[Computer]

I think a president who considers halal food to be a major concern harms the country more than people waving a flag.

I thought that was only a major concern for Marine Le Pen. Sarkozy did mention halal food near the end of his debate against Hollande, but it was very quick.

[G.O.O.]

I thought that was only a major concern for Marine Le Pen. Sarkozy did mention halal food near the end of his debate against Hollande, but it was very quick.

http://www.20minutes.fr/presidentiel...icolas-sarkozy

He probably realized he was making a mistake afterwards. Still a pretty big one.

Woah...I gotta say, I'd feel alienated if that happened in Germany. I'm fine with immigrants/people with immigrant roots decorating their stores in their national symbols, cheering their national Football team they feel more connected to than to our national team, have their own cultural celebrations/concerts...whatever I'm out of examples... But this is a solely national "activity" and it's not like they're waving combined flags or two flags at a time. There isn't even one Tricolour to be seen in the vicinity. Seems like a clear statement.. If I saw that in person I'd be inclined to tell them to immigrate back to the countries they're trying to "represent". But the sad part is that most of them are probably born in France too so there's not really a country to ask them to go back to. France seems like a truly a bad example for integration.

Filmed at the Bastille yesterday night : http://youtu.be/S21glYbXMLs

National anthem, French flags, enthusiasm.

I've read an article comparing integration in different European countries a while ago. Can't find it, but it said that France was actually great because you could be considered as French as anyone as long as you speak fluent French

[BaronLundi]

I hope you're not American.

Wait he couldn't b... oh but he is.

Haddock.gif

But this is a solely national "activity" and it's not like they're waving combined flags or two flags at a time. There isn't even one Tricolour to be seen in the vicinity. Seems like a clear statement..

Truth be told the *image on TV* didn't display a lot of French flags (the cameraman was behind 2 huge syrian flags) but if you look on youtube you'll see plenty. Same thing with the anthem sung by the crowd that you couldn't hear on TV making Hollande look like he was yelling the Marseillaise on his own on the stage.

It's not a big deal. But Hollande's staff should've secured a few hundreds flags to be given at strategic locations so that as not to give fuel to the usual racist fuckers.

France seems like a truly a bad example for integration.

Ugh... There is no perfect track record for integration in Europe but I would argue that France does a better job overall than most other european country, including the UK.

What does a good integration mean by the way ? Because I would rank waving French flags and singing the national anthem way below speaking the language, paying taxes and participating to the social and political life.

It's sadly ironic that amongst Sarkozy's staff crying wolf because of foreigners there is actually a lot of descendants of immigrants who came to France during the 20th century. Lots of Italian, Spanish, Polish, Portuguese, Armenian names and no one would question their citizenship today. It'd be nice if they could act the same way towards more recent immigrants (the biggest purveyor of which being Portugal by the way, despite all the attention being focused a bit more to the south).

[Computer]

http://www.20minutes.fr/presidentiel...icolas-sarkozy He probably realized he was making a mistake afterwards. Still a pretty big one. Filmed at the Bastille yesterday night : http://youtu.be/S21glYbXMLs National anthem, French flags, enthusiasm. I've read an article comparing integration in different European countries a while ago. Can't find it, but it said that France was actually great because you could be considered as French as anyone as long as you speak fluent French

Well, I don't think he himself gave a damn about halal food. As I've said before, he has no convictions of his own and little honor. He only tried to steal Le Pen's votes. He would probably not have done anything about it had he been re-elected (and the FN voters would have been stupid to believe his lies YET AGAIN) so don't be too harsh on him ;)

[G.O.O.]

I don't know about him. My main concern is towards those who trust him...

[Me_Marcadet]

I think a president who considers halal food to be a major concern harms the country more than people waving a flag. The latter shouldn't be a problem to anyone. "But it is", sure. Yet I think displaying pride for your origins should be allowed to anyone, and not be conditioned to what some people want others to think of these origins. That's not a problem that's going to solve itself by keeping low profile.

So if you can't solve something you need to make it worse ?

Displaying pride for your origins should be allowed but it doesn't make it any less stupid.

