have to matter, because getting trapped in a combo does nothing to YOU. You can still avoid the super when they pop it. You can still escape and fight someone else. The peril in being hit with a normal is delayed to when the super occurs, which means that any misstep you make while trading hits with opponents is greatly diminished. You need to concentrate less on individual hits, and just have to make sure you avoid the opponents' super the minute you see it pop (if possible...if it's not possible to avoid a lvl 3 super, that's even more stupid).

hmm can supers be blocked?

If they can't be blocked, they better at least be easily avoidable. I would assume that regular supers would be block able, and grab supers would require avoidance.

I don't think anyone can really say anything about the combat system until you play it. That's why I think they should do a beta. It would really promote the game and Superbot can get some really good fan feedback.

I'm down to try a beta. I want to know more about the game. I'm just saying I don't really understand the worth in not having normals do any damage. It seems like oversimplification. People are not idiots. We can handle a game that has layers of strategy. It doesn't have to be "First to Super: The Game". That sounds really boring actually.

[Loudninja]

hmm can supers be blocked? looks like Parappa lv 3 supers of deadly rapping can't be blocked. but it's a lv 3 supers so it'll be hard to get ,and although I haven't seen it, since Parrappa is raping and other character got killed after he finish, I guess that give other player chance to interupt parappa

Thats why you should attack people with high super bars.

I think items is going to be very useful.

[guek]

That's like saying that nothing matters in a normal fighting game until someone is down to 10% health. In this game, building meter is reducing health. In other games, if your opponent slips up and you get in a few hits, the battle is more tense because they have less health. In this game, if your opponent slips up and you get in a few hits, the battle is more tense because you now have a killing move. You know the tension in another fighting game when someone has a full super bar? The player with the super is tense because he wants to use it but doesn't want to miss and waste it, the other player is tense because he knows that super's gonna fuck him up if it connects. It seems like that's the whole point of this game.

I question this train of thought. I think there is going to be huge difference in the quality of mind games in this game, and it's clear that the tension derived from encounters is going to feel completely different from what we've seen in a lot of other fighters. I'm reserving judgement, but I think you're wrong to imply that it'll feel relatively similar to other fighters.

Punch dudes -> Lower health -> KO -> rinse & repeat. That's every other fighting game ever.

Not in smash. Not in most fighting games, really. It's orders of magnitude more complicated than that.

Yes. The player who is getting more hits in is at an advantage. That's how fighting games work. If you're playing defensively and the other guy is hitting you more than you're hitting him, then you're not doing a good job at playing defensively, are you? Whittling your opponent down = whittling your meter up. It's the same thing, as far as this game is concerned. Imagine if they flipped it around to the standard health bar. When someone gets down to 66% of their health, you can do a level 1 super on them. When they get to 33%, you can do a level 2. When they're empty, you can do a level 3. You can whittle their health down, but you have to finish with a super. As far as a 1v1 is concerned, this would play identically to what we have now.

Again, this game is not identical to any other fighter, which is why some people are raising concerns over its mechanics. If you play defensively in this game, you might be at a total disadvantage in this game unless you play a ranged character. Getting your meter up to win is also a bit dubious because, iirc, higher level specials are unblockable, right? This is COMPLETELY different from linear 2D fighters where half the time you're looking for a small chink their defense to slip in a combo.

I had the same immediate negative reaction when they first mentioned this system. But the more I think about it, the more I find it to be one of the most intriguing things about this game. It might work out, it might not, but either way, I think it'll be very interesting to see in practice.

Well I definitely agree here. I'm not saying it wont turn out great, but there are definitely fundamental differences in this game compared to other fighters. I'm anxious to watch "pro" matches of this game to see what they'd look like.

[Brobzoid]

hmm can supers be blocked? looks like Parappa lv 3 supers of deadly rapping can't be blocked. but it's a lv 3 supers so it'll be hard to get ,and although I haven't seen it, since Parrappa is raping and other character got killed after he finish, I guess that give other player chance to interupt parappa

oh my... (´･ω･`)

[jett]

Not if it makes harder to see and focus on where your character is.

Not really seeing that.

