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KalBalboa
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:50 PM)
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This could potentially be the only major difference in 720 versus PS4, when those two launch (which is likely to be less than six months apart).


I don't think Microsoft wants to go head to head with Sony with an even start in the next generation. But, if you had an Xbox that was half the price of the rival PlayStation? Suddenly you've got a major advantage when people are deciding between the two.
PsychoRaven
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by flyinpiranha

Since when does a smartphone need a data plan to work? Last I checked I used Wifi almost everywhere. It's not a "kind of need". They subsidize the price of equipment with subscriptions.

Why are people "stupid" who do this? It's another option for people. Why are they "stupid" to do this again? We don't even know what the additional services are and right now there's barely a game price difference in price.

It doesn't need a data plan but you damn well need the phone service. Or do you just buy your cellphones and not buy any service?
UberTag
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by UberTag

I'm doing some digging right now to assess whether or not this offer will be matched via the online Microsoft Store retail site. Either next week or shortly thereafter.
Should hear back shortly.

I can confirm this deal will be for brick & mortar MS Stores only.
It will not be available on the online Microsoft Store website.

For now. ;)

I wonder what date Nintendo is launching the Wii U this fall... hmmm...
Last edited by UberTag; 05-02-2012 at 05:55 PM.
elcranky
Banned
(05-02-2012, 05:52 PM)

Originally Posted by mclaren777

This bundle sounds like it's aimed at people who are bad at math.

LOL, at the self-ownage in this post. It is a fantastic deal based on the math. It was great before the addition of extra 1 year warranty, which only made it better. Now if you don't like that bundle of services and/or want to invest your time, which absolutely has a significant monetary cost unless you are 12, to source better deals on the individual components, the math changes a little.
Castef
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by mclaren777

This bundle sounds like it's aimed at people who are bad at math.

If you put this on the simple "math" discussion... well... you are completely wrong.

People would not be attracted to this because the total payment is cheap or such.

People would subscribe this because maybe they do not want (or can't) pay 300 usd at once for the console, yet they can afford this payment model.
watership
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by zlatko

Too bad it isn't just dropping the console to $99.99. I'd be all over that. :P

$99 4gb at E3, or I'll eat my hat.
The Albatross
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by matics

How reliable are these guys? That's a ridiculous price.

Yeah, the Verge is a reliable site. Bunch of people from Engadget and others broke off from AOL to go to VOX media, and started the Verge. Likewise, a bunch of people broke from Joystiq, Kotaku, and other sites, to form Polygon via VOX (formerly VOX Games / TheVerge.com/gaming).

-- mroe to the topic tho --

This is a legit story, but... it's also crazy. Crazy because I cannot see why people would buy this. I also don't think that the cell phone analogy works because the industries are different. Generally, phones have always been associated with service agreements, becuase you were tied to service contracts and -- in the old days -- phone numbers weren't transferable. A lot of that carried over to the cell phone industry and subsidized prices made sense because you were likely to already be under an agreement with the carrier.

With the 360, it's a consumer device, at least, ti seems like a consumer electronic device more like an appliance than a cell phone. To me, this sounds like financing your TV through your cable TV provider, or financing your washing machine through your municipal water company... It sounds crazy. Especially when the price works out worse in the long run. This just seems so bizarre, also considering we're at the end of this generation and prices are going to go down, so who wants to lock themselves into a 2-year contract for aging hardware.. I just don't get it?

I'm really worried that this is an introduction to the future. That the next MS console will be $300 subsidized and $500 unsubsidized or something crazy.


Originally Posted by watership

$99 4gb at E3, or I'll eat my hat.


