[chubigans]

So 1up did a God of War: Ascension preview. But this one is a little bit different than the rest, hence the new thread.

http://www.1up.com/previews/god-war-ascension-preview

In it, Bob Mackey objects to the violence on display in the video, comparing it to the "most iconic and provocative scenes in film history," Un Chien Andalou. That's where a woman's eye is cut in a close up scene (in reality it's a dead pig's eyeball).

Some choice quotes:

After a producer took the stage to flatly spill the beans about the latest God of War "product" (hint: the best way to get people excited about your game is to speak of it as you would a tractor or discount boating supplies), a crowd of journalists bore witness to not one, not two, but four ripped-and-shredded Greek figures tearing into monsters and one another with the kind of testosterone-fueled mania now standard for the God of War series. An initial fight with a cyclops ended with a spectacular burst of violence when the one-eyed creature's meticulously rendered entrails slipped out of his man-sized torso wound, causing its lifeless body to slump over and disappear, Double Dragon-style.

After the somewhat directionless action leveled off, the playable characters focused their attacks on the colossal megaclops, which seemed like it'd be happier anywhere else, given the chance. After slicing his jaw down the center, our heroes each launched a grappling hook into his throbbing, bloodshot eye, as if to reenact some ancient World's Strongest Man competition. But instead of yanking a bus down a city street using only their teeth, these brave warriors slowly but surely pulled his eye from its socket in what can only be described as an excruciating handful of seconds. Just before the eye could pop forth from its happy home, a player leapt at it, sword pointing dangerously outwards. Mere tenths of a second before contact, the God of War: Ascension logo hit the screen with that noise logos make when they do such things, mercifully interrupting what could have been -- surprisingly -- even uglier. The lights go up, and the crowd erupts. I slink down in my chair. Did I somehow get on the wrong bus and end up at a serial killer convention? Or are tasteless examples of sadism like this slowly but surely slithering their way into video games?

The violence I'm most accustomed to comes in abstract, cartoonish, and mostly unrealistic depictions, and usually lasts just as long as it needs to for the sake of game flow. God of War: Ascension's prolonged and detailed violence felt ripped right out of torture porn's greatest hits, with a dash of added ugliness thanks to the fact that you're not supposed to empathize with the creature crying out in pain. I'm sure that megaclops may have decimated its share of villages and eaten a few hundred virgins, but damn it if I didn't feel for it during those horrible final moments.

But when the lights went up for questions, I felt like I needed a shower, and clearly wasn't ready to dig into the free lunch provided for us afterwards (luckily they did not include peeled grapes in the fruit selection). I've always been peripherally aware of the God of War series, but I never really assumed the violence had such a sadistic angle -- though I do remember a description of eye-gouging during God of War 3's preview coverage had me making a mental note to avoid it at all costs.

The scenes in question, in GIF form and video:

GIF 1- Jaw Slice

GIF 2- Eyeball

Multiplayer Gameplay (youtube)

I saw this 1up article and laughed it off in one of the many GOW threads today. But the more I think about it, the more I wonder.

I'm pretty much desensitized to this kind of violence in GOW, as it comes with the territory. But how did the 1up writer get such a different reaction to the violence than I did? He's played as many games as I've had, probably more. To hear him call it the best among "torture porn" makes me wince a bit.

What I find most interesting is how a video game was able to elicit these kinds of emotions from the writer. He felt genuine empathy for the megaclops. Not a lot of videogames can draw those kinds of emotions, or at least, not two minute multiplayer clips. That's something, I guess.

Has GOW:A really crossed the line? Is there really a point where violence can go too far? I don't think I've seen it yet, not even with games like Manhunt. Does anyone agree with Mackey?

[V_Ben]

You can have many different reactions to media. Some people think that the works of francis bacon are disgusting and vulgar, but hey-ho.

Also, God Of War's violence is the equivalent of a bugs bunny cartoon with arterial spray. I can get how somebody can wince and go "goodness me, that's a bit much, but to out and out decide that your fellow workers are behaving like sadists seems somewhat ludicrous.

[GreggTheGrimReaper]

I love the GOW series but I could live without the violence, I guess it just sells better to kids.