[Callibretto]

oh my... (´･ω･`)

it's the truth, one of the preview I read said the final match they played, it's basically Parappa vs Parappa vs Parappa vs Kratos.

he is god tier from the early previews I read.

[spindashing]

Is there video footage of PaRappa's supers? Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

[KidAmnesiacs]

This game looks like the equivalent of what ModNation Racers was to Mario Kart...

shit

[SolidSnakex]

Is there video footage of PaRappa's supers? Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

They weren't allowed to record his Level 3 Super because Sony is still working out the licensing issues. But his other Supers are shown in the Game Trailers "First Take" videos.

[chubigans]

Not if it makes harder to see and focus on where your character is.

Its a good thing no one has complained about that in any of the hands on reports I've seen.

[guek]

When they realised their console was built largely on male characters since the demise of Lara Croft.

Boo! I hope they get more games from Japanese characters in there. Oh fuck! I just realized, Samanosuke needs to be in this game.

[futuramaguy42]

One thing I noticed in the video that was really offputting was that it seemed in a lot of the rounds the people simply pick a small corner of the stage and start mashing buttons. Since there's no health bar, there's no motive to move away from other players so it's always just a clump of 4 players wailing on eachother.

[VanWinkle]

When they realised their console was built largely on male characters since the demise of Lara Croft.

No different with Nintendo and Microsoft.

[Resistance100]

This game looks like the equivalent of what ModNation Racers was to Mario Kart... shit

Don't really see the big comparison with those two.

Sony's answer to Mario Kart was Crash Team Racing which was awesome (and still is today). From what i've seen of this it looks like a lot of fun and is on my radar.

[futuramaguy42]

Don't really see the big comparison with those two. Sony's answer to Mario Kart was Crash Team Racing which was awesome (and still is today). From what i've seen of this it looks like a lot of fun and is on my radar.

CTR is ok but not as good as the Mario Kart series or Diddy Kong Racing.

[User Name Here]

Is there anyway to lower someones super meter?

[Professor Beef]

CTR is ok but not as good as the Mario Kart series or Diddy Kong Racing.

CTR is worlds better than Mario Kart 64. MK64 is unplayable to me now.

[Tiamant]

I don't understand the dull-colour talk of a few pages ago. If anything I believe that characters like Sweet Tooth are way more colorful than they should be and scenarios like Metropolis, the Golf one or LBP are really colorful and vibrant.

Am I colour blind GAF?

[AndyD]

What this game needs is quick/instant loading at first and between rounds.

[cednym]

I don't understand the dull-colour talk of a few pages ago. If anything I believe that characters like Sweet Tooth are way more colorful than they should be and scenarios like Metropolis, the Golf one or LBP are really colorful and vibrant. Am I colour blind GAF?

No, I'm with you. The mob mentality is powerful like that. There's nothing wrong with the color, and this isn't the first time I've seen GAF complain about a game's "dullness."

[prwxv3]

No, I'm with you. The mob mentality is powerful like that. There's nothing wrong with the color, and this isn't the first time I've seen GAF complain about a game's "dullness."

They can make the visuals better though. I expect polishing much later.

[Ploid 3.0]

it's the truth, one of the preview I read said the final match they played, it's basically Parappa vs Parappa vs Parappa vs Kratos. he is god tier from the early previews I read.

But that guy won because he didn't save up for Parappa's lv 3, and instead used a mix of lv1-2.

[KidAmnesiacs]

Don't really see the big comparison with those two. Sony's answer to Mario Kart was Crash Team Racing which was awesome (and still is today). From what i've seen of this it looks like a lot of fun and is on my radar.

my point is...

this game looks dull and maybe a little too contrived for it's own good.

