[shadyspace]

So what's after Thanos...Beyonder? Can we show Spiderman getting his black costume? LOL

Has to be Ultron.

[ReiGun]

Has to be Ultron.

Then Kang.

[shadyspace]

Then Kang.

Yep. Avengers 3=Avengers Forever. Good to go.

[Tabris]

While the recent Marvel superhero movies have been fun... they hold no candle to what Nolan has done with Batman. The only thing even close is the Burton Batman but it suffers a bit from it's age now.

Now the thing that makes Nolan's Batman (specifically Dark Knight) so amazing is you can take out the Batman out of it (and instead had a story about a masked vigilante, a crazy criminal, an incorruptible cop, and rise/fall of a state attourney), and it would be an amazing movie by itself. I don't think you can say the same thing about these Marvel movies.

So point is, doesn't matter the superhero, even if you have a weak superhero, make a good movie and it doesn't matter.

[Log4Girlz]

While the recent Marvel superhero movies have been fun... they hold no candle to what Nolan has done with Batman. The only thing even close is the Burton Batman but it suffers a bit from it's age now. Now the thing that makes Nolan's Batman (specifically Dark Knight) so amazing is you can take out the Batman out of it (and instead had a story about a masked vigilante, a crazy criminal, an incorruptible cop, and rise/fall of a state attourney), and it would be an amazing movie by itself. I don't think you can say the same thing about these Marvel movies. So point is, doesn't matter the superhero, even if you have a weak superhero, make a good movie and it doesn't matter.

Avengers is even more impressive in its own way. 6 goddamn heroes and he managed to juggle them all.

[Boombloxer]

it's his best arc...because everyone in the Marvel Universe had to help stop him. rare in the Marvel Universe have there been story arcs where one man had to be stopped by the entire Marvel superhero universe, so it's memorable. But he's powerful enough without it to kick much ass. as of right now, we have like...9 heroes introduced in movies between The Avengers and the FF. That's just not enough to introduce a storyline where he actually acquires the Gauntlet. Maybe he wants it and they keep him from it. I'm' fine with that. But if he's going to have it, they would have to introduce a ton of new heroes between now and Avengers 2. I don't think that's going to happen, which is why I don't think the Gauntlet will come into play. At least, not as anything more than something he'd like to have that he can't get his hands on.

I actually think they'll just tone down the Gauntlet's power level some, same as they did with the Cosmic Cube.

Now the thing that makes Nolan's Batman (specifically Dark Knight) so amazing is you can take out the Batman out of it (and instead had a story about a masked vigilante, a crazy criminal, an incorruptible cop, and rise/fall of a state attourney), and it would be an amazing movie by itself. I don't think you can say the same thing about these Marvel movies.

That's all well and good, but the actual fight scenes are better in the Avengers. I hold both the Dark Knight and The Avengers on equal footing as far as great movies.

[Tabris]

Avengers is even more impressive in its own way. 6 goddamn heroes and he managed to juggle them all.

You can't take out the superheroes out of that movie though. You could with The Dark Knight.

[Dreams-Visions]

I actually think they'll just tone down the Gauntlet's power level some, same as they did with the Cosmic Cube.

Maybe so. But then...it's not as fun that way. But certainly more do-able for a movie.

I guess just knowing that Thanos with the Gauntlet is only second in power to Living Tribunal and the God character of Marvel, making it less than that takes something away. Why not just make up a new item or object of his desire that has a lot of power (but not as much as the Gauntlet)?

idk

[Razgriz-Specter]

I would die if they made a live action Mask of the Phantasm


Would actually be a quick and easy semi-origin story for them.

[Tabris]

I don't want DC to do a damn thing as I don't want that Superhero shit (harsh words as I did enjoy those Marvel superhero films but as I mentioned before, doesn't compare) in my Batman movies!

[Razgriz-Specter]

I don't want DC to do a damn thing as I don't want that Superhero shit in my Batman movies!

Batman is ending though.

Would the general audience consider Batman Beyond an Iron Man knock off I wonder.

[Tabris]

Batman is ending though.