People don't need to rub their origins in the face of others to be proud of their origins.
By acting like that, you're only creating more frustration because it's natural to think that if you're origins are not as well displayed as some others (because you are in the minorities or don't have a big mouth) you are being screwed and you become jealous, envious and hatefull.

Why do you need to show your are proud of your origins ? Who fuckin cares if not the racists ?

I don't care about your ancestors (or mine). We need to aknowledge what they did but why we need to be proud ? If they've done bad things we need to keep a low profile ? Is there some origins or culture better than others ?

Like religion, being proud or not about your origins need be a very intimate thing you shall never display in public. It would not solve all the problems but the country would clearly be a better place.

[ElectricBlue187]

What does a good integration mean by the way ? Because I would rank waving French flags and singing the national anthem way below speaking the language, paying taxes and participating to the social and political life.

The last time I heard France in the news before this election was the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_ci...rest_in_France

But I guess 2005-07 was awhile ago now.

[G.O.O.]

So if you can't solve something you need to make it worse ?

No, but it's dumb to blame someone for something everyone should be allowed to do.

Displaying pride for your origins should be allowed but it doesn't make it any less stupid.

You can think what you want of it. That's your problem, not everyone else's.

People don't need to rub their origins in the face of others to be proud of their origins.

Maybe but that's none of your business.

Why do you need to show your are proud of your origins ? Who fuckin cares if not the racists ?

It's like asking a girl why she's wearing sexy/provocative clothing, because who cares but moralists and perverts ? The answer is : the girl does.

It's the same.

I don't care about your ancestors (or mine). We need to aknowledge what they did but why we need to be proud ? If they've done bad things we need to keep a low profile ? Is there some origins or culture better than others ?

We're not talking about nationalism here. You could aswell blame anyone for waving a French flag because of the colonization and Vichy.

Like religion, being proud or not about your origins need be a very intimate thing you shall never display in public. It would not solve all the problems but the country would clearly be a better place.

We'd have to ban the flag, the national anthem and the 14th of July for a country like that to exist.

[BaronLundi]

The last time I heard France in the news before this election was the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_ci...rest_in_France But I guess 2005-07 was awhile ago now.

It was a recent, important and sad event for sure. But in no way representative of the integration process (or failure thereof). And it was totally blown out of proportion by the foreign media. It got the same treatment as last year UK's riot when it was absolutely not comparable in scale and meaning.

So called true French people ("français de souche" meaning French citizen whose ascendants were all French) are somewhat of a mythological figure for the extreme-right. They're hardly a majority in the country.

[Me_Marcadet]

G.O.O.

You missed the point completely. I didn't say anything about banning anything. I just said that it's stupid because nobody wants to face the consequences.

Your analogy with clothing is totally wrong and not the same at all.
Being proud of your body or your achievements and showing it is fine. What is stupid is being proud of your ancestors and origins because it has nothing to do with you.

I don't want to ban anything, I just wnat people being less stupid because it would erase silly artificial antagonism who are hurting the country really bad now.

If there was a better climate and not any tension right now, I would have little problem with it but the situation is really tense and acting like that is just stupid. Don't believe I don't think people who started the controversery weren't stupid neither. I just said that was a natural reaction and both sides are equally stupid to act like that instead of doing all the effort they can to ease the situation but obviously it's not in their interests.

[G.O.O.]

You missed the point completely. I didn't say anything about banning anything. I just said that it's stupid because nobody wants to face the consequences.

And I'm saying these people are adults and free of their acts. And like in every spontaneous demonstration of joy, the first thing that comes to your mind is how to express it and not the consequences of it on public opinion.

Once again, the act we're talking about is waving a flag. Not violence, not hate speech.

What is stupid is being proud of your ancestors and origins because it has nothing to do with you.

Except maybe the culture you've grown with ? Kinda hard to cut it out of your personality.

Truth is, some people are making to much of a fuss around this, and here I'm thinking of Morano & the FN guys. The average racist would have had a rant while watching this on TV and forgotten a week later because there's worse to be mad at, like Euro crisis, violence in suburban areas and any other problem with easy-to-blame scapegoats.

Whether they were right or wrong to use these flags isn't relevant. It's the importance we're giving to it that is. And the more we do, the worse it gets.

[Krispy]

So uh... Hi guys.

