[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Still waiting on a live action The Dark Knight Returns. Directed by Paul Verhoeven.

That would be about the best thing ever.

[Solo]

That would be about the best thing ever.

Pretty much how I feel. Which is why I know it would never happen. They give that to Michael Bay or someone of that ilk who doesn't know the first thing about satire and social commentary.

[Penguin]

He's right. DC's most recognizable characters are all way too overpowered.

To be fair, I think they compensate by making their villains just as strong.


And to be fair, we've seen its possible to make the team compelling. We have 5 seasons of Justice League and several DTVs that do a good job of it.

Now if you want to talk about the budget to make that a reality.. that's a whole different ball game.

[Devolution]

But The Shadow and Green Hornet were kind of shitty.

Batman is an every man despite being rich because he is without powers. People gravitate to that. I think that's why the Nolan movies were as successful as they were with general audiences. He presented our world and Batman running right through it.

[shira]

JLA basically has one relevant hero: Batman.

I know this would never happen but I would like to see a batman x marvel crossover.

[Sinatar]

I know this would never happen but I would like to see a batman x marvel crossover.

[Tookay]

Begins is Year One with stuff cut out. Also JLA bats does not equal standalone bats. They are honestly two completely different characters. I still can't honestly understand the mainstream draw of Batman. He's a brooding psychopath who doesn't really have any major character flaws other than that he's a psychopath.

Because he's a damaged person who - instead of using his considerable rage to kill and truly fall into the abyss like his rogues - manages to harness his grief as a vehicle to make a corrupt city a better place by selflessly committing himself to a life of lonelines and constant battle, just to inspire others to fight back.

What is so difficult to get?

[Hot Coldman]

I know this would never happen but I would like to see a batman x marvel crossover.

JLA/Avengers is pretty much the next huge milestone in comic books on the big screen.

[HK-47]

Timm and Dini didn't have that problem.

Well the DCAU is better than either company's movie output put together. And thats with the owerpowered DC characters (strangely I find DC charcters at their best are better than Marvel characters at their best [other than Daredevil, though they really need to give that guy a break.] Marvel it too stuck on continuity sometimes or maybe DC just gets lucky with more high point work)

[Crewnh]

But he is right! That's the difference between DC and Marvel. DC characters are above men and marvel characters are broken people. Sweeping generality but for the JLA it's pretty spot on

Yeah, maybe if we were still in the 60s.

[Scullibundo]

Maybe we'll get Bickle-style homeless Batman if Aronofsky comes back to do his version!

[Router]

Sort of agree with Whedon.

[shadyspace]

And to be fair, we've seen its possible to make the team compelling. We have 5 seasons of Justice League and several DTVs that do a good job of it.

Of course it's possible. It's been done many times over in the comics and the cartoons you mentioned. JLA's had some fantastic stories. Doesn't change the fact that all of their most publically known characters would look fucking ridiculous in live-action.

[Solo]

Aronofsky oughta finally do Batman. Was gonna do it before Nolan, was gonna do Wolverine, etc. Even if its not Batman, I'd just love to see him do any superhero.

[Escape Goat]

Balancing their super powers is only part of the problem. Its crafting a story that resonates with each character and blends well together. Its about the story, stupid.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

He's right.

For the last ten years (if not more), DC has been trying their fucking hardest to make their characters human and relatable and not obscenely ridiculous in the context of the real world (something Whedon also finally did with his run on X-Men).

That, in DC language, means rape.

[BertramCooper]

Balancing their super powers is only part of the problem. Its crafting a story that resonates with each character and blends well together. Its about the story, stupid.

What didn't you find compelling about Greg Lantern?

[ZombieFred]

DC might have some heroes that would be hard to bring them to the modern screen but DC will always trump Marvel in every direction with their heroines and female library.

[Penguin]

Of course it's possible. It's been done many times over in the comics and the cartoons you mentioned. JLA's had some fantastic stories. Doesn't change the fact that all of their most publically known characters would look fucking ridiculous in live-action.

That's another issue to be fair, but again smart costume design (And I don't mean dressing them in all black like the X-men) could cover it up

And really, I think only The Flash and Superman would be an issue.
We've seen Bats. Wonder Woman.. can just get some pants.. we've seen GL.. and.. okay maybe Aquaman

[Guzim]

Also, Whedon pitched Batman and almost did Wonder Woman. Kind of funny, now.

Whedon's pitch for Batman sounded terrible. WB made the right decision to not let him do it.

