[El Sloth]

Yeah, anybody who knows anything about NeoGAF knows that we buy a lot of games. It's playing them where we start to have problems.

I bought The Binding of Isaac months ago and only started the thing up this week!

Steam Sales Syndrome

[Jive Turkey]

A guy who runs an Apple App site complaining about the "millennial generation"? Really?

Yeah I found that odd too.

"You kids today with your Kickstarters and your Facebooks... Back in my day if you wanted to talk to someone you had to ask Siri to call them!"

[charlequin]

Okay so you get the product, but you don't get a share of the profits? If thats the case, everyone should only donate a dollar.

I find it really charming how everyone is suddenly an ROI hardliner (and a backseat investment genius) when Kickstarter comes up. It's cute, like when everyone's dad was suddenly a day trader with an eTrade account and a $500 portfolio in 1998.

[El Sloth]

I find it really charming how everyone is suddenly an ROI hardliner (and a backseat investment genius) when Kickstarter comes up. It's cute, like when everyone's dad was suddenly a day trader with an eTrade account and a $500 portfolio in 1998.

Haha, that was definitely my dad in 1998.

[Veezy]

Is the point of KS games to create games that'd never be funded otherwise, or is it just another revenue stream? Some seem like the first, some seem the second.

It depends on the project. There are multiple examples on the site for each KS project and each project should have a clearly written out explanation of what your donation goes to, where they are at, and their goals with the money.

I remember one project pushed by Penny Arcade where the gentlemen was good at making the brilliant set pieces for table top gaming. He has made pieces before and was planning on going into his own business. However, he needed the funds to purchase the professional lazer cutter and software to get the business off the ground. So your donation was actually buying a future product at a discount and he was going to use the cash to get the lazer. Everybody wins.

Just look around the site. It's a fantastic was to generate cash for something that's a bit too niche for a bank or publisher to give you the funds for.

EDIT: NeoGAF is a cesspool of people who hate games, are unemployed, generally uneducated, and worst of all ENTITLED. We really are disgusting, I'm glad we finally know.

Excuse me, I need to listen to Crawling on loop when I play emulated sonic and drink Game Fuel Mountain Dew and eat Cheetos.

[dream]

I don't think there's much I can say about TouchArcade that other people haven't already mentioned. I'm just completely at a loss, though, when trying to figure out what Hodapp's agenda is. I can understand someone taking a stance against Kickstarter and its ilk on principle but this seems like several steps over the wacky line.

[Shig]

A bunch of serious console/PC gamers' spending habits are being assessed as miserly by groups in a market that deals mostly in free/99-cent games? What?

Thanks for the thread, didn't know they'd added a PC option. Will contribute, Payton's a good guy.

[NervousXtian]

They probably wouldn't be funded period. Look at the Wasteland 2 kickstarter. Almost 3 million raised. They had pitched this to places but it never worked out because they game they wanted to make wasn't the kind of game those people were willing to give money to. Not because it was a bad idea to start with, but because it wasn't what they saw as making money. It's okay to be skeptical of kickstarter projects, since there are quite a few of them that are complete shit, however when you have major names behind them being very transparent in their intent, I think it's a safe bet. Still, Hodapp is critical about Kickstart, sure, but what does that criticism have to do with shitting on this project?

I'm skeptical of this particular project.. the Wasteland 2 one.. no.

I understand why the Wasteland 2 would be hard to fun the standard way, it's not a guaranteed money maker. It's risky.

This project though.. not so sure of that.

[piratepwnsninja]

Haha, that was definitely my dad in 1998.

My dad didn't know how to operate a computer.

Anyway, stuff like this really yanks my chain.

[NervousXtian]

It depends on the project. There are multiple examples on the site for each KS project and each project should have a clearly written out explanation of what your donation goes to, where they are at, and their goals with the money. I remember one project pushed by Penny Arcade where the gentlemen was good at making the brilliant set pieces for table top gaming. He has made pieces before and was planning on going into his own business. However, he needed the funds to purchase the professional lazer cutter and software to get the business off the ground. So your donation was actually buying a future product at a discount and he was going to use the cash to get the lazer. Everybody wins. Just look around the site. It's a fantastic was to generate cash for something that's a bit too niche for a bank or publisher to give you the funds for.

I know what it's for, clearly. I'm saying that some seem to be using it for the wrong reasons.