[Computer]

Leaders seek to mend 'divided' France in WWII ceremony After a bitter campaign and a close presidential election, Nicolas Sarkozy and François Hollande have appeared together at at WWII commemoration in Paris. However, a highly polarized France many not be ready to reconcile as easily. By Joseph BAMAT French President Nicolas Sarkozy and president-elect François Hollande appeared side by side in Paris on Tuesday for the first time since the pre-election debate on May 2 to commemorate the end of the Second World War. After a bitter election that culminated with the victory of the Socialist Hollande over the conservative Sarkozy, many in France looked to the event as a first opportunity to mend a divided nation. Hollande, who will be sworn in as France’s new president on May 15, and Sarkozy laid a wreath together at the flame of the unknown soldier under the Arc de Triomphe on the Champs-Elysées avenue in central Paris. May 8 is a national holiday in France, with schools and banks closed for the day. The commemoration ceremony was broadcast live on French public television. "That we can celebrate May 8 -- the sitting president, Nicolas Sarkozy, alongside the president just voted in by the French people -- I think it's a beautiful image that reflects what I think should be my objective the day after election day: reconciliation,” Hollande said on Monday. The Elysée Presidential Palace had earlier announced that Hollande had accepted Sarkozy’s invitation to participate in the annual commemoration. Tuesday’s collegial atmosphere stood in stark contrast to the last meeting between the two men. In a May 2 televised debate at the height of the campaign, Sarkozy and Hollande shook accusatory fingers at each other, with Sarkozy calling the left-wing a liar and Hollande ripping apart the incumbent’s record in office. The bitter debate was on par with the overall mood of the campaigns, in which French voters became increasingly polarized towards the political extremes. May 1 saw thousands of people hit the streets of Paris for competing rallies between the left-leaning unions, Sarkozy supporters, and members of France’s far-right. The May 6 presidential election was the second closest in French history, with Hollande edging out Sarkozy 51.62% to 48.38%. Reconciliatory words Conscious of the growing divide, the candidates began offering reconciliatory remarks as soon as election results appeared on Sunday evening. In his first victory speech in the central town of Tulle, Hollande recognized that millions of people had not voted for him and said he would also work for them. “We are not a France divided, we are one single France, all united in the same destiny,” Hollande told his supporters. Fighting to speak over an indignant crowd at his campaign headquarters in Paris, Sarkozy urged supporters to respect Hollande as president, even while adding a few last jabs at critics. “Let’s not give a bad example. I have greatly suffered because of the disrespect that was shown to my office. We will never be like those who fought against us. We love our country,” Sarkozy said. Nevertheless, some were skeptical that the country was ready to let the healing begin. France’s political left was hoping to deal a double blow to Sarkozy’s right-wing UMP party by winning back a majority in parliament in legislative elections next month. In an opinion pieced titled “The party is over” in the right-leaning daily Le Figaro, editor Pierre Rousselin said Europe’s debt woes and Germany’s unbending stance on austerity measures would be a rude wake up call to Socialist candidates who think they can storm into parliament. The ruling UMP party has also laboured to show that it is still in fighting form despite Sarkozy's loss in the presidential poll. Its top brass gathered in Paris on Monday for an extraordinary meeting at the party’s headquarters. “We were punished because of the [financial] crisis and anti-sarkoism. It is very unjust. Hollande is legitimate, but he is not wanted,” shot Guillaume Peltier, a young UMP member and a MP candidate in the upcoming poll, after that meeting. On a day when France is set to reconcile, the looming parliamentary poll is a guarantee that politicians, as well as the French electorate, are headed towards a new fight.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120508-...ment-elections

[Phantast2k]

So uh... Hi guys.

Bonjour and such.

I see, seems like those were just a few isolated incidents.

It was a recent, important and sad event for sure. But in no way representative of the integration process (or failure thereof). And it was totally blown out of proportion by the foreign media. It got the same treatment as last year UK's riot when it was absolutely not comparable in scale and meaning. So called true French people ("français de souche" meaning French citizen whose ascendants were all French) are somewhat of a mythological figure for the extreme-right. They're hardly a majority in the country.

Yeah, I had those events in mind too when posting my reply.
I have no hard numbers, but from media exposure alone it does seem like the UK and France don't seem to bee doing greatly in regards to integration.
I'd like to see some studies on this (& have time to read them..)

