[Devolution]

I'd say this is nonsense, most women will create an opening through body language but very little more. If you've had different experiences you must be in a very different culture (like Brazil, where it's different) but in the English speaking west thats the way it goes. Approaching shows a lot of confidence so it's worth doing in any case.

Switch girlfriend to not getting hit on or propositioned.

[JokerOfSpades]

In fact, the reason for slut-shaming is likely jealousy - from both men and women.

But hey, at least now I'm not the only one saying these things...

Which reminds me - I espoused similar views on women having it easier than men for sex being the reason men are more respected for having sex before... as well as the notion that jealousy was probably the reason for slut-shaming.

Also, I never supported slut-shaming throughout this argument.

[TheHeretic]

different in what way?

Women are more aggressive in Brazil (much more aggressive from my experiences). American women on the east coast were quite difficult to talk to in comparison. That's just anecdotal of course!

[JokerOfSpades]

Dy is American. As am I. and I've been approached numerous times at places. Yes, guys approach women more often here; it's our culture. But to say it's nonsense that men get approached too? please.

Again, I never said that they weren't approached - only that they were approached less.

[Black Mamba]

Again, I never said that they weren't approached - only that they were approached less.

i know, I wasn't responded to you. I agree men are approached less.

I was responding to the guy who thinks it's nonsense that men are approached.

[subversus]

Women are more aggressive in Brazil (much more aggressive from my experiences). American women on the east coast were quite difficult to talk to in comparison. That's just anecdotal of course!

agressive - do you mean sexually "agressive"?

[TheHeretic]

i know, I wasn't responded to you. I agree men are approached less. I was responding to the guy who thinks it's nonsense that men are approached.

That's just a strawman, obviously we are talking about trends.

[Black Mamba]

That's just a strawman, obviously we are talking about trends.

Then can you be more specific with your claims of what he said that was nonsense?

[jaxword]

Slut shaming is, WITHOUT EXAGGERATION, one of the most destructive elements to human social coherency.

I fully stand by this. Think about how many problems in the world stem from people (mainly guys) not having enough sex. How many miserable, bitter, assholes out there would suddenly find the world isn't so bad if they were getting a great blowjob every morning? Suddenly they'd be just THAT much nicer, and that much less likely to wreck someone's day. Oh, someone bumped into me? Well, I just had the best fucking sex of my life, so I don't even have the testosterone regenerated yet to aggressively start a fight. Have a nice day!

Now take that analogy to a national or even international level.

I'm 100% certain that so many of the world's conflicts of beliefs, politics, religion, would be lessened if people were just having better sex. You think we'd have so many violent sociopaths volunteering to go 10000000000 miles away to shoot strangers if they had to give up the best sex they've ever had?

Slut shaming is the result of a society that doesn't have enough sex and thus lashes out bitterly at what they can't have. You know this to be true, you see this EVERY SINGLE DAY on every single forum that's mostly guys.

[The Anti-Monitor]

You and Devo. But you already knew that. Never heard the first one before, the second one makes no sense. Didn't say it ruined a woman, but thank you for noting the bolded. At the very least I'm not (that) insane. The notion was that guys are given respect for being promiscuous because it's more difficult. I already stated earlier that this wasn't a reason for slut-shaming.

*giggle*

I've heard both, a lot of times. The former on this very thread.

Is there a serious debate going on on whether or not women have an easier time getting laid than men? Seriously?

I believe everyone agrees with that, it's the notion that we get laid 100% of the time we want to, and that men are always the pursuers what people are arguing.

Women are more aggressive in Brazil (much more aggressive from my experiences). American women on the east coast were quite difficult to talk to in comparison. That's just anecdotal of course!

Well, never been to America so of course I'm speaking from a different angle as well, but you see differences even among Americans depending on how old are they in this thread.

[TheHeretic]

Then can you be more specific with your claims of what he said that was nonsense?

I don't have anything to add to what I wrote above, it reads specific enough.

[JokerOfSpades]

I think now's a good time to reiterate my position:

1) Men are given respect for promiscuity because it's more difficult to be that way
2) Women are likely slut-shamed out of jealousy
3) Everything else was an argument I had heard as to why women being promiscuous was bad, or otherwise slutty - I did figure out some responses to that, though:

- Again, guys would do the same things if they could, so jealousy
- Ooh, even better. I remember saying that if women fell for guys being assholes and ended up having sex with them, how that's on them. I'm certain people in my college would agree. So if a guy is going to have sex with a girl who uses her body in that way (to gain things) - well that's on you.


