[bigboss370]

DC has a harder time of it than Marvel because their characters are from an old, bygone era where characters were bigger than we were. Marvel really cracked the code in terms of ‘Oh, they're just like us.’

thats the whole fucking point of a superhero, they're not supposed to be just like us. they're supposed to be what people look up to, role models, beacons of good and hope.

[Razgriz-Specter]

I think justice league movie should really never happen. they should eache have there separate universe! It will feel strange in a live action movie where batman is fighting local thugs where as flash just plays around and travel the world in second with super man fighting aliens but asking batman for help!how would it even work ?

Watch the animated Justice League,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPHSEWul5rU
worked perfect there.

[Jorok Goldblade]

DC has it tough if they really want a Justice League movie Marvel style. Batman would have to be rebooted after TDKR Superman would need another reboot and its latest one isn't even out yet Green Lantern DEAD wont see another for at least 10 years Flash wont even be attempted after GL bombed Wonder Woman female hero = wont attempt, animated DTV was great though and nobody cares about MM or Hawkgirl/man.

I would imagine you'd stick to the big five (Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman) while placing Martian Manhunter as a background character in all of the movies, evaluating heroes to combat a threat that he sees coming. The real issue is getting writers and directors who are both competent and fans with an understanding of why their respective heroes work, which Marvel did extremely well. Green Lantern failed because it had a half-assed script from a nineties sci-fi channel movie, the most expensive modern visual effects, and the lack of knowledge of when to use them and when to use practical effects or scale them back that hasn't been seen since 2002. Also, having a female lead who can't emote was a dumb move, and using CGI for PEOPLE'S CLOTHES was just pissing money down the drain.

[ThoseDeafMutes]

they thought it was a small problem that they understood really well

So they're utterly incompetent? I'm glad we're on the same page.

[Dram]

Agreed, still no source on this? I'd also like video of the event pictured.

Here's a source. No video though.

http://voices.yahoo.com/joss-whedon-...80.html?cat=40

[MrPink93485]

I think after Man of Steel, Flash is the most reasonable choice if they wanna do this. GL will have to wait until Justice League, where they re-introduce GL sort of like the Hulk in Avengers.

[eastmen]

I've said this before, DC shouldn't be looking to their comics to establish their movie universe, they should be modeling it after the animated shows. Get the genius minds behind that to produce the movies going forward and I guarantee things will turn around.

Don't act like there haven't been alot of Marvel duds .

Horrible Marvel movies since 2000

Spider-man 3
Fantastic Four 2
Both Punishers
Dare Devil
Elecktra
X-Men 3
Wolverine
Ghost Rider 1/2

And you can argue both verisons of the hulk were terrible.


These are all on par with how bad GL was or Superman Returns (which i enjoyed much like i enjoyed the first hulk)

The thing is the number of Marvel Movies since 2000 is staggering compared to DC . DC has only really tried Superman , GL and Batman. 4 films and 2 of them did extremely well.

[Razgriz-Specter]

Better have a Wonder Woman Batman romance if it ever gets made.

[Dragonzord]

You could absolutely modernize DC costumes not to look silly.

There was some SuperMan design where he had the cloak on the side over his right arm. It made him look regal. Go with something like that. I mean, did you guys think Hawkeye was going to be wearing purple and blue in the movies?

[RagnarokX]

This. The only DC character that has ever been remotely interesting to me is batman and even that is almost 90% due to Nolan's movies.

You need to watch the entire DCAU, stat.

Batman: The Animated Series
Superman: The Animated Series
Batman Beyond
Justice League
Justice League Unlimited

You can skip Static Shock and The Zeta Project.

The Avengers may be bigger in terms of market reach, but the DCAU is truly epic.

[Fezan]

Watch the animated Justice League,

it was easily done because they had multiple seasons to flesh out characters and reasoning.plus people usually forgive cartoons.Then you also have budget constraints.green lantern had a budget of $200 mill but looked like shit.

[Vyer]

So they're utterly incompetent? I'm glad we're on the same page.

no, utterly overconfident and completely dismissive

the movie pretty much bookended with this whole point to drive it home. It's pretty straightforward.

