[thetrin]

As a practical matter, they download a pirated copy and play it on an emulator. Whether or not you consider that ethical depends on your own standards.

I sure hope someone is archiving these games so that's possible 10 years from now.

[IrishNinja]

I sure hope someone is archiving these games so that's possible 10 years from now.

looking at the various scenes...i feel pretty confident saying this doesn't strike me as a big concern, i think it's totally happening.

[Bboy AJ]

You're wrong. An Eula in a boxed product is never a legal contract simply because it wasn't read and signed before the purchase. It's as simple as that. Then you have the issue that in the EU at least, companies forfeit every right to the copy you bought the moment they sell it to you. The physical copy is your property after the transaction is completed. DD is insofar different as you are only paying a license to use a software. In this case, this license can be revoked at any time and without disclosure. I'd call the police if someone from EA was standing at my door wanting my game back and have them arrested. A recall isn't legally binding, especially when there was no signed contract, which with games there never is. The legislation regarding DD is a muddy grey area, that has many loopholes which allows publishers to act like EA just did.

We keep moving the goal posts here. My initial and only claim is that DD hasn't changed the rules. You have always, always paid for a license to use software. Whether it's a legal contract, whether was read and signed before the purchase, that's not what I'm arguing. DD only enables companies to exercise this EULA in an easier fashion.

I am not going to plug every single hole with which you can come up. My claim stands. There has always been an EULA allowing a license to use the software. DD did not change that.

I can only amend my initial statement by talking solely about the US. I don't know EU law.

[Shambles]

And you dumb asses will just keep going back to EA over, and over.

[devildog820]

And you dumb asses will just keep going back to EA over, and over.

Never again. I will download any games they have for free, but I will not give them another cent.

[MMaRsu]

And you dumb asses will just keep going back to EA over, and over.

Yeah sadly I must buy the SSX dlc today.

[MechaX]

Fucking entitled gamers, thinking they would be able to play the games they actually purchased for an unlimited time period.

[Flachmatuch]

Why is everyone conflating DD in general with this one, specific, heinous publisher?

Because it's not about the "heinous" individual traits of a publisher, but about what makes business sense. The entire idea behind pure DD is that you own nothing and are just a licencee. Not convenience, not cost saving of physical media, but more control. If this makes sense and enhances profits (by, for example, being able to sell the same thing multiple times), competition will unavoidably make other publishers follow. Doh. This is how shit works, it's not about the individual qualities of corporations ffs.

[Izick]

They can do that?...really?

[WickedCobra03]

Because it's not about the "heinous" individual traits of a publisher, but about what makes business sense. The entire idea behind pure DD is that you own nothing and are just a licencee. Not convenience, not cost saving of physical media, but more control. If this makes sense and enhances profits (by, for example, being able to sell the same thing multiple times), competition will unavoidably make other publishers follow. Doh. This is how shit works, it's not about the individual qualities of corporations ffs.

Basically all of this. If you have no physical copy of the game, and you are basically on a long term rental, companies have total control over the game as well as still charging full price for that content, even years down the road because they are the only outlet.

[SmokyDave]

Because it's not about the "heinous" individual traits of a publisher, but about what makes business sense. The entire idea behind pure DD is that you own nothing and are just a licencee. Not convenience, not cost saving of physical media, but more control. If this makes sense and enhances profits (by, for example, being able to sell the same thing multiple times), competition will unavoidably make other publishers follow. Doh. This is how shit works, it's not about the individual qualities of corporations ffs.

Steam sales make sense and enhance profits so why don't we envision a future where they are commonplace?

Different companies, different ethics, different models of operation.

[Meier]

Reprehensible to say the least.

[petethepanda]

Well that's certainly the last time I buy a mobile EA game.

[Dead Man]

We keep moving the goal posts here. My initial and only claim is that DD hasn't changed the rules. You have always, always paid for a license to use software. Whether it's a legal contract, whether was read and signed before the purchase, that's not what I'm arguing. DD only enables companies to exercise this EULA in an easier fashion. I am not going to plug every single hole with which you can come up. My claim stands. There has always been an EULA allowing a license to use the software. DD did not change that. I can only amend my initial statement by talking solely about the US. I don't know EU law.

See, to many people in the world, DD does change the rules. It also changes the mechanisms. Which as a practical matter changes the experience, which always feels like a change in the rules.

[Tunesmith]

The standard EA Mobile EULA that all their games appear to use: http://t.co/itgVYYTM - aka "we reserve the right to revoke service at any point."

