[onQ123]

XBW investigates the latest rumours as Xbox 720 kits arrive with developers

Development kits for the next Xbox were shipped to developers in March, Xbox World can reveal. The first devkits were sent out shortly after Microsoft's supposedly top secret developers' conference in London on 28 February of this year. Crytek's senior technical artist Sean Tracy prematurely Tweeted his attendance, saying: "enjoying the Durango developers summit in London. So far, great swag and interesting talks." An hour later, Tracy remembered the secret part of his secret Microsoft Conference invite and deleted the Tweet, albeit slightly too late to avoid confirming the next Xbox is codenamed Durango, and representatives from across Europe were in Britain for a briefing on the new hardware. The Samaritan demo is already a year old. Next-gen will look better Similar meetings were held for American developers at San Francisco's Game Developers' Conference over the same week without any leaks or slip-ups from from the considerably more discrete attendees, and the first Durango devkits arrived shortly afterwards. Many developers are already working on next generation games with standard PC hardware, but the Durango devkits will let those developers transplant their PC experiments directly onto the next Xbox's hardware. The Durango kits don't resemble the final hardware in appearance, however - the original Xbox 360 devkits were Power PCs in standard PC cases - but the hardware inside is representative of the machineyou can expect to see in late 2013 - and it's a monster. XBW's sources suggest Durango's devkit is powered by a state of the art 16-core IBM PowerPC CPU with a graphics processor on par with AMD's Radeon HD 7000-series graphics cards. The 360's three-core 3.2Ghz IBM CPU is an antique by current PC standards, but a sixteen core CPU is future tech for even high-end home PC users. AMD launched the world's first 16-core processor for the business market in November of last year. Even if you had a 16-core processor in your gaming PC there are currently no games built to use it, but games for the next Xbox could put all sixteen cores to work on day one for a level of performance far in excess of current gaming PCs. It's a ridiculous amount of power for a games machine - too much power, even. But remember, Kinect 2 could chew up four whole cores tracking multiple players right down to their fingertips, so it'll need a lot of power. Sixteen cores would still leave more processing power than the next Xbox will ever need, even with Kinect's demands. Durango's AMD GPU is much more reasonable and has been something of an open secret for a while, thanks to leaks at Chinese manufacturing plants. AMD's brand-new 7000-series GPUs hit the consumer market in January of this year, and the higher-end models can run Battlefield 3 in 1080p with Ultra graphics settings at well over sixty frames per second. 360 packs a custom version of the AMD 1800-series GPU, and you already know how that performs - barely managing a consistent 30 frames in Battlefield 3 at a comparatively low sub-720p graphics setting. THE COMPETITION Developers expect Sony's PS4 to be even more powerful than the next Xbox, our sources at GDC confirm, but that's nothing for the boys at Microsoft to be scared about. PS3 is considerably more powerful than 360, with an 8-core custom IBM Cell CPU. In the PS3, one core is locked out to improve manufacturing yields, and another is reserved for the operating system, but that still leaves PS3 with double the 360's processing power on paper. Bethesda is recruiting staff for a next generation project. It’s unlikely to be a new Elder Scrolls − we reckon it’ll be Fallout 4 So why does PS3 consistently fall short of 360 in comparisons of multi-format games? The Cell processor is tough to work with, and Sony's memory bottlenecks frequently hold developers back. It's problems this generation have stemmed from the PS3's tricky architecture, not a lack of power. Next generation, they'll be back to basics. Sony's old way of thinking died when former SCE boss Ken Kutaragi was replaced by Kaz Hirai late in 2006. Kutaragi took pride in Sony's expensive custom solutions