Again, though, wrong thread for it. Probably should be discussed in the other threads.

[Fezan]

And you can argue both verisons of the hulk were terrible.

both movies were better than captain America and Thor.may be not Thor but equal or better can be said

[Penguin]

I think justice league movie should really never happen. they should eache have there separate universe! It will feel strange in a live action movie where batman is fighting local thugs where as flash just plays around and travel the world in second with super man fighting aliens but asking batman for help where as hal jordan keeps on making makes necklaces for his girlfriend!how would it even work. ?

Well on paper Hawkeye isn't needed on a team with The Hulk and Thor.. nor Black Widow for that matter, but I saw no one complaining.

You find a way to make the characters work. Granted, in comics, it tends to be Batman having the solve anything complex.

[MrPink93485]

it was easily done because they had multiple seasons to flesh out characters and reasoning.plus people usually forgive cartoons.Then you also have budget constraints.green lantern had a budget of $200 mill but looked like shit.

Well that's because they hired Sony Imageworks for the CGI. If they got ILM or Weta....

[DoctorWho]

Don't act like there haven't been alot of Marvel duds . Horrible Marvel movies since 2000 Spider-man 3 Fantastic Four 2 Both Punishers Dare Devil Elecktra X-Men 3 Wolverine Ghost Rider 1/2 And you can argue both verisons of the hulk were terrible. These are all on par with how bad GL was or Superman Returns (which i enjoyed much like i enjoyed the first hulk) The thing is the number of Marvel Movies since 2000 is staggering compared to DC . DC has only really tried Superman , GL and Batman. 4 films and 2 of them did extremely well.

I'm not arguing anything.

[eastmen]

both movies were better than captain America and Thor.may be not Thor but equal or better can be said

Really ? The ed nortian movie was a rip of the ang lee verison but actioned up. Seemed so bad to me.

I liked Captain America . I felt it was better than Iron-Man 2 and Thor.

[Boombloxer]

IT would be smart to latch onto the current Superman movie in production and use that as the branching point. Introduce a new Batman and then WW , Flash , GL into that world. They should never have went with Hal Jordan for GL , it should have been kyle since he has a good back story for film . Audiances would have bought into the movie if it started with a space battle where Jordan killed a bunch of GL's and then fights sinestro and kills him , takes the power for himself and leaves . Have a lone guardian bring the ring to kyle. Take kyles origin to the T really . End the movie with kyle opening up the fridge and finding his gf and then fighting Major force. They could have then used Hal as the big bad villian the JLA had to square off against. Flash could be done well . I think barry would work better than Wally (although I love wally's character) they could have made it a noire type film . Wonder Woman could have worked well also , but drop the whole dual identy and make it more of a clash of the titans type movie , just go whole hog. Basicly do it like Captian America , set it in the past to show where WW comes from. A lot of people claim that DC's characters are to strong that you can't tell a good story. Thats bull. There are hundreds of amazing storys in comics for these characters or they wouldn't exist. The problem is no one is taking a chance. Oh and don't let Didio or JOhns any where near the movies and they will be good

That's not the problem--the problem is that their Big 7 are harder to relate to them on a basic surface level than Marvel's characters.

Batman - Billionaire
Superman - God-like being
Wonder Woman - God-like being
Flash - SO FAST
Green Lantern - Ring that makes anything from imagination, now God-like being. Before that, fighter pilot.
Martian Manhunter - god-like alien
Aquaman - King of the seas

Easiest thing to imagine is if you can have a conversation or a beer with who you're watching. For a lot of people, that's why Marvel's characters click, and remember, decades of history to back the characters up.

The Avengers may be bigger in terms of market reach, but the DCAU is truly epic.

DCAU is god-like, but that's because they have a consistent creative team across all of those series.
They went to great lengths to depict each character as powerful, but vulnerable.

Spider-man 3 Fantastic Four 2 Both Punishers Dare Devil Elecktra X-Men 3 Wolverine Ghost Rider 1/2

Out of this list, guess how many of them are considered financial duds:

Elektra Punishers FF2 GR2

That's the real death knell--no one is asking for sequels to most of the DC films--ie anything not called Batman.

