[sangreal]

Because it is. Full voice acting made TOR so much more enjoyable than if it had text-only during quests and cutscenes. But I guess there's people like you that don't like voiced cutsices since they just want to skip them and get to killing those 10 crabs quick.

I enjoyed the voice acting in TOR (at first), but it slows down development, makes it more expensive and less flexible.

[spirity]

disagree. I played EQ for 6 years and first person all the way. then again, their third person camera blew, but... ya know. I still want a new MMO to come out that supports a first person view better again.

Same here. The only time I went to 3rd person in EQ was when I was bored during medding. It was 1st person all the time.

[Cyrano]

Because it is. Full voice acting made TOR so much more enjoyable than if it had text-only during quests and cutscenes. But I guess there's people like you that don't like voiced cutsices since they just want to skip them and get to killing those 10 crabs quick.

I know reading isn't important or anything, but reading does give us the chance to imagine how they might be saying it. You know, room for interpretation. This is the problem with games in general today, they have no idea when to shut the hell up (Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are so immensely successful because they have so little voiced dialogue). I really liked Morrowind because the text was so well-written. Writing in Oblivion and Skryim took a considerable nosedive however.

And really, this is obvious of both screenplays and books. Good writing is about writing about what is interesting, rather than what is mundane. Voice acting in most games refers way too much about the mundane.

[Tokubetsu]

Will check it out when it goes F2P a year later.

[SparkTR]

Outside of that it sounds really really really generic :| I know the Elder Scrolls IP is very strong right now but I don't think the name alone will cut it...

It will if it's F2P.

[Piggus]

Ugh. An awesome Elder Scrolls world and story ruined by terrible traditional MMO gameplay. No realtime combat? No first person? And they say they're trying to also cater to fans of Skyrim... Sorry, but part of the reason why I'm a HUGE fan of Elder Scrolls is the way in which the game immerses you into the world. With this they had an opportunity to do that and still connect you with other people. Instead they didn't attempt anything new, and went with the norm. You know what I also love about Elder Scrolls? The fact that it DOESN'T rely on shitty dice roll point and click chance-based combat. . Thanks for wasting an opportunity to make an awesome ES game, ZeniMax. :/

[Izick]

I just don't get it.

I hear about all this crazy shit going down with EVE Online. Amazing stuff. Things I would have never had believed if you would have told me however many years ago. The gameplay is unique, and the developers basically shoved people into the world and say "it's yours." It just feels like the MMO, or the idea of a persistant world has so much potential...but all these developers are trying to chase WoW. You're never going to beat WoW at its own game. WoW is WoW. Why not try something different or unique? It doesn't have to even be EVE, but why not try to differentiate yourself? This game could have done that. It could have been something truly uniqued that mimics the current TES games gameplay and feel, but instead they went the easiest and safest route, and they are likely going to get no reward for that at all.

[Zefah]

It doesn't sound purely like a theme-park crap-a-thon in the vein of WoW, but the Hero Engine stuff doesn't have me excited. Anyway, I'll definitely keep a cautious eye on it.

[Pinko Marx]

This whole thing is one big giant ball of NOPE. Nothin announced so far is appealing to me.

[Bamelin]

Tentatively interested. DAOC realm vs realm was a really great implementation of pvp .... Lots of fun times.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yup. Still interested, but not enough to care.

[spirity]

I just don't get it. I hear about all this crazy shit going down with EVE Online. Amazing stuff. Things I would have never had believed if you would have told me however many years ago. The gameplay is unique, and the developers basically shoved people into the world and say "it's yours." It just feels like the MMO, or the idea of a persistant world has so much potential...but all these developers are trying to chase WoW. You're never going to beat WoW at its own game. WoW is WoW. Why not try something different or unique? It doesn't have to even be EVE, but why not try to differentiate yourself? This game could have done that. It could have been something truly uniqued that mimics the current TES games gameplay and feel, but instead they went the easiest and safest route, and they are likely going to get no reward for that at all.

It's why these days I can't stand MMO's. The term "creatively bankrupt" is overused, but one that always come to my mind whenever I see yet another WoW clone emerge with one or two interesting features but the rest of the game being just like WoW. Lots of big promises, bold claims and pr about "AAA MMO" but the story always ends the same way - servers closing, changing the business model, limping along on low subs, free to play, or disappearing entirely.