[TheKaeptain]

Begins is Year One with stuff cut out. Also JLA bats does not equal standalone bats. They are honestly two completely different characters. I still can't honestly understand the mainstream draw of Batman. He's a brooding psychopath who doesn't really have any major character flaws other than that he's a psychopath.

You should... I don't know...

Read the comics about the character you're talking about. Batman is nowhere close to being a psychopath. The Punisher is a psychopath, The Batman isn't.

[shadyspace]

That's another issue to be fair, but again smart costume design (And I don't mean dressing them in all black like the X-men) could cover it up And really, I think only The Flash and Superman would be an issue. We've seen Bats. Wonder Woman.. can just get some pants.. we've seen GL.. and.. okay maybe Aquaman

Costumes are part of it but I'm referring to their powers more than anything.

[Escape Goat]

What didn't you find compelling about Greg Lantern?

What you talkin aboot?

[Crewnh]

He's right. For the last ten years (if not more), DC has been trying their fucking hardest to make their characters human and relatable. That, in DC language, means rape.

As opposed to marvel characters selling their marriage and the soul of their unborn child to a devil analogue.

Yeah, so relatable. Both companies have done stupid shit.

And by my count, Marvel has worse instances of making their characters "deep" with rape. Or are you pretending Ms. Marvel, Black Cat, Hawk eye, etc didn't happen?

[Penguin]

Costumes are part of it but I'm referring to their powers more than anything.

Again, if you craft a story that makes sense, then it won't be a problem.
The issue is always trying to give Batman something to do. Because if you can take on Superman.. Batman would be no issue.

[HK-47]

Of course it's possible. It's been done many times over in the comics and the cartoons you mentioned. JLA's had some fantastic stories. Doesn't change the fact that all of their most publically known characters would look fucking ridiculous in live-action.

DC characters definitely benefit from being animated. But then again, can you even really change the uniforms and powers when they are so iconic?

[Solo]

You know, it occurs to me that we get Avengers, Spider-Man and Batman movies this year, and Iron Man, Superman and Thor movies next year. That's two pretty solid years. For both DC and Marvel.

[HK-47]

Again, if you craft a story that makes sense, then it won't be a problem. The issue is always trying to give Batman something to do. Because if you can take on Superman.. Batman would be no issue.

Superman stalls so Batman can prep.

[Penguin]

You know, it occurs to me that we get Avengers, Spider-Man and Batman movies this year, and Iron Man, Superman and Thor movies next year. That's two pretty solid years. For both DC and Marvel.

Well for Marvel, still questionable on how Superman is going to turn out.

Superman stalls so Batman can prep.

Isn't it usually the other way around?

[Router]

I'm really going to be pissed if Man of Steel doesn't set the tone for a unified DC film universe.

I also want I see a more true to te comics batman. I har had enough of them trying to make it too realistic in the movies. I'm also sick of guys running around in black rubber suits. They can make spider-man look not retarded on film then why can't they do batman properly?

[BertramCooper]

Well for Marvel, still questionable on how Superman is going to turn out.

It's Zack Snyder.

What could possibly go wrong?

[hamchan]

Batman is the only thing DC has managed to pull off well and that's just because of Nolan. Hopefully the future Superman film turns out good but who knows. I think the fun style of the Marvel movies could work for a lot of non-Batman DC heroes instead of them trying to be so serious all the time.

[Escape Goat]

You know, it occurs to me that we get Avengers, Spider-Man and Batman movies this year, and Iron Man, Superman and Thor movies next year. That's two pretty solid years. For both DC and Marvel.

1 Superman movie coming off the heels of Superman Returns is solid?

:-/

[shadyspace]

Again, if you craft a story that makes sense, then it won't be a problem. The issue is always trying to give Batman something to do. Because if you can take on Superman.. Batman would be no issue.

How do you make GL and The Flash believable, but more importantly badass instead of ridiculous? The person who figures out how to do that but at the same time not nerf the characters to unrecognizability will become a rich dude.

[Tookay]

Anyway, beyond the inflammatory thread title (can we please knock it off with those?), Whedon is right. There's a reason why the attempt to get the JLA movie went completely south, beyond just production problems. DC's characters seem much less relatable than Marvel's and, worse than that, are much more hokey to mainstream audiences. It'd take a massive amount of effort to make them work.