----
That said - if a girl had sex with all of my friends... or a huge amount of people, it would not make me feel as special as with someone with a smaller amount. IDK - would you ladies feel like part of the list if you had sex with a guy who had sex with a LOT of people or even just all of your friends?

In that case, approaching this guy/girl wouldn't even be any sort of confidence boost.

Really just want opinions here.

(PS. squidyj, one of these days we'll be on the opposite side of an argument and you'll actually say something that supports your argument. Ad hominem doesn't count. <3 Joker)

[Seep]

So what's this negging thing?

[JokerOfSpades]

Slut shaming is, WITHOUT EXAGGERATION, one of the most destructive elements to human social coherency. I fully stand by this. Think about how many problems in the world stem from people (mainly guys) not having enough sex. How many miserable, bitter, assholes out there would suddenly find the world isn't so bad if they were getting a great blowjob every morning? Suddenly they'd be just THAT much nicer, and that much less likely to wreck someone's day. Oh, someone bumped into me? Well, I just had the best fucking sex of my life, so I don't even have the testosterone regenerated yet to aggressively start a fight. Have a nice day! Now take that analogy to a national or even international level. I'm 100% certain that so many of the world's conflicts of beliefs, politics, religion, would be lessened if people were just having better sex. You think we'd have so many violent sociopaths volunteering to go 10000000000 miles away to shoot strangers if they had to give up the best sex they've ever had? Slut shaming is the result of a society that doesn't have enough sex and thus lashes out bitterly at what they can't have. You know this to be true, you see this EVERY SINGLE DAY on every single forum that's mostly guys.

There's only one problem that I have with this post - females slut-shame too. A lot. I know girls who have been called sluts, and girls who call others sluts, and are disgusted by slutty behavior.

Also a girl who thinks blowjobs are gross, and I'm all "what do you mean you don't suck dick?!"

But, really, people on both sides need to be more open to oral. IMHO.

[jaxword]

2) Women are likely slut-shamed out of jealousy

Pretty much, but jealousy borne out of greed. I want to have sex with as many girls as possible. I cannot do this. Therefore I will make those sluts feel bad because I cannot have them.

It's more Sour Grapes being used as a externalized weapon. If I can't have you, then I'll make sure you look sour to everyone else, too.

If everyone stopped being so full of themselves and started being more honest about what they want, we'd have a far happier society of happier people having happier sex.

There's only one problem that I have with this post - females slut-shame too. A lot. I know girls who have been called sluts, and girls who call others sluts, and are disgusted by slutty behavior.

Of course, but women are people too, and they are affected by societal pressures as well. So when they hate those "sluts" they're really just repeating what they've been brainwashed to think about sexuality: GOOD girls don't sleep around, only BAD girls do.

Remember, for all our centuries of education and progress, this is still a male-dominated society. And male-specific viewpoints filter into the media, regardless of whether it comes from men or women.

People look for ANY reason to look down upon others. So in this jealous, male-dominated society, the idea that a girl who has sex is a slut has become a negative image. Therefore generations of people (men AND women) use it as their weapon to look down upon others.

We're all looking for someone to look down on, men and women.

[TheHeretic]

Well, never been to America so of course I'm speaking from a different angle as well, but you see differences even among Americans depending on how old are they in this thread.

Big difference in the south as well, where politeness is an important virtue, so that makes things go along more smoothly as well.

[Professor Beef]

That said - if a girl had sex with all of my friends... or a huge amount of people, it would not make me feel as special as with someone with a smaller amount. IDK - would you ladies feel like part of the list if you had sex with a guy who had sex with a LOT of people or even just all of your friends? In that case, approaching this guy/girl wouldn't even be any sort of confidence boost.

Maybe its because its 3:30 in the morning and i desperately need sleep, but this makes no damn sense. Just because someone has had way more sex than me doesn't mean I'm not going to feel special if I hook up with that person. My self-esteem is a lot higher than that.

So what's this negging thing?

Treating women like shit so their selfconfidence lowers enough for you to get in their pants. That's the gist of it, at least.

[JokerOfSpades]

So what's this negging thing?