[dcdobson]

Begins is Year One with stuff cut out. Also JLA bats does not equal standalone bats. They are honestly two completely different characters. I still can't honestly understand the mainstream draw of Batman. He's a brooding psychopath who doesn't really have any major character flaws other than that he's a psychopath.

Yeah, I mean, I love Batman, but he's essentially a really judgmental rich dude with daddy issues.

[ReiGun]

You could absolutely modernize DC costumes not to look silly.

This post got me to surfing the internets, and I found some pretty decent fan made mock-ups os JL uniforms.

I think the skirt in the third one is perfect

Though, I'm not feeling the mesh design around his inner thighs/crotch


Couldn't find anything for Aquaman (not surprising, but he shouldn't be too hard) and MM (though his Earth 16 design would be perfect).

[RagnarokX]

Yeah, I mean, I love Batman, but he's essentially a really judgmental rich dude with daddy issues.

The Nolan movies really lack Batman's true greatest strength: his detective skills. That's why Batman's a badass. He can deduce anyone's weaknesses and has the resources and skill to exploit them. Batman is surrounded by super-powered gods. He's the most physically vulnerable person on his team. But he could take down just about anyone if he can prep.

[Tobor]

Those Flash and GL mockups are frigging terrible. Lol.

[Veelk]

I heard this on the Spoony Experiment, so I don't know how accurate it is, but the guy said that a Justice League movie is all but impossible to make because a bunch of different people own the IP's, not DC itself. Someone feel free to expand on this if they know anything about it.

[Pollux]

OK, so I'm looking into taking riding lessons, and I know nothing about motorcycles.

Is the Honda CBR250R a OK bike to start with? Or am I looking in the completely wrong direction? I'm not buying anything anytime in the near future, but I want to start educating myself about motorcycles and figure out what a good bike would be to start out on.

[Razgriz-Specter]

This post got me to surfing the internets, and I found some pretty decent fan made mock-ups os JL uniforms.

Looks better than Arkham and TDK besides the neck imo

sorry for the size.

[ReiGun]

OK, so I'm looking into taking riding lessons, and I know nothing about motorcycles. Is the Honda CBR250R a OK bike to start with? Or am I looking in the completely wrong direction? I'm not buying anything anytime in the near future, but I want to start educating myself about motorcycles and figure out what a good bike would be to start out on.

Get the bike Captain America rides. :P

Sorry. Couldn't resist

[Satch]

Get the bike Captain America rides. :P Sorry. Couldn't resist

Eh, I think he should go more towards Ghost Rider style.

[eastmen]

That's not the problem--the problem is that their Big 7 are harder to relate to them on a basic surface level than Marvel's characters. Batman - Billionaire Superman - God-like being Wonder Woman - God-like being Flash - SO FAST Green Lantern - Ring that makes anything from imagination, now God-like being. Before that, fighter pilot. Martian Manhunter - god-like alien Aquaman - King of the seas Easiest thing to imagine is if you can have a conversation or a beer with who you're watching. For a lot of people, that's why Marvel's characters click, and remember, decades of history to back the characters up.

You can do this for All the marvel characters also .

Captian America - Super powered soldier
Iron man - Billionaire
THOR - GOD
Hulk - GOD like being
Black widow / Hawkeye - Perfect assasians .


You can shine the light on the DCU characters in a diffrent way just like was done with the marvel characters

Batman - Orphan who watched his parents die , devotes himself to making sure that never happens to anyone else - all the while he pushes those closest to him away.

Clark Kent - An Alien who has hidden who he really is all his life and takes on the Superman persona to help the world while staying hidden as clark. The woman who he loves doesn't even know he exists because she only has eyes for his alter ego.

Wonder Woman - A girl from an island who has had no interaction with men at all

Barry Allen - A police scientest who's alter ego is at odds with his princepals.

Wally West - A young man from a broken home trying to live up to an uncle's legacy that was asicly a father to him.

Green Lantern - Kyle Rayner an irresponsable artist who find's his gf's body in his oven due to his new found power that spends his life trying to become responsible and become the hero she was helping him to become .

