[Magnus]

His comments don't seem to address the real problem/pain; the claw hand required for normal human hands to hold the system and mash the L button when any degree of control.

[-MB-]

If it were up to me i'd prefer to play most of my shooters with a keyboard and mouse. There are three usb slots on my 360, why i can't i plug them in there and play reach with them?

Go take it up with MS i guess?

[Marlowe89]

It only took me an hour, not even, for me to comfortably adjust to the controls. I haven't had a problem with them since - even when I play for hours on end. The man is absolutely correct.

[Kai Dracon]

Oh wow. I didn't think people would take so easily to touch controls as a replacement for controllers but here we are. The trashing of dual analog and the praising of touch controls. The future is here and I am obviously out of touch (no pun intended). I went from the joystick to the d-pad and the d-pad to the analog stick and the analog stick to dual analog and I loved the improvements each time. Going from dual analog to touch controls though I am not ready to do.

It's misleading to make this sound like "touch controls" in the smartphone / iOS sense.

This is nothing new; stylus-based shooters have been seen on the DS for years. It's not a new idea.

This game just makes the most comprehensive attempt to design a robust game around using the stylus as a mouse for aiming.

[friskykillface]

aren't there like 3 ways to change the controls?


i forget already but i had mine be the move with A,X,Y,B and aim with the control stick , shot with R, really was easy and fun to control


don't really get the complaints

[Vane_MagicCity]

ME3 is designed for dual analog limitations. Other games are not. You don't see anyone beasting on Quake Live with a 360 pad and that's the same reason Kid Icarus doesn't include a dual analog option.

...and this game could have been designed with that in mind too but like other games from Nintendo on the Wii and the DS, you WILL play it their way. Well, you will, I won't.

It's misleading to make this sound like "touch controls" in the smartphone / iOS sense. This is nothing new; stylus-based shooters have been seen on the DS for years. It's not a new idea. This game just makes the most comprehensive attempt to design a robust game around using the stylus as a mouse for aiming.

Stylus based anything = touch controls.

[SpacePirate Ridley]

I have the stand and I think is shit for the game, however its awesome for colors! 3D.
BUT I have no problem with ground controls, in fact i found them perfect (the only thing I would change is that the Pit cant fall a ledge while he is attacking or dodging, like many action platfroming games do).
In fact I think people that used the control pad pro (if it could be used) in multiplayer will get their ass kicked by people using the stylus.
I found worse, more fustrating and boring the flying sections at very high levels though, and I prefer them in games like Star Fox and Sin & Punishment. Apart from having epic movements and action in Kid Icarus, I found the rails sections of those two games much better in a gameplay point of view.

[Truth101]

...and this game could have been designed with that in mind too but like other games from Nintendo on the Wii and the DS, you WILL play it their way. Well, you will, I won't. Stylus based anything = touch controls.

Get out of here.

You want him to change the entire pacing of the game to appease you non-adaptive "gamers"?

[SomewhatGroovy]

If it works how is it half baked.

Execution.

Universally, how many people do you find on threads around here complaining about dual analog?

If I'm self conscious about what my hands are doing while playing a game as a result of discomfort, pain etc, it distracts from the experience. I shouldn't be asked or forced to "adapt". All that should matter is how I adapt to what's on screen, not what's in my hands.

People should be talking about the game but the controls get more attention here. There isn't a single hive mind out there that passed texts messages and decided that a portion of the gaming community should bitch about controls.

It's one thing to say you had absolutely no problems adapting to a games unconventional controls. It's an entirely different matter to say there's nothing wrong with them when other people are contradicting your (general...not you you) opinion that you pass off as facts. And Vice versa, to be fair.

There is no absolute in the matter but to say the controls are controversial and are not universally liked. I would think devs want as many people as possible to enjoy their games though

[Wired All Wrong]

His comments don't seem to address the real problem/pain; the claw hand required for normal human hands to hold the system and mash the L button when any degree of control.

That's where the CPP came in handy for me. Much more comfortable using the ZL button and I didn't have to worry about breaking my systems L button.

[SolarKnight]

Stylus based anything = touch controls.

Except touch controls don't have you using it together with a circle pad/buttons, shoulder buttons, and a d-pad at the same time.

[hardcastlemccormick]

Get out of here. You want him to change the entire pacing of the game to appease you non-adaptive "gamers"?

