[SteeloDMZ]

http://elihodapp.com/

Just read some of the crap this guy has posted on his twitter. Oh man.

I'm gonna back up Payton and Republique on this one. Just saw the video and it looks like a very cool concept.

[reptilescorpio]

There was a recent article on Gamasutra about an iOS game (Star Command) that was successfully funded for like $25,000 and the people behind it spend most of their money on crap, leaving very little left to actually make the game. (I think the game is still being made, but probably not as good as it would have been)

First thing I read brings up a pretty big warning sign

SPECIAL NOTE: BACKING ON ANY LEVEL DOES NOT INCLUDE A COPY OF THE GAME. THERE IS A FAQ ITEM AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST EXPLAINING THE REASONING!

I wouldn't be backing much money into a project like that, not to mention there are ZERO recognizable names involved in the project. I am only going to put forward my money for projects by people with a proven track record of making games that I will like.

I like Payton and his past work, Republic sounds like a great idea and certainly nothing like other games I have played recently. Now that they have a PC version I might jump in for the basic back as the overseer gameplay sounds really enjoyable.

[StevePharma]

NeoGAF haz no GAEMS!!!!


It's sad to see that some indecent editor speaks out like this. I'm guessing he loves the attention he's getting now.

I hope your mom is proud of you.

Also really classy to shit on a forum you wanted to be a part of.

[Dacvak]

But how big are the chances that it you are a small unheard of developer you get the funds you want? Unless you spend a lot of time to make your project believable it seems like it would be very difficult.

Depends on whether or not an editor-in-chief decides to publicly make an ass out of himself by bashing your indie project. =P

But seriously, you're probably right. But I could still see it happening to varying degrees.

[micah]

It all makes sense now, don't worry guys it was all a bad drug-fueled dream/nightmare?

http://hodapp.me/

[vferrel]

I've always found it weird how people get this weird sense of accomplishment when there is a NeoGAF thread about them. There was someone else recently who got the same way too.

[Pyccko]

I've always found it weird how people get this weird sense of accomplishment when there is a NeoGAF thread about them. There was someone else recently who got the same way too.

Yeah, Phil Fish, I think.

[charlequin]

Well, bear in mind, there is always the possibility that the game will never actually even get made. There was a recent article on Gamasutra about an iOS game (Star Command) that was successfully funded for like $25,000 and the people behind it spend most of their money on crap, leaving very little left to actually make the game. (I think the game is still being made, but probably not as good as it would have been)

I don't think this is an entirely fair reading of the article (which you can find here.) The big expense that cut into their total was pledge rewards, which speaks to some mistakes on their part setting up the KS (specifically, printing posters and giving away physical items at the $25 level), but otherwise their expenses were pretty reasonable (paying for the game's soundtrack, buying hardware for the developers, etc.) and fit with the intended expenditures they described in the Kickstarter.

The game was shown off at PAX East, BTW, and seems to be on track for a summer release.

[strem]

Ohhhhhhhh video games

[hiro4]

Depends on whether or not an editor-in-chief decides to publicly make an ass out of himself by bashing your indie project. =P But seriously, you're probably right. But I could still see it happening to varying degrees.

Touché! :D
While failure is always an option and that there is always a risk with any kick starter I agree the chances of a failed game is even bigger due to to size and scope needed to build a game.

But that means developers just have to work harder and give better incentives to convince people. I still believe in kick starter even if it is still hard for a small unknown developer to get funding. But there are ways.

Still we shouldn't let one bad kick starter game ruin it for everyone else. If I recall there was a thread that contained more failed kick starters and most of them weren't games.

[BooJoh]

I'm wary of Kickstarter projects in general, but everyone should be, because you're operating on faith when you back a project. That said, I'm not against Kickstarter at all. Heck, my favorite band is making a comeback after 8 years because of Kickstarter.

This guy didn't have any obligation to give any attention to Republique, but the way he went about it he inadvertently gave the game more attention, and managed to make himself look pretty immature to boot.

Also I'm always amused at the blanket statements people make toward NeoGAF. As if we're not just a normal community full of infighting and varying opinions like any other online community.