Martian Manhunter - the last of his race who has lived amongst us for decades becoming many diffrent humans

Aquaman - an infant banished from his home because of his race . Struggling to fit into both worlds.



There are storys in the DCU that can be told. The characters are as fresh and Marvel's characters. They just need a good writer.

Out of this list, guess how many of them are considered financial duds: Quote: Elektra Punishers FF2 GR2 That's the real death knell--no one is asking for sequels to most of the DC films--ie anything not called Batman.

The hulk did 250m on a 137m budget , its was a flop.

The incredible hulk did 263m on a 150m budget . It was a flop

Daredevil did 176m on a 78m budget

Ghost rider did 228 on a 110


Superman Returns did 391m on a 270m

[G-Fex]

What you're telling me is that you want a Sentinel movie.

Yup Sentinel is a cool guy, getting rid of those stinkin mutants one at a time.

[Khezu]

I heard this on the Spoony Experiment, so I don't know how accurate it is, but the guy said that a Justice League movie is all but impossible to make because a bunch of different people own the IP's, not DC itself. Someone feel free to expand on this if they know anything about it.

Pretty sure spoony is full of shit.

[Dram]

I heard this on the Spoony Experiment, so I don't know how accurate it is, but the guy said that a Justice League movie is all but impossible to make because a bunch of different people own the IP's, not DC itself. Someone feel free to expand on this if they know anything about it.

Warner Brothers owns DC comics so all the movie rights belong to them.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=54181

For the four decades that Warner has owned DC, the publisher of such classic comics as "Superman," "Batman" and "Wonder Woman," the New York publisher has operated largely independently of the studio. As superhero movies have become one of the most profitable genres in Hollywood, tensions between DC and Warner have contributed to the studio's inability to match the success of Marvel, which has scored on the big screen with such A-list characters as Spider-Man and lesser-known ones such as Iron Man and X-Men. "It almost appears as if Warner Bros. were just buying DC now and deciding what to do with it," Numerous DC properties, including "Wonder Woman," "Justice League" and "The Flash," have languished in development at Warner Bros. for years, with little coordination among the studio's producers and executives and the comic-book publisher. The Flash. Wonder Woman seems to have stalled. We're hoping to soon hear more on the status of the troubled Justice League waiting in the wings. Furthermore, Shazam! is supposedly coming our way. Teen Titans has been announced, but has gone mostly silent since last year. Remember Plastic Man? Aquaman is highly-anticipated, but it doesn't seem to be in active development. And let's not forget about Supergirl.

[Razgriz-Specter]

Pretty sure spoony is full of shit.

one was already in production but was cancelled for tax reasons.
cast, costume production and everything.

[G-Fex]

someone tell me again why they just didn't make DC movies in the 90's after Batman came out?

And no I don't mean Steel and shit.

Too much effort?

[RagnarokX]

Pretty sure spoony is full of shit.

Spoony often is, but I'll hazard to guess he is referring to the issue of DC farming its IPs to different productions and giving them exclusive rights to certain characters. This became an issue for Justice League when DC gave the rights to all Batman villains to that godawful The Batman cartoon. Justice League had to really cut down on the involvement of anyone but Batman from that IP. The Joker got like 2 episodes, and the rest of Batman's rogues gallery on the show was limited to Batman Beyond stuff cuz the DCAU created that IP.

If that's the case, of course Spoony is wrong because DC has full control of their IPs. They just make mindnumbingly stupid decisions with them.

[Razgriz-Specter]

someone tell me again why they just didn't make DC movies in the 90's after Batman came out? And no I don't mean Steel and shit. Too much effort?

Batman was doing great--->Batman wasn't doing great
Superman was dead
Wonder Woman was outdated
nobody else was A-list yet.

[eastmen]

someone tell me again why they just didn't make DC movies in the 90's after Batman came out? And no I don't mean Steel and shit. Too much effort?

To make superman fly it would have cost alot of money. Hell it will still cost alot of money.

Green lantern wouldn't have been possible either.