The trilogy. Who knows? JGL may be "Nightwing" and it becomes a new trilogy? If it's confirmed he's not that, don't tell me as I don't want to know yet.

The problem is there isn't another DC superhero where you can tone down the superhero angle of it. Superman, how can you make that realistic? You can make it more gritty which I hope they do, but if Batman is ending, then that's the last of the "realistic" superhero stories.

[hamchan]

You can't take out the superheroes out of that movie though. You could with The Dark Knight.

What a weird criteria to determine the quality of a superhero movie.

[Tabris]

What a perfect criteria to determine the quality of a movie.

Fixed. It's a movie before it's a superhero movie. These Marvel movies don't realize that and just ram the superhero part in your face which is good in it's own way as it's very entertaining, but it's not memorable like The Dark Knight was for just being an amazing movie by itself.

[crimsonspider89]

Hard as hell to tone down Supes and the other members of the JL.

And if the Superman is gritty I will bitch like no one's business since Superman is not supposed to be gritty.

And Nolan hates Robin so no Nightwing movie. Yeah, why I want him off. He doesn't respect the medium enough to do research on the Robins. Specifically Dick.

[ReiGun]

The problem is there isn't another DC superhero where you can tone down the superhero angle of it. Superman, how can you make that realistic? You can make it more gritty which I hope they do, but if Batman is ending, then that's the last of the "realistic" superhero stories.

But not every superhero needs realism.

[Razgriz-Specter]

Its kinda funny because almost everyone that actually wants a new Superman movie wants him to be overpowered.
screw Returns people want him punching or being thrown through buildings,etc.

[Log4Girlz]

You can't take out the superheroes out of that movie though. You could with The Dark Knight.

That's impressive in its own way, because ultimately Nolan's take is making a Batman movie that wasn't reliant on a Superhero doing Superhero things. This movie does...with 6 of them. Most directors fail with even just 1 :/

[crimsonspider89]

We want Superman to be shown as larger than life but Clark as a humble mild mannered country boy.

If Flash gets made I want him to beat his first villain by speed stealing, I want WW going up against Ares and other greek gods and winning, I wanna see her throw a semi at a god with ease. Aquaman, I wanna see him nosedive an opponent with a battleship.

Yeah, we want crazy ass shit in DC but show them with problems themselves.

[Boombloxer]

Fixed. It's a movie before it's a superhero movie. These Marvel movies don't realize that and just ram the superhero part in your face which is good in it's own way as it's very entertaining, but it's not memorable like The Dark Knight was for just being an amazing movie by itself.

Again, to some peopleit matters, to others it doesn't.

I don't hold a superhero film up to a standard by seeing how well they work by taking the hero out. Makes no sense.

Maybe so. But then...it's not as fun that way. But certainly more do-able for a movie. I guess just knowing that Thanos with the Gauntlet is only second in power to Living Tribunal and the God character of Marvel, making it less than that takes something away. Why not just make up a new item or object of his desire that has a lot of power (but not as much as the Gauntlet)? idk

There has to be some tie-in to the comics, and something they can stick in another movie. Suppose Thor 2 is about the Gauntlet?

We'll see, I'll be there Day 1 regardless.

[3pheMeraLmiX]

Fixed. It's a movie before it's a superhero movie. These Marvel movies don't realize that and just ram the superhero part in your face which is good in it's own way as it's very entertaining, but it's not memorable like The Dark Knight was for just being an amazing movie by itself.

I don't think you can interchange parts like that. The character iconic natures are equally as important and difficult to juggle, and there's like 9 major characters, so it's not the same thing.

[Tabris]

If Flash gets made I want him to beat his first villain by speed stealing, I want WW going up against Ares and other greek gods and winning, I wanna see her throw a semi at a god with ease. Aquaman, I wanna see him nosedive an opponent with a battleship. Yeah, we want crazy ass shit in DC but show them with problems themselves.

Ugh, I hate all of that. Sure they would make some fun movies, but would any of them actually be good on their own merits outside of the comic book nostalgia as a kid? Less likely.

[HK-47]

But not every superhero needs realism.

Superman: Secret Identity movie

[Tabris]

Superman: Secret Identity movie

You joke but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLuXJL2GCgk is better than a lot of these movies :)

[ReiGun]

Superman: Secret Identity movie

........