Try to compete with, or clone WoW, and you deserve your fate. The MMO graveyeard is filled with lessons people keep ignoring. The only MMO's worth a shit are the ones offering something different. The only one I've taken seriously in years has been GW2. The rest of them were appalling.

[Buxaroo]

I will simply repost what I said on Hard forums:

This. If these bankrupt subhuman corporate shitforbrains even THINK of going with ANY of the following, it will suck more cock than Sasha Grey and that is a fact:

1. Low IQ "Kill 10 pigs" and come back and get your little pat on the head for being a good little special ed student who needs his hand held quests. No one likes this, and if they do, who gives a shit.

2. Theme park bullshit. We played TES: Skyrim because we played it the way we wanted to play, a giant sandbox, and it worked. There is no reason whatsorever to have a limp dick, bankrupt theme park-based MMO. WoW is the only one to do it right, stop trying to copy them. People are bored with WoW, and they only leave WoW to get away from WoW-type gameplay. So. Stop. Trying. To. Copy. Them. You fucking retards. Skryim works because it's a SANDBOX.

3. Linear progression. No one wants linear progression where we just follow a fucking walkthrough without actually playing the game. None of us want your typical grindfest where we go through the motions to get a piece of armor. No one. And if they do, as I said before, who fucking gives a shit? TES caters to people who like to do it our way, not some pre-defined path.

4. Shitty graphics. And by shitty I mean don't give us none of those pussy excuses along the lines of "Our new graphics system is very sophisticated and our new "Surealism Anime" character design is an attempt to be more coherent to everyone who hasn't played any of the TES games"....which is nothing more than a corpspeak euphemism "we need this game to run on a computer built in 2003 so we get maximum coverage" grade A bullshit. Fuck you. You know, like what they did with SWTOR where they made it look like George Lucas anal raped Clone Wars?

I love MMO's, and I want to see an TES MMO. But I want it exactly as it is NOW, but with MP and a persistent world. I despise most theme park MMOs with an extreme hatred. SWTOR was ruined because of that for me, every other game the same thing. We want dynamic gameplay and a dynamic world. Skyrim did it, they should be able to do it.

But I am a misanthrope and bitter over how other games ended up after hoping they wouldn't, so here's my prediction which I know will be spot on: they will have all of the above that I listed. They will do this because they are bankrupt and they will play it safe like typical dickless wonders always do. And they will fail after the first few months and if they didn't come out as F2P, they will resort to F2P, and then die out a year later. Watch. Only a few companies actually have dicks between their legs, and this company doesn't even have a bulge showing, let alone letting it all hang out.

I've played so many MMO's over the years, and I see the pattern very well. SWTOR was the last time I ever let my fanboism out. I should have known better. Never again. When I see actuall gameplay footage, when I see the actual details of how the game is going to work, then and only then will I start following it.




So, a BIG fuck you.

"Visually it looks like other Hero Engine MMOs like RIFT and SWTOR"

Go fuck myourself. SWTOR looks like shit and plays like shit because of the hero engine. Period.

"It needs to be comfortable for people who are comign in from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players."

Fuck you dickless subhuman. As predicted. Your NOT appealing to Skyrim players. PERIOD. And the shitheads who do play it will get bored and leave anyways. You either go with WHAT works, AKA SANDBOX mode, or you don't fucking make the game. No one wants to play a dumbed down version of Skrim. No one.

[animlboogy]

And really, this is obvious of both screenplays and books. Good writing is about writing about what is interesting, rather than what is mundane. Voice acting in most games refers way too much about the mundane.

Definitely. Even exposition-heavy scenes in great stories can get tedious, and the characters tend to be talking about important, dramatic things. In games... I don't care how well Nolan North reads the line, "the farmer wants you to kill at least ten dickwolves so his fieldhands will return, and as the chosen one it is your sole responsibility to handle such a task."

