[Gravijah]

I really don't understand this KS stuff. Why would you give money to a person or a group of people to make something, only for them to turn around and charge you to buy said product?

in general, when you pledge a certain amount (usually cheaper than what the actual product would cost) you get the product, too. plus other random bonus things depending on how much you pledge.

[Seraphis Cain]

I really don't understand this KS stuff. Why would you give money to a person or a group of people to make something, only for them to turn around and charge you to buy said product?

That much is obvious.

[sp3000]

i think someone with as much power as eli hodapp should be called out for his actions.

He's not a politician. He has no power unless you give it to him by giving him attention. Which is exactly what this thread is doing

[El Sloth]

That, and the reward thing is (usually) wrong. Granted, that was how the lower levels of the CoH2 Kickstarter worked, but the higher levels of that, and the basic levels of MOST every other notable Kickstarter game was "give $10/15+, get the game on completion", which may not be as good as investing in something hoping for a positive return on your money, but then if that's the kind of business you want it'd be several thousand or million, not a hundred or less. I find it strange how much venom this Kickstarter got too. The other game ones seemed to be largely without incident save for the CoH2 one, and almost all critiques of it were level headed, not throwing around "shitstarter" and crap.

This is a good point to bring up. The positive return people are hoping for is, hopefully, a fun couple of hours with a sweet looking game. Also, as far as I can tell for the video game Kickstarters, most people pledging money give just enough to get the games once they're actually done being made which makes them seem more like pre-orders.

Yes, but one version makes it sound like a person is a rugged individualist and true entrepreneur. The other version makes it sound like a person is a con man, communist, and probably a cow rapist.

I always knew Payton took advantage of cows.

[Felix Lighter]

I really don't understand this KS stuff. Why would you give money to a person or a group of people to make something, only for them to turn around and charge you to buy said product?

You get the game with your contribution in all cases that I've seen.

[Rez]

I really don't understand this KS stuff. Why would you give money to a person or a group of people to make something, only for them to turn around and charge you to buy said product?

Any campaign with a lick of sense offers the game upon release to backers who donate a reasonable amount.

[gotee12]

I really don't understand this KS stuff. Why would you give money to a person or a group of people to make something, only for them to turn around and charge you to buy said product?

That's not quite how it works. Most kick starters have a pledge amount (anywhere from $10-20 usually) that includes a copy of said game.

[Eusis]

in general, when you pledge a certain amount (usually cheaper than what the actual product would cost) you get the product, too. plus other random bonus things depending on how much you pledge.

This, and it's also likely a large part of why the Class of Heroes 2 Kickstarter failed, you could only get the game with a $59 pledge. For a PSP UMD game this late into the cycle and to a game that wasn't particularly cared about that's a pretty tough sell, whereas the full game at $15 or $20, maybe even $30 would've had more "Well if you say it's that much better" pledges.

[Mejilan]

Fuck, you're not supposed to feed the trolls.
Just read a few of his reviews and you'll find the fanboy with the agenda.
Guy's a complete tool, and was long before his insane hatred for KS, of all things.

[GoingGreen]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

[NervousXtian]

Is the OP trying to suggest that TouchArcade due is causing the Kickstarter for this to falter?

Really?.. nah.. but honestly.. sometimes I question why some of these projects are kickstarters to begin with. This is one of those I question.

The DoubleFine one, the Wasteland one.. yeah.. that's cool.. this though? Just make it and profit when you sell it.

[onlyindreams]

Yep. Toucharcade is awful.

[Alextended]

I don't care about TA or Repulique (at this point, I may end up loving it after/if it's developed) but that guy, going by the quotes here and in the other thread, appears to be a childish egotistical tool, going to such lengths to misrepresent whoever he happens to dislike or feel threatened by, without even knowing anything about them, be it Republique's developers, Kickstarter as a whole or even NeoGAF. He should just focus on bringing his readers the relevant news they visit for, which happen to include Republique (without necessarily urging them to help fund it, that is up to the individual) considering it's an actual under development game iOS owners can look forward to having in the future if it works out (with or without Kickstarter, they're clearly working on something as they've shown parts of it, not just big talk and nothing else) like many others they probably show off there. Abusing the power gained by being part of a popular (?) site and spreading lies and bullshit through that is just beyond sad and pathetic.