[Boombloxer]

You can do this for All the marvel characters also . Captian America - Super powered soldier Iron man - Billionaire THOR - GOD Hulk - GOD like being Black widow / Hawkeye - Perfect assasians . You can shine the light on the DCU characters in a diffrent way just like was done with the marvel characters Batman - Orphan who watched his parents die , devotes himself to making sure that never happens to anyone else - all the while he pushes those closest to him away. Clark Kent - An Alien who has hidden who he really is all his life and takes on the Superman persona to help the world while staying hidden as clark. The woman who he loves doesn't even know he exists because she only has eyes for his alter ego. Wonder Woman - A girl from an island who has had no interaction with men at all Barry Allen - A police scientest who's alter ego is at odds with his princepals. Wally West - A young man from a broken home trying to live up to an uncle's legacy that was asicly a father to him. Green Lantern - Kyle Rayner an irresponsable artist who find's his gf's body in his oven due to his new found power that spends his life trying to become responsible and become the hero she was helping him to become . Martian Manhunter - the last of his race who has lived amongst us for decades becoming many diffrent humans Aquaman - an infant banished from his home because of his race . Struggling to fit into both worlds. There are storys in the DCU that can be told. The characters are as fresh and Marvel's characters. They just need a good writer.

Except again, you are fighting against decades of perception, and that perception has only been enhanced by the recent films. The characters for Marvel have historically been grounded in reality, while DC portrays (or portrayed) them more as gods.

I don't know why this isn't clear to you. I'm not saying there aren't examples of great stories for each character that could be pulled to make a great movie, but the perception they have works against them most of the time when it comes time to relate and be interested. That's not just on the the writer, that's on the director, the lead actor, the whole nine.

The proof is in the pudding. Superman and GL both found this out the hard way, while Iron Man goes and starts a cinematic universe.

The worst part? They have in-house talent that has already done this with DCAU. And did it well. But it ain't easy, and the inherent nature of their universe makes it more difficult.

The hulk did 250m on a 137m budget , its was a flop. The incredible hulk did 263m on a 150m budget . It was a flop Daredevil did 176m on a 78m budget Ghost rider did 228 on a 110 Superman Returns did 391m on a 270m

Daredevil and Ghost Rider aren't flops--lesser known, B-list characters both crossed 100M over their production budget.
Hulk is a mixed bag, the second one is generally seen as the better movie, but the grosses were the same.

Superman is an A-list character that didn't break even in it's own market. This is a problem.

[Ezduo]

That's not the problem--the problem is that their Big 7 are harder to relate to them on a basic surface level than Marvel's characters. Batman - Billionaire Superman - God-like being Wonder Woman - God-like being Flash - SO FAST Green Lantern - Ring that makes anything from imagination, now God-like being. Before that, fighter pilot. Martian Manhunter - god-like alien Aquaman - King of the seas Easiest thing to imagine is if you can have a conversation or a beer with who you're watching. For a lot of people, that's why Marvel's characters click, and remember, decades of history to back the characters up.

Tony Stark is also a billionaire and Thor literally is a God. And are we forgetting that Batman has had at least four or so incredibly well liked, if not adored, movies from the past 20 years? Because Flash is fast he isn't relatable? This is utter nonsense. We've already had a Superman movie that's considered a classic. No one has even tried with half those other heroes. The problem with making a Justice League movie is that DC hasn't tried with half their heroes and the ones they have tried with have more often than not been total crap. Green Lantern didn't suck because Hal wasn't relatable and neither did Superman Returns. They sucked because they were terribly written. If they can just build a decent string of movies all of a similar style and theme (that is, you can believe that these characters could inhabit the same universe) there's absolutely no reason DC couldn't make a good Justice League movie. They already had a television series that did just fine and they've been making Justice League comics since the 60's.

[Dram]

one was already in production but was cancelled for tax reasons. cast, costume production and everything.

Yup, seemed like the writers strike helped kill it also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice...in_other_media

[Razgriz-Specter]

Tony Stark created an element himself for crying out loud.

[HK-47]

lol @ people thinking Nolan is done with WB/DC after TDKR. He's already producing the Batman reboot, along with Man of Steel next summer. WB is keeping his name on DC movies for a long time after the Green Lantern fiasco with Geoff Johns fucking things up.