[Izick]

It's why these days I can't stand MMO's. The term "creatively bankrupt" is overused, but one that always come to my mind whenever I see yet another WoW clone emerge with one or two interesting features but the rest of the game being just like WoW. Lots of big promises, bold claims and pr about "AAA MMO" but the story always ends the same way - servers closing, changing the business model, limping along on low subs, free to play, or disappearing entirely. Try to compete with, or clone WoW, and you deserve your fate. The MMO graveyeard is filled with lessons people keep ignoring. The only MMO's worth a shit are the ones offering something different. The only one I've taken seriously in years has been GW2. The rest of them were appalling.

Totally. I mean that goes for almost anything. If you're just trying to ape and copy the top selling game, you're almost destined to fail from the start. People don't to play the knockoff of the top game (be it sales or critically acclaimed), they want to play that top game. I hope publishers manage to wrap their mind around this some day.

[timetokill]

What's funny is I think Bethesda thinks we like Elder Scrolls because of the world or the lore.

Thing is, the world is shit and the lore is shit.

So far this reads as: "Hey kids, did you like Oblivion, or Skyrim? Well, we took out everything you might have liked from those games and put WoW mechanics in it! come get some!"

[Fancy Corndog]

I will simply repost what I said on Hard forums: This. If these bankrupt subhuman corporate shitforbrains even THINK of going with ANY of the following, it will suck more cock than Sasha Grey and that is a fact: 1. Low IQ "Kill 10 pigs" and come back and get your little pat on the head for being a good little special ed student who needs his hand held quests. No one likes this, and if they do, who gives a shit. 2. Theme park bullshit. We played TES: Skyrim because we played it the way we wanted to play, a giant sandbox, and it worked. There is no reason whatsorever to have a limp dick, bankrupt theme park-based MMO. WoW is the only one to do it right, stop trying to copy them. People are bored with WoW, and they only leave WoW to get away from WoW-type gameplay. So. Stop. Trying. To. Copy. Them. You fucking retards. Skryim works because it's a SANDBOX. 3. Linear progression. No one wants linear progression where we just follow a fucking walkthrough without actually playing the game. None of us want your typical grindfest where we go through the motions to get a piece of armor. No one. And if they do, as I said before, who fucking gives a shit? TES caters to people who like to do it our way, not some pre-defined path. 4. Shitty graphics. And by shitty I mean don't give us none of those pussy excuses along the lines of "Our new graphics system is very sophisticated and our new "Surealism Anime" character design is an attempt to be more coherent to everyone who hasn't played any of the TES games"....which is nothing more than a corpspeak euphemism "we need this game to run on a computer built in 2003 so we get maximum coverage" grade A bullshit. Fuck you. You know, like what they did with SWTOR where they made it look like George Lucas anal raped Clone Wars? I love MMO's, and I want to see an TES MMO. But I want it exactly as it is NOW, but with MP and a persistent world. I despise most theme park MMOs with an extreme hatred. SWTOR was ruined because of that for me, every other game the same thing. We want dynamic gameplay and a dynamic world. Skyrim did it, they should be able to do it. But I am a misanthrope and bitter over how other games ended up after hoping they wouldn't, so here's my prediction which I know will be spot on: they will have all of the above that I listed. They will do this because they are bankrupt and they will play it safe like typical dickless wonders always do. And they will fail after the first few months and if they didn't come out as F2P, they will resort to F2P, and then die out a year later. Watch. Only a few companies actually have dicks between their legs, and this company doesn't even have a bulge showing, let alone letting it all hang out. I've played so many MMO's over the years, and I see the pattern very well. SWTOR was the last time I ever let my fanboism out. I should have known better. Never again. When I see actuall gameplay footage, when I see the actual details of how the game is going to work, then and only then will I start following it. So, a BIG fuck you. Go fuck myourself. SWTOR looks like shit and plays like shit because of the hero engine. Period. Fuck you dickless subhuman. As predicted. Your NOT appealing to Skyrim players. PERIOD. And the shitheads who do play it will get bored and leave anyways. You either go with WHAT works, AKA SANDBOX mode, or you don't fucking make the game. No one wants to play a dumbed down version of Skrim. No one.

You are an angry forums poster, aren't you Buxaroo?