[Computer]

Former Socialist PM Lionel Jospin (who abandoned politics after finishing third behind Jean-Marie Le Pen at the 2002 presidential election) announced that he was "not interested" in a seat at the Constitutional Council.

Edit: Former right-wing PM and foreign minister Alain Juppé said he would not run for the legislative election in June, contrary to what he had previously said.

Edit: Eric Zemmour gives his two cents on the flags controversy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=NaYJ14zdCSw

[G.O.O.]

I have no hard numbers, but from media exposure alone it does seem like the UK and France don't seem to bee doing greatly in regards to integration. I'd like to see some studies on this (& have time to read them..)

Found the paper I was talking about

http://blogs.the-american-interest.c...tities-part-i/

[El Sloth]

Well this will certainly spice up the EU debt discussion.

[Computer]

The election seen by Taiwanese television. This is AWESOME.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=F-Eem3KJc4Y#!

[Me_Marcadet]

And I'm saying these people are adults and free of their acts. And like in every spontaneous demonstration of joy, the first thing that comes to your mind is how to express it and not the consequences of it on public opinion. Once again, the act we're talking about is waving a flag. Not violence, not hate speech. Except maybe the culture you've grown with ? Kinda hard to cut it out of your personality. Truth is, some people are making to much of a fuss around this, and here I'm thinking of Morano & the FN guys. The average racist would have had a rant while watching this on TV and forgotten a week later because there's worse to be mad at, like Euro crisis, violence in suburban areas and any other problem with easy-to-blame scapegoats. Whether they were right or wrong to use these flags isn't relevant. It's the importance we're giving to it that is. And the more we do, the worse it gets.

You are pretty naive to think there isn't any hate speech behind those flags. Look at this video :
http://youtu.be/OO20bMixc3o

Waving a flag has more meaning than just being proud of a culture. You don't need to wave a flag to be proud of that, besides we are growing in a multicultural state and there is no flag for that.

[G.O.O.]

There is hate (I mentioned it earlier btw), but we're talking about flags and this hate is rooted is something else than just plain nationalism. There were a lot of French people here hating Sarkozy.

Can't watch the vid anyway, I'm at work. But I've heard a few ugly things.

You don't need to wave a flag to be proud of that, besides we are growing in a multicultural state and there is no flag for that.

Isn't France a mix between latin and germanic cultures ?

[Mael]

Isn't France a mix between latin and germanic cultures ?

Yeah it's way more complicated than that, at this point French culture is much more about more diverse than that.

And btw despite what everyone said about Sarkozy's tactics, it actually worked.
He did far better than polls would have had us believe (at least as reported by journalists).

In the end we elected another compulsive liar to replace another compulsive liar.
The flag BS controversy is far less funny IMO than the whole "let's pop champaigne bottles because we won" of the PS or the whole Hollande making his parti pay for a private plane the moment he won.
Guess in 2007 they found Sarkozy's Fouquet's to be small time which is why they couldn't STFU about it.

Lefigaro is going to be so very funny to watch....
200 policiers réaffectés à la sécurité de François Hollande

Protocole : casse-tête pour la première dame de France

Un élu conteste la "légitimité" d'Hollande

Merkel travaille sa contre-offensive face à Hollande

L'antisarkozysme a pesé lourd

And easter egg :
Eric Besson is no longer on Tweeter

[G.O.O.]

Yeah it's way more complicated than that, at this point French culture is much more about more diverse than that.

That was a short version.

And btw despite what everyone said about Sarkozy's tactics, it actually worked. He did far better than polls would have had us believe (at least as reported by journalists).

Both sides had larger amount of voters who chose to not have the other one according to last polls IIRC.

You said yourself that his far-right speech was just tactics and that you didn't believe he'd do anything about it.

Guess in 2007 they found Sarkozy's Fouquet's to be small time which is why they couldn't STFU about it.

The problem wasn't as much where he went than it was with who he went. It was the same for Bolloré's yacht. I'm not sure those who compare the fouquet's and the plane really understand the core of the problem.

[Mael]

That was a short version.