This story effectively kills any chance of that. Why buy a $99 360 and then finance $15/mo for 2 years, versus just ... buying a $99 360.
Last edited by The Albatross; 05-02-2012 at 06:00 PM.
faceless007
AAA ETHER
(05-02-2012, 05:54 PM)
I don't see the big deal. It's only $40 more, and for some people it makes more sense to stagger that amount over 2 years than pay more up front. You know, exactly the same principle that all credit and loans work on.
Castef
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(05-02-2012, 05:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shambles

So if you don't have the money to buy a console the answer is to spend even MORE money on one with a contract an a termination fee? Welcome to bizzaro world.

Do this: try to understand what we are talking about (expecially that "termination fee" thingie), then come back and we'll discuss. :)
elcranky
Banned
(05-02-2012, 05:56 PM)

Originally Posted by bigdaddygamebot

You know that you only pay the termination fee if you cancel your service during the time period that the contract is active, right?




But those people are also paying for more than just XBL for a month. They are also subsidizing the purchase of their XBox. A shiny, brand new Xbox with a big harddrive and Kinect thrown in.

(I'm not saying the pricing isn't fucked. It's pretty ridiculous.)

Their concept is sound however.

Sigh, the pricing is actually very good. Put it this way, MS is LOSING money on this deal compared to the same bundle purchased seperately. They are losing because MS' cost of capital is greater than the implied interest in the finance agreement.
alphaNoid
Banned
(05-02-2012, 05:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by HomerSimpson-Man

Hmmm....the equivalent of phone contract subsidized style pricing might just work for people.

I agree, while not for me I think this kind of lower entry point pay over time model could really do well in the console space. Especially since MS will bundle in their Live services and cable TV content as well.

Not sure how this will pan out, which is probably why they'll test the water in the MS stores.


Originally Posted by watership

$99 4gb at E3, or I'll eat my hat.

An announcement like this would steal the show and take thunder away from the Wii-U without having to worry about hinting/announcing Durango. I could see it happening, but only for one SKU.
Last edited by alphaNoid; 05-02-2012 at 05:59 PM.
Vanillalite
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:57 PM)
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Going straight off of MSRP...

$99 x 1 = $99 (console price up front + 2 year warranty)
$15 x 24 = $360 (monthly fee for 2 years + live gold included)
Total = $459

$300 x 1 = $300 (4 gig Kinect Bundle)
$60 x 2 = $120 (2 years of Gold @ MSRP)
$25 + $25 = $50 (price for an extra year warranty on the system + kinect sensor)
Total = $470

So from MS view point of purely MSRP and not counting sales the pay as you go is actually cheaper. It's hardly the "sucker" deal it seems to be at 1st.

Problem is it's a bad combo for people in the know because nobody around here pays MSRP for Live, and basically nobody around here wants a 4 gig system (unless it's a replacement and they have an existing HDD).

You aren't actually paying any more in the PAYG plan though in terms of straight MS MSRP Value of their current product line (at their current pricing).
Chacranajxy
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by faceless007

I don't see the big deal. It's only $40 more, and for some people it makes more sense to stagger that amount over 2 years than pay more up front. You know, exactly the same principle that all credit and loans work on.

Right, and one shouldn't be taking out a loan to buy a game system, because that would be fucking stupid.

A game system is not that important. If you can't afford it, don't buy it.
Chacranajxy
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by elcranky

Sigh, the pricing is actually very good. Put it this way, MS is LOSING money on this deal compared to the same bundle purchased seperately. They are losing because MS' cost of capital is greater than the implied interest in the finance agreement.

I wonder how many people would actually buy all the stuff in the bundle, if it weren't forced upon you in the contract. And I genuinely mean that "I wonder," because while I would imagine the answer is "not many"... who knows?



and sorry for double posting :(
Cerebral Assassin
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(05-02-2012, 05:59 PM)
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So hopefully this is a PSP Go- type test for MS, its a good way to release a expensive machine at a price that doesn't scare the mass market.
faceless007
AAA ETHER
(05-02-2012, 05:59 PM)

Originally Posted by Chacranajxy

Right, and one shouldn't be taking out a loan to buy a game system, because that would be fucking stupid.

A game system is not that important. If you can't afford it, don't buy it.