Okay. You got me.

[crimsonspider89]

If done right yes. If you remove the superhero portion then what is the point of the name? That is my big issue with DK TBH. Just feels like a gritty crime thriller.

IF you removed Batman, the movie would not change for the worse. It may actually change for the BETTER. That forgoes a golden rule: The protagonist of any story must be memorable in someway and Nolan's Batman is not at all.

Like I want WW shown trying to adapt to normal civilization with an alter ego as well as learning of say Ares plan to entice a massive war. Aquaman reveals Atlantis and tries to promote green technology among the surface dwellers but is met with resistance and mocking bringing out his rage.

Flash becomes the Flash after watching his mother being murdered by a blind of light. And Flash constantly wonders how different he would be if his mother was alive and have self confidence issues and show him having trouble controlling his speed.

The struggle with said flaws is what makes a superhero movie a memorable superhero movie.

Nolan makes good gritty crime movies but as a superhero movie, it lacks.

[evil solrac v3.0]

Nobody can even make a kickass Wonder Woman comic.

wrong.

[Tabris]

That's because it's not a superhero film, that's my point, and thank god.

Superhero films are generally corny and "campy", which makes sense based on their source material. They are supposed to be. I'm just not a fan. I want to see interesting grounded takes on that source material, as the overall ideas are interesting until you get down to the individual stories where it's all just pretty immature (I know there's a lot of artists that have done interesting stories with these characters in later comic books but the original stuff is almost all intended for a kids audience)

[Log4Girlz]

That's because it's not a superhero film, that's my point, and thank god. Superhero films are generally corny and "campy", which makes sense based on their source material. They are supposed to be. I'm just not a fan. I want to see interesting grounded takes on that source material, as the overall ideas are interesting until you get down to the individual stories where it's all superficial (I know there's a lot of artists that have done interesting stories with these characters in later comic books but the original stuff is almost all superficial)

Well then all you are left with are non-powered heroes.

[Tabris]

Well then all you are left with are non-powered heroes.

Nope. You can do powered heroes. Look at a recent movie like Chronicle to get an idea of how you can ground superhero powers. (that movie had a whole slew of issues but you get what I mean) Realistic is the wrong word, believable is the right word. I can believe Superman is from dying planet sent here as the supposed last survivor of his race, but ground his story, make it relatable.

[crimsonspider89]

Watchmen is gritty yet keeps the superhero vibe. Doesn't have to be campy or joke filled. I don't expect a Batman movie to be campy or a Punisher movie to be campy.

Nolan went TOO far with the realism. He removed too much of the what if element and he could of kept some sci fi themes in the movies with just tinkering a couple laws that were passed.

Make a brief mention. Just because it needs to be realistic does not mean it needs to be exactly like the real world.

And I was just exaggerating with the feats. I want to see some amazing action packed and crazy ass stunts but if it is too realistic, then it does not stick to the material in question and that is the issue with Nolan Batman. TOO realistic and he left out Bruce's intelligent and strategic side which are vital to his character. And by leaving out Robin, he leaves out the caring side of Bruce which is fundamental to who he is. May be tough but he is a deeply caring person.

Those are the issues. And the degree of realism in Nolan Batman would not work with the other DC heroes and probably the reason for the reboot is Nolan realized this.

[Tabris]

Watchman is believable. The only actual "superhero" is Dr.Manhatten and his story is about his disconnect with humanity due to those powers until that moment on Mars.

You don't see any level of that character with Superman.

Also you definitely see Bruce Wayne's intelligence in Nolan's movies. There's quite a number of scenes dedicated to it actually, usually the investigation scenes.

[HK-47]

Watchman is believable. The only actual "superhero" is Dr.Manhatten and the story is about his disconnect with humanity until that moment on Mars. You don't see any level of that character with Superman.

Then maybe you arent reading the right stories.

[Tabris]

Then maybe you arent reading the right stories.

I knew this would be mentioned.