[Cookie18]

Wow, what an asshole. I wanted Republique and, more specifically, Ryan Payton to succeed with this before but now I want them to just to see this baby whine.

[AShep]

Then you don't get the product. It's basically a pre-order than funds the game.

Which is fucking stupid when you have absolutely no indication of the game's quality. Unless you want to extrapolate something from the fact that they couldn't get the game funded any other way...

[charlequin]

First thing I read brings up a pretty big warning sign

This is actually a big problem for iOS games in particular on Kickstarter. With PC titles, you can always provide your own direct download if necessary, or ideally get your game on Steam. if you do, not only can you generate as many codes as you want (to give the game to all your backers), but you'll also tap into all the marketing that comes with it -- the Steam sales, the word-of-mouth effect of people seeing their friends launching your game, etc.

As an iOS developer, you can't generate arbitrary quantities of free codes and you can't sideload apps (which means you can't, or at least can't easily, promise to give a copy to every backer over a certain threshold) and your only real marketing vehicle on the App Store once you launch is purely through sales-driven placement -- towards which your promo codes won't count -- which means selling your units upfront has a real cost to future success that isn't present the same way on other platforms.

I definitely agree it's pretty suboptimal, but it's driven by a real difficulty of the iOS platform compared to PC or even Android.

[Pureauthor]

Which is fucking stupid when you have absolutely no indication of the game's quality. Unless you want to extrapolate something from the fact that they couldn't get the game funded any other way...

I'm pretty sure you have a pretty good indicator of the game's quality when, say, DoubleFine is the one making the proposal.

[john tv]

Just doubled my pledge on account of this.

[enzo_gt]

Hmm. I used to check TouchArcade occasionally. But now that I know it's run by a douche, hypocritical elitist and someone who appears to be very headstrong and ignorant, I don't think so.

What a PR disaster. No sympathy since he's continued this crusade. Seriously, it's like having that one friend who is really passionate about the smallest detail about one irrelevant thing and won't shut up about it or get over it. You can criticize Kickstarter, I'm not a fan of the model myself, but don't be a douche about it. Enjoy your shitstorm, if you ever pull your head out of your ass long enough to realize it's going on.

[AShep]

I'm pretty sure you have a pretty good indicator of the game's quality when, say, DoubleFine is the one making the proposal.

So let them get it funded in the traditional way. Essentially you're giving them money that would otherwise be earning you interest or paying for something else now. You're funding someone else's investment from which they'll make a return. Its a sucker's game.

For clarification I'm not endorsing this touch arcade pork chop.

[polyh3dron]

I think sethdub grew up and is now hodapp. That's my theory

[Emitan]

So let them get it funded in the traditional way. Essentially you're giving them money that would otherwise be earning you interest or paying for something else now. You're funding someone else's investment from which they'll make a return. Its a sucker's game. For clarification I'm not endorsing this touch arcade pork chop.

If these games were being funded in the traditional way they wouldn't exist. Do you expect a return when you buy a game from a store? No. You're just buying a game in advance which also happens to fund development.

[hiro4]

So let them get it funded in the traditional way. Essentially you're giving them money that would otherwise be earning you interest or paying for something else now. You're funding someone else's investment from which they'll make a return. Its a sucker's game.

They tried it the traditional way. They got shut down because it wouldn't be profitable. Apparently 3.something million dollars and several thousand backers proved the publishers wrong.

Also that is how donations work. You give money you can spare to help other people. And in this case you can also get a free game out of it you want to play. It is actually a win - win situation.

[reptilescorpio]

As an iOS developer, you can't generate arbitrary quantities of free codes and you can't sideload apps (which means you can't, or at least can't easily, promise to give a copy to every backer over a certain threshold) and your only real marketing vehicle on the App Store once you launch is purely through sales-driven placement -- towards which your promo codes won't count -- which means selling your units upfront has a real cost to future success that isn't present the same way on other platforms.