What did geoff johns do?

[Tobor]

It has nothing to do with relatability. It's having someone who understands the IP in charge. Marvel Studios is running like a top because the guy in charge understands the medium and the characters.

Until WB gets a unified strategy, it will be Batman, Superman, and a sea of wasted potential.

[eastmen]

Except again, you are fighting against decades of perception, and that perception has only been enhanced by the recent films. The characters for Marvel have historically been grounded in reality, while DC portrays (or portrayed) them more as gods. I don't know why this isn't clear to you. I'm not saying there aren't examples of great stories for each character that could be pulled to make a great movie, but the perception they have works against them most of the time when it comes time to relate and be interested. That's not just on the the writer, that's on the director, the lead actor, the whole nine. The proof is in the pudding. Superman and GL both found this out the hard way, while Iron Man goes and starts a cinematic universe. The worst part? They have in-house talent that has already done this with DCAU. And did it well. But it ain't easy, and the inherent nature of their universe makes it more difficult.

No , not at all dude. None of Marvel heroes are grounded in reality.

I've never seen DC portray any of these characters as gods (except the god characters)


Superman has allways been more Clark Kent than Superman . I mean for god sakes just look at the Reeve's superman . Its extremely obvious that the story is about clark kent and superman is just someone he becomes to save the day and then he is back to his normal self.

[SoulPlaya]

People need to stop with this relate-able stuff. Just make a great action movie with some cool dialogue between the JL characters. Incorporate a great villain (there are plenty to choose from in DC), maybe one or two of them, and boom, there you go. I know it's easier said than done, but people just want to see a good blockbuster summer movie.

What Time Warner has to do, though, is follow in Disney's footsteps and try and make some great movies around these characters. Focus on making them good, at least. Treat them with some respect.

EDIT: BTW, for people talking about Superman. I used to think the same way, then I read All Star Superman. Read that. Superman can be very relatable and like-able.

[eastmen]

What did geoff johns do?

Aside from destorying the DCU comic line ? Well had a ton of the final say on Green lantern.

[crimsonspider89]

First, if they want to do a unified DC JL movie, do a little bit more sci fi Batman that fits in with the DC universe. I mean more comic like and not as much crime thriller. Can keep it dark but throw in more futuristic elements and you can do this by changing laws passed.

Do a prequel for Flash, WW, and Aquaman. Then have Martian Manhunter watch them through an alternate persona aka a PI. Then have him recruit all of them along with Kyle Rayner(fuck Hal, Kyle is more relatable). There JL movie ready to go.

[MC Safety]

thats the whole fucking point of a superhero, they're not supposed to be just like us. they're supposed to be what people look up to, role models, beacons of good and hope.

You can be all that and still have flaws.

It's just a different approach to heroism. And I prefer that Lee/Kirby humanism of the characters.

Jimmy Breslin once said the New York Mets were the baseball team for the guy who works long hours for short pay, for the cabbie who gets held up, and the woman who sees her husband and thinks how in the world did she ever marry him. In short, he said, the Mets are relatable and who the hell does well enough to root for the Yankees, Laurence Rockefeller?

That's the way I feel about Marvel characters as opposed to DC ones. And I know DC characters have been worked on to make them more rounded, but the Marvel heroes were always human first and heroes second.

[HK-47]

This is the wrong picture. To prove his point: Superman/Batman would probably work better as a standalone film. The best JLA run (Morrison) had them dealing with crazy shit that was really on their level. But the mortality of someone like Superman/Wonder Woman is harder to relate to than many of Marvel's big guns--Thor has family issues, Iron Man (alcoholic, destructive), etc. That's the challenge, remember, they're working against a widespread, decades long foundation for a general audience. DC's big seven are very different from the Avengers. Of course, now I want to see an Authority series.

The Authority would be boss.

[Guy Legend]

Easy way to fix Green Lantern franchise ->

Jon Stewart = Will Smith = easy money.

[HK-47]

Aside from destorying the DCU comic line ? Well had a ton of the final say on Green lantern.

I havent really been paying attention to the big two in comics. I thought Johns was considered hot shit after Blackest Night.