and regarded Microsoft's general purpose Xenon CPU as "only beneficial to general applications." Six years of Microsoft dominance on and Sony appears to be building PS4 to a PC spec. Even if the specs are identical to Durango, PS4 will undoubtedly pack more power so long as Microsoft stick with Kinect. Microsoft are counting on their patents and unique technologies beating raw power, and they'll try to make it to market first too, even if they might not make it to E3. THE NEXT WAVE Shortly after GDC, Microsoft laughed off the idea of a next generation Xbox at June's annual E3 showcase. "For us," said their statement. "2012 is all about Xbox 360, and it's the best year ever for Xbox 360. While we appreciate all the interest in our long-range plans, we can confirm that there will be no talk of new Xbox hardware at E3 or anytime soon." Our sources suggest otherwise, and many developers are working towards an E3 debut for their next-generation software whether Microsoft and Sony are ready or not. Arkham City makes the most of the Unreal 3 engine. Imagine what Rocksteady could do with next-gen middleware Regardless of whether the next Xbox makes it to E3, the arrival of those Durango devkits is the starting gun for the next generation and once again Microsoft have beaten Sony out of the gate by getting hardware into developers' hands first. Sony keep denying any possibility of PS4 at E3 2012 too, but if they don't move fast Microsoft could roll into June's LA showcase with dozens of next-generation exclusives from third parties. When Epic show that first Unreal 4 demo they'll only have one console platform to talk about - call it Durango, call it 720, call it what you like, but if Microsoft move fast it might be the only game in town. DEVELOPER SUPPORT Is the next console generation the last console generation? In the first week of March this year developers from the world of consoles, PC and mobile gathered to network and share knowledge at San Francisco's Games Developers' Conference. You only had to visit any party or listen for long enough to any conversation and you'd have soon heard someone questioning the future of consoles. Former DICE general manager Ben Cousins claimed consoles were already on their way out. "I'm talking about something that has a significantly smaller market share with no sign of return," he said. "Mobile devices are the disruptive technologies that are going to cut a slice from the Western console market." GTA V is one of the last big games of this generation, and does showcase what 360 is still capable of But for every independent developer prepared to write traditional consoles off, there was amainstream developer working on the kinds of next generation console projects that would be totally impossible on a mobile platform. As of March 2012, Starbreeze, Splash Damage, Crytek, Epic, Ready At Dawn, Bethesda, Lionhead, Rockstar, Infinity Ward, Remedy, Respawn, Blue Castle and Visceral are all confirmed to be working on next-generation platforms, and are busily recruiting new staff just for the job. Before swiftly deleting all related comments from his Twitter timeline, Crytek's Sean Tracy had tweeted he was "seeing some CryENGINE licensee videos" - soexpect a number of next generation games to be powered by CryENGINE 3. Meanwhile, Epic'sMark Rein boasted GDC's behind closed doors Unreal 4 demo was "blowing people away." Rein revealed last year's "Unreal 3.99" Samaritan demo took a hefty ten times the 360's power to run, and promised Epic would be pushing the hardware manufacturers to deliver true next generation hardware. "We really like the home console experience and we really like iPad gaming," Rein told CVG. "We like all these gaming experiences and we don't think consumers want them to go away. The only way they're going away is if they don't stay true to what they are. The console gaming experience is about delivering something that's way out past the bleeding edge. If you don't stretch far enough, you don't just have enough of a difference to make people want to take the leap with you... it all falls down. But I don't think that's going to happen - I think the console guys are going to blow us all away."