[Jasper Avenue]

Eli Hodapp is an idiot. Just take a look at his Twitter stream and you'll see what I mean. Rape jokes, entitlement, whining - the list goes on.

[piratepwnsninja]

I'm skeptical of this particular project.. the Wasteland 2 one.. no. I understand why the Wasteland 2 would be hard to fun the standard way, it's not a guaranteed money maker. It's risky. This project though.. not so sure of that.

The question is, what is there to be skeptical about? Payton is a known developer and has known developers working for him. I guess the price tag on it could be throwing some people off, but NEWSFLASH, big production games aren't cheap to make and this has the look of a big production, regardless of platform.

[El Sloth]

I don't think there's much I can say about TouchArcade that other people haven't already mentioned. I'm just completely at a loss, though, when trying to figure out what Hodapp's agenda is. I can understand someone taking a stance against Kickstarter and its ilk on principle but this seems like several steps over the wacky line.

Yeah, I don't think anyone is saying the site should reverse their stance on Kickstarter games. Its just the way this fellow has gone about it that is in very poor form.

[Astrosanity]

I have no idea what this game is nor who any of these people are but based off those few tweets if somebody links me I'll get around to putting a few dollars into the kickstarter

[piratepwnsninja]

I have no idea what this game is nor who any of these people are but based off those few tweets if somebody links me I'll get around to putting a few dollars into the kickstarter

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ogan?ref=users

[Alucrid]

I know what it's for, clearly. I'm saying that some seem to be using it for the wrong reasons.

We estimate that République will cost north of $1 million to complete. After months of meetings and due diligence, we believe that we can raise the necessary additional funds to complete République from potential outside investors, but there is some risk that our efforts will be unsuccessful. Before we enter into any financial agreements, we want to prove through Kickstarter that there is a market for a serious AAA mobile game. While we may eventually have to share future profits from the game in order to finance development costs, we have no intention of sacrificing quality, creative control or IP ownership. In the very happy event that we exceed our $500,000 Kickstarter goal, this will grant us more financial freedom and will allow us to build an even better game. We will also consider the idea of developing République for other platforms, however this is not a decision we take lightly, as we firmly believe in developing our games to the strengths of each platform.

So what you're 'donating' for is a few things

1) Better chance for them to receive additional funding from outside investors
2) Ensuring that they retain a more freedom to make the game they want to make. While this may not sound like much, if you know who the developers are then you can get a better sense of what this means and how important this would be to you.
3) You still get the game at the end of it.

Now I don't think that they're using kickstart inappropriately or misleadingly, but hey, that's just like my opinion man.

[Veezy]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is saying the site should reverse their stance on Kickstarter games. Its just the way this fellow has gone about it that is in very poor form.

Well, it's a pretty poor stance to begin with.

It's one thing to say "Kickstarter may be a good idea to pool your money towards a few projects, but beware as there's a chance it may be a fruitless endeavor. Do your research first, as you would with any financial decision."

Versus, "Kickstarter is what's wrong with this current generation. Instead of these developers working to get the money themselves, they're begging for it. It's akin to the homeless on the street begging for change. Like the homeless, they should be left to crawl for their next meal or die, not have it handed to them from random peoples generosity. It's disguising, and a prime example of how entitled this sad excuse for a generation feels."

I'm just boggled. Kickstater, quite literally, cannot hurt him personally or professionally so I don't see the rage behind his opinion.

[Tuck]

Honestly, he made a fairly decent point about Kickstarter. But I don't see what he gets so... venomous in subsequent posts. He seems like he REALLY does not want the project to get off the ground, which is too bad because the concept seemed cool. I don't understand why he wants this one project to fail.

[Dreavus]

I really don't understand this KS stuff. Why would you give money to a person or a group of people to make something, only for them to turn around and charge you to buy said product?

Well, it's my understanding that a vast majority of kickstarters promise to give you a copy of whatever it is they're making as a thank you for a reasonable donation. Often times there are more "exclusive" stuff tied to larger donations. It's not simply giving money for nothing, in many cases it works more like a pre-purchase.

[bubnbob]

i think someone with as much power as eli hodapp should be called out for his actions.

... power? power of what.

[El Sloth]

^ I think he meant "influence".