Tell me a single one of these main Marvel or DC superheroes where the original source has character depth. There's been artists that have done so after, but they still have to work with a source that's superficial and the only way to really change that is to not be afraid to completely change up the source which these Marvel movies aren't really doing that much.

EDIT - I haven't read comics since I was like 13 except for stand out graphic novels like Watchmen for example (before movie)

[crimsonspider89]

The term superhero is used loosely. Look up how many heroes use gadgets or have no powers. Quite a bit. How many heroes in Watchmen did that?

My point which you missed entirely, is a superhero movie does not have to be campy.

It can be dark and gritty and still keep the superhero vibe.

Which the Nolan Batman movies specifically Dark Knight DID NOT. Batman Begins, did. Had some fictional elements that helped keep the superhero feel.

I don't want the Superman/WW/Aquaman movies to be campy, Flash sure he jokes. I want them to have serious tones but keep the superhero feel.

As Clark, he needs to feel out of place due to his upbringing and even more out of place as Superman. He needs to be shown as lonely at several times of the movie and even contemplate leaving us to our own methods.

[Tim the Wiz]

In my eyes, he was. Considering he's been writing like a college undergrad for two decades, it's nice to see him grow up just a little bit.

This is some Emperor's New Clothes bullshit. Avengers is Whedon being Whedon. And he's always been good and able to work within the context of the story he's telling. I'm 90% certain most people conflate the bad episodes or arcs of Buffy/Angel/Firefly/Dollhouse they've seen (there's definitely a decent number) with "Whedon's shtick", except that's not how TV works. Whedon isn't Sorkin or JMS: he wasn't a showrunner on every season of those shows, or the writer on the majority of the episodes. Everyone who read his run on X-Men and saw how he could handle a superhero ensemble knew he wouldn't fuck this up.

What really impressed me with Avengers is how Whedon handled the action. Serenity was competent with the budget involved, I suppose, but Avengers was a cut above.

[Phoenician_Viking]

It´s really a bad idea for JL movie. I watch JL, and JLU and i can say that these characters have almost zero chemistry together. The only exiting enemy that would be interesting for JL is Darkseid.

[remnant]

This is some Emperor's New Clothes bullshit. Avengers is Whedon being Whedon. And he's always been good and able to work within the context of the story he's telling. I'm 90% certain most people conflate the bad episodes or arcs of Buffy/Angel/Firefly/Dollhouse they've seen (there's definitely a decent number) with "Whedon's shtick", except that's not how TV works. Whedon isn't Sorkin or JMS: he wasn't a showrunner on every season of those shows, or the writer on the majority of the episodes. Everyone who read his run on X-Men and saw how he could handle a superhero ensemble knew he wouldn't fuck this up. What really impressed me with Avengers is how Whedon handled the action. Serenity was competent with the budget involved, I suppose, but Avengers was a cut above.

I want to know who directed and story boarded the action scenes. That shit was incredible and I don't believe Whedon did that all himself.

[Criminal Upper]

DC as a whole, has ALWAYS seemed old and busted to me. Even as a kid, aside from Batman, every single hero never appealed to me.

[Glass Rebel]

DC as a whole, has ALWAYS seemed old and busted to me. Even as a kid, aside from Batman, every single hero never appealed to me.

Same. I want Batman Beyond after Nolan and JLA doesn't fit in that picture so fuck JLA.

[Penguin]

It´s really a bad idea for JL movie. I watch JL, and JLU and i can say that these characters have almost zero chemistry together. The only exiting enemy that would be interesting for JL is Darkseid.

This seems like an odd complaint.
I mean.. as a fan of the show, the DTVs and the comics. I always felt the League has had terrific chemistry. Some of the character moments is what drove the show.
Its why Hawkgirl's betrayal at the end of season 2 meant so much, or Batman and Superman's friendly rivarly.
If want to go with recent comics the Hal/Bruce dynamic is always fun.

DC as a whole, has ALWAYS seemed old and busted to me. Even as a kid, aside from Batman, every single hero never appealed to me.

That is a LOT of characters to hate. I mean EVERY single one? I assume you're mostly talking about the bigger heroes, though could be wrong.