[HK-47]

I'm really going to be pissed if Man of Steel doesn't set the tone for a unified DC film universe. I also want I see a more true to te comics batman. I har had enough of them trying to make it too realistic in the movies. I'm also sick of guys running around in black rubber suits. They can make spider-man look not retarded on film then why can't they do batman properly?

Because spiderman's build and suit are perfect for live action. Also its tres stylish.

[BertramCooper]

Anyway, beyond the inflammatory thread title (can we please knock it off with those?)...

People need to learn that you only use quotation marks when it's an actual quotation. (It's not that difficult to understand, really.)

Snarky paraphrases are fine with me; just don't put it in quotes.

[Penguin]

How do you make GL and The Flash believable, but more importantly badass instead of ridiculous? The person who figures out how to do that but at the same time not nerf the characters to unrecognizability will become a rich dude.

Well I think the Flash would be an issue not for his costume nor his powers.. but showing it on screen.. super speed is always such a terrible powers in movies not called The Incredibles.

Because its usually just blurring motion.. or first person view...

As for Green Lantern, I don't think there is anything inherently goofy about the character. I would just use John Stewart's version since he tends to make simple and workable constructs like shields and beams. Easy on the special effects, doesn't look goofy and he adds diversity.

[Tookay]

I also want I see a more true to te comics batman. I har had enough of them trying to make it too realistic in the movies. I'm also sick of guys running around in black rubber suits. They can make spider-man look not retarded on film then why can't they do batman properly?

[Penguin]

Let's not make fun of Tobey Macquire here.. he was born that way!

[Razgriz-Specter]

DC has it tough if they really want a Justice League movie Marvel style.

Batman would have to be rebooted after TDKR
Superman would need another reboot and its latest one isn't even out yet
Green Lantern DEAD wont see another for at least 10 years
Flash wont even be attempted after GL bombed
Wonder Woman female hero = wont attempt, animated DTV was great though

and nobody cares about MM or Hawkgirl/man.

[Devolution]

The problem wasn't that the GL was unbelievable it's that the movie was written like shit.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

And by my count, Marvel has worse instances of making their characters "deep" with rape. Or are you pretending Ms. Marvel, Black Cat, Hawk eye, etc didn't happen?

I'm not a Super Fanboy, I couldn't begin to tell you. I was referencing a very specific instance where DC shot down the idea that Marvel was beating them due to characterization, and instead interpreted it to mean that they needed to go dark.

But, you know, if you want to completely ignore the point I was trying to make in favor of making me sound like a 40-year old manchild that can't handle "his company" being critiqued, that's fine, too.

[Escape Goat]

TV series Flash was the bomb. So was Swamp Thing. <3 90s USA Network.

Mark Hamil was the Trickster for gods sake.

[Tookay]

Let's not make fun of Tobey Macquire here.. he was born that way!

You're right; I won't make fun of his permanent man-child syndrome.

People need to learn that you only use quotation marks when it's an actual quotation. (It's not that difficult to understand, really.) Snarky paraphrases are fine with me; just don't put it in quotes.

Paraphrases are alright, but I think a lot of posters (stupidly) tend to have kneejerk reactions to inflammatory titles and it gets the discussion off to a bad start from the get-go. Hasn't happened as much in this thread, but I see it happen all the time on Gaming side.

[Crewnh]

Well the DCAU is better than either company's movie output put together. And thats with the owerpowered DC characters (strangely I find DC charcters at their best are better than Marvel characters at their best [other than Daredevil, though they really need to give that guy a break.] Marvel it too stuck on continuity sometimes or maybe DC just gets lucky with more high point work)

Mostly feel the same way. Have you been reading Waid's run on Daredevil? He's been going pretty easy on Matt after all that Shadow land nonsense.

[Trojita]

There is Whedon hate? People thought he was unproven?

I don't have enough lols.

[HK-47]

The problem wasn't that the GL was unbelievable it's that the movie was written like shit.

I think it was the lack of Mogo in the starring role.

[Ezduo]

Timm and Dini didn't have that problem.

This. Not sure I understand complaining about overpowered characters either, a common plot point across the DCAU was how the heroes could relate to the average person while floating in their giant super space station with a mega death laser pointed straight at Earth. A good writer could make it work. A good writer could also make them "relateable". The characters aren't the problem, the problem DC has had the past decade is the writing and portrayal of these characters. The Hulk had two mediocre movies and now suddenly he's back at the forefront. The Batman franchise was basically on life support on the big screen until Nolan stepped in.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

People thought he was unproven?

Well, to be fair, in Hollywood terms, he's just coming into his teen years.