[Criminal Upper]

That's the problem with God of War 3, some of THAT was pushing the envelope, so of course, this shorter prequel with multiplayer has to one-up that game to be considered successfull.

[impact]

Has he never played GoW?

[animlboogy]

Also, God Of War's violence is the equivalent of a bugs bunny cartoon with arterial spray.

This cannot be repeated enough.

Nothing to see here. Especially if you're a cyclops in a God of War game.

[Cartman86]

I like it the same way I like it in horror films. As long as it doesn't get to the point where it's torturing characters over and over it will be good silly fun.

[udivision]

So, do we say "What's so bad about the violence?" or go the "Stupid Americans and their ultra-violence but censored sexuality" route.

[upJTboogie]

That's what GOW is about over the top violence, I say bring it on.

[Deadbeat]

I guess that comparison of a frog in water being slowly heated and not noticing itself cooking to death would be applicable. The idea that violence is slowly becoming more ramped up to a point where we will reach a plateau that people stop and think "you know thats pretty fucked up" is happening. But the fact is when you approach that, you have tested the waters. So when it approaches that point once again it will continue growing.

But if you look at soldier of fortune series (2 specifically), its not like violence hasnt already reached that peak. The difference being its 2012 instead of 2002. Graphics have advanced greatly. So for many people that disconnect of an avatar no longer applies. But the notion that violence is ascending in the industry and in such a franchise is wrong. Its just becoming more mainstream so it appears that its getting more grotesque, but how far we take violence hasnt changed. Just the detail of the violence.

[Alex]

Doesn't really bug me, the savagery is just part of the theme to me. If they took it away I feel like it'd be missing something.

It's funny because I am a massive wimp when it comes to movie gore, I could never watch a saw movie.

[Himself]

I'm just surprised that even how desensitized to violence many people are, these God of War games still manage to shock with how utterly disgusting some of the deaths are and this cyclops was no exception. Looking forward to more.

[Rikkun]

I closed the eyeball.gif after 3 seconds. Ugh, like I needed another reason to not like GoW.

[Goldmund]

I love the GOW series but I could live without the violence, I guess it just sells better to kids.

So much for the Bacon analogy.

[Tucah]

It's overly violent, but that's nothing new for the series and the stuff shown for Ascension is no more violent than countless other moments throughout the series.

[Huff]

Has he never played GoW?

No, it says in the quotes he avoided it because of its previews and gore

why was he even at the event?

[Criminal Upper]

It's really clear with those GIFs and most of God of War 3, that the series is pushing violence rather than really good gameplay or taking a chance on a new setting or story, or anything innovative.

[Jack Scofield]

The violence I'm most accustomed to comes in abstract, cartoonish, and mostly unrealistic depictions

Cartoony and unrealistic are two words I would use to describe most of GOW's violence (with some exceptions). It's like somebody complaining about the excessive amounts of "realistic" violence in Kill Bill.

It's funny because I am a massive wimp when it comes to movie gore, I could never watch a saw movie.

Dear god, this is exactly how I am. I can't even fathom watching Hostel, yet I have no problem with video game violence.

[Hot Coldman]

GoW always seemed to fit into the same pigeonhole as Gears and shit like that, with its ridiculously OTT blood fountains and the fact that the dudes you're killing are 99% of the time some weird mythological beast or some daft-looking chap.

The violence is "realistic", but the context is not.

[Mister Saturn]

I object far more to the implication that because violence can be displayed in a cartoonish manner, it somehow becomes more okay.

[EmCeeGramr]

No, it says in the quotes he avoided it because of its previews and gore why was he even at the event?

Presumably because he was invited or nobody else at 1UP could go.

[Cartman86]

I object far more to the implication that because violence can be displayed in a cartoonish manner, it somehow becomes more okay.

Okay guys here we go! What is your reasoning and evidence for cartoon violence being wrong?

[Eppy Thatcher]

rippingoffhelioshead.gif

nothing new here... sensitive to violence reviewer watches GOW game... is disgusted. News at 11.

[NIN90]

I find it funny how Cyclops' always get their eye ripped out of their skull in GoW games.