Is the OP trying to suggest that TouchArcade due is causing the Kickstarter for this to falter? Really?

Nope, the OP is not trying to suggest that. Really.

Lol @ anyone defending that attitude and/or taking those opinions of Kickstarter to heart without knowing anything about it.

And that's all the thought I'll be giving this. Off to play games.

[Jackl]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

If you want to fund games for a profit buy EA stock.

[Gravijah]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

there are tiers. here, a random kickstarter page:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2

check out the tiers on the side.

[Emitan]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

Then you don't get the product. It's basically a pre-order than funds the game.

[gotee12]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

You really ought to visit KS...

[FrontalMonk]

You know, I used to be a pretty big fan of touch arcade, largely because it was the only site I knew of that had exclusively mobile gaming news, and it's neat to find stuff on there because finding anything on iOS yourself is the pits.

Now? I have a lot of vulgar words to describe how I feel about hodapp, but I won't say any of them here. All I'll say is that I refuse to give him hits and I can/will tell any/all of my friends that would go to that site to not do that thing.

Personally I hadn't planned to kickstart Republique, and I still won't. But just because I don't want what the dev is selling doesn't mean I'm going to shit on it. This is just seriously bad form, completely unprofessional, and I don't really understand why it even happened in the first place. Of all the places you can meltdown, WHY DO IT ON TWITTER. Haven't enough people's livelihoods been torn to shreds by a few errant tweets? Why would you watch that happen to countless celebrities and countless other idiots (Paul Christoforo comes to mind) and say "You know what? I think I want to do that thing. Let me go melt down in front of the entire known world. That's a GREAT idea." Who DOES that? Don't put people on blast unless you want the very real risk of alienating your fanbase.

[Alex]

I really don't understand this KS stuff. Why would you give money to a person or a group of people to make something, only for them to turn around and charge you to buy said product?

Because that's not how it works. Depending on the project and donation tier, you buy the game and other goodies associated with it as a "reward"

It's basically a glorified prepurchase system to get the ball rolling on a games development. It'll be curious to see if all of the more darling projects transpire smoothly.

And yes, touch arcade is fairly lousy, unless you need world class coverage of flash game ports and whatever the fuck dark meadow did this week.

[Aesthet1c]

What a dickwad. If he didn't want to cover Republique on his site, then that's cool, but to actively try to bring it down because he doesn't like the idea of Kicksarter? Such an asshole thing to do.

Guess I'm done checking out Touch Arcade, I'll advise my iOS friends to do the same.

[Eusis]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

It's usually viewed as a pre-order in advance, and usually it takes just $15 to get the game. The most you could expect on a return like that I think is... what, $15? If I want to invest with the intent to earn money back I'd aim much, much higher. That, and frequently they're for the kinds of games we just don't see much of anymore, Double Fine seemingly hasn't been able to get a Graphic Adventure made otherwise, while Wasteland and Shadowrun are both for classically styled PC RPGs that's rapidly faded away during the last decade. For many of us it's pledging a pittance to see the kind of game we REALLY want made again.

As for giving this attention: didn't the OP say someone from Touch Arcade stirred stuff up in the Republique thread? To me this seems like you ARE trying to ignore a guy yelling behind you, only for that guy to get fed up you're not paying attention and kicking you. Most people would probably want to immediately turn around and punch the prick in the face.

[El Sloth]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

It sounds like you haven't actually checked the site out. Why not look at some of the video game Kickstarter pages and see what they're all about (reward tiers, how pledging works, etc.)

And no, you don't get a share of the profits.

[mclem]

Dude comes across like a jackass but I do think some more skepticism about this kickstarter trend is a good thing.

Healthy skepticism is, er, healthy. People *should* go into any given Kickstarter with a critical mind about how likely the project is to make it to completion. I do agree that the recent trend may have led to people making bids without making those critical assessments.

...but, that said, what he's saying is going way beyond healthy skepticism and into the realm of prejudice with a hint of zealotry. That's poisonous to any reasonable assessment of a project's merits and weaknesses, and is irresponsible behaviour for a news site.

[Zefah]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

Do you make baseless speculation about everything before judging it? You could have learned about Kickstarter in the time it took you to write up your posts. I guess you'd rather just stay ignorant?