That's not conducive at all. Why are you questioning their "gamer" status this scare quotes? Why are you accusing them of non-adaptiveness? How on earth will that help make this issue any less polarized? And if the game did have more widespread control issues, why should the game content be built on top of them? It makes no sense.

Again, I loved the controls from Chapter 1. But we can do better than this.

[Ysiadmihi]

...and this game could have been designed with that in mind too but like other games from Nintendo on the Wii and the DS, you WILL play it their way. Well, you will, I won't.

Sorry to hear that fella, but I'm glad Sakurai wasn't willing to compromise the pace of the game for people who can't let go of dual analog. For those who realize how much pointer aiming adds to shooters, it just made it all the better.

[hardcastlemccormick]

...and this game could have been designed with that in mind too but like other games from Nintendo on the Wii and the DS, you WILL play it their way. Well, you will, I won't.

So are you mad at id for not making Quake Live for dual analog? Because that game has less control options than Kid Icarus does.

It's not like the game shipped with absolutely no control options. It's got more than the large majority of games this year, save the PC.

[-MB-]

Still confused by how it's technically impossible to add the dual analogue support.
U can control pit already with the left slider in regular mode, and u can use the slider pad to aim when u use the facebuttons to control Pit.
I don't see any technical hurdle to patch the game in combining those 2 for proper DA on the CPP.

[SomewhatGroovy]

Sorry to hear that fella, but I'm glad Sakurai wasn't willing to compromise the pace of the game for people who can't let go of dual analog. For those who realize how much pointer aiming adds to shooters, it just made it all the better.

You're on a completely different argument and seemingly talking to yourself. No one is complaining about the pointer aiming in the shooter section.

The game would have been perfect if it allowed you to pick the stylus in the shooter segments (as it does) and then utilize the second analog for the ground portions. The screen on the 3DS is much too tiny to make wide movements in a large 3D space. Having to make multiple swipes to turn 180 degrees is fucking ridiculous. If anything that is what disrupts this 'pacing' issue.

[Vane_MagicCity]

Except touch controls don't have you using it together with a circle pad/buttons, shoulder buttons, and a d-pad at the same time.

So, the use of other buttons cancels out touch controls?

[SolarKnight]

So, the use of other buttons cancels out touch controls?

Well, when people refer to touch controls like with iOS, they mean that EVERYTHING is controlled with the touch screen, so yeah, pretty big difference.

[Ysiadmihi]

You're on a completely different argument and seemingly talking to yourself. No one is complaining about the pointer aiming in the shooter section.

I don't know if you've noticed or not, but the entire game is a shooter section. I wasn't referring to the flying sections specifically.

[Baller, PhD]

His comments don't seem to address the real problem/pain; the claw hand required for normal human hands to hold the system and mash the L button when any degree of control.

This. It's not that the pointer isn't precise. Obivously it's way more precise than a thumbstick. It's that my hand hurts like a motherfucker after one or two levels.

[RedSwirl]

I think he is right with the Smash Bros. analogy. If Smash were an unknown game and first released today, I can imagine there would be negative reviews and howling on forums about its "stupid, idiotic" control scheme because Smash doesn't work exactly like any other fighting game, or any other platforming game. Problem is, it's difficult to discuss what isn't perfect about Uprising's controls without eliciting an allergic reaction from some folks who may be resistant to anything that deviates from a dual analog stick system on principle alone. Reminds me of the many arguments surrounding Metroid Prime when it first hit, about how it was absurd and shitty because it didn't play exactly like Halo. (C-stick wasn't used for full mouselook style aiming.) Nevermind that Prime wasn't even designed to play like that, and the enemies in the game weren't designed to require those kinds of controls to be fought. I stand behind the idea that KI:U should have included a CCP dual stick mode purely to shut up complaints about it and provide direct contrast between playing it with dual slidepad control and playing it the way the levels (even on foot levels) are designed around the stylus controls.

Having unique controls isn't wrong. Having uncomfortable controls is.

[Vane_MagicCity]

Well, when people refer to touch controls like with iOS, they mean that EVERYTHING is controlled with the touch screen, so yeah, pretty big difference.

Yeah no, that isn't what I mean. I think NSMB Wii used motion controls, do you agree?

[Firestorm]

I only played one level so far, but I don't see what's so hard about the controls if you played Metroid Prime Hunters (a pack-in demo for the original DS even)?

