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chiablo
Member
(05-04-2012, 03:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by dark10x

I don't as those buttons are simply not necessary for most games.

Besides, something like this offers plenty of buttons AND an analog stick.



If we could get a perfected version of this I would be thrilled.

I have the G13, it's a good gaming device, but it gets quite uncomfortable to use after a while because of the placement of your thumb. It did make WoW a joy to play, and I'm looking forward to breaking it out of storage for Guild Wars 2.
Orayn
Member
(05-04-2012, 03:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by dark10x

I don't as those buttons are simply not necessary for most games.

Besides, something like this offers plenty of buttons AND an analog stick.



If we could get a perfected version of this I would be thrilled.

With mechanical keys, no unnecessary screen, and a really nice analog stick!
Felix Lighter
Member
(05-04-2012, 03:52 PM)
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I think if the analog stick was horizontal instead of vertical it would be more comfortable. The issue then would be to counteract the force your thumb would be exerting horizontally to prevent it from sliding.
butts
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:01 PM)
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Put your cell phone on your desk, hold your hand on top of it, then have someone call it. Shitty right? The noise is amplified a ton, it would be really stupid to put in a mouse.

The only time I remember rumble is still a thing is when I put a controller on my desk during a shitty cutscene and it kicks on and sounds like a jackhammer.
larvi
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:03 PM)

Originally Posted by BramVD

please remove rumble from all controllers and give us a lighter controller...

I do not care for rumble much... it has barely been used in a clever gameplay way this gen.

In addition to the weight it's also drains the batteries a lot quicker. It would be nice to have an option to buy a controller without it as there a quite a few games out there that have no option to turn it off.
Haunted
(05-04-2012, 04:04 PM)
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As mentioned before, there is (or rather, has been). If you can think of it, there's a good chance someone in PC gaming or modding has already done it.

That said, the Novint Falcon is the most badass peripheral I've ever seen. That is some cyberspace looking shit right there.
Last edited by Haunted; 05-04-2012 at 04:06 PM.
Orayn
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Felix Lighter

I think if the analog stick was horizontal instead of vertical it would be more comfortable. The issue then would be to counteract the force your thumb would be exerting horizontally to prevent it from sliding.

Ideally, you'd be able to adjust it. I could see myself using one around 30 degrees from the vertical.
revolverjgw
Banned
(05-04-2012, 04:06 PM)
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I've been disabling force feedback since like 1998.
abasm
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:08 PM)
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A rumbling mouse would compromise input--it would be as if the rumble motor in your controller caused your analog sticks to drift. A rumbling keyboard...well, it might work, but considering how loose key caps are compared to buttons, it would probably make a lot of noise...not to mention the fact that the vibrations would also transfer to the mouse.

Really, the only feasible solution would be an external vibrator--like the "trance" vibrator in Rez/Child of Eden. Hell, you could probably rig this up by taping a 360 controller to the underside of your seat.
YourMaster
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:18 PM)
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I'd love a force feedback mouse, more so for normal use than for gaming. Make me feel the OK button.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
(05-04-2012, 04:20 PM)
If you have PC, try this thing. That's what real force feedback should be like. Playing Portal with it is really great.

Last edited by Lord Error; 05-04-2012 at 04:25 PM.
nincompoop
Banned
(05-04-2012, 04:21 PM)
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Because force feedback is an idiotic feature.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
(05-04-2012, 04:26 PM)

Originally Posted by nincompoop

Because force feedback is an idiotic feature.

You must be a big subscriber to a Kinect controller-less paradigm, driving with your hands holding empty air, etc. then.
Orayn
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by YourMaster

I'd love a force feedback mouse, more so for normal use than for gaming. Make me feel the OK button.

It'd be interesting to get some sort of haptic feedback that isn't just straight rumble. I wonder technology that uses conduction through your fingertips to simulate texture will mature..?

Originally Posted by nincompoop

Because force feedback is an idiotic feature.

Originally Posted by Lord Error

You must be a big subscriber to a Kinect controller-less paradigm, driving with your hands holding empty air, etc. then.

Yep. Using any sort of hardware button, slider, dial, knob, etc. is a form of feedback. There are just good and bad ways of implementing it. Most agree that rumble would be a poor addition to a mouse due to its reliance on being held relatively steady with the whole hand.
Last edited by Orayn; 05-04-2012 at 04:28 PM.
flyinpiranha
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by nincompoop

Because force feedback is an idiotic feature.

My GT2 wheel setup says otherwise. Playing without FF on a wheel setup, or a controller IMO is like sex without a partner. It works, but it's not as good.
Akuun
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:32 PM)
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Especially in PC shooters it could add a lot because there it's almost "too easy" to aim and a little bit of force feedback would force you to work a bit more for your kills.