I assume you feel the same way about everyone who puts a console purchase on a credit card and doesn't pay it off in full next month.

If no one did that, how many fewer consoles do you think would have been sold this generation?
bigdaddygamebot
(05-02-2012, 05:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by elcranky

Sigh, the pricing is actually very good. Put it this way, MS is LOSING money on this deal compared to the same bundle purchased seperately. They are losing because MS' cost of capital is greater than the implied interest in the finance agreement.

Don't get me wrong. I've done the math.

I just think Microsoft could afford to lose MORE money on the package based on the potential revenue they could get from having a really impressive penetration percentage in North American homes. (Like...PS2 penetration)

They make up what they lost on the package from the secondary and tertiary revenue streams off XBL.
flyinpiranha
Member
(05-02-2012, 05:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoRaven

It doesn't need a data plan but you damn well need the phone service. Or do you just buy your cellphones and not buy any service?

Dataplans are the only thing they really fuck you with though. The phone itself and that functionality is obviously a requirement. It's like bitching about needing electricity for the 360. You need that, you don't need Live. Same with cell phones, you need the phone service, you don't "need" the data plan.
UberTag
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(05-02-2012, 06:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chacranajxy

A game system is not that important. If you can't afford it, don't buy it.

Neither is an iPhone.
And yet Apple sold 33 million iPhones last quarter using just such a payment scheme... often purchased by people who can't afford them.

Hmmm...
blurredvision
Member
(05-02-2012, 06:00 PM)

Originally Posted by lowrider007

And?, you get what you pay for, having a mobile contract isn't just about buying a fancy phone monthly, you also get free minutes, data, texts etc, the service plan is very important.

So? My analogy still applies.

XBOX 360 -> smartphone
Live Gold -> wireless service

You can still use a smartphone without wireless service, you can still use a 360 without Gold service. We're discussing price and the economies of this type of paid contract, not services and what they offer.
Chacranajxy
Member
(05-02-2012, 06:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by faceless007

I assume you feel the same way about everyone who puts a console purchase on a credit card and doesn't pay it off in full next month.

Yes, I do.
mclaren777
Banned
(05-02-2012, 06:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Castef

If you put this on the simple "math" discussion... well... you are completely wrong.

Am I missing something?

Option #1:
$299 for the hardware
$120 for Gold LIVE
$419 total price

Option #2:
$99 for the hardware
$360 for the contract
$459 total price

Besides, if you actually thought Gold LIVE was worth having, you'd buy two years on Amazon for $80 instead of $120. Furthermore, I'm not convinced that Kinect is really the value-add that some analysts claim it is.
Last edited by mclaren777; 05-02-2012 at 06:03 PM.
Vanillalite
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(05-02-2012, 06:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by mclaren777

Am I missing something?

Option #1:
$299 for the hardware
$120 for Gold LIVE
$419 total price

Option #2:
$99 for the hardware
$360 for the contract
$459 total price

Option 1 = 1 year warranty
Option 2 = 2 year warranty
faceless007
AAA ETHER
(05-02-2012, 06:03 PM)

Originally Posted by Chacranajxy

Yes, I do.

I hope you realize that if consoles were restricted to those who could do that, far fewer people would buy them and the industry would be a in a less healthy state.
MightyHedgehog
Welcome to the Wasteland.
I hope you're wearing your flak vest!
(05-02-2012, 06:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by mclaren777

Am I missing something?

Option #1:
$299 for the hardware
$120 for Gold LIVE
$419 total price

Option #2:
$99 for the hardware
$360 for the contract
$459 total price

Most people think about how much now. Not over two years. With that in mind, option #2 is $115 instead of $459, which makes it a better* deal than $419 now. Everyone else who can save or can stand to wait as long as they need to in order to buy all that they get upfront with this deal can do so.
Last edited by MightyHedgehog; 05-02-2012 at 06:09 PM.
Jhriad
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(05-02-2012, 06:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by UberTag

Anyone that jumps on this deal will likely not own an Xbox 360 already despite the fact that it came out 6 1/2 YEARS AGO.