[-MB-]

I only played one level so far, but I don't see what's so hard about the controls if you played Metroid Prime Hunters (a pack-in demo for the original DS even)?

I played that too, and I deemed it too uncomfortable for me to keep playing.
The card never came out of the box ever since.

[linko9]

It's an embarrassment that you simply can't get the CCP in America. I've been trying for months, but I'm not going to pay a 250% markup. Gamespot says they'll have some in July... As a left-hander, this game is really difficult to control. Using the face buttons is just not accurate, and is quite uncomfortable. I guess I can't comment about how well the controls work under optimal circumstances, but I've had a terrible time with them, though I do really like the game overall.

[SomewhatGroovy]

I don't know if you've noticed or not, but the entire game is a shooter section. I wasn't referring to the flying sections specifically.

Your comment was too vague then as the game is split into two different segments each with different controls. I assumed you were speaking of the flying segments because thats the only segment where one could argue that pacing could be compromise.

I just described why ground segment pacing is already compromised and could only be improved. Having to make multiple swipes on a 3 inch (?) screen to view a 3D space is absolutely absurd. It adds nothing to the gameplay or immersion and as such, need not be there. By comparison, I would have just held the second stick left or right until I reached my intended view.

[jetjevons]

ITT the controls worked for me therefore they are fine for everyone.

I've played a few hours and really can't get the hang. Flying and shooting feels like rubbing my head and patting my tummy I'd love second analog support. Not that it matters since I can't even buy a CCP right now.

[Vane_MagicCity]

It's an embarrassment that you simply can't get the CCP in America. I've been trying for months, but I'm not going to pay a 250% markup. Gamespot says they'll have some in July... As a left-hander, this game is really difficult to control. Using the face buttons is just not accurate, and is quite uncomfortable. I guess I can't comment about how well the controls work under optimal circumstances, but I've had a terrible time with them, though I do really like the game overall.

You're obviously just a non adaptive gamer. I just being sarcastic.

Seriously though, Gamestop says they will have the CPP back in stock in 4 days.

[Mlatador]

The man is right.

It DOES take some time getting used to, but then, oh yeah, it's awesome.

Of course you need to experiment a little with the way you hold the 3DS, but that's the problem when you dont have a third hand. I've also heard good things about using a 3DS wheel (the one for MK7), to make holding and reaching the shooting button more comfortable.

[UncleSporky]

Still confused by how it's technically impossible to add the dual analogue support. U can control pit already with the left slider in regular mode, and u can use the slider pad to aim when u use the facebuttons to control Pit. I don't see any technical hurdle to patch the game in combining those 2 for proper DA on the CPP.

We don't have all the details.

My first assumption at that statement was that it's easier to simply treat both sticks as the same thing than receiving inputs from both. The fact that the CPP has to communicate through an IR port might mean slightly slower processing on those inputs that could compromise the speed of the game. An analog stick also requires more in-depth interpretation than buttons...how far the stick has been pressed and which direction of 360 degrees.

More data to work with plus slower communication method plus an already fast-paced, system-taxing game...I could see it happening.

[Leondexter]

So an optional accessory equals your game should have been on a console now? Cool.

It's certainly a point in favor of it, yes.

[SmithnCo]

Sure doesn't look comfy, but must not be a problem if it works for you... I just do this kind of pinky hold, which makes playing comfy for as long of a session as you want: Works well enough for my not-so-big hands.

I do this. Works great. :) Though my pinky rests more near the R trigger.

[Marlowe89]

Sorry to hear that fella, but I'm glad Sakurai wasn't willing to compromise the pace of the game for people who can't let go of dual analog. For those who realize how much pointer aiming adds to shooters, it just made it all the better.

This. So much this.

[linko9]

You're obviously just a non adaptive gamer. I just being sarcastic. Seriously though, Gamestop says they will have the CPP back in stock in 4 days.

Thanks for the heads up, just ordered one.

[Vane_MagicCity]

We don't have all the details. My first assumption at that statement was that it's easier to simply treat both sticks as the same thing than receiving inputs from both. The fact that the CPP has to communicate through an IR port might mean slightly slower processing on those inputs that could compromise the speed of the game. An analog stick also requires more in-depth interpretation than buttons...how far the stick has been pressed and which direction of 360 degrees. More data to work with plus slower communication method plus an already fast-paced, system-taxing game...I could see it happening.

