[Devolution]

I don't. But i also don't make assumptions about a person's character or person if they disagree with me or not. I think if anything a letter written to this guy would do much, much more than simply refusing to buy his game. Giving high-fives to each other on the internet certainly won't help either.

Is there something you want to tell the class because homophobia and his hateful rhetoric really isn't about "he has a differing opinion from me."

[Cyan]

Yeah it sucks. Ender's Game is still my favorite book though, despite the backwards beliefs of the writer.

About sums it up for me, too.

[AdrianWerner]

And why would you want to get married in a place that denounces your very being?

I think anyone who wants that is a troll. Civil marriages? No problem, state shouln't be ruled by religion. But the thought of forcing religious organiztions to conuct gay marriages is just plain wrong.

[Mumei]

I don't. But i also don't make assumptions about a person's character or person if they disagree with me or not. I think if anything a letter written to this guy would do much, much more than simply refusing to buy his game. Giving high-fives to each other on the internet certainly won't help either.

He has been like this for at least two decades.

And since the time he wrote gems like:

This applies also to the polity, the citizens at large. Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those whoflagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society. The goal of the polity is not to put homosexuals in jail. The goal is to discourage people from engaging in homosexual practices in the first place, and, when they nevertheless proceed in their homosexual behavior, to encourage them to do so discreetly, so as not to shake the confidence of the community in the polity's ability to provide rules for safe, stable, dependable marriage and family relationships. Those who would be members of a community must sacrifice the satisfaction of some of their individual desires in order to maintain the existence of that community. They must, in other words, obey the rules that define what that community is. Those who are not willing or able to obey the rules should honestly admit the fact and withdraw from membership.

He has actually become more unhinged than he was then. And yes, he has a different opinion than me. In this instance, his difference of opinion makes him a bigot. What's the problem?

[zoukka]

There are probably some gay Christians willing to present you with the arguments for why the Bible doesn't condemn them (I'm semi-aware of them but can't really present them... cogently), but I think it is important to realize that the right to marriage is the right to be married in the eyes of the state. The right of a church to refuse to marry someone under a particular religious ceremony, such as the Catholic sacrament of marriage, isn't what is under debate.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense thanks. Checked wiki and a big part of America doesn't allow registered gay unions at all... that fucking sucks.

[subversus]

Who?

I wish this was a bannable offence. There is no place for questions like that when there is fucking Google.

as for topic: does he really have these "gay friends"? or he just imagined them for this interview?

[HK-47]

I think anyone who wants that is a troll. Civil marriages? No problem, state shouln't be ruled by religion. But the thought of forcing religious organiztions to conuct gay marriages is just plain wrong.

I dont think this has ever been seriously put forward by gay marriage activists. It is social conservative paranoia and hatemongering.

[Dresden]

as for topic: does he really have these "gay friends"? or he just imagined them for this interview?

The good thing about black/gay/female/etc friends is that you never have to name them, they just exist as this nebulous entity you can refer to when needed.

[Mumei]

I dont think this has ever been seriously put forward by gay marriage activists. It is social conservative paranoia and hatemongering.

At best there's times when a gay couple wanted to use property owned by a church to conduct a wedding, which isn't the same situation as forcing the church to marry them.

[Canuck76]

Is there something you want to tell the class because homophobia and his hateful rhetoric really isn't about "he has a differing opinion from me."

At a base level dude disagrees with you. I don't see any homophobic language (doesn't sound like he fears or actively avoids homosexuals) or hateful rhetoric (he never wishes ill-will, never says people shouldn't or can't exist, he never talks about wanting them to not exist)

It's great that you feel emotional about this issue but he disagree's with you. You don't know the man himself.

[AdrianWerner]

At best there's times when a gay couple wanted to use property owned by a church to conduct a wedding, which isn't the same situation as forcing the church to marry them.

It's not much better though. Most religions consider churches to be house of God.

[Mumei]

It's not much better though. Most religions consider churches to be house of God.