Oooh, I'll explain!

It's basically backhanded comments that supposedly make women want you more.

Like:
"Nice fruit plate! Are you on a diet? That's great!" (xkcd example)
"It takes a really unique person to pull that outfit off." (NCIS LA example)

Basically, you're complimenting them while making them focus on trying to impress you.

[jaxword]

Oooh, I'll explain! It's basically backhanded comments that supposedly make women want you more. Like: "Nice fruit plate! Are you on a diet? That's great!" (xkcd example) "It takes a really unique person to pull that outfit off." (NCIS LA example) Basically, you're complimenting them while making them focus on trying to impress you.

Pretty clever manipulation. How often does it work? Don't say "never" because we both know that all these manipulative tricks DO have some degree of success, whether they should or not.

[The Anti-Monitor]

That said - if a girl had sex with all of my friends... or a huge amount of people, it would not make me feel as special as with someone with a smaller amount. IDK - would you ladies feel like part of the list if you had sex with a guy who had sex with a LOT of people or even just all of your friends? In that case, approaching this guy/girl wouldn't even be any sort of confidence boost.

I'm not sure I understand you.

I don't care about what the other person has done before (the more, the better in most cases), fucking is fun because fucking is fun, not because *ohh geee hee chooose meee!*. Then again I admit this is my viewpoint which is not as popular as I thought it would.

[JokerOfSpades]

Pretty much, but jealousy borne out of greed. I want to have sex with as many girls as possible. I cannot do this. Therefore I will make those sluts feel bad because I cannot have them. It's more Sour Grapes being used as a externalized weapon. If I can't have you, then I'll make sure you look sour to everyone else, too. If everyone stopped being so full of themselves and started being more honest about what they want, we'd have a far happier society of happier people having happier sex.

I think it's more that they just wish they could do what the girl is doing.

"I wish I could be having as much sex," "I wish I could be getting free drinks," etc.

[TheHeretic]

Pretty clever manipulation. How often does it work? Don't say "never" because we both know that all these manipulative tricks DO have some degree of success, whether they should or not.

I doubt it works very well. I can imagine it having some marginal utility on a girl used to being worshipped by men, just because it has some shock value, but of you are going for shock value why do it that way?

[JokerOfSpades]

Of course, but women are people too, and they are affected by societal pressures as well. So when they hate those "sluts" they're really just repeating what they've been brainwashed to think about sexuality: GOOD girls don't sleep around, only BAD girls do. Remember, for all our centuries of education and progress, this is still a male-dominated society. And male-specific viewpoints filter into the media, regardless of whether it comes from men or women. People look for ANY reason to look down upon others. So in this jealous, male-dominated society, the idea that a girl who has sex is a slut has become a negative image. Therefore generations of people (men AND women) use it as their weapon to look down upon others. We're all looking for someone to look down on, men and women.

Agreed.

Pretty clever manipulation. How often does it work? Don't say "never" because we both know that all these manipulative tricks DO have some degree of success, whether they should or not.

I have no clue in terms of statistics. But I've heard of it working and so many guys seem to think it does. I really have no idea.

I'm not sure I understand you. I don't care about what the other person has done before (the more, the better in most cases), fucking is fun because fucking is fun, not because *ohh geee hee chooose meee!*. Then again I admit this is my viewpoint which is not as popular as I thought it would.

In that case, what's the shame in ordering a prostitute? Is it that money is being spent on the sex?

At any rate, perhaps I'm weird that way. So long as it hasn't been done with a good amount of people I know, I don't care that much.

[Trent Strong]

It's that fucking simple.

No, it's not that simple. Where did this cycle start and why? How does this explain sexual dimorphism? How does this explain how prostitution has worked for all of recorded history? I could ask a million more questions that this idea can't explain, but that evolutionary psychology can explain.

[jaxword]

I think it's more that they just wish they could do what the girl is doing. "I wish I could be having as much sex," "I wish I could be getting free drinks," etc.

Ah, well, that's probably playing a role too, but that's just simple jealousy that crops up in EVERY situation, sexual or otherwise. Everyone needs to few superior to someone. Look at how fast messageboards turn upon someone who makes an ass of themselves. Or posts some idiotic picture (as if we haven't all had stupid pics taken). Or take online gaming, where someone who beats you is a No Life Losers, while someone you beat is some noob.