Well, it's a pretty poor stance to begin with. It's one thing to say "Kickstarter may be a good idea to pool your money towards a few projects, but beware as there's a chance it may be a fruitless endeavor. Do your research first, as you would with any financial decision." Versus, "Kickstarter is what's wrong with this current generation. Instead of these developers working to get the money themselves, they're begging for it. It's akin to the homeless on the street begging for change. Like the homeless, they should be left to crawl for their next meal or die, not have it handed to them from random peoples generosity. It's disguising, and a prime example of how entitled this sad excuse for a generation feels." I'm just boggled. Kickstater, quite literally, cannot hurt him personally or professionally so I don't see the rage behind his opinion.

This is what I was sorta trying to say in my previous post in not so many words.

[PedroLumpy]

Hey I admit I'm clueless on KS. Don't have to make fun.

If you make a reasonable effort to try and understand something, people won't make fun of you.

[Astrosanity]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ogan?ref=users

They're now $15 closer to their goal. :)

Surely some guy going on an illogical rant about Kickstarter (I agree it can be and probably already is being abused in some cases, but holy hell is his lemonade stand analogy ridiculous) bringing this project more attention be a good thing in the long run, right?

[dream]

Honestly, he made a fairly decent point about Kickstarter. But I don't see what he gets so... venomous in subsequent posts. He seems like he REALLY does not want the project to get off the ground, which is too bad because the concept seemed cool. I don't understand why he wants this one project to fail.

Right. Has he exhibited this much anger and vitriol towards other Kickstarter projects?

[Nemo]

Jeez. His "when it becomes more than just a concept..." comment killed his whole thing. If you get STFU'd like that you shouldn't continue. Just accept your losses, whatever points he could've had were killed just like that

[iratA]

Hodapp sounds like a teenage boy on a rant. You've had your say mate... time to move on.

[PsychoRaven]

I was reading that thread. I'm not a fan of Kickstarter myself and couldn't care less about the game but the Touch Arcade guy is just a piece of shit. That simple. I don't go into kickstarter threads and shit all over them because I know others support them and I'm cool with that. It's their choice and right to.

However to actively root against them and act like a complete and utter child is just bullshit. Almost makes me want to donate to this kickstarter just to piss the shithead off.

[Neuromancer]

:lol @ 'shitfarter'

This guys hilarious

[Astrosanity]

However to actively root against them and act like a complete and utter child is just bullshit. Almost makes me want to donate to this kickstarter just to piss the shithead off.

That's what I did! I seriously can't believe how angry this guy is getting over Kickstarter.

[outunderthestars]

I was reading that thread. I'm not a fan of Kickstarter myself and couldn't care less about the game but the Touch Arcade guy is just a piece of shit. That simple. I don't go into kickstarter threads and shit all over them because I know others support them and I'm cool with that. It's their choice and right to. However to actively root against them and act like a complete and utter child is just bullshit. Almost makes me want to donate to this kickstarter just to piss the shithead off.

Especially when you run a site that deals with products that are being funded using Kickstarter.

[Kai Dracon]

... power? power of what.

[Darkkn]

Kickstarter is cool for projects that would not exist without it, but i guess i'm just generally skeptical about people and money and wonder how much people are just using KS as a means of getting free money instead of loaning from investors so that they can cut the costs and make more profit.
I mean how hard could it be to get a million bucks from publisher to do a Wasteland game which has a big cult following and give it a try. A million is not a lot to lose if you have a chance of reviving an IP, considering that publishers are putting tens of millions to stuff like X-Com and Syndicate.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

That's okay.

TouchArcade can just play with itself.

The funniest part is the guy on Twitter that thinks that people on NeoGAF don't buy games. Everyone, prepare to show off your backlogs!

He doesn't care.

[dream]

I'm honestly baffled by someone getting the impression that GAFers don't buy games. That's just some incredibly out there shit.

[Dash Kappei]

Uhmmmm. I'll just say this: the TouchArcade dude who's hating on NeoGAF now, not even last week was begging one of our iOS |OT| regulars to ask a mod/admin to get approved since he had been waiting to become a junior for a long time and really wanted to get approved.

So you can even add that to the OP, if you want.
There's proof this is true btw, it's all laid out in the Touch Gaming Thread 4.