I checked but didn't see a thread so lock if old.

[stalker]

I think I have read the "16 core on day one" before

[Krev]

Sony keep denying any possibility of PS4 at E3 2012 too, but if they don't move fast Microsoft could roll into June's LA showcase with dozens of next-generation exclusives from third parties.

Pretty sure it's old because I recognise that quote. Still just as ridiculous.

[amar212]

Former DICE general manager Ben Cousins claimed consoles were already on their way out. "I'm talking about something that has a significantly smaller market share with no sign of return," he said. "Mobile devices are the disruptive technologies that are going to cut a slice from the Western console market."

Not this crap again.

[bigtroyjon]

Old

Just CVG talking about this info we already heard about.

[gofreak]

It seems like a compilation of their own previous rumours and other commentary. I'm not sure there's any new rumour in there as such.

[Durante]

I'm almost certain it won't have 16 cores. It may well have 16 threads though.

[dragonelite]

There was that guy in the ign ps4 rumor thread that said microsoft is going back to drawing board to get more power and sony went also back to the drawing board but to decrease power. I hope both or in the same range and not one sticking out above the other.

[saunderez]

Not this crap again.

I love how they always say mobile devices are going to kill the console market but never the handheld market which they're actually competing with.

[onQ123]

Pretty sure it's old because I recognise that quote. Still just as ridiculous.

the CVG article is new

[Backfoggen]

The devkit may have 16 cores, but I doubt the final console will.

[Coolwhip]

Is number of cores the new bits?

[Bluemercury]

16 core console.....right lol

[ShinUltramanJ]

Looking forward to seeing more games from EA, UBI Soft, 2K, Bethesda, and Actvision. I guess anyone not in the high roller club will move to iOS.

[bigtroyjon]

Is number of cores the new bits?

There is no new info

[Coolwhip]

There is no new info

Meant like 8-bit 16-bit

[tkscz]

Think we been over the 16 core thing. Quad core with 4-way SMT. Makes 16 logical cores. Not saying it's true, but I am saying that it isn't impossible.

[Thunder Monkey]

Generalized confusion about cores and threads.

Most of these guys probably shouldn't be asking these questions or they should be asking someone else.

[Sephiroth503]

Meant like 8-bit 16-bit

Durango gonna be Jaguar-64bit style with the powah!!!

[bigtroyjon]

Meant like 8-bit 16-bit

my bad

[ThoseDeafMutes]

PS3 is considerably more powerful than 360, with an 8-core custom IBM Cell CPU. In the PS3, one core is locked out to improve manufacturing yields, and another is reserved for the operating system, but that still leaves PS3 with double the 360's processing power on paper.

This is an extremely misleading quote.

[EricDiesel]

I'm almost certain it won't have 16 cores. It may well have 16 threads though.

Yeah, really. 16 actual cores was bullshit months ago and is still bullshit now. Not gonna happen, unless this fucker is going to be $699 minimum.

[dragonelite]

Yeah, really. 16 actual cores was bullshit months ago and is still bullshit now. Not gonna happen, unless this fucker is going to be $699 minimum.

Not sure about that really.
Depends how fast are those cores and what kind they are.

This is specialized hardware so yeah 16 actual cores doesn't seems that strange.
But i think devs rather want a 4 Core beast with 16 physical threads then a cpu with 16 slower cores.

[Krev]

Looking forward to seeing more games from EA, UBI Soft, 2K, Bethesda, and Actvision. I guess anyone not in the high roller club will move to iOS.

Industry crash in 5...4...3...

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Man watch these consoles cost as much as high end PCs..Ridiculous! Xbox 360 was cool at 400$...

[-MB-]

Not sure about that really. Depends how fast are those cores and what kind they are. This is specialized hardware so yeah 16 actual cores doesn't seems that strange. But i think devs rather want a 4 Core beast with 16 physical threads then a cpu with 16 slower cores.

Who says that slow 16 core can't have threads as well?

[Durante]

I think that PS3 vs. 360 showed that 3rd party devs generally prefer fewer, more complex, cores over many simple ones. I'd love it if they went with 16 real (somewhat simpler) cores, but I feel like hardware threads being misreported as cores is much more likely.

[Backfoggen]

16 cores with half a thread on every core so 8 cores effectively.

[EvilDick34]

I will never pay for a console over 250 dollars, mark my word. It sounds like Microsoft and Sony do not care if these consoles launch at 500 dollars and up, ridiculous.

[Captain Tuttle]

I will never pay for a console over 250 dollars, mark my word.

Pack it up people, the next generation is over!

[Relix]

I will never pay for a console over 250 dollars, mark my word. It sounds like Microsoft and Sony do not care if these consoles launch at 500 dollars and up, ridiculous.

Is that adjusted to inflation?

[PaulLFC]

Even if you had a 16-core processor in your gaming PC there are currently no games built to use it, but games for the next Xbox could put all sixteen cores to work on day one for a level of performance far in excess of current gaming PCs. It's a ridiculous amount of power for a games machine - too much power, even. But remember, Kinect 2 could chew up four whole cores tracking multiple players right down to their fingertips, so it'll need a lot of power. Sixteen cores would still leave more processing power than the next Xbox will ever need, even with Kinect's demands.