People are just insecure at heart and look for any excuse to bring others down to their level.

[Professor Beef]

Pretty clever manipulation. How often does it work? Don't say "never" because we both know that all these manipulative tricks DO have some degree of success, whether they should or not.

It works well enough that it's got an official term for it!

[JokerOfSpades]

It works well enough that it's got an official term for it!

So does "trickle-down economy."

Though I'm economically retarded, so I really should ask about that elsewhere.

[DY_nasty]

No, it's not that simple. Where did this cycle start and why? How does this explain sexual dimorphism? How does this explain how prostitution has worked for all of recorded history? I could ask a million more questions that this idea can't explain, but that evolutionary psychology can explain.

It definitely fits the discussion here... But I'm sure RiskyChris is already offended somewhere.

[Seep]

Treating women like shit so their selfconfidence lowers enough for you to get in their pants. That's the gist of it, at least.

Oooh, I'll explain! It's basically backhanded comments that supposedly make women want you more. Like: "Nice fruit plate! Are you on a diet? That's great!" (xkcd example) "It takes a really unique person to pull that outfit off." (NCIS LA example) Basically, you're complimenting them while making them focus on trying to impress you.

Right, it sounds like something only sneaky self conscious bastards would do.

I thought they'd misspelt Nagging. Lol

[Professor Beef]

It definitely fits the discussion here... But I'm sure RiskyChris is already offended somewhere.

Wherever there is a puddle with no man's jacket covering it, he will be there.

[Fudgepuppy]

There's huge differences between a women sleeping around and a slut. This goes for men as well.

There are people who sleep around alot, and then there are people who manipulate, destroy and generally fuck things up. It's not the number that differs, it's the person.

[robertsan21]

Take it from an expert at women.

women are their own worse enemy.

point 3. Playing hard to get.

I agree, they attract a lot of assholes by doing this. men that will only stay until she gives it up. But at the same time they need to do this to get the guys to think about her as a person and develope some sort of feeling for her. The more time the guy spends with here the more feelings he might develope, and when the time comes to have sex the guys is not just there for a quicky and leaves afterwards.

I have a lot of female friends that ask me advice on how to act with a new man she likes and I always tell them to not sleep with him early.

Negging.

Well it works on most women unfortunately, I never use dirty tricks like that as I dont have to, i get laid anyway.


point nr 1:

Women that sleeps around are just hurting themselfs and making her even more unsecure.

there is a difference between men and women, Prehistoric man sole mission was the spread his seed. women was to select the best alpha male to have a kid with.

fastforward to today, men are still men and women are still women but with a more developed brain. we can control ourself and we do not need to breed like we did back then.

however the basic needs are the same, men wants to fuck everything, women choose their mates carefully.

yea I said it, and I stand by it.

[JokerOfSpades]

There's huge differences between a women sleeping around and a slut. This goes for men as well. There are people who sleep around alot, and then there are people who manipulate, destroy and generally fuck things up. It's not the number that differs, it's the person.

I will agree with this as well.

Which reminds me - I still haven't thought of any counters to the "vaginas get loose after a lot of sex." Any takers?

[Satch]

stuff

*looks at tag*

I'm going to bed.

[The Anti-Monitor]

Wherever there is a puddle with no man's jacket covering it, he will be there.

Who's him?

There's huge differences between a women sleeping around and a slut. This goes for men as well. There are people who sleep around alot, and then there are people who manipulate, destroy and generally fuck things up. It's not the number that differs, it's the person.

As far as I've seen, to most people there really is no difference.

Take it from an expert at women.

Pfff hahahahaha

Back off man, I'm a scientist.

Women that sleeps around are just hurting themselfs and making her even more unsecure.

lolwut?

I will agree with this as well. Which reminds me - I still haven't thought of any counters to the "vaginas get loose after a lot of sex." Any takers?

...
anecdotal evidence.

[Gustav]

No, it's not that simple. Where did this cycle start and why? How does this explain sexual dimorphism? How does this explain how prostitution has worked for all of recorded history? I could ask a million more questions that this idea can't explain, but that evolutionary psychology can explain.

Wow - best post in this trainwreck. Kudos!

[jaxword]

I will agree with this as well. Which reminds me - I still haven't thought of any counters to the "vaginas get loose after a lot of sex." Any takers?