What's funny is I think Bethesda thinks we like Elder Scrolls because of the world or the lore. Thing is, the world is shit and the lore is shit. So far this reads as: "Hey kids, did you like Oblivion, or Skyrim? Well, we took out everything you might have liked from those games and put WoW mechanics in it! come get some!"

Really? I think a lot of people like TES specifically because of the world and the lore. Why else would you play it, other than to experience the world? The combat is extremely outdated and lifeless, the loot is boring, there's no balance or difficulty, etc.

[Dysun]

So it's SWTOR with an elder scrolls skin, and the same broken engine.

Sounds bad

Might as well play the original WoW since it still runs better than any of its copycats.

[animlboogy]

"It needs to be comfortable for people who are comign in from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players."

This is the saddest thing. The saddest.

If only I could drag every modern theme park MMO wannabe developer back in time and force them to play every networked RPG from MUD2 through Ultima Online. MMO is not a genre, it is a networked game concept to plug ideas into, and it's been done in so many wonderful ways.

The problem is, the WoW audience is so huge, existing players are the target. Existing players that we have no evidence are going to outlast the next five years of interest. CoD is finally showing signs of the steady decline. WoW is shedding subs by the hundreds of thousands. SWTOR PR is basically an exercise in damage control. Big seemingly unstoppable fads that lasted years like Guitar Hero and months like Draw Something have lost millions of fans through pure disinterest.

Where is the evidence that, for a game releasing in 2013, that there is something somehow dangerous in ignoring the WoW model? Is the lucrative but somewhat diminished status of a Dungeons and Dragons Online really the goal for a big release like this? Because there is just no way WoW numbers are in the cards, these people obviously know that. If SWTOR couldn't do it by going the standard post-WoW way, who can?

[Cow Mengde]

Elder Scrolls MMO? It's like pissing on a piece of shit. Now you don't even get to fix this crap with 10 gigs of mods installed.

[Derrick01]

No one wants to play a dumbed down version of Skrim. No one.

Heh I remember saying this about Skyrim/Oblivion and Oblivion/Morrowind.

Turns out plenty do :\

[Gravijah]

Heh I remember saying this about Skyrim/Oblivion and Oblivion/Morrowind. Turns out plenty do :\

do fans of daggerfall say this about morrowind too?

[NullPointer]

Really? I think a lot of people like TES specifically because of the world and the lore. Why else would you play it, other than to experience the world? The combat is extremely outdated and lifeless, the loot is boring, there's no balance or difficulty, etc.

I take it you didn't play a stealth archer / enchanter then eh? Because it's awesome.

[Sblargh]

I just don't get it. I hear about all this crazy shit going down with EVE Online. Amazing stuff. Things I would have never had believed if you would have told me however many years ago. The gameplay is unique, and the developers basically shoved people into the world and say "it's yours." It just feels like the MMO, or the idea of a persistant world has so much potential...but all these developers are trying to chase WoW. You're never going to beat WoW at its own game. WoW is WoW. Why not try something different or unique? It doesn't have to even be EVE, but why not try to differentiate yourself? This game could have done that. It could have been something truly uniqued that mimics the current TES games gameplay and feel, but instead they went the easiest and safest route, and they are likely going to get no reward for that at all.

Yeah man, since you're going "a player can be emperor" route, make it crazy, allow people to control the economy, the laws, the politics, make player bandit raids a real thing, make a responsability of the ruler of a city to defend it or let it all fall to anarchy or fascism depending on the players.
Make at least one server like this if you're afraid it will frighten people.

[FieryBalrog]

"It needs to be comfortable for people who are comign in from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players." This is the saddest thing. The saddest. If only I could drag every modern theme park MMO wannabe developer back in time and force them to play every networked RPG from MUD2 through Ultima Online. MMO is not a genre, it is a networked game concept to plug ideas into, and it's been done in so many wonderful ways. The problem is, the WoW audience is so huge, existing players are the target. Existing players that we have no evidence are going to outlast the next five years of interest. CoD is finally showing signs of the steady decline. WoW is shedding subs by the hundreds of thousands. SWTOR PR is basically an exercise in damage control. Big seemingly unstoppable fads that lasted years like Guitar Hero and months like Draw Something have lost millions of fans through pure disinterest. Where is the evidence that, for a game releasing in 2013, that there is something somehow dangerous in ignoring the WoW model? Is the lucrative but somewhat diminished status of a Dungeons and Dragons Online really the goal for a big release like this? Because there is just no way WoW numbers are in the cards, these people obviously know that. If SWTOR couldn't do it by going the standard post-WoW way, who can?