Given the frequency of 360 hardware failures over those six and a half years & people looking to buy additional systems for another room it's hardly impossible that some portion of the potential consumers for this deal would be previous (or even current 360 owners). [Edit: See: Bumblebeetuna's post below] People can rationalize a payment system like this into "seeming" to be less than RRP even when doing some simple math and research would tell you otherwise. It's how businesses like QVC, HSN, and R-A-C exist.

If someone were to take that $99 and save $15 a month they'd have $369 saved by the time the next Xbox is getting ready to launch.

All that said I wasn't implying the consumers of this contracted 360 would care about the next console at all. I was merely pointing out another group of consumers that would be unlikely to jump at the deal (for several obvious reasons). Well informed consumers are likely to be part of the enthusiast crowd (since they're the majority of the individuals that would actually care enough to inform themselves) as well as (I would hope) thoughtful enough to consider the total cost of such a contract before jumping in blind like many people would. These aren't exactly people the deal is appealing to.
Last edited by Jhriad; 05-02-2012 at 06:17 PM.
metareferential
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(05-02-2012, 06:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Biggzy

Expect this for the next Xbox as well.

That would be a very, very smart move.

They could get away with a 499$-priced (or anything in this range) console and still make it seem cheap to the public.

I don't mind buying consoles at full price, but it could be a good solution after all.
krae_man
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(05-02-2012, 06:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by mclaren777

Am I missing something?

Option #1:
$299 for the hardware
$120 for Gold LIVE
$419 total price

Option #2:
$99 for the hardware
$360 for the contract
$459 total price

Besides, if you actually thought Gold LIVE is worth having, you'd buy two years on Amazon for $80 instead of $120.

So it's a ripoff because things go on sale? Terrible logic.

You're also forgetting the extended warranty being included which is a $50 value.
mclaren777
Banned
(05-02-2012, 06:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Brettison

Option 1 = 1 year warranty
Option 2 = 2 year warranty

Extended warranties are definitely proof that some people are bad at math.


Originally Posted by krae_man

So it's a ripoff because you things go on sale? Terrible logic.

See above, especially given that the most common Xbox 360 failure is still covered by a free three-year warranty.
Last edited by mclaren777; 05-02-2012 at 06:10 PM.
Speedymanic
Banned
(05-02-2012, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by UberTag

Think about what you just said for a second.

Anyone that jumps on this deal will likely not own an Xbox 360 already despite the fact that it came out 6 1/2 YEARS AGO.

Why would these same people be upset about not having "the next Xbox" (still 12-18 months from release) right away due to having committed to a 2-year contract on this one?

Shut up and stop talking sense, that's why.

...

Seriously, this is an amazing deal for those who can't afford to buy a 360 outright. MS catering to all incomes, Sony and Ninty could learn a thing or two from MS.
krae_man
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(05-02-2012, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by mclaren777

Extended warranties are definitely proof that some people are bad at math.

See above.

Face it dude you are wrong on this. If you don't like contracts fine, don't sign up for this one. Still doesn't make it a bad deal.
Captain Tuttle
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(05-02-2012, 06:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by mclaren777

especially given that the most common Xbox 360 failure is still covered by a free three-year warranty.

Not the Slims, they only come with a one-year warranty.
Double D
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(05-02-2012, 06:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by AndrewDean84xX

$460 for a 360, Kinnect and 2 years of Live. Not exactly a horrible deal for the casuals.

Hard to disagree, considering I just paid $450 for that Star Wars 360 bundle.
The Albatross
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(05-02-2012, 06:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by blurredvision

So? My analogy still applies.

XBOX 360 -> smartphone
Live Gold -> wireless service

You can still use a smartphone without wireless service, you can still use a 360 without Gold service. We're discussing price and the economies of this type of paid contract, not services and what they offer.