[Wiggler]

Did you actually try taking legal action, e.g. get a lawyer to file a DMCA notice against Apple? It seems like the most obvious thing to do rather than simply talking about it on the internet. Apple has absolutely no obligation or reason to do anything about the copyright infringement (not theft) until you do that one single step. If they had to investigate every time someone claims on the internet that someone is infringing on their copyrights, they'd never get anything done.

We spoke with several lawyers, one of which was a supposedly big-wig law firm in Chicago. Bottom line, nobody wanted to take Apple on and all of them told us we were pretty much on our own, you know, unless we have really deep pockets. Well, we don't.

So, we sent cease and desist letters. Twice, because Apple ignored us completely the first time and the second time, they said they would "look into it" and of course they did nothing. We basically resorted to harassing Apple a bit until we finally gave up because they wouldn't follow through and stop selling stolen material. Our material.

Apple, as it turns out, is immune from the likes of us.

[FStop7]

I'm sure games journalists will eventually find a way to link to this forum thread.

Only after receiving approval from their handlers at EA to do so.

[Hero_of_the_Day]

So do we have credible confirmation this is true yet, or still just the word of a couple people on the EA forums?

[FyreWulff]

Stolen from Scorehero

According to Kotaku, HMX has no idea what's going on with this. http://kotaku.com/5906971/harmonix-d...xpiration-date In response to Kotaku's request for comment, a representative from developer Harmonix said they don't know why the app gave that notification. "EA Mobile is responsible for the publishing and hosting of Rock Band on iOS," a Harmonix representative said. "We're reaching out to them to better understand what's happening with the app."

[larvi]

We keep moving the goal posts here. My initial and only claim is that DD hasn't changed the rules. You have always, always paid for a license to use software. Whether it's a legal contract, whether was read and signed before the purchase, that's not what I'm arguing. DD only enables companies to exercise this EULA in an easier fashion. I am not going to plug every single hole with which you can come up. My claim stands. There has always been an EULA allowing a license to use the software. DD did not change that. I can only amend my initial statement by talking solely about the US. I don't know EU law.

The difference in my mind is that with physical software the companies had to take legal action and the burden of proof was on them to show that the consumer violated the licensing terms before a consumer would lose access to their software that they purchased, as it should be. With DD the companies can deny access to software unilaterally without any corresponding legal action, they have effectively shifted the burden to the consumer to take the legal action and prove they do have a right to use it, which the companies know very few consumers have the means or the desire to do that.

[Ridley327]

Stolen from Scorehero

That explains why they don't know what's going on. Did they handle anything besides the music licensing for the game?

[DR3AM]

that cant be right, maybe leaderboards or online features are getting shut down. how can they even disable the app not to run?

[Jackl]

DD is not the problem, and physical copies will only protect you until the publishers/console makers band together a 1 time use system.

[davepoobond]

DD is not the problem, and physical copies will only protect you until the publishers/console makers band together a 1 time use system.

1 time use system = DD on a disc.

not the same thing. it makes it into a service, and services are not guaranteed to work forever.

[Fantastical]

"DD future" frightens me quite a bit and this doesn't help things, although honestly this wasn't even one of my fears. This is just plain bullshit.

[Kamek]

I was actually considering buying the new Madden this year as my first EA purchase, but forget that. This is absolutely ridiculous.

[R_thanatos]

that cant be right, maybe leaderboards or online features are getting shut down. how can they even disable the app not to run?

Lots of ways actually... i've done Ios apps and as a devellopper , you can whatever you want with it in the code so long that you stay in your "zone".

For example, you could have the app to check a server to run or in this case you could give a license in the code with an expiration date that the app could check at some moments during his life.

In this case it will run on your device but you can't play

[Clint Beastwood]

Why does it not surprise me that DD haters come out in full force and knock DD as a ripoff. These kinds of people need to accept that probably in another 10 years games will most likely be pure digital download?

..because how can we be sure other publishers won't do this same thing?

If gaming ever goes pure digital I won't play games anymore. I like to own my games and play them whenever I want and not have to worry about an expiration date.

[MajorPain]

The standard EA Mobile EULA that all their games appear to use: http://t.co/itgVYYTM - aka "we reserve the right to revoke service at any point."

I never read any of the "Terms of Service". Maybe I should start.

But EA has taught me a couple good lessons first foremost don't buy anything they publish.

Secondly this has me thinking should I should trust any digital content I buy. If they continue to get away with these shady tatics what will happen to our other digital content? And not just games from other publishers what about our music, books, movies, etc???

[Vibri]

Are some people here really standing up for the billion dollar corporation's right to squeeze more profit and damn the results? Is this an EA stock seminar or a forum primarily for gamers?