My phone is an Android so I had no idea the situation with iOS gaming. I expected they could just offer a download on their website and people could drag/drop onto their phone. Certainly does make the Kickstarter project a lot more complicated when you have to worry about a 3rd party after the project is funded, developed and then polished to release. I couldn't imagine the heartbreak if it wasn't even approved for release on iOS.

[Pureauthor]

So let them get it funded in the traditional way. Essentially you're giving them money that would otherwise be earning you interest or paying for something else now. You're funding someone else's investment from which they'll make a return. Its a sucker's game. For clarification I'm not endorsing this touch arcade pork chop.

On the consumer side of things, how is it fundamentally any different from preordering a game? (Aside from the fact that with a Kickstarter one can often get the game for cheaper than retail.)

Also, I'm pretty sure the ten to twenty bucks involved is not going to make me bank in interest whether I give it to the dev during the Kickstarter or after the game comes out.

[thetrin]

Just doubled my pledge on account of this.

I doubled my pledge from $50 to $100 back when I found out the circumstances behind the founding of Camouflaj. I'm a sucker for an entrepreneurial story.

I think it's awesome what Ryan and the gang are doing. They're really risking a lot, and I don't think many people realize how ballsy this move is for them. Having recently started a company myself, I can't help but commiserate.

My phone is an Android so I had no idea the situation with iOS gaming. I expected they could just offer a download on their website and people could drag/drop onto their phone.

I'm sure you know as well as any other person that uses a computer that Apple's whole philosophy is the walled garden. That's simply just not an option if you wish to play ball with them.

[remnant]

So let them get it funded in the traditional way. Essentially you're giving them money that would otherwise be earning you interest or paying for something else now. You're funding someone else's investment from which they'll make a return. Its a sucker's game.

This is the traditional way. Instead of relying solely on savings or venture capital from one or 2 big publishers, the capital is spread around. This is just our industry trying different things, and evolving as a result

[thetrin]

So let them get it funded in the traditional way. Essentially you're giving them money that would otherwise be earning you interest or paying for something else now. You're funding someone else's investment from which they'll make a return. Its a sucker's game. For clarification I'm not endorsing this touch arcade pork chop.

What is more traditional than patronage? I submit to you that that is THE MOST traditional way to fund a creative pursuit.

It's only a sucker's game if you only give others money solely to make something back in return. That is antithetical to patronage. The whole concept is to fund it because you believe they deserve to be able to make it. Of course, because being altruistic and charitable is so god damn painful for people these days, there's a tiered gift system, so you feel like you get something back.

[Barkley's Justice]

I don't know. How are more ways to get games made other than the traditional developer/publisher dicohtomy bad? Some people really want this games shit to be their little personal bitch.

[cr_blah_blah]

So let them get it funded in the traditional way. Essentially you're giving them money that would otherwise be earning you interest or paying for something else now. You're funding someone else's investment from which they'll make a return. Its a sucker's game. For clarification I'm not endorsing this touch arcade pork chop.

Kickstart is for projects that will probably have no other way of being possible or existing. It'd be ridiculous to think almost any of these major projects (Wasteland, Shadowrun, Double Fine adventure game) could get funded in traditional (publisher) ways. This is a way for them to become reality for people wanting exactly and willing to fund it for a copy of the game or whatever tier they pay for.

[Ignis Fatuus]

[thetrin]

I don't know. How are more ways to get games made other than the traditional developer/publisher dicohtomy bad? Some people really want this games shit to be their little personal bitch.

Because people have been conditioned to believe that helping to fund a labor of love needs some sort of pay out, or you're an idiot for doing so.

[Interficium]

Not when they don't bring anything new to the table when it comes to gaming. I swear that shit looks like girl Metal Gear, that's it. Oh, and she stole Ezio's clothes from Assassin's Creed. Oh fuck her name is Hope too! So original! Well I HOPE this Kickstarter never gets off the ground just because of the unoriginal game it looks to be.

You sound unhinged.

[john tv]

What the hell? :/

[oneils]

If these games were being funded in the traditional way they wouldn't exist. Do you expect a return when you buy a game from a store? No. You're just buying a game in advance which also happens to fund development.