No, not the church itself. More like a pavilion. You can read about it here.

[Devolution]

At a base level dude disagrees with you. I don't see any homophobic language (doesn't sound like he fears or actively avoids homosexuals) or hateful rhetoric (he never wishes ill-will, never says people shouldn't or can't exist, he never talks about wanting them to not exist) It's great that you feel emotional about this issue but he disagree's with you. You don't know the man himself.

Yeah he sounds like a fucking great fellow for sure. So which parts of his opinion do you feel are valid?

[sonikokaruto]

I'm sorry but really, I don't know what's the great deal of someoe not liking something.

If you dont like hot dogs, are you a weinerphobic?

It's just stupid.

Just because it's people he doesn't like doesn't mean he's bad or a nazi.

A lot of people hate Ron Paul. What are they?

A lot of people hate bush. What are they?

A lot of people hate Obama. What are they?

Just stop it.

[Mumei]

At a base level dude disagrees with you. I don't see any homophobic language (doesn't sound like he fears or actively avoids homosexuals) or hateful rhetoric (he never wishes ill-will, never says people shouldn't or can't exist, he never talks about wanting them to not exist) It's great that you feel emotional about this issue but he disagree's with you. You don't know the man himself.

Absolute nonsense.

He has explicitly advocated for keeping laws against homosexuality on the books in order to ensure an attitude of social opprobrium towards gay people. And we know what happens when that (an attitude of social opprobrium towards gay people is deliberately created, that is) occurs. He is so hysterical against the basic right of gays to marry someone they love that he advocated revolution if Proposition 8 were to fail to pass. He is a bigot.

Why do you defend him? It's utter tripe and you should know it.

[Margalis]

I don't see any homophobic language (doesn't sound like he fears or actively avoids homosexuals) or hateful rhetoric (he never wishes ill-will, never says people shouldn't or can't exist, he never talks about wanting them to not exist)

Never wishes ill will except wants them to be in jail.

Got it.

[HK-47]

The good thing about black/gay/female/etc friends is that you never have to name them, they just exist as this nebulous entity you can refer to when needed.

Like fairies or the printer than always goes on the fritz when you had that paper due.

[HK-47]

I'm sorry but really, I don't know what's the great deal of someoe not liking something. If you dont like hot dogs, are you a weinerphobic? It's just stupid. Just because it's people he doesn't like doesn't mean he's bad or a nazi. A lot of people hate Ron Paul. What are they? A lot of people hate bush. What are they? A lot of people hate Obama. What are they? Just stop it.

sonikokaruto
Posting on the wrong forum
(Today, 04:22 AM)

[AdrianWerner]

No, not the church itself. More like a pavilion. You can read about it here.

In this case yeah.. I see no problem. If it's not a place of worship and it's open to non-homosexual public then screw the religious organization :)

[Mumei]

In this case yeah.. I see no problem. If it's not a place of worship and it's open to non-homosexual public then screw the religious organization :)

Correct!

Though naturally some conservative religious organizations lied about the particulars of the case in order to give the impression that something more insidious was being demanded; I think that's where some of the confusion comes from.

[Femmeworth]

I'm sorry but really, I don't know what's the great deal of someoe not liking something. If you dont like hot dogs, are you a weinerphobic? It's just stupid. Just because it's people he doesn't like doesn't mean he's bad or a nazi. A lot of people hate Ron Paul. What are they? A lot of people hate bush. What are they? A lot of people hate Obama. What are they? Just stop it.

You're joking, right?

[WoodenLung]

I'm sorry but really, I don't know what's the great deal of someoe not liking something. If you dont like hot dogs, are you a weinerphobic? It's just stupid. Just because it's people he doesn't like doesn't mean he's bad or a nazi. A lot of people hate Ron Paul. What are they? A lot of people hate bush. What are they? A lot of people hate Obama. What are they? Just stop it.