As for villains, DC has a lot of interesting ones. I mean most likely will be pulled from Superman's playbook, but you have Luthor who could fit a similar mold to Loki or Darkseid. You have Sinestro who could bring the fear. You have Brainiac and the likes.

More importantly, if you really want to go down the path you have the Legion of Doom/Injustice League/Secret Society aspect as well. And personally, where I would go for a sequel.

And finally, there's always the government angle with Checkmate or the Suicide Squad.

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Nolan went TOO far with the realism.

And yet, we still wound up with the super-microwave cannon that doesn't harm humans at all, the ancient ninja conspiracy that is responsible for the downfall of all major civilizations, extracting fingerprints from shattered bullet fragments in a wall, and the Wayne computer that somehow hijacks every cell phone in Gotham, turning them all into voice-recognition devices that, through fucking magic, also installs the hardware necessary to turn them into sonar-devices so Batman can see around corners or something. I wonder if anybody in the city noticed the cellular network grinding to a halt under the weight of the sudden, massive spike in data usage.

[Log4Girlz]

Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern are unspeakably boring.

Martian Manhunter is the worst. Ridiculously over powered.

[KevinCow]

How to make good DC character and Justice League movies:

Step 1: Watch the DCAU.
Step 2: Do that in live action.

Why is that so hard?

Why was Green Lantern so bad?


As far as the Superman Problem in a Justice League movie, that's easy to solve. Make Superman like his DCAU incarnation, in that he's still ridiculously powerful, but not quite as invulnerable as he is typically portrayed, so he can still get the shit beat out of him. And then just do what The Avengers, where Captain America and even Black Widow and Hawkeye still had something to do and were totally badass despite the fact that Hulk, Thor, and Iron Man were all flying around and tearing shit up.

[Tedesco!]

Dont Make Marvel and Whedon bust out Avengers: West Coast or Great Lakes Avengers!

I would love to see Whedon's take on Squirrel Girl

[WillyFive]

How to make good DC character and Justice League movies: Step 1: Watch the DCAU. Step 2: Do that in live action. Why is that so hard? Why was Green Lantern so bad?

Yeah. The DCAU formula could have easily worked even with Nolan's universe, just as they did with Batman: TAS in the DCAU.

[remnant]

How to make good DC character and Justice League movies: Step 1: Watch the DCAU. Step 2: Do that in live action. Why is that so hard? Why was Green Lantern so bad? As far as the Superman Problem in a Justice League movie, that's easy to solve. Make Superman like his DCAU incarnation, in that he's still ridiculously powerful, but not quite as invulnerable as he is typically portrayed, so he can still get the shit beat out of him. And then just do what The Avengers, where Captain America and even Black Widow and Hawkeye still had something to do and were totally badass despite the fact that Hulk, Thor, and Iron Man were all flying around and tearing shit up.

DCAU is fanservice. It appeals to the comic going crowd but it doesn't have the crossover appeal that the marvel movie has. They need to take their characters and mold them for today's audiences, not copy the DCAU.

[DoctorWho]

DCAU is fanservice. It appeals to the comic going crowd but it doesn't have the crossover appeal that the marvel movie has. They need to take their characters and mold them for today's audiences, not copy the DCAU.

I think DCAU is just fine for today's audience. There's nothing out of place at all.

[remnant]

I think DCAU is just fine for today's audience. There's nothing out of place at all.

It's fine for an audience that grew up watching the cartoons directed by one guy for almost their entire life, but for the mass market no it wouldn't work. The characters have to be re-introduced to their respected audiences. That was one of the big difference between the early marvel movies that worked(Spider-man, X-men, etc) and those that didn't (FF, Daredevil) you can't expect your audience to just know these characters.

WB if they were wise would have started production on movies that do for Wonder Woman, flash and Green lantern what Ironman, Cap and Thor did for their universes. Now they were to late and they have to catch up by going backwards. They put themselves in a shitty position.

[GraveRobberX]

WB if they were wise would have started production on movies that do for Wonder Woman, flash and Green lantern what Ironman, Cap and Thor did for their universes. Now they were to late and they have to catch up by going backwards. They put themselves in a shitty position.

Also the roadblock Green Latern created, that movie brought everything to a halt