So which one is it?

[Log4Girlz]

Durango is going to have massive biceps.

[Yopis]

I will never pay for a console over 250 dollars, mark my word. It sounds like Microsoft and Sony do not care if these consoles launch at 500 dollars and up, ridiculous.

Vita is in your price range then.

[monome]

I will never pay for a console over 250 dollars, mark my word.

Huhuh

Pack it up people, the next generation is over!

yep

Is that adjusted to inflation?

last console he bought was SNES.

In short :
EvilDick34
Please, don't feed the troll.

[Majanew]

The article is wrong about Battlefield 3 being sub-HD on 360. It's still 1280x720. Thin black horizontal lines were added to the top and bottom, so the image displayed is still 720p. Heck, a majority of Blu-ray movies aren't 1080p then since 2.35:1/2.4:1 adds huge black bars. :P

[shinobi602]

I will never pay for a console over 250 dollars, mark my word. It sounds like Microsoft and Sony do not care if these consoles launch at 500 dollars and up, ridiculous.

lol

[Rhazer Fusion]

Man watch these consoles cost as much as high end PCs..Ridiculous! Xbox 360 was cool at 400$...

Yep, I'm predicting overpriced consoles and overpriced games. The industry imo isn't ready for next generation yet. People are complaining about game prices and DLC now. You ain't seen nothing yet.

[JGS]

It's interesting how so many articles have been so hopeful of the Xbox successor and downgrading the competition. Almost reminds me of the PS3 anticipation.

The price is going to be key on this one and it makes me think there will be 2 radically different SKU's out there. Microsoft is not going to lose a lot of money on this thing.

[Krappadizzle]

Pretty much sums up how I feel. I'll believe it when I see it.

[NinjaBoiX]

I will never pay for a console over 250 dollars, mark my word. It sounds like Microsoft and Sony do not care if these consoles launch at 500 dollars and up, ridiculous.

Really? You'd be lucky to grab a Wii now, 5 years later, for that kind of money. And also, mark my word(s) didn't really work in that context.

Anyway, Sony and MS will make a loss again per console, and next-gen will be $500-600+.

Mark my words.

;P

[Haunted]

So many articles about the next generation, fueling the anticipation and hype for new hardware and new games - and both MS and Sony are actually not going to show anything new at E3?

It seems ridiculous at this point. All people seem to talk about is the new stuff, not PS3 or 360.

[gaming_noob]

I'm ready to pay 500-600 for this thing if it is indeed going to be the most powerful.

[Nibel]

I'm ready to pay 500-600 for this thing if it is indeed going to be the most powerful.

SMH

Topic: Needs more cores

[yankeehater]

Does anyone know how XBOX360 dev kits compared to the consoles final specs?

[Yopis]

This is an extremely misleading quote.

Agree and no mention of 360 having the better gpu. Seems like a backhanded ps4 hype article in disguise to me. Hope all the new consoles are nice. Consumers dont need this garbage for the sake of page views. Wont be buying all consoles next gen again. Its pc and new xbox or ps4 for me.

[antonz]

16 core? rofl

[J-Rzez]

If the games show the powah im fine with a $500 price of entry. I dont care about kinect and bluray is going to be included in both most likely which was one reason i was day one with the ps3. I transitioned as mainly a pc gamer but if there are exclusive console games ill buy one. Thus most likely ill be.there for the ps4 as they have a lot of quality devs where you can only get their games on a sony machine. If ms can do this as well id be there perhaps year one then pending on console quality and reliability.

[joshwaan]

You know what 16 Cores sounds great and all, but I'd rather have 6 to 8 Cores with a nice clock speed with heaps of Threads :)

Also don't care for Kinect but is MS thinks adding more cores in better for Kinect all for it as some games that don't use Kinect will take advantage of the extra Powa!! :P

[Brettison]

16 cores with half a thread on every core so 8 cores effectively.

Hellz the higher end Ivy Bridge chips can do 2 threads per core. The high end quad core chips do 8 threads. These can barely do a half thread per core, and take 16 cores to get to 8 threads....