They started in 2007.

Like so many others, they are chasing WoW from 2007-2008.

This is pure bland corporate-driven game making. These are all Zune, the MMO. Meanwhile Apple will be changing the market again...

[Derrick01]

do fans of daggerfall say this about morrowind too?

I don't know I didn't play it. However unique content is always > randomly generated content. Always.

[Tokyo Rain]

Hero Engine.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[Fancy Corndog]

I take it you didn't play a stealth archer / enchanter then eh? Because it's awesome.

Eh, it's fun but not on purpose. It feels nice to pull off a long headshot but the game doesn't know you did it. Stealth is also fun to do, but it's either useless or totally overpowered depending on your perks.

It's kind of ridiculous that you can 'sneak' right in front of someone's face and shoot them in the toe and they die, but then you can shoot that same enemy in the back of the head while standing up and it does half the damage.

[DTKT]

They started in 2007. Like so many others, they are chasing WoW from 2007-2008. This is pure bland corporate-driven game making. These are all Zune, the MMO. Meanwhile Apple will be changing the market again...

That's really the issue. They are making a game with 2007 mechanics.

[Chris_C]

The game uses a hotbar to activate skills like other traditional MMOs

Welp, I'm out.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not overkeen.

[BlazingDarkness]

Sounds bloody awful.

They lost me at hotbar skills

It's basically going to be WoW with an Elder Scrolls skin. Donotwant

[animlboogy]

I don't know I didn't play it. However unique content is always > randomly generated content. Always.

So you don't think too highly of rougelikes, huh?

Procedural content can be a lot more compelling simply due to it being unexpected every time. A lot of games do it in really boring ways, sure, but what you're saying just isn't true.

[RiderKairuu]

Not gonna write it off but so far what I've read doesn't sound appealing at all to me.

[AppleMIX]

Wow, sounds terrible. At least TOR has a interesting universe and writing.

[Cyrano]

"It needs to be comfortable for people who are comign in from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players." This is the saddest thing. The saddest. If only I could drag every modern theme park MMO wannabe developer back in time and force them to play every networked RPG from MUD2 through Ultima Online. MMO is not a genre, it is a networked game concept to plug ideas into, and it's been done in so many wonderful ways. The problem is, the WoW audience is so huge, existing players are the target. Existing players that we have no evidence are going to outlast the next five years of interest. CoD is finally showing signs of the steady decline. WoW is shedding subs by the hundreds of thousands. SWTOR PR is basically an exercise in damage control. Big seemingly unstoppable fads that lasted years like Guitar Hero and months like Draw Something have lost millions of fans through pure disinterest. Where is the evidence that, for a game releasing in 2013, that there is something somehow dangerous in ignoring the WoW model? Is the lucrative but somewhat diminished status of a Dungeons and Dragons Online really the goal for a big release like this? Because there is just no way WoW numbers are in the cards, these people obviously know that. If SWTOR couldn't do it by going the standard post-WoW way, who can?

It's because of the skyrocketing costs of developing an MMO. The first few were developed for a few million dollars at most, whereas now the current MMO generation just, for some dumb reason, expects an MMO to have a multi-hundred million dollar development budget. And investors only care about safe bets, and the WoW model is currently the safest. It's also why every FPS is trying to do CoD better than CoD or Battlefield better Battlefield.

It should also be noted that none of these investors have any idea what makes a game successful or good, and it's quite likely they've never played a videogame in their life. When every game has to have these kinds of budgets to be considered quality, it's not even so much a problem with the game as much as it's a problem with the industry (and it is, and it's quickly becoming relevant and known as to how untenable the model is).

[Raitosaito]

An MMO that's not really an Elder Scrolls, but just a game with the Elder Scrolls name attached to it? Sigh

[animlboogy]

That's really the issue. They are making a game with 2007 mechanics.

