[kuroshiki]

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...-a-sweatshirt/

Rovio went on to use Box 2D, just as thousands of other companies did, to create their game Angry Birds. Angry Birds, a game with a simple objective where gamers have to use a slingshot to fling angry birds at green pigs, was released in 2009 and has gone on to sell over 700 million copies. Gamers of all types have become addicted to Angry Birds at one time or another, and its characters have been made into toys, put on clothing, and just about everything else. There are even rumors that an Angry Birds movie may be on the way. All Erin Catto has received from the mass success of Angry Birds is a red sweatshirt, and he doesn't even like the color red. "If they would send me a blue one I would wear it!” he said.

A red sweatshirt.


Kudos to Erin, creator of Box2D, which is free physical engine used in hundreds of smartphone games out there.

I know Rovio doesn't have to pay anything to Erin, but I don't know, this just sounds... wrong.

Heck, they could donate some money for his kids' college fund. This is real douchebag movement.

[ElectricBlanketFire]

I'd be angry.

[antonz]

Rovio is a douchebag company no doubt. They steal other peoples work, and act as if they are gods gift to the industry

[slaughterking]

It's like they are mocking him.

[Tiktaalik]

Rovio is a douchebag company no doubt. They steal other peoples work, and act as if they are gods gift to the industry

except that Box2D is open source and nothing was stolen

[Darklord]

Rovio makes Bobby Kotick look like a good bloke.

[Derrick01]

except that Box2D is open source and nothing was stolen

I think the actual game was being referred to here. There were flash games like 5 years ago doing exactly what AB does now.

[Rapstah]

This is sort of the risk you take when creating a free engine. Is he credited?

[JaggedSac]

lol, it is like they are trolling.

[kuroshiki]

except that Box2D is open source and nothing was stolen

It is, but still this just rubs me in the wrong way.

[benny_a]

Should have used GPL instead of zlib.

This is sort of the risk you take when creating a free engine. Is he credited?

He doesn't have to be. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlib_License

[Tiktaalik]

The license for using Box2D doesn't even require giving credit to the developers of Box2D.

[Why would you do that?]

Rovio is a douchebag company no doubt. They steal other peoples work, and act as if they are gods gift to the industry

If you're referring to Box2D, they didn't steal it simply because it has a permissive, open-source license.

If you're referring to Crush the Castle, then maybe you'll have a point if they claim that the core gameplay of Angry Birds has never been done before.

Should have used GPL instead of zlib.

If it used GPL, it would be much harder for commercial games using the engine to be released.

[Carl]

Always nice when billionaire companies thank the ones that got them there...

[Pastry]

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...-a-sweatshirt/ A red sweatshirt. Kudos to Erin, creator of Box2D, which is free physical engine used in hundreds of smartphone games out there. I know Rovio doesn't have to pay anything to Erin, but I don't know, this just sounds... wrong. Heck, they could donate some money for his kids' college fund. This is real douchebag movement.

Haha this is bizarro. It's open source. He made the decision to take Box2D this route knowing full well that someone could make it big using this.

[LiK]

lol, at least give them some of those plushies

[Htown]

That sucks, but that's kind of the down side to releasing something open source.

[Tobor]

except that Box2D is open source and nothing was stolen

This. How is Rovio even remotely in the wrong here? They are using the software as intended.

[Acosta]

Not only the guy had to ask Vesterbacka to give him a little of credit for using his engine, now this?

Douchebags.

[jooey]

they could give him a solid gold house and a lifetime admission to Six Flags and we'd still call them douchebags.

[Acosta]

This. How is Rovio even remotely in the wrong here? They are using the software as intended.

There are concepts called "class" and "generosity".

[Interficium]

Joey Betz and Chris Condon have way more to be angry with then free physics middleware guy.

[Darklord]

This. How is Rovio even remotely in the wrong here? They are using the software as intended.

Sending a red sweatshirt to the company that help make them billionaires, stolen or not, is a scummy thing to do. It's an insult.

[Nemo]

This is sort of the risk you take when creating a free engine. Is he credited?

Box2D is credited in angry birds space

[Baconsammy]

I'm finding it difficult to be mad at them.

[Dog Problems]

Sending a red sweatshirt to the company that help make them billionaires, stolen or not, is a scummy thing to do. It's an insult.

It reminds me of the movie Screwed, where the old woman gives Norm McDonald's character a pie as a gift.

[dallow_bg]

Box2D is credited in angry birds space

Originally it wasn't until the dev asked them if they could please do.
(not space, the original)

[HK-47]

they could give him a solid gold house and a lifetime admission to Six Flags and we'd still call them douchebags.

Well duh. Gold makes horrible housing.

[Carl]

The license for using Box2D doesn't even require giving credit to the developers of Box2D.

Meh, when you leave school there is no obligation to thank your teachers, but it's always nice after the worked hard to get you where you are.

[Tobor]

There are concepts called "class" and "generosity".

Not relevant. They released a product as open source. The only lesson I see here is, charge for your work or sell a product if you want to be paid.

[Kalnos]

There are concepts called "class" and "generosity".

Yep. It's pretty much just not being a douchebag.

He doesn't want to be paid AFAIK Tobor, he just wants Box2D in the credits or something.