Well yeah but at this point might as well say that France is France and be done with it, it's not like there's anything to it (and btw it's only in France that in such occasion you'd see people going out with flags from another country and people be ok with it).

Both sides had larger amount of voters who chose to not have the other one according to last polls IIRC. You said yourself that his far-right speech was just tactics and that you didn't believe he'd do anything about it.

Yep and people still fell for it.
Doesn't contradict what I said, Buisson was actually right it seems.

The problem wasn't as much where he went than it was with who he went. It was the same for Bolloré's yacht. I'm not sure those who compare the fouquet's and the plane really understand the core of the problem.

Pfft like you really think that if Chirac used a plane to go from Correze to Paris on the night of his election in 1995 you wouldn't have seen the left be up in arms about it?
Let's be fair and call BS on the treatment of information, in both cases it was a crap subject to be in the news anyway.
That doesn't make the breaking of the 1rst promise by the new President any less funny.
and the problem with Boloré's yatch is more that it's the very first thing he fucking did while taking office, who the fuck cares were he goes for his holidays anyway, it didn't cost us a dime for once unlike Chirac's vacations all over the world.

e: and if you really think that the president doesn't have and shouldn't have close ties to the CEOs of the big French companies I've got a bridge for sale, 50% off thanks to Sarkozy's revocation.

e : and during the debate, the guy said he wouldn't be the president of the socialist parti and 'take some height' as we say here and not bother with partisan politics
Oh wait...
It's getting too easy at this point, the next 5 years will be very funny.

[G.O.O.]

Well yeah but at this point might as well say that France is France and be done with it, it's not like there's anything to it (and btw it's only in France that in such occasion you'd see people going out with flags from another country and people be ok with it).

Just saying that multiculturalism is part of our identity. Stop nitpicking.

Yep and people still fell for it. Doesn't contradict what I said, Buisson was actually right it seems.

I'm really not sure that trying to appeal to the FN's 18% was a better idea than trying to appeal to the entire left block. But hey, I'm not an expert.

I don't get how you can call it a good idea while he lost and his own party wants Buisson's head. What I'm saying is that he had this score by a vote of rejection. All he had to do is to seem better than Hollande, and he did everything so that it didn't happen.

Pfft like you really think that if Chirac used a plane to go from Correze to Paris on the night of his election in 1995 you wouldn't have seen the left be up in arms about it?

I dunno - yes ?

The press certainly wouldn't have been rambling about it for several years. Again - not expert.

[Kurtofan]

Was he supposed to take the night train?Let's be serious, he's the president and he needs to be protected.

[Mael]

Just saying that multiculturalism is part of our identity. Stop nitpicking.

Actually I disagree here too, in France there's 1 culture and it's French and its republican values, the rest can and will go to hell once school does it works.

I'm really not sure that trying to appeal to the FN's 18% was a better idea than trying to appeal to the entire left block. But hey, I'm not an expert.

It still minimized the defeat, if the score was something like 60/40, we'd be left with Sarkozy humiliated AND UMP being totally deligitimized. As it is, the score is honourable and the country is actually as divided as it ever was anyway despite the empty words of our new president.

I don't get how you can call it a good idea while he lost and his own party wants Buisson's head. What I'm saying is that he had this score by a vote of rejection. All he had to do is to seem better than Hollande, and he did everything so that it didn't happen.

The campaign was a plebiscite against him, I don't see how he could done any different considering that it's been nearly 10 years now that the left is doing a campaign against the guy and not against his ideas anyway.

I dunno - yes ? The press certainly wouldn't have been rambling about it for several years. Again - not expert.

Actually you're making a mistake here, it wasn't the media rambling about it.
It was people from the left that used the media as a platform to never let us forget about that little fact.
Seriously IRL I had the fucking place being mentionned twice :
- In Paris, because we were actually not far from the place
- When I went to the local PS federation and they couldn't fucking shut up about Sarkozy, that was in late 2010.

Was he supposed to take the night train?Let's be serious, he's the president and he needs to be protected.