Maybe when we see more of the game, we'll get more out of it. But just look at the the way they're talking about it: "We're trying to make things comfortable for people used to WoW." Whereas Guild Wars 2 PR is like, "There will be a skill bar, and we're going to turn it into something new and unfamiliar." That's to say nothing of something like Tera, which is pretty much, "it's action. Deal with it." I mean, they're not even taking advantage of us having not seen the game yet to pull a Molyneux. They're already afraid the MMO curmudgeons won't take kindly to them messing with the formula. It's just a bad sign for how this will all turn out.

It's because of the skyrocketing costs of developing an MMO. The first few were developed for a few million dollars at most, whereas now the current MMO generation just, for some dumb reason, expects an MMO to have a multi-hundred million dollar development budget. And investors only care about safe bets, and the WoW model is currently the safest. It's also why every FPS is trying to do CoD better than CoD or Battlefield better Battlefield. It should also be noted that none of these investors have any idea what makes a game successful or good, and it's quite likely they've never played a videogame in their life. When every game has to have these kinds of budgets to be considered quality, it's not even so much a problem with the game as much as it's a problem with the industry (and it is, and it's quickly becoming relevant and known as to how untenable the model is).

But it feels like we should be moving on for the sake of mitigating risk. ArenaNet figured that out and their game has been in development for years. Tera is the current hot thing, and its entire marketing campaign is based on the combat being something different. Both games are similar to what we've seen before in many ways, yet the main thrust of their marketing is, "we're different."

It seems like some corporate types are seeing that there are ways to change the variables without throwing out the whole formula. And if that's happening now, what's the atmosphere going to be a year and a half from now when this game hits?

This isn't just a case of them not being able to look into the future. They're not even looking over their shoulder at what the other guys are doing. The eye is firmly on WoW's fortunes, which are apparently sinking slowly enough that these business guys aren't able to see any motion at all.

[Alucrid]

Day ftp

[FieryBalrog]

It's because of the skyrocketing costs of developing an MMO. The first few were developed for a few million dollars at most, whereas now the current MMO generation just, for some dumb reason, expects an MMO to have a multi-hundred million dollar development budget.

The only reason dev costs are THAT massive is because the publishers are trying to out WoW each other. Look at SWTOR for the perfect example- WoW, with hundreds of hours of voice acting! That shit don't come cheap.

Eve Online probably gave a better ROI than any of these- dirt cheap to make with very little in the way of developer-created content compared to WoW & co. Mostly rules based. Steady sub base churning out profits.

And investors only care about safe bets, and the WoW model is currently the safest. It's also why every FPS is trying to do CoD better than CoD or Battlefield better Battlefield. It should also be noted that none of these investors have any idea what makes a game successful or good, and it's quite likely they've never played a videogame in their life.

That's more like it. It's like the iPod or iPhone or Avatar all over again. Monkey see, monkey do. Something is wildly successful beyond our wildest dreams! Quick, throw money at the wall and see what sticks! Pure gold rush behavior.

[vaelic]

none of this sounds good at all

[animlboogy]

Eve Online probably gave a better ROI than any of these- dirt cheap to make with very little in the way of developer-created content compared to WoW & co. Mostly rules based. Steady sub base churning out profits.

Eve has had its share of problems. It wasn't that long ago that they had to lay off enough developers that for a good while there most of us were convinced that World of Darkness was canceled. They seem to have righted that ship, though, and I do credit Eve's evergreen status to that. We're all talking about that game ever time a new war starts, or some horrific incident with lots of money lost goes down. If Eve was just WoW in space, it would probably be F2P or dead by now, because nobody would be talking about it.

The next bump in the road is how well bolting Dust 514 to the Eve ship goes. Let's hope it doesn't sink the whole thing.

[FieryBalrog]

Eve has had its share of problems. It wasn't that long ago that they had to lay off enough developers that for a good while there most of us were convinced that World of Darkness was canceled. They seem to have righted that ship, though, and I do credit Eve's evergreen status to that. We're all talking about that game ever time a new war starts, or some horrific incident with lots of money lost goes down. If Eve was just WoW in space, it would probably be F2P or dead by now, because nobody would be talking about it. The next bump in the road is how well bolting Dust 514 to the Eve ship goes. Let's hope it doesn't sink the whole thing.