[RoyalFool]

I remember.. I think it was at GDC, some guy stood up and asked them what 2D physics engine they were using, he speaker said Box2D at which point the guy mentioned that he was the programmer and asked why he wasn't credited. The speaker muttered something about 'seeing him afterwards'. I remember at the time thinking the Rovio chap was pretty rude about it.

I guess it was to get his chest size or something.

[animlboogy]

Why do people keep going on about the open source license? That goes without saying. This is about being gentlemen. Being proper human beings. His work led to a lot of money to them in a very direct way; they could at least come up with something cool like donating a chunk of change to a charity of his choice, or open a fund if he has kids to pay for college. It would be a drop in the bucket, and it wouldn't be the disincentive to making your work open source that this story currently is.

[VVIS]

At GDC he stood up and ousted Rovio on a panel. They were like wut??

The thing is that indies like indie-love, and Rovio had blown up and gotten all full of themselves. Bottom line is that Box2d is Open Source, so what do you expect? I'd be HELLA-pissed that I made some free software.

He should make a new physics engine and sell it. There are plenty of devs that can afford a low cost physics solution.

[benny_a]

If it used GPL, it would be much harder for commercial games using the engine to be released.

It would be impossible for GPLv3 given that it all started on iOS. And I would have been fine with that.
I was using it in jest however. He choose the license and he has to live with the consequences.

That doesn't make it right for the company to basically insult him by sending him a t-shirt.

If you take a permissive free-software middleware and you end up making it big, I think it's right to at least show that you appreciate the developers of said middleware. You call them out on your own, you don't have to be asked in front of a crowd to be credited.

[Tobor]

Yep. It's pretty much just not being a douchebag. He doesn't want to be paid AFAIK Tobor, he just wants Box2D in the credits or something.

Then this is a non-story.

[dallow_bg]

Not relevant. They released a product as open source. The only lesson I see here is, charge for your work or sell a product if you want to be paid.

Well duh, but that's not what this thread is about.
Obviously they don't have to do anything.

[ElectricBlanketFire]

If you take a permissive free-software middleware and you end up making it big, I think it's right to at least show that you appreciate the developers of said middleware. You call them out on your own, you don't have to be asked in front of a crowd to be credited.

I'm assuming they asked to be credited long before that incident.

[Acosta]

Not relevant. They released a product as open source. The only lesson I see here is, charge for your work or sell a product if you want to be paid.

Nobody is asking about "paying", not even the developer. He doesn't complain, the only think he asked back then is a bit of credit.

You can do a lot of useful things for someone that has indirectly helped you that don't involve money.

[animlboogy]

You call them out on your own, you don't have to be asked in front of a crowd to be credited.

Or, if they must see it as an investment in the the company's interest, turn it into a PR opportunity before bad press like this starts leaking out. Invite him up at GDC in front of people and give him a nice gift, or a job. If it absolutely HAS to be anything other than in private.

[Acosta]

Then this is a non-story.

There is a story, they are a douchebags.

[Tobor]

Nobody is asking about "paying", not even the developer. He doesn't complain, the only think he asked back then is a bit of credit. You can do a lot of useful things for someone that has indirectly helped you that don't involve money.

Well, we've established that they've been given a credit in the new game, so issue resolved.

[Slappers Only]

Rovio is a douchebag company no doubt. They steal other peoples work, and act as if they are gods gift to the industry

Don't talk about Valve like that.

[gofreak]

Not relevant. They released a product as open source. The only lesson I see here is, charge for your work or sell a product if you want to be paid.

As he notes himself, though, if he hadn't offered it like this, people may not have used it.

So it's not like there is no benefit to him in choosing the license arrangement he did. He made a deliberate choice around the licensing to encourage adoption of his lib, perhaps over competing alternatives too. These things stand to you on your CV etc. if you've made a tool or library that's become popular.

He doesn't sound bitter about it. I wouldn't pity him, he's built a reputation and it's helped his career.

In terms of compensation...Rovio are under no obligation here, I don't think even morally. Everyone building software today is building on work others have done, often for free, and quite willingly without requiring compensation. Maybe there is a case-by-case argument for compensation in certain circumstances, and maybe this would be one - I don't know - but there's certainly no general rule here. They're not going to go back and pay a cut to the people who made their IDE, the people who developed the language they used...etc. etc.

[antonz]

Its insulting and I am sure pretty much any gaffer would be insulted if their work made someone a billion dollars and when your appreciation gift suddenly showed up it was a Tshirt with the face of the guy you made a billion dollars for on it.

[Tiktaalik]

Makes you start to think about all the amazing tools that are out there that are freely available.

I mean the coding language itself, whether it was C++ or Obj C, both are freely available for use.

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Its insulting and I am sure pretty much any gaffer would be insulted if their work made someone a billion dollars and when your appreciation gift suddenly showed up it was a Tshirt with the face of the guy you made a billion dollars for on it.

This.

I'd rather get nothing.

[epmode]

Don't talk about Valve like that.

I replied to your post.

[Htown]

Don't talk about Valve like that.

Don't do that.

[FieryBalrog]

Don't talk about Valve like that.

Well, Valve pays...