[Seventy_X_Seven]

That's like saying that nothing matters in a normal fighting game until someone is down to 10% health. In this game, building meter is reducing health. In other games, if your opponent slips up and you get in a few hits, the battle is more tense because they have less health. In this game, if your opponent slips up and you get in a few hits, the battle is more tense because you now have a killing move. You know the tension in another fighting game when someone has a full super bar? The player with the super is tense because he wants to use it but doesn't want to miss and waste it, the other player is tense because he knows that super's gonna fuck him up if it connects. It seems like that's the whole point of this game. Punch dudes -> Lower health -> KO -> rinse & repeat. That's every other fighting game ever. Yes. The player who is getting more hits in is at an advantage. That's how fighting games work. If you're playing defensively and the other guy is hitting you more than you're hitting him, then you're not doing a good job at playing defensively, are you? Whittling your opponent down = whittling your meter up. It's the same thing, as far as this game is concerned. Imagine if they flipped it around to the standard health bar. When someone gets down to 66% of their health, you can do a level 1 super on them. When they get to 33%, you can do a level 2. When they're empty, you can do a level 3. You can whittle their health down, but you have to finish with a super. As far as a 1v1 is concerned, this would play identically to what we have now. I had the same immediate negative reaction when they first mentioned this system. But the more I think about it, the more I find it to be one of the most intriguing things about this game. It might work out, it might not, but either way, I think it'll be very interesting to see in practice.

Exactly. I know other's like guek already countered every point made here, but it really is the same thing. It's just a change in how you perceive it. A great example in my opinion would be the difference between two common competitive game modes, Deathmatch and Last Man Standing (in both team and free for all versions). In Deathmatch you are trying to rack up as many kills as possible, and in Last Man Standing you are trying to deplete your opponents from all their lives. In the end its really the same exact thing just looked at in a different perspective.

And obviously it's many orders of magnitude more complicated than "punching -> lowering health -> KO", but I also think it is pretty obvious you were just stating a generalization in layman's terms.

The only changes this brings that I'm unsure about is for one since you can dodge supers you can get hit as many times as you want by normals and be fine so long as you are good at dodging the supers. Still you ideally rather the enemy not get supers so this is not that big an issue. What is potentially a big issue/flaw is that when playing with three or four players, you can simply target the weaker opponent to fill your meter and then use your special to KO the tougher competition. Sort of punishing you for someone elses shortcoming. . . Edit: though I haven't played it so I don't really know. Maybe it'll add a new dynamic of recognizing who the strong and weak competition are and making sure the stronger competitors don't get to attack the weaker guys (which in a sense forms a very short-lived alliance with the weaker player which could be good). I mean in most fighters with more than two players there always seems to be a unspoken agreement to kill off the flies first so the real competitors can face off without interruptions, whereas with this if it plays out like I'm imagining would give the weaker players more of a chance to get familiar with everything without getting pounded to death in the opening moments.

[James Sawyer Ford]

The game is specifically designed for non-stop action. The guys that are out there stringing combos together are going to boost their meter faster, and people to get more KOs if they use their supers more effectively.


If you're a "defensive" player that is just trying to not get himself killed, then perhaps survival mode is more for you. You guys do realize there are two different modes, right? One where your objective is to get the most KOs (which is designed mostly towards offensive styles of play), and another mode where your objective is to just survive.

The tension in this game will be through the strategic use of supers, and that adds a whole layer of depth to the game that I think will be awesome to play out. There's going to be a lot of moments where two players are pitted up against eachother in survival mode where both have the same supers available, and they have to pick when to use it.

This game looks like the equivalent of what ModNation Racers was to Mario Kart... shit

Uhhhhh, no.

But thanks for your hyperbole and salty tears.

Thought we were done with this sort of garbage.

[Ploid 3.0]

Is there anyway to lower someones super meter?

Yes, a lot of ways, not to mention the stage hazards. I think regular attacks can even reduce their meter, maybe its specials like mines, or stage pickups like hades spear.

[Anonymous Tipster]

No, I'm with you. The mob mentality is powerful like that. There's nothing wrong with the color, and this isn't the first time I've seen GAF complain about a game's "dullness."

Visit some Twilight Princess threads. This is nothing.

[Loudninja]

The unique system to me is better than just the standard health system.

[KalBalboa]

This game looks like the equivalent of what ModNation Racers was to Mario Kart... shit

Mod Nation is a blast. Take it easy.

[FrenchMovieTheme]

my point is... this game looks dull and maybe a little too contrived for it's own good.

bitter nintendo tears

[KevinCow]

That's an INCREDIBLY reductionist perception of how fighting games work.