Well, everything gets old after a while, and CCP doesn't seem to have any other tricks up its sleeve except the dubious Dust 514 project (which has been a loooooooooooong time coming anyway).

Still, they made a tidy sum those several years, I'm sure.

[animlboogy]

Well, everything gets old after a while, and CCP doesn't seem to have any other tricks up its sleeve except the dubious Dust 514 project (which has been a loooooooooooong time coming anyway). Still, they made a tidy sum those several years, I'm sure.

And your point on ROI still stands either way. It's really their own hubris that has led to problems.

I'd say World of Darkness is a trick up their sleeve if it ever comes out. Simply being on-foot while still having the balls to include a form of perma-death should make it a bit more accessible than Eve.

[DTKT]

Eve has had its share of problems. It wasn't that long ago that they had to lay off enough developers that for a good while there most of us were convinced that World of Darkness was canceled. They seem to have righted that ship, though, and I do credit Eve's evergreen status to that. We're all talking about that game ever time a new war starts, or some horrific incident with lots of money lost goes down. If Eve was just WoW in space, it would probably be F2P or dead by now, because nobody would be talking about it. The next bump in the road is how well bolting Dust 514 to the Eve ship goes. Let's hope it doesn't sink the whole thing.

The issue wasn't really EVE. It's CCP was way too ambitious. It had EVE + WoD + Dust in dev.

It had to scale back.

[fizzelopeguss]

Because it is. Full voice acting made TOR so much more enjoyable than if it had text-only during quests and cutscenes. But I guess there's people like you that don't like voiced cutsices since they just want to skip them and get to killing those 10 crabs quick.

long, monotonous, uninteresting dialogue with biowares patented "shot, reverse shot" conversation system. Designed entirely to pad out quests that consisted of "kill 5 of these and collect 10 of those" added absolutely fuck all to the game.

[maquiladora]

I'd be all over this if it was Fallout Online.

[animlboogy]

The issue wasn't really EVE. It's CCP was way too ambitious. It had EVE + WoD + Dust in dev. It had to scale back.

Yeah, I touched on that above. But weren't they kind of mishandling Eve for awhile there? I recall a lot of talk from the upper echelons of CCP apologizing to fans. Monocles and some such things.

I'd be all over this if it was Fallout Online.

Give Fallen Earth a shot. It's actually not too bad. I've often considered going back to it.

[Cyrano]

But it feels like we should be moving on for the sake of mitigating risk. ArenaNet figured that out and their game has been in development for years. Tera is the current hot thing, and its entire marketing campaign is based on the combat being something different. Both games are similar to what we've seen before in many ways, yet the main thrust of their marketing is, "we're different." It seems like some corporate types are seeing that there are ways to change the variables without throwing out the whole formula. And if that's happening now, what's the atmosphere going to be a year and a half from now when this game hits? This isn't just a case of them not being able to look into the future. They're not even looking over their shoulder at what the other guys are doing. The eye is firmly on WoW's fortunes, which are apparently sinking slowly enough that these business guys aren't able to see any motion at all.

Sure, but that's normal of big businesses. They didn't see a huge number of house assets as being entirely awful for the economy. Some did, but the majority had no idea.

TERA was made by a startup company (that pooled assets while still at NCSoft), and while its questing is definitely WoW, there's very little that's otherwise similar. Guild Wars 2 is different in its evolving battlescapes, but also hangs on to similar aspects in questing (localizing a lot of stuff to areas, in a similar manner that WoW does its reputation system). The MMO market is fixable, but I think it needs to crash first before people change things. I think something similar needs to happen to FPSes, where a high profile one fails spectacularly (probably CoD or Battlefield, more likely CoD). These games need to be willingly made around tighter constraints that don't require all of what is currently expected of them, because what's currently expected is just leading to market stagnation.

[djplaeskool]

-You can't be a werewolf or vampire

[Won]

Well, sounds like a lot of wasted potential already. Good job!