He's the one who said he want to be close to the population and take the train.
Nobody forced him to say that, as it is I'm perfectly in my right in pointing out his crappy declarations and broken promises.
<e> : heck he did his campaign on how he had so much more integrity and all so he better fucking man up on that and act like he said he would instead of dicking around.
</e>
Believe me I do the same for everyone, if Sarkozy doesn't get out of the political field I'll fish out his claim that said that if he lost we'd never hear about him again.
The rest is more a collection of everything LeFigaro is throwing at Hollande in desperation, it's actually very funny to watch LeFigaro act like leMonde did in the last 5 years.

e2 : And btw since we have the official numbers might as well put them up instead of Tf1 estimations :
http://elections.interieur.gouv.fr/PR2012/FE.html
People voting : 46 066 499
People who stayed at home : 9 050 095 - 19,65%
Actual votes : 37 016 404 - 80,35%
Vote for neither candidates : 2 146 408 - 4,66% (of the voting population) - 5,80% (of the people who showed up)
Votes for actual candidates : 34 869 996 - 75,69%(of the voting population) - 94,20% (of the people who showed up)

Hollande 18 004 656 - 51,63%
Sarkozy 16 865 340 - 48,37%

[Computer]

The government announced that it would step down tomorrow.

Source: http://www.jeanmarcmorandini.com/art...er-demain.html

[Computer]

Hollande officially became president today, for five years.

[Kurtofan]

Vive le président!

[THE NO LIFE KING]

Good Luck French-GAF!

[Kurtofan]

The Prime Minister has been named!


Jean Marc Ayrault



Mayor of Nantes since 1989, president of the Socialist group in the National Assembly since 1997.

His government will be known tomorrow.

62, he is a German teacher and a close ally of Hollande.Like Hollande he never was in a government before.

[Computer]

Hollande is expected to meet Angela Merkel tonight. I wonder what's gonna happen for the European Union in the coming weeks.

[Kurtofan]

[Computer]

OH WOW

France's Hollande's plane struck by lightning en route to Germany Francois Hollande's trip to Germany for crucial talks with Angela Merkel got off to the worst possible start after his plane was forced to return to Paris after it was struck by lightning. By Henry Samuel Presidential sources said that Mr Hollande, who was sworn in as President of France earlier today, had already taken off from the capital in a second plane. He is expected to be delayed by about 90 minutes for the meeting. "The plane could have been hit by lightning. It turned back for safety reasons. Right now, the president has left again," a ministry spokesman said. Mr Hollande, a Socialist, is naturally at odds with Chancellor Merkel's Europe-wide austerity measures. His trip is seen as an attempt to smooth over differences between the two key economies in the eurozone. Earlier, he sent an instant message to Mrs Merkel, saying he wanted to "open a new path" in Europe, including a "new" EU pact. Mr Hollande, 57, the first socialist leader of France since Francois Mitterrand left office in 1995, officially took over from Nicolas Sarkozy in a relatively low-key inaugural ceremony at the Elysée Palace this morning. Strengthened by the symbolism of the occasion, Mr Hollande wasted no time issuing a strong message to the German Chancellor, who he will meet later today for talks in Berlin. “Today many peoples, starting with those in Europe, are awaiting and watching us. To overcome the crisis hitting it, Europe needs projects, it needs solidarity, it needs growth,” he said. “To our partners I will propose a new pact that will combine the necessary reduction of public debt with indispensible stimulation of the economy,” said Mr Hollande. Mr Hollande has championed the idea of renegotiating the fiscal pact that enshrines budgetary discipline in the eurozone to include a growth chapter. Mrs Merkel is categorical that the pact, signed by 25 of the 27 EU countries and already ratified in some, must stay as it is. Mr Hollande was at pains not to downplay the constraints his country faces, "I take stock today of the force of the pressures our country is under: massive debt, feeble growth, high unemployment, damaged competitiveness, a Europe that is struggling to get out of the crisis," Hollande told a select group of dignitaries at the Elysee Palace. "Nothing is inevitable as long as we are driven by a common will, as long as a clear course has been set, and we apply all our strength and the assets of France." "Such is the mandate I have received from the French people on May 6. Put France back on its feet with justice, open a new path in Europe, contribute to world peace and to the preservation of the planet," he said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...o-Germany.html

[travisbickle]

God doesn't like socialists.

[gofreak]

Merkel's weather machine. A friendly warning.

[ReBurn]

It's almost like a science experiment.

[Computer]

It's almost like a science experiment.