Yes.

That's the point.

It was intentional.

His example was incredibly reductionist about how this game will work, so I was pointing out that you can take that same incredibly reductionist attitude towards regular fighting games.

How was that not clear.

Again, this game is not identical to any other fighter, which is why some people are raising concerns over its mechanics. If you play defensively in this game, you might be at a total disadvantage in this game unless you play a ranged character. Getting your meter up to win is also a bit dubious because, iirc, higher level specials are unblockable, right? This is COMPLETELY different from linear 2D fighters where half the time you're looking for a small chink their defense to slip in a combo.

Alright, can we take a second to define what we mean by "playing defensively"? Because it seems to me that if you're playing defensively, you shouldn't be getting hit a lot. And if you're not getting hit a lot, your opponent shouldn't be building meter. And if you aren't building meter, it's because you're not getting many hits in.

Tell me, in what fighting game is "playing defensively" by getting hit a lot and not getting many of your own hits in a viable strategy for winning?

[Seventy_X_Seven]

Is there anyway to lower someones super meter?

From my understanding after watching all the gameplay clips, your character attacks build up your special and don't directly affect the other player where as using items does not build up your special but instead drains the targets special which is seem visually as the player dropping a bunch of orbs which can then be recollected to fill your own special.

[tapedeck]

I think Sony really needs to (and will) hit a homerun with the 3rd party chars they select, I think that's gonna be the main reason people will buy the game. They need at least 3 imo, Cloud is a must have, hes just expected by everyone who hears about this game to be in it (Id prefer Auron but eh). Megaman would obviously be huge too but Im not sure they will go that route cause he started out on Nintendo and isnt really the first thing that comes up when you think "Playstation", maybe that doesn't matter though. I also would like to see a character from Battle Arena Toshinden or Tobal.

[User Name Here]

Yes, a lot of ways, not to mention the stage hazards. I think regular attacks can even reduce their meter, maybe its specials like mines, or stage pickups like hades spear.

If that is the case, then I don't see the big deal with not having a health bar. This system would be like a tug of war system in a way.

I think this would allow for more dynamic fights since people would be more willing to take risk. If you get hit, just pick up your "health" orbs that are on the floor before someone else does. Which is assuming you can pick up whatever is knocked out of you.

[monocromo]

An uneducated point of view.

This is how I picture the "only supers KO" (in line with some of KevinCow comments). You deal damage to your adversaries trying to build your super meter. Instead of being beaten and dead, you should know that when you suffer damage you are helping the other person to get a "kill ticket". In 1 vs 1 if someone punchs you (enough to kill you in another game) instead of you being dead, you'd have a chance to overcome that by evading the super. Or he lands it and you are dead.

In a free for all match you can be a defensive player, receive zero damage and get killed by someone who built his meter beating another player. Its like "you build your super however you want and chose who to kill". In SSB you can damage a player enough only to have someone come and give him the final blow. Here you can die by damage received by another player and you can also kill someone giving 1/3 of the damage nedeed to score a kill to every player.

Here is where I get that "resource managment" part that a lot of people are talking about. You are going to need to be careful of the super status of your adversaries all the time and act acording to that. For example, Parapa level 3 super kills everyone and on top of that he has a move to produce AP orbs. So, if you let him get to lvl 3 super you are basically letting yourself die. Its impossible to lower his health, but you can lower his super meter (by items or moves) and you should (also, I think in one video someone said that using only lvl 2 and 1 supers with Parapa was more efficient and granted he a win). You are going to need to engage on the people who are building their meters fast to prevent an adverse result.

(sorry for the crappy english)

[SolidSnakex]

From my understanding after watching all the gameplay clips, your character attacks build up your special and don't directly affect the other player where as using items does not build up your special but instead drains the targets special which is seem visually as the player dropping a bunch of orbs which can then be recollected to fill your own special.

Sly also has the ability to steal AP orbs when he goes into his stealth mode. I think that he sounds like the most interesting character so far. It seems like he could be a monster if you really learn how to take advantage of all of his abilities.