I wouldn't get anywhere near a GoW game if I were a Cyclops.

[impact]

No, it says in the quotes he avoided it because of its previews and gore why was he even at the event?

What a pussy

[benny_a]

I guess that comparison of a frog in water being slowly heated and not noticing itself cooking to death would be applicable.

PSA: That's actually not true.
I'm not a fan of the violence in GoW but if that's the way I have to get my (hopeful) power stone gameplay I will face it.

Okay guys here we go! What is your reasoning and evidence for cartoon violence being wrong?

Bugs Bunny exists since the 1940s. Bugs Bunny features cartoon violence. There have been murders since the 1940s. There even was a world war going on at that time. QED.

[Deadbeat]

PSA: That's actually not true.

I know it isnt. That doesnt mean the concept isnt valid.

[Pachterballs]

why would they send this weaksauce dude to cover GOWA? Did he miss GOW3?


1up. LOL

[MYE]

I've seen the ogre with a slashed jaw and frightened look getting its eye ripped out by chains...

yeah

[bomma_man]

The violence in Manhunt was there to make the player question themselves.

GOW just seems gratuitous and childish; violence to distract from its shallowness as a game compared to similar games. Kinda like torture porn movies.

[Haunted]

For what it's worth, I thought ripping off Helios' head in GoW III was a bit much.


It is pretty sadistic and glorified violence, which is clearly not this editor's cup of tea.

[Valnen]

Eh, I thought slowly ripping off someone's head in GoW3 was worse than either of those gifs. How you could see the muscles and skin rip apart was just so graphic that it was actually somewhat shocking the first time I saw it. It almost looked real.

[Derrick01]

Did I get the wrong bus & end up at E3 2009?

Seriously it's the same played out complaints from when god of war 3 was shown off. A few people who can't take fake gore complain and the world moves on.

[prwxv3]

The Chronos level is one of the most incredible showcases of graphic violence I have ever seen.

[animlboogy]

But if you look at soldier of fortune series (2 specifically), its not like violence hasnt already reached that peak. The difference being its 2012 instead of 2002. Graphics have advanced greatly. So for many people that disconnect of an avatar no longer applies. But the notion that violence is ascending in the industry and in such a franchise is wrong. Its just becoming more mainstream so it appears that its getting more grotesque, but how far we take violence hasnt changed. Just the detail of the violence.

But even then, God of War is still incredibly cartoony. Watch one of the more... accurate shock/gore films. And many of us at some point in our internet lives have been exposed to actual filmed deaths. GoW doesn't get anywhere close.

[Carl]

Psst, Cyclops don't really exist.

God Of War's violence is the equivalent of a bugs bunny cartoon with arterial spray

Agree

[Of All Trades]

I wonder if this time the game will actually follow through with the theme of defining the character (and thus the player) as a perpetrator of horrific, irredeemable violence and therefore the villain in no uncertain terms. GoW3 moved in that direction but botched it with the final 3rd act.

[EmCeeGramr]

Did I get the wrong bus & end up at E3 2009? Seriously it's the same played out complaints from when god of war 3 was shown off. A few people who can't take fake gore complain and the world moves on.

You should probably e-mail the dude and tell him that his honest opinion is "played out" Because Of The Internet.

[mysteriousmage09]

Lol...

"Stays away from GoW series due to violence".

"Goes to media event for GoW Ascension".

"Game has violence that he knew the series had hence forth the reason for keeping away from series".

"Is shocked the game is so violent and calls everyone that likes it sadists".

Grade A journalism there and grade A choice for the event 1up.

[Goldmund]

Way back in the days ...

Violence (both pure and refined) is our culture's bedrock. It's what structures our hierarchies, delimits the way we love, conducts our wars, creates our pornography etc. -- you could call it the mathematics of our minds. This makes violence so important, no means of communication can silence it without relapsing into tautology. We simply wouldn't understand a thought that doesn't communicate power relations, at least distantly. The discussion doesn't make a clear distinction between violence and gore as far as I followed it: I think it should. The Silent Hill games are incredibly violent, but I don't think they revel in gore. Even the Mario games are surprisingly violent. Maybe I only make this distinction, because gory pictures make me nauseous, though. It's not just video games. I even skipped the passage in Alfred Döblin's novel Berlin Alexanderplatz that describes the practices of a slaughterhouse.