At the very least you would get a refund if the game never gets released, when pre-ordering through a retailer. So, there is risk involved when funding a kick starter project. It seems to be pretty minimal, though, from the amounts I have seen (15$). I doubt people would cry over that( but you never know, this is the Internet after all).

[Pyccko]

Jesus Christ, dude. Every minute a new example of what a silly billy this guy is.

[Emitan]

He doesn't need you if you're not a true believer.

Jesus Christ, dude. Every minute a new example of what a silly billy this guy is.

I am pretty silly.

[cr_blah_blah]

[IMG.]http://sadpanda.us/images/937682-DC00ZIZ.png[/IMG]

It's always weird that when people are called out on being jerks, instead of realizing or showing some kind of remorse, they lash out as even bigger cunts. It doesn't make sense at all. People can't be that stupid.

[Nibel]

Can we create a thread where we can hate those fucking casuals? I hate casuals and their games although I didn't play them since me and others here have no gamez

[thetrin]

At the very least you would get a refund if the game never gets released, when pre-ordering through a retailer. So, there is risk involved when funding a kick starter project. It seems to be pretty minimal, though, from the amounts I have seen (15$). I doubt people would cry over that( but you never know, this is the Internet after all).

What is the risk with kickstarter funding? That the game sucks? That it never gets made? That Brian Fargo and Tim Schafer sensually rub each other down with our hard earned cash?

[polyh3dron]

Just upped my republique pledge from $10 to $50 after that for the intelligentsia edition.

[thetrin]

It's always weird that when people are called out on being jerks, instead of realizing or showing some kind of remorse, they lash out as even bigger cunts. It doesn't make sense at all. People can't be that stupid.

You're following a misconception that those visible in the journalistic field within the gaming industry have any semblance of integrity common to other journalistic fields.

EDIT: Oh boy, a very classy response to my tweet to Hodapp.

[remnant]

Jesus Christ, dude. Every minute a new example of what a silly billy this guy is.

To be fair what is he supposed to say? He has every right to not believe in kickstarter, and he doesn't have to grovel to people to appease them.

What is the risk with kickstarter funding? That the game sucks? That it never gets made? That Brian Fargo and Tim Schafer sensually rub each other down with our hard earned cash?

Not everyone is Brian Fargo/Tim Schafer. This is a poor argument.

[oneils]

What is the risk with kickstarter funding? That the game sucks? That it never gets made? That Brian Fargo and Tim Schafer sensually rub each other down with our hard earned cash?

Yeah, that the game never gets made. That's the risk. Not saying its a huge one. It's just a risk you take over a traditional retail pre-order.

[lednerg]

Wow. I want this game to succeed just to spite that douchemongler. Did he use to work for Ocean Marketing by any chance?

[dLMN8R]

I love Kickstarter!

I love PC games!

I love iOS games!

TouchArcade is a great site with reviews I almost always agree with, despite its misguided EIC!



Am I allowed in this thread?

[Coal]

This thread is so hilarious, five star, would read again, etc.

[shagg_187]

Just doubled my pledge on account of this.

Lol yeah, I'm going to tomorrow ASAP.

[thetrin]

Yeah, that the game never gets made. That's the risk. Not saying its a huge one. It's just a risk you take over a traditional retail pre-order.

I'm pretty sure there is some semblance of legal liability that a kickstarter project is subject to in the event that they do not follow through and run off to Mexico with our dollars and cents. I don't know for sure, but I have heard that the approval process is rather rigorous.

Although, now that I've mentioned it, I can't help but think about Fargo and Schafer rubbing each other down with my Benjamins. They're obviously clothed, but it's a shocking image all the same.

[Ignis Fatuus]

[lednerg]

To be fair what is he supposed to say? He has every right to not believe in kickstarter, and he doesn't have to grovel to people to appease them.

He doesn't have to be a complete and utter turd about it in a public forum, either.

[oneils]

I love Kickstarter! I love PC games! I love iOS games! TouchArcade is a great site with reviews I almost always agree with, despite its misguided EIC! Am I allowed in this thread?

Sorry, nope. Otherwise you might create a black hole. It is really for your own good! :p