There's a difference from disliking a person to disliking everyone based on their sexuality. I don't see anyone argue that Ron Paul/Bush/Obama shouldn't be allowed to get married. The guy is clearly a bigot and of course that will get people annoyed when he gets to spread his bullshit around like this. Not sure if your post was joking, if it was then I am sorry for it going over my head. :/

[Blondie]

OSC is a piece of shit and the ethical mindset behind Enders Game is seriously fucked up...

[Mr_Appleby]

Yeah it sucks. Ender's Game is still my favorite book though, despite the backwards beliefs of the writer.

I find it highly amusing how much of Enders game is naked boys wrestling.

[akira28]

I'm sorry but really, I don't know what's the great deal of someoe not liking something. If you dont like hot dogs, are you a weinerphobic? It's just stupid. Just because it's people he doesn't like doesn't mean he's bad or a nazi. A lot of people hate Ron Paul. What are they? A lot of people hate bush. What are they? A lot of people hate Obama. What are they? Just stop it.

...uhh...

all those hotdogs seeking equal rights and someone has the nerve to stand up and oppose them. And Ron Paul was one oppressed motherfucker. At least now he can walk home at night, not having to worry about thugs trying to beat him to death for, you know, being Ron Paul.

[Wubby]

Personally I think the states should just get out of the marriage business all together. Revert everyone's marriage to that of a union (and grant all unions the same rights as marriages) and problem solved (maybe, someone will find fault in my thinking I'm sure). If a man and woman want to be 'married' they can call themselves that, but legally it's just called a union. Same for a same-sex couple. But unions should only be between two people.

Edit: Forgot to mention the only OSC I've read was a book called Empire. It was horrible. Well I'm guessing the writer didn't intend for me to hate the main character and get happy when he's killed.

[AdrianWerner]

Correct! Though naturally some conservative religious organizations lied about the particulars of the case in order to give the impression that something more insidious was being demanded; I think that's where some of the confusion comes from.

Here in Poland some people are now trying to pass law that would allow religious people who work at pharmacies to refuse selling anticonception drugs..lol :D

[Gunloc]

Seriously? OSC might be a jerk, but claiming it's the worst book you've read just shows you don't read much

I wouldn't call myself a voracious reader, but I do read. I think assuming my opinion on the book is a clear indicator of my literary habits is a bit presumptuous.

But regardless of that, it still doesn't change the fact that I thoroughly disliked Ender's Game, and this was long before I knew of the author's bigotry.

[SerArthurDayne]

Worst book I have ever read is usually given and taken as an exaggerated statement to convey displeasure.

The worst book I can recall ever reading is probably the Da Vinci Code. I have probably forgotten worse books that I have read/tried and failed to read. Or maybe I have been lucky. I realize it is not the worst book written, but it was bad.

That doesn't mean there aren't thousands of people (or millions!) ready to tell me how great it is. Opinions and all.

[Messofanego]

right...because every single person who is against gay marriage is a closeted homosexual... Huh, guess you're right :jnc

What does ":jnc" even mean?! I googled it, came up with nothing.

[SerArthurDayne]

jakncoke. He liked smileys so much he went down with the ship

:jnc

In memoriam. Although he wasn't perma'd

[vcassano1]

Horrible man, but I will probably still give his books a go at some point if I can pick them up in a charity shop or boot fair.

[IrishNinja]

Your favorite rapper could be grand theft auto, but Orson Scott Card is a homophobe stop the presses everyone.

i pretty much only listen to real rappers who are grand theft auto

[jaxword]

lol at the outrage people have here. The author hates gays?!? Ender's Game now has zero literary value! Hypocritical really. Some of your favorite music artists are nothing more than two bit criminals who have actually committed terrible crimes against other people while Orson Scott Card is someone with an opinion. But that doesn't stop you from listening to their music. Your favorite rapper could be grand theft auto, but Orson Scott Card is a homophobe stop the presses everyone.

You can tell this poster has never actually created anything artistic in his life.