Well, I'm a bit torn here. As we age, our muscles do lose elasticity and firmness, so this one isn't exactly incorrect. It's like saying penises lose their erectile functions as men age. It's just a fact of the human body. WE AGE.

That being said, perhaps you could counter it with "if you keep yourself in good shape, you'd hardly notice, and kegels are muscles just like any other".

In fact, it's just general good advice that if you keep your body in good shape and tighten those muscles, you can compensate for aging all over the body.

[Devolution]

No, it's not that simple. Where did this cycle start and why? How does this explain sexual dimorphism? How does this explain how prostitution has worked for all of recorded history? I could ask a million more questions that this idea can't explain, but that evolutionary psychology can explain.

Which recorded history? What societies? Much of recorded history is patriarchal misogynist societies in which women's sexual promiscuity was either be a wife or be a whore.

[Fudgepuppy]

As far as I've seen, to most people there really is no difference.

My town is riddled hostile-feminist that generalize and assume all guys thinks that all girls who aren't celibate, are sluts. When you try to explain they go into combat-mode, and then you're screwed.

Kinda ironic actually.

[Professor Beef]

wat

Who's him?

He was THE White Knight around these parts, until he got banned.

[JokerOfSpades]

Well, I'm a bit torn here. As we age, our muscles do lose elasticity and firmness, so this one isn't exactly incorrect. It's like saying penises lose their erectile functions as men age. It's just a fact of the human body. WE AGE. That being said, perhaps you could counter it with "if you keep yourself in good shape, you'd hardly notice, and kegels are muscles just like any other". In fact, it's just general good advice that if you keep your body in good shape and tighten those muscles, you can compensate for aging all over the body.

Perfect! Thank you.

[Sadsic]

the only mistake women make with men is that they assume they know what theyre thinking/feeling 95% of the time and will continually be offended when it turns out the man isnt as empathetic as the woman assumes


my mom does this, all female friends of mine have done this, my sister does this, my stepmom does this, all girlfriends of me have done this

men really really suck at reading emotions and we will never be able to figure out what women are feeling unless they outwardly show it

[Seep]

I will agree with this as well. Which reminds me - I still haven't thought of any counters to the "vaginas get loose after a lot of sex." Any takers?

I've had my fair share of women and I'd say that's false for the most part, I've had absolute slags that are tight as fuck and birds who haven't had sex in months but are a bit baggy all different ages too. I think people are just different down there no matter their sexual behaviour.

Plus there are some great excercises to tighten vaginal muscles.

[Always-honest]

men really really suck at reading emotions and we will never be able to figure out what women are feeling unless they outwardly show it

There are a lot of differences between a lot of men.
Thank god.

Please speak for yourself.

[Gustav]

Which recorded history? What societies? Much of recorded history is patriarchal misogynist societies in which women's sexual promiscuity was either be a wife or be a whore.

Goddamn, your world is black and white.

[endre]

Oooh, I'll explain! It's basically backhanded comments that supposedly make women want you more. Like: "Nice fruit plate! Are you on a diet? That's great!" (xkcd example) "It takes a really unique person to pull that outfit off." (NCIS LA example) Basically, you're complimenting them while making them focus on trying to impress you.

Wait, what? So this is based on RL?!

[Timedog]

Why are we discussing women's vaginas getting looser after a lot of sex? What's that have to with ANyTHING?

Goddamn, your world is black and white.

AKA you have nothing to contribute. Cool beans.

[Devolution]

Goddamn, your world is black and white.

Not really. Evopsych summed up is basically post hoc rationalization for treating women like shit for centuries and acts like societies in which there wasn't a patriarchal model are bereft from history or didn't come before.

[Bleepey]

My thoughts... 3. Chicks that play hard to get aren't worth the effort. There's no point in banging your head against a brick wall over and over. For every difficult chick, there's 10 that aren't a complete pain in the ass to work with. 2. I don't even know how to neg properly (so I'll just keep on moving to #1). I've seen it done to great (and baffling) effect. Honestly it's quite sad to see it work. My roommate is an expert at it and watching him in action makes for interesting people-watching. He makes sport out of tearing a girl down and building her back up as he wants to. I just don't get it though. 1. Slutty chicks are nothing more than potential for embarassment to me. No thanks.

What does your roommate say and do?

[soul creator]

another post where people should read Sex At Dawn :P