The analogy breaks down in that they are two separate industries with different services and expectations from the provider. Why not extend this to more? How about washing machines? They do not work without municipal water supply or well water service which relies on your electric company. Subsidized washing machines. How about ovens, subsidized ovens from the gas company?

It's not normal.

Plus, underscoring all of this, is that the value added to your mobile phone by your wireless service is much greater relative to the product than the value added by X-Box Live Gold to a 360. The core functionality of your phone (ie, to make calls) breaks down without service, while the core functionality of your gaming console (ie, to play games) works fine.
Pociask
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(05-02-2012, 06:12 PM)
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I don't understand the sentiment that this is some kind of evil loan scheme by Microsoft(or is that Micro$oft) to burden people with things they can't afford.

You're entering a service agreement for 2 years. This is extremely common in the cell phone and cable industry. It's also basically the entire basis of leasing automobiles(except for at the end of the payment period here, you keep the 360 - you don't get to keep the car).

I have seen people complain that smart phones are not accurately priced, because the price does not include the contract. I have NOT seen people say the the phone manufacturers are evil schemers who are trying to saddle poor consumers with debt. Nor have I seen people say LOL only morons would buy the iPhone with a service contract, they ought to save their pennies until they can buy an unlocked iPhone.

This seems like a pretty good deal to me for a lot of people who don't own a 360 and want to play online.
watership
Member
(05-02-2012, 06:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by mclaren777

Extended warranties are definitely proof that some people are bad at math.

See above, especially given that the most common Xbox 360 failure is still covered by a free three-year warranty.

I'm pretty sure the 3 year warranty only applies to the old 360, not the redesign.
flyinpiranha
Member
(05-02-2012, 06:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by metareferential

That would be a very, very smart move.

They could get away with a 499$-priced (or anything in this range) console and still make it seem cheap to the public.

I don't mind buying consoles at full price, but it could be a good solution after all.

I agree. I'll pay full price (depending on how they do their XBL service, I might be out altogether) but I can easily see this as a great option for people who don't want to or can't just spend $500+ (games, accessories, etc ... ) on a launch system.

Personally, I'd much rather subsidize my $700 phone with a data plan.
Jhriad
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(05-02-2012, 06:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by AndrewDean84xX

$460 for a 360, Kinnect and 2 years of Live. Not exactly a horrible deal for the casuals.

Why would a casual consumer want 2 years of Live? If it's just for streaming services like Netflix other devices already provide the ability to use those services without a monthly fee.
Bumblebeetuna
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(05-02-2012, 06:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by PsychoRaven

Wow. That has to be the stupidest Idea that I've ever heard. So I'm sure plenty of idiots will fall for it and it will be a success.

It's going to be a massive success so I don't really see why it is stupid. Or why people have to be "idiots" to be attracted to it. Maybe you aren't the intended audience, oh well.

I have a 360 in my gaming room but have been thinking about getting one for the kids in their entertainment room and would love to get a Kinect bundle. At $300 it's kind of pricey for me to pull the trigger. At a $100 starting price that's much better and $15 a month is nothing if I am planning on having a Live subscription on it anyway.

At the end of the day you're talking about $460 for this deal versus $420 if I went in and bought a new one in a store. So for the convenience of spreading the cost out, you'd pay a $40 premium. That is pennies compared to what it costs you at rent to own places. That's why this thing will be massively successful. It immediately craps on any rent to own establishment where you pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars over retail. Poor Hulk Hogan.

And that is not even considering the potential bonus streaming services they mention. That makes the price even better.
The Albatross
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(05-02-2012, 06:14 PM)
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If Microsoft threw in a monthly game from XBL into this, either Arcade or one of the XBL digital downloads, I'd jump on it TOMORROW.
mclaren777
Banned
(05-02-2012, 06:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Captain Tuttle

Not the Slims, they only come with a one-year warranty.