[Yagharek]

I know who OSC is, and I was made aware of his views before I had read any of his books. As a result, I'm extremely hesitant to give money to anyone I *know* is an arsehole.

No doubt people whose books I love have also done some less than acceptable things, based purely on probability. But that's too late not to read them.

I know that might mean I'm missing out on some classic sci-fi, but if pressed to choose between OSC and a book by an unknown author, I'll pick the unknown every single time.

[Mr. Sam]

I thought he was going to argue that nobody should get married, and that marriage should be abolished, which might make some sort of sense. Unfortunately, he soon took a left turn into Crazy Town by way of Bigot Road.

[PairOfFilthySocks]

It's about giving the left the power to force anti-religious values on our children. Once they legalize gay marriage, it will be the bludgeon they use to make sure that it becomes illegal to teach traditional values in the schools.

I'm guessing his 'traditional values' is Christianity? Looking back at where I went to school, if there's anything that annoys me more it's that religion was so ingrained in there. We even had a 'Religion' class. I'm not anti-religion, but I really think it should be kept out of schools.

[akira28]

Our religion class wasn't about learning how to worship in a religion, it was about how religions were created, the political conflicts and actual wars that came from them. It was a pretty informative series, and I'm glad I took it, otherwise I wouldn't know how cynical and practical most of the world religions are. I think they should teach it in every school as a subset of history.

I understand Christian schools teach it like Sunday school, while Catholic schools get down and dirty teaching about the seedy underbelly of religion. Like the morally corrupt popes of the middle ages, etc.

[06nbarnhill]

Guy is obviously an idiot. Still will love his Enders/Bean series for the rest of my life. Masterful shit.

As someone who grew up in a Mormon family with family members who were Bishops/BYU grads(both my parents) etc. Really OSC's opinions are nothing new to me so I am not really as offended as I probably should be.

[WoodenLung]

I dont think this has ever been seriously put forward by gay marriage activists. It is social conservative paranoia and hatemongering.

At the moment the solution here (Denmark) is that every priest can chose if he wants to or doesn't want to marry the gay couple, while it sucks that they can't just pick any priest... That seems fair enough as there's enough priests willing to do the job. There was a lot of debate recently though as a survey showed that 53% wanted to force priests to do it and only 24% said they should be allowed to decline gay marriages. Wouldn't be surprised if that happened not that long into the future, in the end the priests are hired by the state (at least here), so whatever they say the priests needs to follow or they can get kicked out.

[JoeTheBlow]

He's just some old guy who is scared shitless about the destruction of traditional American family values.
Most people here have grandparents or even parents who feel the same.
Why don't you call all them homophobic pieces of shit too, from your high horse, way up there.

[HK-47]

Our religion class wasn't about learning how to worship in a religion, it was about how religions were created, the political conflicts and actual wars that came from them. It was a pretty informative series, and I'm glad I took it, otherwise I wouldn't know how cynical and practical most of the world religions are. I think they should teach it in every school as a subset of history. I understand Christian schools teach it like Sunday school, while Catholic schools get down and dirty teaching about the seedy underbelly of religion. Like the morally corrupt popes of the middle ages, etc.

Comparative religion classes? In schools? Liberal agenda brainwashing my kids. Next youll make them take critical thinking courses in grade school.

[HK-47]

He's just some old guy who is scared shitless about the destruction of traditional American family values. Most people here have grandparents or even parents who feel the same. Why don't you call all them homophobic pieces of shit too, from your high horse, way up there.

Hmmm yes, I shall fire arrows at them from my ivory tower of common sense and reality.

[Binabik15]

I read Ender's Game last year when I did a "classics of sci-fi books" type of reading marathon over a couple of weeks. I liked it, even though I went in knowing about the author's hateful comments AND accusations of the book being filled with homoerotic content proving that he must be closeted, so I kept looking for that. I didn't see it.