The difference is that myths are one of the earliest (and still most reliable) forms of historiography, recounting very accurately the few truly qualitative shifts of the human psyche. If you look past the supernatural images, you'll notice that very few myths are made up. This is the reason why even past Euripides they've been the foundation of many pieces of literature: the traces of those shifts are still present and we still subconsciously respond to the stories of old. Ulysses isn't obsolete. Greek mythology mainly documents the triumph of positive legislation, or patriarchy, over natural law, or gynarchy. If you can only see lewd stories, you probably consider the bible a bunch of bloody fairy tales as well. The problem, I believe, isn't that God of War misrepresents Greek mythology (who cares?), it's that by using it as its context: it makes little sense and seems random. There's nothing meaningful in the game, at all. That's the only thing you can hold against it.

[Cartman86]

PSA: That's actually not true. I'm not a fan of the violence in GoW but if that's the way I have to get my (hopeful) power stone gameplay I will face it. Bugs Bunny exists since the 1940s. Bugs Bunny features cartoon violence. There have been murders since the 1940s. There even was a world war going on at that time. QED.

Air tight logic.

[animlboogy]

I object far more to the implication that because violence can be displayed in a cartoonish manner, it somehow becomes more okay.

So I take it you only play Tetris? Because 99% of videogames involve some form of violence, almost always the absolute destruction of another life.

It's about getting people excited and engaged through adrenaline. Since you're rarely moving yourself, kill-or-be-killed is the default mode of the entire medium. It's not about belittling death, it's about creating excitement.

Any sane human being can separate, and even be entertained by, violence in games. Including over-the-top scenarios, which often serve to highlight the fact that these are fantasy worlds.

[24FrameDaVinci]

Obnoxious.

[benny_a]

Did I get the wrong bus & end up at E3 2009? Seriously it's the same played out complaints from when god of war 3 was shown off. A few people who can't take fake gore complain and the world moves on.

The OP asks why a game can illicit a feeling of being bad about it, or at least why it did for the author of the article who apparently seems to be quite alone with that feeling. I don't understand it either and I'm very squeamish when it comes to horror films.

But some high poly models getting fucked up and having the low-poly intestines fall out doesn't phase me.

[BHK3]

If he can't take the heat, he should get out of the event.

[Hot Coldman]

Psst, Cyclops don't really exist.

I will totally Optic Blast your punk ass

[MattKeil]

I object far more to the implication that because violence can be displayed in a cartoonish manner, it somehow becomes more okay.

I don't think "more okay" is really the issue. The issue is that it's pretty silly to get that worked up over cartoon bodybuilders stabbing a cartoon cyclops.

[thetrin]

For what it's worth, I thought ripping off Helios' head in GoW III was a bit much. It is pretty sadistic and glorified violence, which is clearly not this editor's cup of tea.

I thought that was pretty over the top too. Then again, God of War is "BIG DUMB VIOLENCE: THE GAME". It's a game without narrative substance. It's just about a bald angry man having a pantheistic temper tantrum.

It appeals to a large portion of the market, but it does revel in what it is: Big, Dumb, and incredibly violent.

I don't think "more okay" is really the issue. The issue is that it's pretty silly to get that worked up over cartoon bodybuilders stabbing a cartoon cyclops.

I'm certainly not getting worked up over the whole thing, but it does seem excessively violent with no real objective. It's violent for the sake of mutilation.

[GeoramA]

I wouldn't have it any other way. I want my GoW games to be over-the-top brutal as possible and SSM never fails to deliver. Hell, look at the stir they caused just from a multiplayer reveal :lol

[shidoshi]

I don't knock the series or anybody who enjoys it, but the level of violence is one of the reasons that I don't play the God of War series. It's a huge turn-off to me.

Then again, part of why I loved Corpse Party was because of how brutal of a story it was. I think it's all in the way violence is used, and the storytelling. Plus, I guess, in Corpse Party you weren't enacting the violence yourself. When you're the one doing it, that's when I can't stand to play a game.