I don't think it's necessary. Making the mouse rumble to throw off your aim sounds like a different version of covering the screen in blood/making the screen shake like crazy to throw off your aim. There is some argument for them in certain situations (if you get hit, of course you're going to move/stumble instead of staying perfectly steady), but it's annoying as hell if it was added needlessly.

There are already established ways of making you work to aim properly in games such as recoil, sniper barrel waving and anticipation of projectile trajectories. The reason why it feels so easy these days is because there are now many game mechanics that try to make aiming easier, such as:
  • hitscan weapons
  • the abundance of cover to plan out your shots
  • the occasional ability to aim properly from behind cover before you pop out
  • slow or stationary enemies that just pop up from cover in the same places over and over again
The mouse itself is not "too easy" as an aiming device.
FrenchToastDisciple
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:44 PM)
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To actually add to the immersion, rumble would have to be so strong that your batteries would run out in like 15 minutes if you were using a wireless device. Also, it would require so much practice to actually control the device you're using, that most games wouldn't be as fun. I don't mind rumble, but I wouldn't say it really makes me feel closer to the game
jwhit28
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:45 PM)
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Why haven't controllers gotten actual force feedback instead of just vibration. I want analogue sticks that resist.
King_Moc
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:50 PM)
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A mouse is all about precision. Rumble would ruin that.

Originally Posted by Aquavelvaman

When are we going to get pressure-sensitive analogue keyboards?

This. Or at least some sort of analogue stick. I feel its the one area that console game have the better solution.
plagiarize
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:55 PM)
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I had an ifeel Logitech mouse with forcefeedback. I enjoyed it. It simulated textures in black and white and rumbles in fps games.

The texture simulation was neat.

It didn't hurt precision in anything.
GuitarAtomik
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:56 PM)
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I always find it weird when people actively dislike rumble. When it's used right it can add so much more to a game and I think I've only played maybe two games ever that used it "wrong".

That said, I don't know how you would implement it in a mouse without making it annoyingly loud against the control surface. Maybe if you just made it more subtle.

EDIT: I also don't see why it couldn't be implemented without messing with precision. There are a bunch of different levels of force feedback.
Tenck
Member
(05-04-2012, 04:58 PM)
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I like how we've praised the PC for tight and accurate controls, and OP just says 'fuck it if it messes up your aim a bit.'

Any other 'bright' ideas you'd like to share?

And analogue movement for PC? We have Xbox360 controls for that already.
Thrakier
Member
(05-04-2012, 05:00 PM)

Originally Posted by Akuun

[/LIST]The mouse itself is not "too easy" as an aiming device.

Compared to the real thing? Sure, it is. Not even a solider on Speed AND Steroids could wave around weapons like you do in your average *realsitic* shooter (arcade settings NOT included). So yeah. The same is true for controllers, though.

Novint Falcon looks like it's able to reproduce a much more realistic feeling. Obviously that's much better than your standard rumble, which only would be a small step in the right direction.

But as I read this thread, I kinda get while no one is innovating the pc game controls, despite they are around for . There is just no audience for it, no interest in better (read: more immersive/real, add sense for touch, FF etc.) control input methods. People just want to stick to what they are used to for decades now. That's understandable, I guess.

I'm really looking forward to what console manufcatures try next. Nintendo brought some movement to the whole thing which is nice, even though I don't like the Wii. I hope the future isn't the kinect bullshit because that's kinda the opposite I'm looking for (but there's the possibility to use kinect tech in a different, better way obviously). We'll see.
Tenck
Member
(05-04-2012, 05:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Thrakier

Compared to the real thing? Sure, it is. Not even a solider on Speed AND Steroids could wave around weapons like you do in your average *realsitic* shooter (arcade settings NOT included). So yeah. The same is true for controllers, though.

We're talking about video games, not real life. No point in comparing both when they'll never be close to comparison.
Unicorn
Member
(05-04-2012, 05:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aquavelvaman

When are we going to get pressure-sensitive analogue keyboards?

Is it bad that I actually want this?
KKRT00
Member
(05-04-2012, 05:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Thrakier

I really do think that rumble adds a lot to the overall gameplay, especially when you fire guns. OK, when you don't have it you may not miss much but the moment you play with rumble it's always like "aaah...there you go.". So much better, more immersive. You feel more connected to the game. Especially in PC shooters it could add a lot because there it's almost "too easy" to aim and a little bit of force feedback would force you to work a bit more for your kills.

I turn rumble off on everything i play. I think its stupid gimmick that doesnt add anything to feeling and can mess up reaction time or aiming.

BTW I dont even like vibration function in phones :)
Last edited by KKRT00; 05-04-2012 at 05:21 PM.
Orayn
Member
(05-04-2012, 05:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by Unicorn

Is it bad that I actually want this?

Depends on how it's implemented, really. Barely-analog membrane buttons like the DualShock 2 would suck, but a linear, mechanical pressure sensor that felt like a Cherry MX Red keyswitch? I'd try it.

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