Edit: here:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=37205770

POSTED on April 24th

(DISCLAIMER: wiiflare is a good sport and a nice member, he just wanted to help out, it's not like he knew this whole deal)

the editor of Toucharcade.com, @hodapp would like to come on NeoGAF his nick is io_burn, anyone mod/admin i can contact to speed up his activation?

he has been in queue for some months i think

[Kai Dracon]

Kickstarter is cool for projects that would not exist without it, but i guess i'm just generally skeptical about people and money and wonder how much people are just using KS as a means of getting free money instead of loaning from investors so that they can cut the costs and make more profit. I mean how hard could it be to get a million bucks from publisher to do a Wasteland game which has a big cult following and give it a try. A million is not a lot to lose if you have a chance of reviving an IP, considering that publishers are putting tens of millions to stuff like X-Com and Syndicate.

Publishers don't hand out a few million to every worthy idea, plus at least one project there, X-Com, seems to have been mired in publisher and developer politics for years. Dev hell. Or big publishers refuse to give people want they want to see with IPs... see the trials and tribulations of Shadowrun.

There's definitely a big attraction to the notion that authentically talented game devs can go directly "to the people" and crowdsource the development of the niche and mid-range games that the audience wants to see.

Another point I've seen raised is that if Kickstarter turns into a significant force for this, it could grab the attention of publishers and remind them that there is, in fact, a market for the mid-range product.

[chickdigger802]

I'm honestly baffled by someone getting the impression that GAFers don't buy games. That's just some incredibly out there shit.

Must be confusing neogaf with gafgold.

[vferrel]

It's sad to see that the game probably will not be funded. It seemed promising. The only problem is I don't like playing games on my iPhone very often, so I wasn't too interested in it until they announced the PC and Mac versions.

This guy seems pretty lame though. Doesn't surprise me since he works at Touch Arcade though.

Also, as someone said earlier, it's stupid to think we don't buy games. We buy too many games, and never play them. That's the problem I see most Gaffers, including myself, having.

[chubigans]

Uhmmmm. I'll just say this: the TouchArcade dude who's hating on NeoGAF now, not even last week was begging one of our iOS |OT| regulars to ask a mod/admin to get approved since he had been waiting to become a junior for a long time and really wanted to get approved. So you can even add that to the OP, if you want. There's proof this is true btw, it's all laid out in the Touch Gaming Thread 4.

And the story takes another turn for the hilarious.

Jeez, what is that guy's problem.

[vferrel]

Uhmmmm. I'll just say this: the TouchArcade dude who's hating on NeoGAF now, not even last week was begging one of our iOS |OT| regulars to ask a mod/admin to get approved since he had been waiting to become a junior for a long time and really wanted to get approved. So you can even add that to the OP, if you want. There's proof this is true btw, it's all laid out in the Touch Gaming Thread 4.

I was just about to make a joke on how he probably hates GAF because his account hasn't been approved, but wow. What a joke.

[HoosTrax]

I was just about to make a joke on how he probably hates GAF because his account hasn't been approved, but wow. What a joke.

So he's bitter that he isn't important enough to get special treatment / fast tracked through approval...

[shagg_187]

Uhmmmm. I'll just say this: the TouchArcade dude who's hating on NeoGAF now, not even last week was begging one of our iOS |OT| regulars to ask a mod/admin to get approved since he had been waiting to become a junior for a long time and really wanted to get approved. So you can even add that to the OP, if you want. There's proof this is true btw, it's all laid out in the Touch Gaming Thread 4. Edit: here: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=37205770 POSTED on April 24th (DISCLAIMER: wiiflare is a good sport and a nice member, he just wanted to help out, it's not like he knew this whole deal)

So he is just pissed that his account is not approved? lol!

[vferrel]

So he's bitter that he isn't important enough to get special treatment / fast tracked through approval...

But he's the editor in chief of the biggest website covering the future of video games. Who else is more important than him? /sarcasm

[Mashing]

I guess that stupid fuck missed the massive iOS gaming thread?

[Mxrz]

Has he started claiming to be the victim yet? The cycle can't really proceed until he starts talking about how he's getting internet bullied.

[El Sloth]

No need to get so vitrolic, guys.

[railGUN]

Touch Arcade bookmark deleted.

[kuroshiki]

Well, I don't really care how people spend their money. If a person is desperate enough to play the game they want to play, then yeah, go ahead and do advanced payment.

But does iOS game really cost a half million dollars to make? That part I quite don't get.

[Dash Kappei]

I guess that stupid fuck missed the massive iOS gaming thread?

I blame myself for keeping the tradition of naming it iPhone iPad iPod Touch Gaming Thread.
I guess that is too difficult to catch for him. Knowing TA, he'd probably rate our thread only 4.5 out of 5 stars.

[JJD]

Really tempted to back Republique now...