[Brannon]

Dude seems to be a tad bit buttfrustrated[/4chan]

[GrizzNKev]

Curious if Reddit's picked up on this yet. Someone making an ass out of themselves on Twitter isn't truly funny until it goes viral and meme status.

I think you should go.

[Zia]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

... what in the world?

[dkeane]

What a dickwad. If he didn't want to cover Republique on his site, then that's cool, but to actively try to bring it down because he doesn't like the idea of Kicksarter? Such an asshole thing to do. Guess I'm done checking out Touch Arcade, I'll advise my iOS friends to do the same.

Just participate in the IOS game thread. You'll get all you need out of it.

[NervousXtian]

Healthy skepticism is, er, healthy. People *should* go into any given Kickstarter with a critical mind about how likely the project is to make it to completion. I do agree that the recent trend may have led to people making bids without making those critical assessments. ...but, that said, what he's saying is going way beyond healthy skepticism and into the realm of prejudice with a hint of zealotry. That's poisonous to any reasonable assessment of a project's merits and weaknesses, and is irresponsible behaviour for a news site.

Gaming news site, hardly the New York Times.

There's not really some big ethical standard that Touch Arcade really needs to adhere too.

[Emitan]

... what in the world?

Every time I pre-order a game I get company stock as a pre-order bonus. Don't you?

[HoosTrax]

I think you should go.

I neither read nor have an account on Reddit. The threading / interface is horrific to look at. I learn about Reddit happenings secondhand from GAF and other sites.

Edit: I'm going to miss that "junior" status...sigh

[Kai Dracon]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

In addition to what everyone else has clarified, the general point of it (to date) is a way to get products made that wouldn't get made otherwise.

Like a sequel to Wasteland, a proper Shadowrun RPG, or a quasi-indie game that is larger in scope than 2 guys with ramen can afford to make, but still would get ignored by Big Pub.

For the moment Kickstarter, in the context of the game industry, is looking like a way for people to participate in a grass-roots end run around the limitations (and pig headedness) of big publishing.

[Alucrid]

Do you LOVE Angry Birds? You'll like Touch Arcade.

A gaming website dedicated to iOS game coverage.

Thanks.

I really don't understand this KS stuff. Why would you give money to a person or a group of people to make something, only for them to turn around and charge you to buy said product?

Clearly you don't.

Is the OP trying to suggest that TouchArcade due is causing the Kickstarter for this to falter? Really?.. nah.. but honestly.. sometimes I question why some of these projects are kickstarters to begin with. This is one of those I question. The DoubleFine one, the Wasteland one.. yeah.. that's cool.. this though? Just make it and profit when you sell it.

Your tag is fitting. Hodapp didn't cause the kickstarter to fail, but he apparently reveled in its failing taking every change he could get to shit on it, for some reason. Why? That's a good question.

[bob page]

Hodapp used to be pretty cool... not sure what the hell happened to him though. For some reason, he's acting like some entitled, self-glorified asshole as of late.

[Reuenthal]

[GoingGreen]

Hey I admit I'm clueless on KS. Don't have to make fun.

[GrizzNKev]

I neither read nor have an account on Reddit. The threading / interface is horrific to look at. I learn about Reddit happenings secondhand from GAF and other sites. Edit: I'm going to miss that "junior" status...sigh

I meant stop posting. Unless you were joking, in which case, that's fine. Reddit is by far the most horrible online community in existence. They ruin everything they touch, and are the death of every joke.

[Emitan]

I meant stop posting. Unless you were joking, in which case, that's fine. Reddit is by far the most horrible online community in existence.

Some of the communities are actually really cool. It's just that they consist of like 15 people :/
(Hasn't logged into Reddit in, like, 8 months)

[kylej]

A guy who runs an Apple App site complaining about the "millennial generation"?

Really?

[Vamphuntr]

Every time I pre-order a game I get company stock as a pre-order bonus. Don't you?

I think it's a fair point if you take the nature of some projects into account. Personally I think It's not exactly the same as preordering a game if the product can't exist without your contribution. Take Republique for instance, according to their KS page a private investor will fund half the game (500k). That investor will get a share of profits for sure while the rest who contributed to the other 500k only get the game and the rewards.

Depending on the projects, you might me preordering if the game is already far along or you might be "donating" to the cause. It's that "donating" part that some people have issues with since in some cases it appears like you are funding the game itself and this is starting to get fairly close to investing (especially with those 10k tiers).