Probably for the same reason Nintendo didn't add traditional controls to other touch and motion controlled games, because they were afraid most people would use those instead.

[Neuromancer]

For flying sections the stylus works great for me. The on foot stuff is a train wreck though, and I use the face buttons for that.

I don't blame him though, the 3DS should have come with a right slide pad.

[mu-chan]

I just described why ground segment pacing is already compromised and could only be improved. Having to make multiple swipes on a 3 inch (?) screen to view a 3D space is absolutely absurd. It adds nothing to the gameplay or immersion and as such, need not be there. By comparison, I would have just held the second stick left or right until I reached my intended view.

I'm assuming that you haven't played the game. The camera isn't controlled with swipes--it's controlled with flicks. With a big enough flick, you can get the camera to spin around 360 degrees or more. That's the beauty of the system: I can send the spinning and stop the reticle anywhere on screen that I want to aim. It's a lot faster than dual analog.

[-MB-]

This. So much this.

Guess Sakurai wants to miss out on all those sales sure.
Which in turn might reduce a chance of any sequel if it doesn't hit their internal targets.
But sure, keep on hating on those who don't feel the same about certain controls than you do.

[Nub]

Your game required a friggin' stand to be bundled with it. No, I'm pretty sure you did it wrong Sakurai.

It didn't require it, and he didn't put it in there because he thought it was wrong, its just how he wanted the game to be played.

If he wanted this game to be played with dual analog sticks, then he wouldn't have included the stand, and it would have cpp controls.

[tkscz]

Am I the only one who used the thumb strap and not the stylus? Using my thumb for the game was just much easier.

[TheLastCandle]

The controls do cramp up my left hand after an hour or so of play, but I shockingly really love them regardless of that. The speed and accuracy are pretty damn great. A cramp is a trade off I'm willing to make to play this game.

A game in this series for Wii U with pointer controls would be to die for.

[SolarKnight]

Yeah no, that isn't what I mean. I think NSMB Wii used motion controls, do you agree?

Ok, in that way, yes. When someone says touch controls, usually what I imagine and see them refer to is something like iOS, touch only.

[linko9]

Am I the only one who used the thumb strap and not the stylus? Using my thumb for the game was just much easier.

Oh shit, I forgot about that! That's how I played MP:Hunters. Too bad mine is across the country right now, but I guess I could rig something up and see if it works.

[Vane_MagicCity]

It didn't require it, and he didn't put it in there because he thought it was wrong, its just how he wanted the game to be played. If he wanted this game to be played with dual analog sticks, then he wouldn't have included the stand, and it would have cpp controls.

So aren't you saying he included the stand because the game needed it to work well with the control scheme he chose?

[mclem]

I went from the joystick to the d-pad and the d-pad to the analog stick and the analog stick to dual analog and I loved the improvements each time. Going from dual analog to touch controls though I am not ready to do.

Did you never go to a *mouse*?

I think people comfortable with using mouse controls are perhaps the ones more inclined to be able to adapt to touch controls.

[UncleSporky]

Probably for the same reason Nintendo didn't add traditional controls to other touch and motion controlled games, because they were afraid most people would use those instead.

I don't see any reason to assume Sakurai would be lying.

[Marlowe89]

Guess Sakurai wants to miss out on all those sales sure. Which in turn might reduce a chance of any sequel if it doesn't hit their internal targets. But sure, keep on hating on those who don't feel the same about certain controls than you do.

Wow. I'm frankly astounded you even posted this.

Quantity over quality is clearly the way to go. It's all about babying non-adaptive gamers in any you can for the sales!

[Vane_MagicCity]

Did you never go to a *mouse*? I think people comfortable with using mouse controls are perhaps the ones more inclined to be able to adapt to touch controls.

I have been using a mouse since Windows 3.1, so 20 years I guess. A mouse has many purposes and I didn't use computers for gaming until Windows 95 and at that time I had been using controllers for well over a decade.

[mclem]

Still confused by how it's technically impossible to add the dual analogue support. U can control pit already with the left slider in regular mode, and u can use the slider pad to aim when u use the facebuttons to control Pit. I don't see any technical hurdle to patch the game in combining those 2 for proper DA on the CPP.

Isn't it more a question of having to rebalance the game around the other control scheme?

[Jintor]

Should've bundled the circlepad pro with it as well