The shower fight? Using that as an example for homosexual tendencies being displayed seems wrong to me. Why is it homoerotic, because they`re naked and touch each other's bodies? If that's the reason, that's just as juvenile and stupid as going "lol, wrestlers touch each others, teh gay!" "lol, you saw a naked guy in the locker room, teh gay!", "Hey, are you crying? Teh gay!", stuff that homophobes or trying-to-look-cool-by-being-casually-gay-bashing-or-sexist teens say. Actually, it's not just as juvenile and stupid, it's the same shit. People being naked isn't sexual in itself, men touching each other isn't, either and neither an implicit nor an explicit gay love scene has to be a result of the author's sexual preferences.

What else was there? The fella wagging his e-peen (literally)? It was presented more as a juvenile behaviour and some weird sort of attempt to display masculinity and thus rank by a boy not even out of puberty.

Nothing else stuck out to me.

And while it studies seem to agree that people displaying homophobic tendencies ALSO have a higher chance to react to homosexual content, I really hate that people are quick to assume someone is a closeted homosexual because of his views. It's reactionary and stupid, in my opinion. It undermines your own arguments with a petty tone (not that being gay is bad, but the hypocrisy displayed by a closeted bigot would be quite the character flaw and that`s what you`re attriubuting to them) and a willingness to bring unproven stuff up to smear someone instead of relying on the strenght of your arguments.

I always eye-roll when someone rebukes outrageous comments about gay marriage destroying the "sanctity of marriage", "spreading teh gay" or something with good, rational and convincing arguments and starting or finishing with a "secretly sucking dicks in a men's restroom" joke.

And I'm FOR equal treatment and full recognisation of homosexual couples under the law, for Odin's sake!

[Replicant]

lol, why is it that every gay-bashing closeted nut claims to have "Gay friends"?

How else are they going to justify their bigotry?

And like everyone else can't see their BS. If you are friends with someone who is gay, why would you want them to have a miserable life? Being friends mean actually caring about someone else's well-being and genuinely want to see them happy. Bashing your 'friend', talking badly about them behind their back, and making sure that they don't get equal rights that others receive is not an act of someone I'd call a friend.

[bro1]

It's been known for awhile that OSC has some very odd views. Even more surprising though is the islamaphobia coming out of Dan Simmons, writer of Hyperion. That guy was a genius and then post 9/11 went off the deep end.

[akira28]

Larry Niven :(

At least Asimov was a good guy.

Or later we'll find out that post 9/11 he decided to rewrite the 3 laws of robotics.

[HK-47]

Larry Niven :( At least Asimov was a good guy. Or later we'll find out that post 9/11 he decided to rewrite the 3 laws of robotics.

The Last Solution. Mutlivac vs the jihadists.

[Yagharek]

Larry Niven :( At least Asimov was a good guy. Or later we'll find out that post 9/11 he decided to rewrite the 3 laws of robotics.

Thats a fair talent for someone who died in 1992.

[Instigator]

I'm sorry but really, I don't know what's the great deal of someoe not liking something. If you dont like hot dogs, are you a weinerphobic? It's just stupid. Just because it's people he doesn't like doesn't mean he's bad or a nazi. A lot of people hate Ron Paul. What are they? A lot of people hate bush. What are they? A lot of people hate Obama. What are they? Just stop it.

sonikokaruto Banned

GAF has some interesting loopholes.

Some guy, outside the forum, supposedly famous (I've never heard of him), happens to have a politically incorrect opinion on some issue. A topic is made about it and he's quoted multiple times. Apparently, the opinion itself is ok because it's not censored and the discussion is allowed to continue.

Then some clueless GAFFER expresses something garbled but still closer to the controversial subject matter in the OP and bang he's gone. And yet if the same bloke were a little bit famous (and not a GAFFER), anyone could start discussions about him and quote anything from him. As long as whoever quotes him doesn't openly endorse it, they're in the clear. They could be Stormfront posters in disguise, looking for similar excuses to "quote" hate material, knowing that behind the mod-enforced groupthink, their message is still spreading.