From our perspective, there is a huge difference -implied or practical- between the decades old established value system of buying -> own forever, to buy -> license until we can sell it to you again on another platform.

[RoninChaos]

EA: It's in the game.

... unless we turn the game off.

[Wubby]

Well one thing's for sure, next time I (maybe) buy an EA game if I see anything that mentions needing an internet connection to play then I definitely won't be buying.

Shame too, the new SimCity looks great but requires an internet connection.

[RedNumberFive]

Are some people here really standing up for the billion dollar corporation's right to squeeze more profit and damn the results? Is this an EA stock seminar or a forum primarily for gamers? From our perspective, there is a huge difference -implied or practical- between the decades old established value system of buying -> own forever, to buy -> license until we can sell it to you again on another platform.

You must be new here. This is GAF - the white knights of the gaming industry.

[Onion_Relish]

Handheld gaming devices are looking better and better. Once the game is on my psp, no one is getting it back from me.
"strokes psp which holds little brave story, a game now removed from the PlayStation store"

[kurtrussell]

From our perspective, there is a huge difference -implied or practical- between the decades old established value system of buying -> own forever, to buy -> license until we can sell it to you again on another platform.

Of course there is, so buy physical or GTFO.

The problem here is mostly that people are essentially renting software with DD and expecting the consumer rights and attributes of physical media.

[~Kinggi~]

Yeah welcome to your "convenient" digital distro future, brought to you by EA.

[salpa]

No, which is why I'm confused exactly how it can work. The wording is certainly fairly concrete, but how do you stop apps with the app already installed from using it when it currently works when offline?

All apps downloaded from the app store have a kill switch.

[Nevasleep]

Of course there is, so buy physical or GTFO. The problem here is mostly that people are essentially renting software with DD and expecting the consumer rights and attributes of physical media.

Why shouldn't they?

Are these EULA's actually even legal or valid in court?
Am I right that in contract law, if a contract contains bullshit or unfair terms, then effectively it doesn't count.

It would be interesting to see if people can use consumer laws, as really these applications should be considered actual products, and the same quality/terms should be expected.

[snap0212]

Am I right that in contract law, if a contract contains bullshit or unfair terms, then effectively it doesn't count.

Well, the contract was never a binding agreement since I never had a contract with EA to begin with. I bought something from Apple, I made business with them, not EA. /eu

[Nevasleep]

Well, the contract was never a binding agreement since I never had a contract with EA to begin with. I bought something from Apple, I made business with them, not EA. /eu

Well its certainly worth requesting a refund from Apple, regardless.

Took me two emails for a refund after a re-downloading a game where the publisher had changed names.

[R_thanatos]

Well, the contract was never a binding agreement since I never had a contract with EA to begin with. I bought something from Apple, I made business with them, not EA. /eu

Well that will be funny since the program you've got from apple still work and launches from your apple device and it will be only the EA content that will have dissapeared.

A magnificient lawsuit storm incoming i'm sure ...

[epmode]

You do know that there are games on Steam that will not run on Vista/Win 7?

I own SO MANY Steam and GOG games and I think I've only run into this issue once.

[deim0s]

inside the A looks like loch ness looking back

I see a sideways view of a hand giving us the finger.

[faceless007]

Why shouldn't they? Are these EULA's actually even legal or valid in court?

Unclear. In some courts they've been found valid and in some courts they haven't. Law has little precedent on the matter.

Ideally, they'd all be found invalid.

[larvi]

Why shouldn't they? Are these EULA's actually even legal or valid in court? Am I right that in contract law, if a contract contains bullshit or unfair terms, then effectively it doesn't count. It would be interesting to see if people can use consumer laws, as really these applications should be considered actual products, and the same quality/terms should be expected.

They might hold up in court and they might not, it would be up to a judge or jury to decide in most contact disputes. Unfortunately for the consumer, with digital purchases, EA can very easily just terminate your access and leave the burden on you to sue them if you want to get your access back.

[Nemo]

That message is fucking great. It's like the "no fun allowed" sign, only presented in a fun way

[SiegfriedFM]

I can't even see Rock Band on Itunes, was it ever available in Europe/Sweden?

[Omegasquash]

This should not be a surprise to anyone. You paid for it, but you don't own it!

[Nevasleep]

I can't even see Rock Band on Itunes, was it ever available in Europe/Sweden?

Still available in the UK, also it's published by EA Swiss Sarl (for tax avoidance).

[stuminus3]

All apps downloaded from the app store have a kill switch.

Wait... what!? o.O