Originally Posted by watership

I'm pretty sure the 3 year warranty only applies to the old 360, not the redesign.

Oh, I didn't realize that.
alphaNoid
Banned
(05-02-2012, 06:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by metareferential

That would be a very, very smart move.

They could get away with a 499$-priced (or anything in this range) console and still make it seem cheap to the public.

I don't mind buying consoles at full price, but it could be a good solution after all.

The iPad business model for next gen consoles? Hmmm, possible.
charsace
Accidental Member
(05-02-2012, 06:16 PM)
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Who didn't see this coming? MS has been trying to get a set-top box into homes since the 90's. It took them a while to get things like HBOgo and netflix on the service, but the xbox is a legit media option.
Captain Tuttle
Member
(05-02-2012, 06:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Pociask

I don't understand the sentiment that this is some kind of evil loan scheme by Microsoft(or is that Micro$oft) to burden people with things they can't afford.

You're entering a service agreement for 2 years. This is extremely common in the cell phone and cable industry. It's also basically the entire basis of leasing automobiles(except for at the end of the payment period here, you keep the 360 - you don't get to keep the car).

I have seen people complain that smart phones are not accurately priced, because the price does not include the contract. I have NOT seen people say the the phone manufacturers are evil schemers who are trying to saddle poor consumers with debt. Nor have I seen people say LOL only morons would buy the iPhone with a service contract, they ought to save their pennies until they can buy an unlocked iPhone.

This seems like a pretty good deal to me for a lot of people who don't own a 360 and want to play online.

This is Neo....forget it.

Could you imagine what would happen if Sony figured out how to put PS3 backward compatibility on the PS4 behind a contract subscription paywall?
unomas
Banned
(05-02-2012, 06:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Agent Unknown

A cell phone style service contract for a video game console? Oh goody, where do I sign up?!

Haha, MS has some bad bad visions for the future of gaming. 10 year Xbox customer, 9 year live subscriber and I'm on the edge of jumping ship next gen. I do not like where MS is taking gaming, it's just one awful thing after another. They're getting arrogant in a completely different way, but arrogant and bad for the industry.
Speedymanic
Banned
(05-02-2012, 06:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jhriad

Why would a casual consumer want 2 years of Live? If it's just for streaming services like Netflix other devices already provide the ability to use those services without a monthly fee.

Why wouldn't they want 2 years of live? It makes sense for MS to do this, they can introduce casuals to the joys of online gaming and get them suckling on the gold teat for many a year.

Sony must be kicking themselves for not charging for online gaming. Like really, really hard.
KageMaru
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(05-02-2012, 06:17 PM)
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I don't understand why anyone would pick this option this late in the generation.

Then again, I guess anyone dumb enough to fall for this wouldn't really be the type of gamer to buy a next gen system early. Still, this does not sound like a great deal considering the price of the system is likely to drop this year some time.

This also makes me wonder if this changes MS' plans for price drops this and next year.
Speedymanic
Banned
(05-02-2012, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Albatross

If Microsoft threw in a monthly game from XBL into this, either Arcade or one of the XBL digital downloads, I'd jump on it TOMORROW.

Doing this would be bad for the service as people would end up spending less and waiting for whatever game they want to be available for free.
krae_man
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(05-02-2012, 06:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by UberTag

Neither is an iPhone.
And yet Apple sold 33 million iPhones last quarter using just such a payment scheme... often purchased by people who can't afford them.

Hmmm...

Now that is crazy talk. iPhones are necessities, you know that.
Speedymanic
Banned
(05-02-2012, 06:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by KageMaru

I don't understand why anyone would pick this option this late in the generation.

Then again, I guess anyone dumb enough to fall for this wouldn't really be the type of gamer to buy a next gen system early. Still, this does not sound like a great deal considering the price of the system is likely to drop this year some time.

This also makes me wonder if this changes MS' plans for price drops this and next year.

Why does the PS2 continue to sell?

Consumers, how do they work?

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