But yeah we really can't discuss this topic at all on GAF. Most people will quote your thing and reply with some dumb insult or a sarcastic reply.

[dkeane]

Hey I admit I'm clueless on KS. Don't have to make fun.

Nothing wrong with that. But go check out kick starter and educate yourself. It's an interesting community.

[mclem]

Gaming news site, hardly the New York Times. There's not really some big ethical standard that Touch Arcade really needs to adhere too.

Nope, I'm not going to accept the double-standard here. Sure, they're on different scales of import, but the both share a fundamental responsibility to their readership; it's what their credibility is founded on - and having a bizarre prejudice *heavily* affects their ability to achieve that responsibility.

[Alucrid]

I think it's a fair point if you take the nature of some projects into account. Personally I think It's not exactly the same as preordering a game if the product can't exist without your contribution. Take Republique for instance, according to their KS page a private investor will fund half the game (500k). That investor will get a share of profits for sure while the rest who contributed to the other 500k only get the game and the rewards. Depending on the projects, you might me preordering if the game is already far along or you might be "donating" to the cause. It's that "donating" part that some people have issues with since in some cases it appears like you are funding the game itself and this is starting to get fairly close to investing (especially with those 10k tiers). But yeah we really can't discuss this topic at all on GAF. Most people will quote your thing and reply with some dumb insult or a sarcastic reply.

I imagine that for a donation of $15 getting a game I want to play is good enough and the idea of making 'profits' from your donation doesn't enter the equation. Likewise, if you're donating $10,000, the idea of 'profiting' probably doesn't come to mind either, since, you know, you're dropping 10k.

Also, transparency is key. Most of the good projects have been extremely clear as to where they are and where they hope to be. It's a donation because they give you all the necessary facts on the game beforehand.

[ZealousD]

The funniest part is the guy on Twitter that thinks that people on NeoGAF don't buy games. Everyone, prepare to show off your backlogs!

Yeah, anybody who knows anything about NeoGAF knows that we buy a lot of games.

It's playing them where we start to have problems.

[NervousXtian]

Your tag is fitting. Hodapp didn't cause the kickstarter to fail, but he apparently reveled in its failing taking every change he could get to shit on it, for some reason. Why? That's a good question.

Well, he's not the only one skeptical of Kickstarter right now.

I mean when you read this:

Without fail, every company we’ve shown our game to has expressed sincere excitement about its creative ambitions. In unison they proclaim: “Yes! This is exactly the kind of game I want on my iPhone and iPad!” But when it comes down to dollars and cents, the most consistent feedback we get is: “You have to prove that there’s a market out there for this. And don’t use Infinity Blade as an example unless you can guarantee your game will also be featured in an Apple national TV spot.”

You kind of wonder, why can't they privately fund. What does this really cost to develop. What is the 500k really going to produce and how much of the game is already "done".

I'm skeptical by nature, and this particular Kickstarter made me give pause in general.

Is the point of KS games to create games that'd never be funded otherwise, or is it just another revenue stream? Some seem like the first, some seem the second.

[Lyphen]

This whole thing is pretty petty.

[outunderthestars]

Time to remove Touch Arcade from my bookmarks list.

[NervousXtian]

This whole thing is pretty petty.

Time to remove Touch Arcade from my bookmarks list.

Yup.

[jooey]

This whole thing is pretty petty.

But I love dinner theatre!

[Alucrid]

Well, he's not the only one skeptical of Kickstarter right now. I mean when you read this: You kind of wonder, why can't they privately fund. What does this really cost to develop. What is the 500k really going to produce and how much of the game is already "done". I skeptical by nature, and this particular Kickstarter made me give pause in general. Is the point of KS games to create games that'd never be funded otherwise, or is it just another revenue stream? Some seem like the first, some seem the second.

They probably wouldn't be funded period. Look at the Wasteland 2 kickstarter. Almost 3 million raised. They had pitched this to places but it never worked out because they game they wanted to make wasn't the kind of game those people were willing to give money to. Not because it was a bad idea to start with, but because it wasn't what they saw as making money.

It's okay to be skeptical of kickstarter projects, since there are quite a few of them that are complete shit, however when you have major names behind them being very transparent in their intent, I think it's a safe bet.

Still, Hodapp is critical about Kickstart, sure, but what does that criticism have to do with shitting on this project?